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Thread: CHEC-City Harvest Education Center

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    Darkness19
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    anyone from CHEC- city harvest education center?
    Four Wheels Move The Body,Two Wheels Move The Soul

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    bladeboy
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    oh holy
    Do and die, don't ask why , and u will SURVIVE!

     

     
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    Darkness19
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    Originally posted by Lameboy83@April 29, 2007 07:24 pm
    oh holy
    lol,u dun need to be christian to study in the sch,city harvest church is one of the main sponsor,so the sch used the name
    Four Wheels Move The Body,Two Wheels Move The Soul

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    Darkness19
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    has anyone study in tis sch before???
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    went there to sit for their mock exam papers counted or not ?

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    lols... never get a chance to go in and study... but before the education center opened... got tuition before lars... but i super sleepy head...
    We're all trapped in a maze of relationships. Life goes on with or without you.
    I swim in the sea of the unconscious. I search for your heart, pursuing my true self.

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    Darkness19
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    lol,all tis counted ar,at least u gt study in the sch before
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    what is that place all about ?

    i am a just a cute fox with nine tails

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    private sch lor.

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    Darkness19
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    yup it is a private sch
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    ic ic thanks for telling me cheers

    i am a just a cute fox with nine tails

     

     
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    SPchoo
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    omg christianity. this is a school i would stay away from. imagine i do something bad then god punish me by giving me bad grades in exams.

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    lols, also must stay out of IJ schools and convent schools right?? Weird weird sia....
    We're all trapped in a maze of relationships. Life goes on with or without you.
    I swim in the sea of the unconscious. I search for your heart, pursuing my true self.

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    SPchoo
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    Originally posted by Akarui Siren@May 11, 2007 04:56 pm
    lols, also must stay out of IJ schools and convent schools right?? Weird weird sia....
    as city harvest church will tell you, give more money to god and he will give u good grades.

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    Originally posted by SPchoo@May 11, 2007 06:34 pm
    as city harvest church will tell you, give more money to god and he will give u good grades.
    if bushuang, reluctant to give, you can choose not to give lor. Sounds as if like kenna forced litat. When you know nothing, dun create your own and assume. It'll makes you looked silly.
    We're all trapped in a maze of relationships. Life goes on with or without you.
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    Originally posted by Akarui Siren@May 12, 2007 11:00 am
    if bushuang, reluctant to give, you can choose not to give lor. Sounds as if like kenna forced litat. When you know nothing, dun create your own and assume. It'll makes you looked silly.
    cool down bro,anyway although my sch is under city harvest,but the teachers in the sch will never tok to their students any stuff tat is link to christianity,cause it is a sch and nt a church
    Four Wheels Move The Body,Two Wheels Move The Soul

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    SPchoo
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    Originally posted by Akarui Siren@May 12, 2007 11:00 am
    if bushuang, reluctant to give, you can choose not to give lor. Sounds as if like kenna forced litat. When you know nothing, dun create your own and assume. It'll makes you looked silly.
    tio si bushuang. how ? tell your god come down and strike me lah ! or maybe i go city harvest u tell the members who are actually gangsters or the guys who go there just to see girls to come "make me look silly" ok ? LOLOLOLOL.
    or tell that pastor of yours with that flashy wife to pay me a visit? they are celebrities man! I wanna ask them how they got a ISO for a CHURCH!

    u mean nothing to me. look silly indeed.

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    Originally posted by SPchoo@May 13, 2007 06:22 pm
    tio si bushuang. how ? tell your god come down and strike me lah ! or maybe i go city harvest u tell the members who are actually gangsters or the guys who go there just to see girls to come "make me look silly" ok ? LOLOLOLOL.

    u mean nothing to me. look silly indeed.

    I am not bound to please thee with my answers. - william shakespeare

    no offence to you happiness_1911
    dun worry no offence to me,just relax bro,dun need to get angry
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    wah .. didnt know ch now into setting up schools liao ... seng li zo ani jing dua liao ..
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    SPchoo
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    Originally posted by gorgonitz82@May 13, 2007 07:23 pm
    wah .. didnt know ch now into setting up schools liao ... seng li zo ani jing dua liao ..
    yah lor seng li dua ka LKY bo fight liao lo.

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    Darkness19
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    Originally posted by gorgonitz82@May 13, 2007 07:23 pm
    wah .. didnt know ch now into setting up schools liao ... seng li zo ani jing dua liao ..
    lol
    Four Wheels Move The Body,Two Wheels Move The Soul

     

     
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    hahas, cant be bothered from someone's attitude problem lor~ Keep that biasness to yourself better.
    We're all trapped in a maze of relationships. Life goes on with or without you.
    I swim in the sea of the unconscious. I search for your heart, pursuing my true self.

  23. #23
    SPchoo
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    Originally posted by Akarui Siren@May 14, 2007 01:20 am
    hahas, cant be bothered from someone's attitude problem lor~ Keep that biasness to yourself better.
    as expected of wannabe christians. all talk no action.

    pls allow me to clarify. i am not against christianity in any way. i just do not think that some churches now-a-days are truly there to serve the purpose they were supposed to.

    and some wannabe christians as i call them are sheep lead by their noses. i used to go to CHC before i realised its a whole load of bullcrap.

    but i must hand it to the pastors there, they really know to do business.

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    Then i pity your fate. My cellgroup is not like your ex-cellgroup filled with lies and deceive. Your ex-cellgroup are a flop of wussbags and losers. What was taught to you are garbage from a faker.

    I am from CHC. But my group does not teach like yours.

    Those teachings you received are garbage and shallow-minded words. Your ex-cellgroup should be reported and casted away and brought down to HELL.

    Good that you left. Hah.
    We're all trapped in a maze of relationships. Life goes on with or without you.
    I swim in the sea of the unconscious. I search for your heart, pursuing my true self.

  25. #25
    SPchoo
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    Originally posted by Akarui Siren@May 15, 2007 10:36 pm
    Then i pity your fate. My cellgroup is not like your ex-cellgroup filled with lies and deceive. Your ex-cellgroup are a flop of wussbags and losers. What was taught to you are garbage from a faker.

    I am from CHC. But my group does not teach like yours.

    Those teachings you received are garbage and shallow-minded words. Your ex-cellgroup should be reported and casted away and brought down to HELL.

    Good that you left. Hah.
    wah steady. cause my ex-cell group leader was handpicked by your pastor Kong Hee himself. i totally agree with u that she should be sent to hell cause she was a manipulative ###### !!

    should i broadcast her name and let everyone know about her? then go down to CHC and report her ?

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    Originally posted by SPchoo@May 16, 2007 02:17 am
    wah steady. cause my ex-cell group leader was handpicked by your pastor Kong Hee himself. i totally agree with u that she should be sent to hell cause she was a manipulative ###### !!

    should i broadcast her name and let everyone know about her? then go down to CHC and report her ?
    Nope, CGLs are chosen by older CGLs. If they claimed to be selected by Pastor Kong him/herself, that's BULLSHIT. Zone Pastors choose potential CGLs.

    For my side, a CGL will propose to his/her Zone Pastor (Pastor Chee Kiang) if his/her member qualify to be a CGL. (Not sure if other Zone Pastors do the same). And if a member (usually matured ones) sees a CGL sending wrong teachings, he/she will either talk to the CGL, else report to the Zone Pastor. And the Zone Pastor will speak to the leader directly.

    Do you know which Zone Pastor are you under? Or which cellgroup are you from? I will discuss the issue with my cellgroup leader. She can get to the Zone Pastor directly. She might seek for you for more information -- like the teachings from your ex-CGL.


    Examples:

    (1) "as city harvest church will tell you, give more money to god and he will give u good grades."

    The church does not teaches that. Give money =/= Good grades. Just like you sow green beans you'll harvest wheats?? HELL NO.

    Good grades = commit 20 hrs per week of your time STUDYING.

    (2) "cause my ex-cell group leader was handpicked by your pastor Kong Hee himself."

    As mentioned above... If he/she is handpicked by Pastor Kong, he/she will be known a Zone Pastor, not a CGL.


    Celebrities can be christians too. Just like any other jobs regardless of gender, race, status, etc. Coz everyone is just human. Everybody will make mistakes whether christians or not. There WILL be some bad apples in a church, just like any other religion. It is the wisdom in us to be able to identify them.

    I joined CHC when I was 15. Thankfully, in a healthy CG. But as the church expands, so are the CGs. It was unfortunate that you stepped into a shitty CG that gave you the first bad impression of CHC. But not all are like that. My friend experienced it too, and was an anti-CHC till he sees mine. Just like you broke up with a terrible girlfriend does not means all girls are bad right?

    Anyway, peace be with you. Do not let your ex-CG get over into your life. Some people does not worth to be remembered or grudged over.
    We're all trapped in a maze of relationships. Life goes on with or without you.
    I swim in the sea of the unconscious. I search for your heart, pursuing my true self.

  27. #27
    SPchoo
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    Originally posted by Akarui Siren@May 16, 2007 09:53 am
    Nope, CGLs are chosen by older CGLs. If they claimed to be selected by Pastor Kong him/herself, that's BULLSHIT. Zone Pastors choose potential CGLs.

    For my side, a CGL will propose to his/her Zone Pastor (Pastor Chee Kiang) if his/her member qualify to be a CGL. (Not sure if other Zone Pastors do the same). And if a member (usually matured ones) sees a CGL sending wrong teachings, he/she will either talk to the CGL, else report to the Zone Pastor. And the Zone Pastor will speak to the leader directly.

    Do you know which Zone Pastor are you under? Or which cellgroup are you from? I will discuss the issue with my cellgroup leader. She can get to the Zone Pastor directly. She might seek for you for more information -- like the teachings from your ex-CGL.


    Examples:

    (1) "as city harvest church will tell you, give more money to god and he will give u good grades."

    The church does not teaches that. Give money =/= Good grades. Just like you sow green beans you'll harvest wheats?? HELL NO.

    Good grades = commit 20 hrs per week of your time STUDYING.

    (2) "cause my ex-cell group leader was handpicked by your pastor Kong Hee himself."

    As mentioned above... If he/she is handpicked by Pastor Kong, he/she will be known a Zone Pastor, not a CGL.


    Celebrities can be christians too. Just like any other jobs regardless of gender, race, status, etc. Coz everyone is just human. Everybody will make mistakes whether christians or not. There WILL be some bad apples in a church, just like any other religion. It is the wisdom in us to be able to identify them.

    I joined CHC when I was 15. Thankfully, in a healthy CG. But as the church expands, so are the CGs. It was unfortunate that you stepped into a shitty CG that gave you the first bad impression of CHC. But not all are like that. My friend experienced it too, and was an anti-CHC till he sees mine. Just like you broke up with a terrible girlfriend does not means all girls are bad right?

    Anyway, peace be with you. Do not let your ex-CG get over into your life. Some people does not worth to be remembered or grudged over.
    when i meant she was handpicked by Kong i didn't mean he made her a CGL, i meant that she helped kong when the church was still at paya lebar and they raised hell from there ever since.

    well. christianity has been a debate for thousands of years and i feel that, fortunately, i am standing on the side of disbelief. I believe that gods are creations of fear of the unknown. who can explain the afterlife if there is any? in ancient times, there were no courts to carry out justice so things like "if u steal, god will come down to earth and chop your hands off" were said to keep "law and order". i must admit the pple who came up with that theory were smart but the pple that believed it must have been dumpf*cks.

    there is always an excuse when a loophole or a question is raised with regards to christianity. after a lengthy explaination by a christian, it always ends with a "god works in mystery ways". doesn't it ? then when something that is mentioned all so vaguely in the bible happens, they say that it is prophecy. bullshit. in fact now i prophecise that one day the President of the United States is not going to be the President anymore. wow... i must be a prophet.

    i remember once when my friend and i went to church, CHC, and was asked to go to the front for kong to pray for us. two by two the fellows before us fell down when he touched them. when he came to my friend and i he laid his palm on our foreheads. my friend and i both exclaimed "wtf!". i remember walking back to my seat thinking "this is lame."

    as i always tell my friends, and they thankfully are smart enough to prefer my version, is that Jesus didn't die. He just went to a chalet for 3days and 2 nights before he returned. peace out !

  28. #28
    Enotsol
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    Please be reminded that while we encourage inter-religion and inter-racial interaction, discussions should be kept healthy and cool. The discussions in this thread are currently off-topic, so please keep to the topic.

    Any private disputes or disagreement should be settled privately.
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    Erm ... actually hor .... i oso gt bad impression of CHC .... I am a beliver of christ but dun really support the governance of CHC ... period. To SUN with love...... haha.
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    Double post ..... sorry
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    spchoo.. don't get so worked up laa..

    feel that CHC is getting too commercialized.. CHC actually got a ISO certification ah? amazing.. hahaha..

    anyway CHEC have quite alot of chics leh.. one of my ex was from there.. and her friends were pretty hot as well.

     

     
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    Welp, when the heart is stubborn, nothing gets into the mind. Nobody controls how you think in life. But since you decided this way, then that will be for your life. Noone is perfect, as I've mentioned. Even professionist makes mistakes.

    As for the woman, though she may be a long-time christian does not mean she is perfect. It is her choice to chose whether to be meek or aggressive. She will be judged eventually. Not by you. Send your complains to the Pastor, if you are reasonable to explain. I'll wash the matters off my hands.

    Singapore is always highly political obsessed. If they don't like something, they will shoot till the target collapse. And be outraging defensive over it, not being understanding and flexible. Compared to other countries? It was much easier.

    Singaporeans are spoilt rotten. And are never appreciative with the things around them. Else, they will perverse over it. If you don't like something, keep your mouth shut and let it pass. Peace.


    Enotsol >>> Sorry, I don't think this subject will ever end. This thread had been screwed up and lost its purpose. Either it gets locked up, died down, or continued.
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    Originally posted by fnee@May 16, 2007 08:26 pm
    spchoo.. don't get so worked up laa..

    feel that CHC is getting too commercialized.. CHC actually got a ISO certification ah? amazing.. hahaha..

    anyway CHEC have quite alot of chics leh.. one of my ex was from there.. and her friends were pretty hot as well.
    how hot is pretty hot ?
    burning hot

    i am a just a cute fox with nine tails

  34. #34
    SPchoo
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    Originally posted by ^FOXY^@May 17, 2007 12:43 pm
    how hot is pretty hot ?
    burning hot
    eh mod say off topic leh. so i better keep my mouth shut about it hor jap-wannabe.

    fnee: yah lor. iso i also want. if the unis in england also got iso i skip ns to study here already. lol

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    Thanks for the compliment.
    We're all trapped in a maze of relationships. Life goes on with or without you.
    I swim in the sea of the unconscious. I search for your heart, pursuing my true self.

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    sigh~ religion is always something sensitive~
    pls handle wif care yo~
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    Originally posted by SPchoo@May 17, 2007 06:44 pm
    eh mod say off topic leh. so i better keep my mouth shut about it hor jap-wannabe.

    fnee: yah lor. iso i also want. if the unis in england also got iso i skip ns to study here already. lol
    where are u now ?

    i am a just a cute fox with nine tails

  38. #38
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    Originally posted by Akarui Siren@May 17, 2007 09:40 am
    Welp, when the heart is stubborn, nothing gets into the mind. Nobody controls how you think in life. But since you decided this way, then that will be for your life. Noone is perfect, as I've mentioned. Even professionist makes mistakes.

    As for the woman, though she may be a long-time christian does not mean she is perfect. It is her choice to chose whether to be meek or aggressive. She will be judged eventually. Not by you. Send your complains to the Pastor, if you are reasonable to explain. I'll wash the matters off my hands.

    Singapore is always highly political obsessed. If they don't like something, they will shoot till the target collapse. And be outraging defensive over it, not being understanding and flexible. Compared to other countries? It was much easier.

    Singaporeans are spoilt rotten. And are never appreciative with the things around them. Else, they will perverse over it. If you don't like something, keep your mouth shut and let it pass. Peace.


    Enotsol >>> Sorry, I don't think this subject will ever end. This thread had been screwed up and lost its purpose. Either it gets locked up, died down, or continued.
    maybe u r the one who screwed up tis thread and make it lost its purpose,u can just keep ur comments to urself
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    Originally posted by happiness_1911@May 18, 2007 05:53 pm
    maybe u r the one who screwed up tis thread and make it lost its purpose,u can just keep ur comments to urself
    WAH happiness_1911...

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    just hope there will be peace in tis thread
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    actually it's not very wrong for a religious organisation to sponsor a school. just look at how many catholic schools we have already. or schools sponsored by chinese clan associations, or various organisations. CHC is just a modern incarnation of, hmm, i see it as social institutions "giving back" to the community (and thereby maintaning their validity etc).

    but actually i think CHC is getting too commercialised also. maybe not so strange in a world where consumerism is an ever-present ideology.

    it's quite scary for me personally, because i saw a friend's friend become mentally unstable slowly (she's better now), viz her blog entries. at the height of her problems (not just religious), she was fanatical about religion (via CHC), and it's scary because she obviously had problems, but apparently her church friends didn't see that and were probably encouraging her mentally unsound actions and thoughts. it seemed to me like they were exploiting her mental illness to turn her to god (and in typical CHC fashion in a commercial manner).

    in the end there was a lot of family conflict about going to church (and her family was christian&#33 (understandable to me; if i were a parent and my kid was coming home with delusions from church; or if they see her as normal and healthy and encourage her beliefs and behaviour when she's obviously not ok), and she had to quit her job and stay for quite a while in IMH.

    anyway now she's better (i'm so glad) and not so involved in church anymore, at least not on her blog. she's mad about the androgynous jap pop-stars and that seems so much more normal and healthier.

    the big questions are:

    1. where do you draw the line between healthy religious enthusiasm and mentally unsound thoughts towards religion? does the church have a responsibility to not encourage or exploit it, but instead to recognise it and help such people? where is the line between exploiting deluded christians (as opposed to sensible and willing christians) and offering spiritual fulfillment? how about between selling magic stones to aunties and that?

    2. why was tithing and money an issue? i can't remember the exact details but they were. and her family was christian and should understand. IMHO CHC is too commercial because money is too central. monetary contributions are too central to the church's operation. it is also very secular in how it attracts followers, e.g. via popular culture (music, celebrity, glamourising of church activities, etc), and that seems strange. of course from a detached position, re-invention of religion occurs all the time, and will tend to be considered sectarian or cultish before they become mainstream, but it's weird. it's not so different from the hoohah about falungong's leader sitting on the lotus throne, or there's been this neo-buddhism thing going on in singapore for a while now, which my orthodox buddhist friends are very shocked at. anyway, back to topic: why is CHC so secular and materialistic? is that the kind of values that religion will bear from now on? that is scary.


    i don't mean this as an attack at CHC, and i hope the members don't feel offended or defensive or anything. i'm just pointing out some things i'm seeing, and pointing it out so maybe we can think about it or talk about it rationally. CHC is doing some radical things... is that the right way forward or not? which of them (if any) are right and which of them are not?

    all the best to CHC, with all sincerity. i'm agnostic myself and not interested in religion, but i believe religion as an institution can be beneficial for society, so i don't mind raising these points if it can help reflect the situation to the religious people.

     

     
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    Originally posted by boofeng@May 21, 2007 12:59 am
    actually it's not very wrong for a religious organisation to sponsor a school. just look at how many catholic schools we have already. or schools sponsored by chinese clan associations, or various organisations. CHC is just a modern incarnation of, hmm, i see it as social institutions "giving back" to the community (and thereby maintaning their validity etc).

    but actually i think CHC is getting too commercialised also. maybe not so strange in a world where consumerism is an ever-present ideology.

    it's quite scary for me personally, because i saw a friend's friend become mentally unstable slowly (she's better now), viz her blog entries. at the height of her problems (not just religious), she was fanatical about religion (via CHC), and it's scary because she obviously had problems, but apparently her church friends didn't see that and were probably encouraging her mentally unsound actions and thoughts. it seemed to me like they were exploiting her mental illness to turn her to god (and in typical CHC fashion in a commercial manner).

    in the end there was a lot of family conflict about going to church (and her family was christian&#33 (understandable to me; if i were a parent and my kid was coming home with delusions from church; or if they see her as normal and healthy and encourage her beliefs and behaviour when she's obviously not ok), and she had to quit her job and stay for quite a while in IMH.

    anyway now she's better (i'm so glad) and not so involved in church anymore, at least not on her blog. she's mad about the androgynous jap pop-stars and that seems so much more normal and healthier.

    the big questions are:

    1. where do you draw the line between healthy religious enthusiasm and mentally unsound thoughts towards religion? does the church have a responsibility to not encourage or exploit it, but instead to recognise it and help such people? where is the line between exploiting deluded christians (as opposed to sensible and willing christians) and offering spiritual fulfillment? how about between selling magic stones to aunties and that?

    2. why was tithing and money an issue? i can't remember the exact details but they were. and her family was christian and should understand. IMHO CHC is too commercial because money is too central. monetary contributions are too central to the church's operation. it is also very secular in how it attracts followers, e.g. via popular culture (music, celebrity, glamourising of church activities, etc), and that seems strange. of course from a detached position, re-invention of religion occurs all the time, and will tend to be considered sectarian or cultish before they become mainstream, but it's weird. it's not so different from the hoohah about falungong's leader sitting on the lotus throne, or there's been this neo-buddhism thing going on in singapore for a while now, which my orthodox buddhist friends are very shocked at. anyway, back to topic: why is CHC so secular and materialistic? is that the kind of values that religion will bear from now on? that is scary.


    i don't mean this as an attack at CHC, and i hope the members don't feel offended or defensive or anything. i'm just pointing out some things i'm seeing, and pointing it out so maybe we can think about it or talk about it rationally. CHC is doing some radical things... is that the right way forward or not? which of them (if any) are right and which of them are not?

    all the best to CHC, with all sincerity. i'm agnostic myself and not interested in religion, but i believe religion as an institution can be beneficial for society, so i don't mind raising these points if it can help reflect the situation to the religious people.
    dear boofeng, u raised alot of gd questions. However,1st thing 2highlight, and pardon me frm saying this: many of them r quite of topic, more sort of targeting at CHC.

    hmmm..... i'll try my best to reply in a tactful manner and yet able 2respect threadstarter's wishes by maintain peace~

    i'll try 2 seperate them and reply u...see my next few posts
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    人会变得温柔, 是透澈的懂了
    懂了, 快乐是选择
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    Originally posted by boofeng@May 21, 2007 12:59 am
    actually it's not very wrong for a religious organisation to sponsor a school. just look at how many catholic schools we have already. or schools sponsored by chinese clan associations, or various organisations. CHC is just a modern incarnation of, hmm, i see it as social institutions "giving back" to the community (and thereby maintaning their validity etc).

    ----> i totally agreed wif you above. glad you acknowledge that wat CHC had done for our community
    but actually i think CHC is getting too commercialised also. maybe not so strange in a world where consumerism is an ever-present ideology.

    ----> commercialised & etc, all these boils down to the Church's management/vision/focus/calling. AND, most impt, how outsiders they perceive too~

    it's quite scary for me personally, because i saw a friend's friend become mentally unstable slowly (she's better now), viz her blog entries. at the height of her problems (not just religious), she was fanatical about religion (via CHC), and it's scary because she obviously had problems, but apparently her church friends didn't see that and were probably encouraging her mentally unsound actions and thoughts. it seemed to me like they were exploiting her mental illness to turn her to god (and in typical CHC fashion in a commercial manner).

    in the end there was a lot of family conflict about going to church (and her family was christian&#33 (understandable to me; if i were a parent and my kid was coming home with delusions from church; or if they see her as normal and healthy and encourage her beliefs and behaviour when she's obviously not ok), and she had to quit her job and stay for quite a while in IMH.

    anyway now she's better (i'm so glad) and not so involved in church anymore, at least not on her blog. she's mad about the androgynous jap pop-stars and that seems so much more normal and healthier.

    ----> sincerely, i felt bad when u shared the above story. Despite i do not know her, i am moved wif compassion for this particular girl~

    however, before, i judged or comment further, mayb i would like to find out MORE from the girl herself and the church pastors or cell leader as well as her closed friends who deeply involved in counselling her case.
    Bcos,
    wat you heard is mayb one-sided of the stories~
    there is alot of angles towards this issues.
    incidents/issues mayb unusually exaggerated~


    the big questions are:

    1. where do you draw the line between healthy religious enthusiasm and mentally unsound thoughts towards religion? does the church have a responsibility to not encourage or exploit it, but instead to recognise it and help such people? where is the line between exploiting deluded christians (as opposed to sensible and willing christians) and offering spiritual fulfillment? how about between selling magic stones to aunties and that?
    ----> i've to admit is a very thin line. and alot of times is depending on the believer themselves.
    THe church may advice accordingly, but if the believer do not follows and behave or react otherwise, is making issues complicated.
    I've to highlight again, as i do not know the full details. i choose not to comment further~


    2. why was tithing and money an issue? i can't remember the exact details but they were. and her family was christian and should understand. IMHO CHC is too commercial because money is too central. monetary contributions are too central to the church's operation. it is also very secular in how it attracts followers, e.g. via popular culture (music, celebrity, glamourising of church activities, etc), and that seems strange. of course from a detached position, re-invention of religion occurs all the time, and will tend to be considered sectarian or cultish before they become mainstream, but it's weird. it's not so different from the hoohah about falungong's leader sitting on the lotus throne, or there's been this neo-buddhism thing going on in singapore for a while now, which my orthodox buddhist friends are very shocked at. anyway, back to topic: why is CHC so secular and materialistic? is that the kind of values that religion will bear from now on? that is scary.
    -----> personally, i too heard from my churchmates who were from CHC previously, sharing some 'not so nice' abt CHC.
    but to me,
    i view it this way:
    this is their CHC 'family problems' outsiders, very hard to chap one leg.
    morever, for those who left, surely they encounter some bitterness wif the church.
    henceforth, wat they said may not be genuinely objectively.

    Since, you are so deeply concerned, i would suggest you to send email to CHC, and i believed the church office will reply accordingly.
    secondly:
    to me,
    tithing or offering, is depending on you yourself.
    there is no point forcing, and the amount of money you give to church, doesn't justify how devoted you are as a believer, ultimately is your fruits (i.e. the way you carry yourself, your character and personality)

    however, i have to acknowledge this:
    money is reli required and useful in doing good deeds back to the community.

    i went for mission trip before, i saw how those really poor people survive and struggle day to day.
    they not only required people to care, but more practically, helping in deeds, not juz plaint words on their problems.



    i don't mean this as an attack at CHC, and i hope the members don't feel offended or defensive or anything. i'm just pointing out some things i'm seeing, and pointing it out so maybe we can think about it or talk about it rationally. CHC is doing some radical things... is that the right way forward or not? which of them (if any) are right and which of them are not?

    all the best to CHC, with all sincerity. i'm agnostic myself and not interested in religion, but i believe religion as an institution can be beneficial for society, so i don't mind raising these points if it can help reflect the situation to the religious people.
    1st thing to highlight:
    1. i am not CHC member, although my church is oso independent churches like CHC, but mine is more towards traditional/conservative kind
    --->therefore, still, i will try to maintain neutral.
    2. Since you mention that you are agnostic yourself, is very hard for us (generally from Christian viewpoint to explain to you)
    it is juz like telling the Muslim, how tasty is roast pork
    or telling an ang-mo (dislike and find durian smelly) how tasty is D24 durian
    ----> still, i will try to make my replies justified.


    see "---->"
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    人会变得温柔, 是透澈的懂了
    懂了, 快乐是选择
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    finally, i just wanna say:
    learn to balance.
    Personally i felt, religion, is like an eagle soaring.
    One of its wing represents spiritual side, allowing ppl to draw spiritual strength.
    While the other of its wings represents the practical sides or character or fruits (not just in words but in deeds and in wisdom)
    showing a good testimony in work and family and to the community, not just in church.
    (however, i need to highlight this: doesn't mean christian r treated or need 2behave like a door-mat, always pleasing others and let ppl anyhow walk over them. Be wise, know how 2deal or 'play along' wif those scheming and bad ppl. Don't harm them, but at least have wisdom to protect yourself)

    for this eagle to fly long and far, both wings are equally impt, need2b in sync and be balanced.
    Too focus on one side is not healthy
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    人会变得温柔, 是透澈的懂了
    懂了, 快乐是选择
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    devoted i agreed wat u had said
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    hi ^devoted^

    yes what i'm saying is quite off-topic, it's nothing to do with the school. so maybe i won't post anymore after this. i just wanted to say how disturbed i am by CHC. but i'm not asking for anyone to account for anything (i.e. i'm not so concerned, not in that way). i just wanted to say it so the CHC people and the public are more aware of what's going on, which they might not know about if i didn't say. criticism is not my main intention; informing is.

    i also don't want to share any info about this person publicly. i don't even know her well (just acquaintance.. she's my good friend's friend only). in fact, i only found out because i regularly read her blog (i used to enjoy reading her thoughts about political philosophy) and i thought "wow she's changing a lot... so strange... is she okay?", so i asked my friend and she told me about her mental illness. it's scary when you can see the "madness" happen on a blog. my friend only told me because i asked.

    as you can see, neither she nor her friends/family complained to me about her situation. i just voyeured my way through the entire episode. my story is "objective" in that sense. and in that i'm not partisan because i'm not christian or anti-christian.


    about tithing: yes money is really needed, but we as observers can see the pressure. lots of organisations raise money for worthy causes (not just christian or religious organisations). there's nothing wrong with wanting to tithe/donate/contribute a lot to something. i am just disturbed if a lot of pressure is applied to members to do something. there's something wrong with an organisation applying a lot of pressure on its members to act in certain ways. i think i'm disturbed because it impinges on personal liberty which i believe very much in.

    on top of tithing, if the church pressures people even when they're mentally unbalanced, or worse, pressures people until they're mentally unbalanced (i don't think it happened in my story, but it could happen)... it seems just too much lah. makes me think of the cultural revolution, re-education, etc etc. it violates basic individual rights too much.

    maybe you can see it as i'm coming from a individual vs community/social institution perspective (rather than that i'm against a particular religion or church). from the perspective of liberty, positive and negative liberties, etc.

    okok very off-topic. let me stop from here-on.

    er... and i'm really glad you have such a "balanced" view on religion (scare quotes because i am really reluctant to judge and put a label on things). let's hope our churches like CHC can be as balanced as you are.

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    Originally posted by boofeng@May 21, 2007 10:11 pm
    hi ^devoted^

    yes what i'm saying is quite off-topic, it's nothing to do with the school. so maybe i won't post anymore after this. i just wanted to say how disturbed i am by CHC. but i'm not asking for anyone to account for anything (i.e. i'm not so concerned, not in that way). i just wanted to say it so the CHC people and the public are more aware of what's going on, which they might not know about if i didn't say. criticism is not my main intention; informing is.

    i also don't want to share any info about this person publicly. i don't even know her well (just acquaintance.. she's my good friend's friend only). in fact, i only found out because i regularly read her blog (i used to enjoy reading her thoughts about political philosophy) and i thought "wow she's changing a lot... so strange... is she okay?", so i asked my friend and she told me about her mental illness. it's scary when you can see the "madness" happen on a blog. my friend only told me because i asked.

    as you can see, neither she nor her friends/family complained to me about her situation. i just voyeured my way through the entire episode. my story is "objective" in that sense. and in that i'm not partisan because i'm not christian or anti-christian.


    about tithing: yes money is really needed, but we as observers can see the pressure. lots of organisations raise money for worthy causes (not just christian or religious organisations). there's nothing wrong with wanting to tithe/donate/contribute a lot to something. i am just disturbed if a lot of pressure is applied to members to do something. there's something wrong with an organisation applying a lot of pressure on its members to act in certain ways. i think i'm disturbed because it impinges on personal liberty which i believe very much in.

    on top of tithing, if the church pressures people even when they're mentally unbalanced, or worse, pressures people until they're mentally unbalanced (i don't think it happened in my story, but it could happen)... it seems just too much lah. makes me think of the cultural revolution, re-education, etc etc. it violates basic individual rights too much.

    maybe you can see it as i'm coming from a individual vs community/social institution perspective (rather than that i'm against a particular religion or church). from the perspective of liberty, positive and negative liberties, etc.

    okok very off-topic. let me stop from here-on.

    er... and i'm really glad you have such a "balanced" view on religion (scare quotes because i am really reluctant to judge and put a label on things). let's hope our churches like CHC can be as balanced as you are.


    well...... thanks for sharing too~
    i sincerely appreciate that

    i agreed too, is too ~

    let's return to threadstarter to continue abt CHEC ba~
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    人会变得温柔, 是透澈的懂了
    懂了, 快乐是选择
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  48. #48
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    i am alrite with u guys toking abt CHC cause it is somehow link to my sch,so just share ur views abt CHC or CHEC
    Four Wheels Move The Body,Two Wheels Move The Soul

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    Originally posted by happiness_1911@May 22, 2007 08:47 pm
    i am alrite with u guys toking abt CHC cause it is somehow link to my sch,so just share ur views abt CHC or CHEC
    happiness, what courses are offered at your school ?

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    Originally posted by SPchoo@May 23, 2007 03:18 am
    happiness, what courses are offered at your school ?
    at my time was only O-level and dance courses,but i tink nw there r other new courses
    Four Wheels Move The Body,Two Wheels Move The Soul

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