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Thread: Investment Talk

  1. #51
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    Heh heh,XiaoWang, i knew you would come in if I ramble long enough.

    * hi Five*

    Hows is this years P/L at work for you? steady?

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    stew pig forum no delete

     

     
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    Originally posted by E.V.ilyn@Nov 27 2006, 11:04 PM
    Hi,

    Care to elaborate the differences between bonds, treasury notes, and securities? They sure sound like the same thing to me...
    try investopedia.com

    or for a local site www.moneysense.gov.sg (publications)
    i love dividends.

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    Originally posted by E.V.ilyn@Nov 27 2006, 11:04 PM
    Hi,

    Care to elaborate the differences between bonds, treasury notes, and securities? They sure sound like the same thing to me...
    by definition securities proves ownership of stocks, bonds or other investments. and bonds are contracts over a year issued by companies/govt. and treasury notes are contracts issued by the govt.



    but



    when we speak of securities, bonds, treasury notes. i believe they are talking abt
    1. securites --- stocks++
    2. bonds --- those issued by companies
    3. treasury notes --- those by govt



    pls correct me.
    i love dividends.

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    Originally posted by Throttle@Nov 27 2006, 04:40 PM
    How about we all pool money and whack the market swee swee one time. Each person $5k 10 people $50k. Then we can hold big position of at least USD3mil one time. ???????

    All in, show hand !
    this is interesting.. reminds me of some pple i noe who pool $50 each to buy thousands worth of bigsweep ticks.... hah.


    juz curious, where will u be foraging into?
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    i was introduced to options trading last year. but haven had to chance to understd fully it works.

    anione care to explain? perhaps as compared to stocks...
    from my limited knowledge, it works in bips... n apparently, it cannot be as easily manupulated as stocks(as i was told).
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    why dont u share what u already and let throttle/xiaowang add on to it.
    i love dividends.

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    Originally posted by fooz@Nov 28 2006, 01:43 AM
    i was introduced to options trading last year. but haven had to chance to understd fully it works.

    anione care to explain? perhaps as compared to stocks...
    from my limited knowledge, it works in bips... n apparently, it cannot be as easily manupulated as stocks(as i was told).
    I do a lot of FX options, vanilla and exotics.

    Options are a form of derivative instruments. It "derives" it's value from the underlying, be it a stock, a property, an FX position, a bond etc...........

    The most liquid mkt for options is the FX market.
    In fact the FX market is the most liquid of all financial instruments.
    That's one main reason why I choose it.

    The mechanics of a stock option is very simple (For FX option a little more complicated becos you need to know the currency pair)
    I will attempt t explain as simply as I can

    Eg. ABC stock is currently $20 per shr. You feel that it is too expensive to buy it at $20. However, you are willing to buy it at $18.
    Strategy 1 : Wait for price to drop
    Strategy 2 : Sell a put option on ABC Stock at $18 for say...3 months (for selling you collect a premium)
    Strategy 3: Buy a call option on ABC stock at $18 for say...3 months (for buying you pay a premium/cost)


    so what happens? (I'm breaking up into two post becos it makes reading easier)

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    At the End of 3 months:-

    Strategy 1: if the price drops to $18, you can choose to buy or not, if it shoots up to $20++ you bang balls becos it you would have missed the chance.


    Strategy 2: if the price shoots up to $20++, it's ok becos you pocketed some premium money by selling the put option. If it drops below $18, you'll will be obliged to still buy it at $18.


    Strategy 3: If the price shoots up to $20++, you hold the option to buy it at $18. If the price drops below $18, you hold the option to buy it at $18, you are not obliged to exercise the option. In other words, your maximum loss is the premium that you paid upfront.

    Strtegy 3 may seem like the best, but do note that to buy options, premiums are not cheap so the market must move enough in your favor to allow you to cover the cost of your premium


    I hope this is fairly clear. If not, sorry........

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    a word of caution on trading options.....as i have heard from many people who attended some seminar and think the option trading is almost riskless and can make an easy fortune (just like that)

    Please dont be greedy and foolhardy....

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    Thanks Throttle for the info... sure will chat more with you when we meet, maybe later this month....currently really bust daily so can't go for the cigar meet-ups....

     

     
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    Originally posted by fooz@Nov 28 2006, 01:43 AM
    i was introduced to options trading last year. but haven had to chance to understd fully it works.

    anione care to explain? perhaps as compared to stocks...
    from my limited knowledge, it works in bips... n apparently, it cannot be as easily manupulated as stocks(as i was told).
    if you intend to trade in options, please do yourself a big favour and make sure you fully understand what they are, how they work and that the real nominal exposure of the position is much larger than the price of the option.

    that means you can make big and lose big, much bigger than you might have thought. do not brush this off. go ahead only after you have understood and know what you're doing. limited knowledge is not good enough.

    because i'm conservative, when i trade options, i make sure that i only put down 2% of the total value of the nominal position so that i don't open my value at risk by an amount that i cannot manage.

    before you sign up for options trading with a US broker, they must give you a risk disclosure and should do an analysis of your income and assets.

    He who hesitates is lost!

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    Was just reminded that NSS will "mature" Mar 2007.

  14. #64
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    whats NSS?

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    Originally posted by Throttle@Dec 3 2006, 10:43 PM
    whats NSS?
    New Singapore Shares. Given by Big Brother back in 2001.

    http://www.nss.gov.sg/

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    I see, i see. Give so little, makes no diff . ERP, GST, Tobacco tax, Road tax, etc.. would have more than wiped out everything and a whole lot more, hahaahahah

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    Originally posted by Throttle@Dec 3 2006, 10:59 PM
    I see, i see.* Give so little, makes no diff .* ERP, GST, Tobacco tax, Road tax, etc..* would have more than wiped out everything and a whole lot more, hahaahahah
    Well true, but look upon it as a mini windfall. Big brother is not obliged to hand it out just that sometimes big brother want to "be closer" (etc.) to the people... Regardless, this is sort of unexpected income so ...

    That 1k+ (assuming that none was taken out previously) can be used for say a slip on after market exhaust for your bike, 1 year's insurance for your bike/car, road tax for the year, 1 year worth of HDB car parking (>5 for bikes), a new paintjob you've been contemplating, couple months of utilities, etc.

    Now that I'm reminded of this NSS thingy, I think in 2008 the ERS allotments would have matured as well.

    Edit: Hey Throttle, you can try to gather like 30 persons and then use their NSS allotments to forward your proposal.

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    hehh he, very frankly, i wont be bothered to gather 30 people for $1000 each.

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    ooh yes, Big Brother IS obliged to give the handouts.
    BEcos if they dont, they wont have an excuse to raise other taxes.....heh he

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    Originally posted by contrarian@Dec 3 2006, 03:49 PM
    if you intend to trade in options, please do yourself a big favour and make sure you fully understand what they are, how they work and that the real nominal exposure of the position is much larger than the price of the option.

    that means you can make big and lose big, much bigger than you might have thought. do not brush this off. go ahead only after you have understood and know what you're doing. limited knowledge is not good enough.

    because i'm conservative, when i trade options, i make sure that i only put down 2% of the total value of the nominal position so that i don't open my value at risk by an amount that i cannot manage.

    before you sign up for options trading with a US broker, they must give you a risk disclosure and should do an analysis of your income and assets.

    i like ur nick .. hah.. how apt for this thread...


    contrarian> thks 4 ur advice.. i tink this pc of advice not onli applies to options, but for all types of financial investment.... its alwiz gd to do homework 1st...

    throttle> thks for info...
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    Originally posted by Throttle@Dec 3 2006, 11:29 PM
    ooh yes, Big Brother IS obliged to give the handouts.
    BEcos if they dont, they wont have an excuse to raise other taxes.....heh he
    err... big brother actually can do without excuse for raising taxes. afterall, big brother is not exactly known for bring democratic. so far so long as big brother happy, big brother will implement. iron-handed approach as wiki put it. however, big brother is an aspiring actor. always like to put up a wayang show. i got listen to your views. but that does not mean i'll heed them.

     

     
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    Originally posted by contrarian@Dec 3 2006, 03:49 PM

    because i'm conservative, when i trade options, i make sure that i only put down 2% of the total value of the nominal position so that i don't open my value at risk by an amount that i cannot manage.

    Your statement quite contradictory and incomplete, contrarian.
    You say you are conservative, yet you only put 2% of total value of nominal.

    if $10,000 = 2%, then your nominal underlying is $500,000, that doesnt sound conservative in any language.

    What is your usual nominal amount?

    Care to elaborate?

    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    For the benefit of others, Contrarian is talking more about margin equity option trading. I'm more into FX option trading. Concept is the same but complexity and variety is different

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    My mum just showed me a "lobang". Apparently someone just introduced her to this thingy called SwissCash and she bought it!!! Wanted to get me to buy. Then when I showed disinterest she wanted to buy using my IC... #%@^#&

    I later ran a quick check but found it rather dubious. MLM style. No information on how the money is spent, etc. Their FAQ says that since you are getting fixed payout every month, you do not need to know how they use your money for investment...

    Imagine they are promising 300% returns over 18 months! Guaranteed! If this is true (which is too good to be true and in my dictionary, means most likely untrue) then I might as well save 2 years worth of salary, dump 1 year's into the SwissCash, then live on the remaining year for 18 months, then when 18 months is up, I'll have 300% back in return! This means I'm I do not need to work at all!!! All I ever need to do is to rechannel the returns into the investment.

    Just hope she don't buy anymore into it... I'm doubtful if she can even get any amount back...

  24. #74
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    My ex-colleagues just approached me at the Big Boys Toys expo to consider buying th Oilpods thing.... Throttle you have good knowledge?

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    sorry paithorn never heard of oilpods.

    In terms of "lobang" , I think i'll start ThrottleMoneyBigBigFund.
    You can join by giving me $10,000
    In 12 months you'll get back $20,000
    Every month I'll paid you $100 more than previous month Starting $500 on first month and last month i return one lump sum. Wanna join or not?

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    Really?.
    To ride on the road, You need skills,Stamina, or even luck.

    But to be a good rider, you have to change with your environment,and adjust yourself to its rhythm.

    Cultivate the confidence to face the different situations. Don't let yourself to be subdued by the environment

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    wanna try?

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    you are so confident of doubling your investments in 12 months?
    I am interested mate.....

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    Hehe heh, dont mean to take you for a ride but actually I was just trying to show you guys the simplest form of getting people interested.
    ===> Inflating success.

    Paithorn, let's meet on WEd for a cigar (see cigar thread)
    I'll let you know more of what i do for my personal trading.

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    Bro, dun think I can go on Wed( I will try to ).... will be working late these 3 weeks.... today will probably work till 10 pm...

    I am interetsed to find out what you have.....

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    I have no big deal. just share experiences thats all.

     

     
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    Originally posted by Throttle@Dec 4 2006, 12:06 AM
    Your statement quite contradictory and incomplete, contrarian.
    You say you are conservative, yet you only put 2% of total value of nominal.

    if $10,000 = 2%, then your nominal underlying is $500,000, that doesnt sound conservative in any language.

    What is your usual nominal amount?

    Care to elaborate?

    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    For the benefit of others, Contrarian is talking more about margin equity option trading. I'm more into FX option trading. Concept is the same but complexity and variety is different
    Sorry to disappoint you, Throttle, but I don't open positions in the hundreds of thousands (not for my own account). The nominal amount is something I can easily live with, because I have no wish to throw even $100,000 nominal into any one position (for any instrument).

    I'm not into speculation, only investment. I still own stocks I bought as far back as 1999. The little options exposure I take is to supplement my stock positions only occasionally, and especially in times of high volatility. I don't use the leverage in the option to open positions beyond my capital at all.

    You can see that I am conservative - because I learnt investments in the bear market during the Asian financial crisis, its recovery into the dot com bull market, and the subsequent dot com crash. During that time, I have taken a position in Cyberworks that went up 300+% in 6 weeks as well as lost 100% of another when Global Crossing company went insolvent.

    Since you're into FX options, I understand that nominal positions have to be bigger than equities because the basis points movements are usually smaller intraday. I realised that I was extremely lucky in Mar 2001 and Sep 2001 to hit AUD at its lowest twice in the AUD's trading history - but that was luck and I've retired from FX since. FX is not my thing - I have no inclination to continually monitor an active position and can't take the big figures running with large open positions.
    He who hesitates is lost!

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    Originally posted by Throttle@Dec 5 2006, 02:30 PM
    I have no big deal. just share experiences thats all.
    I am interested in that... will catch you the next meet up....

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    Originally posted by contrarian@Dec 5 2006, 07:10 PM
    Sorry to disappoint you, Throttle, but I don't open positions in the hundreds of thousands (not for my own account). The nominal amount is something I can easily live with, because I have no wish to throw even $100,000 nominal into any one position (for any instrument).

    I'm not into speculation, only investment. I still own stocks I bought as far back as 1999. The little options exposure I take is to supplement my stock positions only occasionally, and especially in times of high volatility. I don't use the leverage in the option to open positions beyond my capital at all.

    You can see that I am conservative - because I learnt investments in the bear market during the Asian financial crisis, its recovery into the dot com bull market, and the subsequent dot com crash. During that time, I have taken a position in Cyberworks that went up 300+% in 6 weeks as well as lost 100% of another when Global Crossing company went insolvent.

    Since you're into FX options, I understand that nominal positions have to be bigger than equities because the basis points movements are usually smaller intraday. I realised that I was extremely lucky in Mar 2001 and Sep 2001 to hit AUD at its lowest twice in the AUD's trading history - but that was luck and I've retired from FX since. FX is not my thing - I have no inclination to continually monitor an active position and can't take the big figures running with large open positions.
    I see. That's why I ask you to elaborate.
    Hope your investments flourish in time to come.

    As for me, I use funds which i can afford to lose in those FX trade.
    I also keep a chunk in blue chip equities and another chunk in properties.

    I personally believe that if you have a significant posrtfolio, it should be split up into a variety of asset classes. Of these classes, a fair percentage is totally liquid and to be used for opportunistic trades.

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    Seems like everybody is only talking about lump sum investments. What about those regular investment plans?? i.e. fork out $300 everymonth into some sort of fund for investment? any opinions?

    Also, I was advised that at any one time, any individual (ideally) should have at least 6months CASH stashed away in an account somewhere as an emergency fund (unexpected health, legal etc issues)... That seems like a lot of $$ sitting somewhere and not doing anything, but it also seems like prudent advise as well, isn't it?
    BlackDawn aka kiamh
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    Originally posted by kiamh@Dec 16 2006, 07:10 AM
    Seems like everybody is only talking about lump sum investments. What about those regular investment plans?? i.e. fork out $300 everymonth into some sort of fund for investment? any opinions?

    Also, I was advised that at any one time, any individual (ideally) should have at least 6months CASH stashed away in an account somewhere as an emergency fund (unexpected health, legal etc issues)... That seems like a lot of $$ sitting somewhere and not doing anything, but it also seems like prudent advise as well, isn't it?
    Definitely, one should always set aside his emergency fund, say 6 months worth of expenditures in cash or cash equivalents. This should be done before you try to invest the rest.

    A regular savings plan is a good concept because it smoothens your investment and takes away the temptation of many to chase the flavour of the month.

    However if you're into ILPs or unit trusts, you should always watch your expense ratios for these. Make sure that whatever gains you have are not being substantially taken up by fees. Imagine if you have to pay a 5% distribution cost and a 1.5% annual management fee - if you show me those figures, I'd rather not buy it.
    He who hesitates is lost!

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    Originally posted by kiamh@Dec 16 2006, 07:10 AM
    Seems like everybody is only talking about lump sum investments. What about those regular investment plans?? i.e. fork out $300 everymonth into some sort of fund for investment? any opinions?
    i do not find regular investments plans attractive. hence, DIY.

    but if u have no idea where to start, why not.
    i love dividends.

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    Originally posted by contrarian@Dec 16 2006, 08:42 AM


    However if you're into ILPs or unit trusts, you should always watch your expense ratios for these. Make sure that whatever gains you have are not being substantially taken up by fees. Imagine if you have to pay a 5% distribution cost and a 1.5% annual management fee - if you show me those figures, I'd rather not buy it.
    Absolutely


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    Hi all

    can I ask what is your views towards this new single premium ILP by OCBC?
    thanks!
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    I personally dont care for such things.

    To me, health insurance is an expense which i will accept.
    For me, my investments need to be flexible and liquid to position itself to take opportunities.

    Life insurance is the last thing on my list.
    This "investment" is not favorable to me becos it is not liquid enough and it has too much layered fees.

    For somebody else, it may be the perfect thing.

    At the end of the day, any advice or view is only relevant if the person advising understands your position and views.

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    Anyone knows more about buying treasury bills .... is it really a good idea rather than fixed d?
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    this has been discussed before, plse check back on the thread.

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    Hi, I'm Edwin, just recently joining the member.

    I'm doing an investment in Property. Our company objective is helps private investors to grow their money through overseas market, where we are focusing to UK and Australia Market.

    If anyone interested or would like to explore more, do give me a call: 923 222 05 to fixed an appointment in our office in Park Mall.

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    Anyone heard of such investment which u invest 3k. every mth get back $300 . for 12mths. u get back 3.6k. so u earn $600. that's confirm . and if the project is successful . u get 30k. my bro have been bugging my parents to invest. is it too gd to be true?
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    But to be a good rider, you have to change with your environment,and adjust yourself to its rhythm.

    Cultivate the confidence to face the different situations. Don't let yourself to be subdued by the environment

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    Originally posted by Sky99@January 07, 2007 10:40 am
    Anyone heard of such investment which u invest 3k. every mth get back $300 . for 12mths. u get back 3.6k. so u earn $600. that's confirm . and if the project is successful . u get 30k. my bro have been bugging my parents to invest. is it too gd to be true?
    you need to ask the basic question: what happens if the project fails?

    imagine if i offered you the deal you listed.
    a classic case would be if i then take your $3000, return you $300 for the first month and then stop paying you.
    then what happens?
    if you have the answer to this question, then perhaps you have enough info to consider.

    "if a deal sounds too good to be true, it probably is."
    He who hesitates is lost!

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    yeah. if its failed. u get back $300 per mth for 1 year. but if it passed. u get back 30k. REALLY UNPREDICTABLE!
    To ride on the road, You need skills,Stamina, or even luck.

    But to be a good rider, you have to change with your environment,and adjust yourself to its rhythm.

    Cultivate the confidence to face the different situations. Don't let yourself to be subdued by the environment

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    Guys, if something is too good to be true, it probably is.
    Check this thread out. I am creating a club of bikers for bikers. This is for intercultural intergration. Come on in, fellow bikers.
    http://www.singaporebikes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90550

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    Originally posted by Sky99@January 07, 2007 11:04 pm
    yeah. if its failed. u get back $300 per mth for 1 year. but if it passed. u get back 30k. REALLY UNPREDICTABLE!
    what are you going to do if the guy takes your $3000, returns you $300 for the first month and then stops paying you? would you even have an IOU?
    He who hesitates is lost!

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    yeah. my dad asked my bro this question too. then my bro get the receipt and u will have a account in the company website. and u are officaly a member.
    To ride on the road, You need skills,Stamina, or even luck.

    But to be a good rider, you have to change with your environment,and adjust yourself to its rhythm.

    Cultivate the confidence to face the different situations. Don't let yourself to be subdued by the environment

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    Sky, in that case, can I borrow money from the company to invest in it?
    since they are 100% sure of their own product.

    They can charge me 10%pa no problem, i would like to borrow not much, just $3mil. Then I use the money that they lend to me to put with them, can?

    Since they guarantee the returns themselves then they should give their own product 100% collateral value.

    So I borrow from them at exhorbitant tates of 10% per year.
    I will pay them $300k in interest. No problem.

    But since the minimum return is 20% as you said, then at the end of 1 year, they have to pay me $600k min.

    Of which, they can keep half as my interest payment to them.

    If they dont pay me I dont pay them.
    Ok? I'm fine with that. where can I sign?

    HAHAHAHAH

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