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Thread: PLEASE, I BEG YOU TO RECONSIDER, to give allowance time for rider to insert their cas

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    mi5trooper
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    Default PLEASE, I BEG YOU TO RECONSIDER, to give allowance time for rider to insert their cas



    either LTA can come up with a device that we could "SAFELY" leave our cash card in the device, or allow motorist to "PAUSE" for 15-30 second to insert a cash card in the device before entering the gantry.

    FACTS:
    1. as we know that no matter how we locked and cover our IU unit, theif still have their method to break it to "steal" the cash card.
    2. Without a cash card going into the gantry is fine + entry value.
    3. There is these traffic warrent (not police) on their transport to issue fine.
    4. there are a few "BLACK SHEEP" who actually wait before the gantry.
    5. Human sometime "DO FORGET" to insert the cash card.
    6. CAR driver has the chance to drive slow (actually the traffic itself is slow already). which give them the 15 second to insert the cash card.
    7. MANY motorist wishes to obey the rules to insert a cash card, but it is not easy to ride and insert cash card.
    8. The fine may be a great impact to a middle or low incoming holding.
    9. ALL IT TAKES is for the rules to allow 15-30second of allowance for motorist to "PAUSE" and insert cash card.


    I don't know any channel but i am appealling to all to help appeal to the "body" that write the rules or to the "body" that employ the traffic warrant - please understand the suitation before making a decision. We all have a family to take care of and we are all lawful people. We should respect and be understand of each other.

    I am also appealing to the LTA to design a device that is sperate from the sensor. So that the "part" of the deive with the cash card insert can be install in a more secure area, for example under the seat (which is lock) or in the box (which is lock).

    We understand the term, insert the cash card when riding and remove the cash card when not riding. but do u understand us? My cash card was stolen so many time that i can buy 5 tin of milk powder for my baby. I have locked my device. i have covered my device. The thief simply just break it. The police can only do so much to help us petrol more freq (thanks mr policeman). It is the device design that is inviting theif.

    PLEASE, I BEG YOU TO RECONSIDER, to give allowance time for rider to insert their cash card before entering the gantry.


    p/s: the advice "ride thru the gantry without a cash card and pay the fine" is not a good advice.


    ----- wrote to LTA as below ---

    I would like to rise my appeal to LTA to consider to allow motorist to "PAUSE" for 15-30 second to insert a cash card in the device before entering the gantry.

    - I do not denie there are a few "black sheep" which try to escape the gantry payment by waiting for the timeup before the gantry.
    - There are also many road user who may honestly have forgotten to insert the cash card.
    - By allowing they the 2nd chance to "pause" for 15-30 second to insert the cash card before entering the gantry, you are allowing panic rider to ride safely. the camera (already have) will be a good tools to monitor the road user.
    - traffic warranty may like to be give more humanity on the (bike) road user before the gantry. (I mean by all means to fine the the person who try to cheat the gantry. but allow a few second of pause for rider who wish to insert the cash card)
    - For a low incoming or a avg incoming holder, every single cent is important for their household living.
    - rules are make to keep the system smooth and safe. But I am sure a little "human goodwill gesture" allowance will benefit the road user as a whole. a happy road user is a safe road user.


    I would like to rise my appeal to LTA to consider design a IU device that we could "SAFELY" leave our cash card in the device. The design should have 2 sector. 1st is the sensor section which is expose in the open area on the bike. 2nd is the cash card section which can be safely keep under the bike (which is not visible and has lock) or in the bike box (which is not visible and has lock).

    FACTS:
    1. as we know that no matter how we locked and cover our IU unit, thief still have their method to break it to "steal" the cash card.
    2. the current IU design is almost a welcome invitation to thief (Even if the IU unit is locked and covered up nicely)
    3. Human sometime "DO FORGET" to insert the cash card.
    6. CAR driver may have the chance (+-15 second) to insert the cash card.
    7. MANY motorist wishes to obey the rules to insert a cash card, but it is not easy to ride and insert cash card.
    8. The fine may be a great impact to a middle or low incoming holding.
    Last edited by mi5trooper; 27-06-2007 at 12:10 PM.

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    mi5trooper
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    anyone who know of channel to foward this appeal request. pls help. many rider will appericate your effort. I promise you.

     

     
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    OhMiGosh
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    forward to LTA
    "R" to we pray.
    The new Religion
    always remembered 糖果

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    mi5trooper
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    to all the policeman in this forum. Thank you for your more feq petrol

    if my few police report of stolen cash card and bring in (to my bike) has increase your work load, i really appericate. thank you.

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    panclanrider
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    Thumbs down

    Forward it to LTA...
    Quote Originally Posted by Naz View Post

    Steps to do a proper KNNBCCB with middle finger.

    1. Bow down slightly, looking intensely at objective
    2. Like a raging bull, hop and jog slowly towards objective
    3. Take your left palm and slap it hard on the right mid-arm with a SLAP!
    4. With charisma, raise right arm, whilst showing middle finger (with left palm trapped in bend right arm)
    5. Shout! KNNBCCB

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    i did write in lta discussion. i just hope that more people to know this appeal. and if u do agree on this, pls play a part my writing your comment to the channel too.

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    mi5trooper
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    1 person voice is soft. a nation voice is loud.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mi5trooper View Post
    1 person voice is soft. a nation voice is loud.
    agreed..
    .the Raven travels alone.

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    I seldom use my Unit as i seldom head into town.

    However, when there's a need for me to use da damned thing, it's actually not workin after being on the bike for so many years.

    Go for inspection, it's faulty and need to change a new one and no longer under warranty.

    I feel that LTA can and would be able to design a smaller and suitable Unit for motorcycles as the current is way too bike and obstructs view and adds weight on the bars.

    A sensor disc would be good and juz bill the user at the month end, wouldn't it be sweeter since all they want to do is make more money outta us?
    All of us has a price.....If not today, maybe tomorrow.

    To be seen : Stand up

    To be heard : Speak up

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    mi5trooper
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    like i said. i appeal for a redesign of the device.

    the cheapest and easiest method is to divide the device into 2 section (conected together via wires). The sensor section will be install anywhere on the exposed area of the bike. the cash card section will be install in the glove compartment under the seat, or in the box or even in a metel locked box that we could attached to any part of the bike.

    the good factor as below:
    1. the ERP system current using does not have to be change (i am taking about the software of the main frame system that build the erp.)
    2. the device main parts does not need to change too, just modification.
    3. As road user can leave their cash card in the device, it will not be an excuse to "forgot instert". If the fine is given becos of "no enough value", we will be glad to pay the fine of lta.
    4. traffic warrant is issuing fine "stop at road side" with demrit point and fine. this is the part which i am appealing. This is extremely unfair for road user who "without thinking" stop on the road side for 15-30 second to insert their cash card and moved on.

    5. for lta to bill the user at the end of the month require the software engineer to change the system. additional cost to our government. (for my point of view)

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    p/s: i am not saying i am right. I am just appeal for the a more human good will gesture for the road user. Rules are set for a better tomolo. but punishment or rules should be set according to flexible and situation. Unless these allowance is written in the rules, it will always be a case to case bases and the road user are the only one suffering in silence.

    base on TP theory (told to me a few years back), stopping on the road shoulder is illegal - unless emergency or break down. inserting cash card and putting on road gear are not consider emergency. only life and death matters are consider emergency matter.

     

     
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    i read 1 good example from a tv show i see.

    a senior lawyer say to a junior lawyer:

    Everyday, we have to go thru many case and recieve many files. To us lawyer, Mr xxx is just another name we see on another file. If we make any mistake or error, we may just say "**** happen". But to Mr xxx, it may be a mistake or error that will effect his whole life.

    I like the way that lawyer say in the tv show. That is why i as a cus ser always try my best to deal with every case whole heartedly. But i can only do "so much". Unless i set a clear statement for all cus ser to follow, there will be so many customer suffer in silent. it hurt me.

    hmm... ok. i know this is not a good example. i am just writing without much thinking. pls treat it as listen to my voice as a listener. thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The[J]Man View Post
    I seldom use my Unit as i seldom head into town.

    However, when there's a need for me to use da damned thing, it's actually not workin after being on the bike for so many years.

    Go for inspection, it's faulty and need to change a new one and no longer under warranty.

    I feel that LTA can and would be able to design a smaller and suitable Unit for motorcycles as the current is way too bike and obstructs view and adds weight on the bars.

    A sensor disc would be good and juz bill the user at the month end, wouldn't it be sweeter since all they want to do is make more money outta us?
    i agree.
    and then i don have to keep running to 7/11 or wherever to top up my cash card.
    some pple might say, might as well top up once and for all. yes. but at least if its stolen or wad. not so heart pain as the amount inside is not that much.
    .

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    madman
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    LTA may say, you would know in advance whether you want to enter ERP zone or not one loh...then they will give BS answer, and write off with :

    Motorists can check for ERP time and zones active at blahblahblah.com...hahaa

    I mean, you can always stop someway else if you wanna enter rite? Not say last min. then you realised eh, got to pay ERP. Maybe for minority who don't know, but most of us would have known.

    However, it'll be hard for LTA to do this, as some people really stop to wait 30s for the ERP to off...and it's hard for them to differentiate I guess...


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    true.
    tats a sooooooo-expected-answer from gahment.

    i suppose thats wad happen when pple found fault in thier "products"?
    .

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    i presume the practice of traffic warrant are copy down the licence plate without thinking.

    AND YES. Sometime people do forget about ERP TIME. I AM TALKING on the 6-8pm on certain area. NOT the usual 730-930am period.

    I repeat. YES. people do tend to forget. (we are human for crying out loud)

    For eg, there is a camara area locate at xxx location that is near the gentry shoulder, this is the only are a bike can stop and insert a cash card and go off. This area only need to be 1-2 car lenght. the autho will have to right to issue fine to bike that is stop at the location for more then 1 min.

    (give us some slack)
    Last edited by mi5trooper; 27-06-2007 at 02:42 PM.

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    madman
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    I guess yap, they just copy the lic plate if you stopped loh...they wouldnt bother listen to excuses one...

    same like TP (not all)...they tell you, if you tink you got a valid reason, then you can always go appeal when you receive the summon...kaoz!


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    that is why appealling for more human factor in the written rules.

    Anyway, the main appeal is 1) to re-design the device so that a cash card can safely leave in the bike. 2) an desinated area that allow bike to stop on the highway without being pit down.


    ** if there is such area written in the rule book, it will be blessing to road user. to avoid this "benefit" to be mis-use, a camera can be mounted on the area and the authro has the right issue a fine to any bike that has "stop" in the area for more then 1 min. on the other hand, all bike has the right to stop in this area for less then 1 min legally.

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    if that happens, it'll be great for bikers.


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    I have go to the extend to tie the cash card on my key. all i need is 5 second to insert it. (base on my experience).

    The advice from LTA (many years ago) is to go thru the gantry without a card and pay the fine. It will be better then pay the tp fine and get the demerit point. I understand this statement and in a certain way, i agree. But we as human, may not be able to think straight when we panic. We are bring up in a lawful way. to stop and insert the cash card come immidiately to our mind in a split second. this come naturely. Does anyone agree to this statment?

    ** we find food, when hungry. we sleep when we are tired. this is nature.

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    one person voice is soft. a nation of united voices forcusing on the same statement is strong. This is an appeal. not an order.

    ** he who listen and understand to its people (reasonably), win the nation.

     

     
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    anyway, I ever tio stop by an uncle on a bike b4 I enter gantry...maybe 10m away...he ask me lend him cashcard he pay me...so I go thru gantry, stopped by side, and he came over take card and go thru...

    I'm sure the cam can see what we are doing...cos I stopped near gantry and put cashcard in, then chatted with oldman etc...


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    ** i edit and deleted this msg.
    Last edited by mi5trooper; 27-06-2007 at 03:28 PM.

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    How can I be of help to your petition as well bro?
    Co-Moderator for IT -inerary forum
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    simple. voice out to as many people as you know.

    if my writing is good, i will write to ST forum.

    This is call "pass it on" campaign. a happy road user, is a safe road user.
    (humm.. this sound like the TP campaign of road using. hehe.. i actually been practicing it for over 10 years. i give way to the needed. i wave to say thank you to the people who give way to me. I stop to help any road user (i don't know them) to my best knowledge. and i am proud of it. i am only ashame that i didn't practice this action in the first 2 yr when i have my licence. i was young then. sigh...)

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    I only agree to the part that the ERP device should be redesigned. Whoever came up with that design obviously was only looking at cars or looking at the cheapest, most obvious form. Or even worse, no vehicles were used in the designing.

    External sensor is not a bad idea but for me I wish the ERP unit can actually store money. I.E. plug ash card in, it will deduct like $10 (or even more) into the machine and then we can remove the cashcard. The $10 is stored in the ERP unit and there is nothing for theives to prey on.

    Een better still, the ERP will detect the number of charges and simply deductthe amt monthly from our GIRO account! WHY MUST WE USE CASHCARD!
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    Quote Originally Posted by mi5trooper View Post
    4. traffic warrant is issuing fine "stop at road side" with demrit point and fine. this is the part which i am appealing. This is extremely unfair for road user who "without thinking" stop on the road side for 15-30 second to insert their cash card and moved on.

    5. for lta to bill the user at the end of the month require the software engineer to change the system. additional cost to our government. (for my point of view)

    I oppose your petition.
    Why do you think the authorities fine people who stop at the roadside before the gantry?

    Because it's dangerous for themselves, and for the other road users. Even people who stop at expressway road shoulders in real emergencies or breakdowns have been hit and some killed.

    If you forget, drive through and worry about it later.
    If you selfishly stop at the side, then get ready to pay and get DIPS points for that.

    Be thankful the one behind didn't ram into you. And be thankful that the one in front of you didn't stop and cause you to ram into him and fly through the air.

    I also oppose monthly billings. If you followed the development of the ERP, you will know why the government chose the pay as you go method instead of a pay each month method.
    He who hesitates is lost!

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    Quote Originally Posted by contrarian View Post
    I oppose your petition.
    Why do you think the authorities fine people who stop at the roadside before the gantry?

    Because it's dangerous for themselves, and for the other road users. Even people who stop at expressway road shoulders in real emergencies or breakdowns have been hit and some killed.

    If you forget, drive through and worry about it later.
    If you selfishly stop at the side, then get ready to pay and get DIPS points for that.

    Be thankful the one behind didn't ram into you. And be thankful that the one in front of you didn't stop and cause you to ram into him and fly through the air.

    I also oppose monthly billings. If you followed the development of the ERP, you will know why the government chose the pay as you go method instead of a pay each month method.
    While I second the opposition of the "roadside saman" appeal, I do believe LTA can do better in terms of billing people by giving the public a second option -- delayed payment. This could be demonstrated as what I'm going to explain next:

    Look at the likes of London. They don't have gantries; vans equipped with license-plate-capturing cameras are used instead. Images captured by the cameras get processed by computers with OCR-like software, which input the resulting car plate number into the database of people to be charged.

    Motorists who entered the city are given (i believe) 24hours to pay up their basic CBD toll fee via various electronic methods. This same technology is also provided for motorists to check their cumulative toll fee(s) online as well.
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    or have a device in the machine, that is attached to ur vehicle permanently..
    once u go thru the gantry, it'll register ur vehicle.. and bill u the payment for entries u made for that month?
    .

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    I remember seeing the news once that this bill suggest is being study by the authori. i also hope a good solution can come up asap to "take away" "human error" issue.

    i am sure LTA can improve to achieve a higher and greater achievement that will sati both the provider and the consumer.

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    Last year, it was reported that they were developing the next generation IU that allows negative values to be stored in the IU and the value deducted from the cash card that you next insert into it. Let's see if it is put to production by 2008.
    He who hesitates is lost!

     

     
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    Quote Originally Posted by contrarian View Post
    Last year, it was reported that they were developing the next generation IU that allows negative values to be stored in the IU and the value deducted from the cash card that you next insert into it. Let's see if it is put to production by 2008.
    If that is true, I want to volunteer testing this and subsequently to be the first using it.

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    I think its simply easier and less usage of the brain to just summon first, then u appeal later.
    Majority of the people will just curse, "KNN $10 + ERP charge" then lanlan go pay.
    Only a small minority who felt wronged will appeal.

    Lets say, out of 10 offenders, only 3 appeals and the rest just swear and pay the fine, they will earn that BS $70 administrative fee without any contest.

    So by making the Money sucking device into an idiot proof one, imagine how much administrative charges they will lose.

    Basically the $10 administrative charge is damn jialat.
    Like a fat bonus like that. 50cents ERP charge and the $10 admin

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    dear sheep. i am not taking about the $10 + erp charge.

    I am talking about human nature act. with some bad luck, the traffic warrant appear at the same time, he/she may issue a fine that send to you. the fine is (i forgot 70 or 150) plus 3 demrit point. The reason given is road shoulder are not to be stop at all time unless it is life and death emegency. (yes, that means if it rain, you are not allow to stop and change rain gear too).

    I am most willing to contribute to the road traffic system fairly. i have up the the extend of tie the cash card on the key. But human do forget. And human do have the nature act (nature act is action before thinking. for eg, hungry will eat.) pull over to insert the cash card. And i can fairly say, this possible error may happen once a yr.

    anyway, the greatest appeal is for a IU unit that can sperate the sensor from the cash card, and the cash card can be install in hidden and secure location for eg under the seat compartment or in a box. In this way, owner can safely leave a cash card in the system without taking out.

    I have try custom make a locking bracket but have to remove it becos the ERP cannot sense the IU.

    I have use lock but was break in many time.

    my IU is well covered. i try install the iu in the box too. but that also fail to scan (a few time). I test the scan with the inspection centre.

    i have make a few police report that the kind police actually is petrol more often (thanks).

    The second appeal if hope for LTA to consider a "stop and go" area at the road shoulder to allow bike to stop - insert card - go. LTA just need to draw a yellow box at the shoulder. Of cos, many in the forum has express the possible danger it may rise.

    I have actually keep reminding myself to go thru the gantry without thinking. but nature act always kicks in when i can only think "i don't have cash card in iu".

    i started this and i know i will mostlike get shoot down. i just want to voice out and need a listen ear.

    i hope the new IU or ERP system can come out asap. i hope a win win issue for both LTA and consumer can happen asap.

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    i am willing to pay $xx for that device. dear LTA pls show mercy. :-)



    Quote Originally Posted by contrarian View Post
    Last year, it was reported that they were developing the next generation IU that allows negative values to be stored in the IU and the value deducted from the cash card that you next insert into it. Let's see if it is put to production by 2008.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mi5trooper View Post
    1 person voice is soft. a nation voice is loud.
    i support ur cause bro... but unfortunately for us, the "nation" does not ride....

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    Hi everyone, there's a lot of comments and reply by u guys for me to read bout this IU thingy. Y not make it simple for the authority. Since most vehicle have got the IU, and they will eventually fine us if we pass tru the gantry without inserting the cash card. Y can't they just turn the system around and make life simpler for everbody. U don't nid to re-design the device but jus bill us whenever we pass tru da gantry, isn't it better dat way. We are use to paying our PUB, Phone bills and watever bills, so i don't see any hassle juz to include one more bills.

    This is juz my personnal opinion, maybe u guys out there have a better idea.

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    this may require huge software engineer labour. sigh..




    Quote Originally Posted by cool_bikers View Post
    Hi everyone, there's a lot of comments and reply by u guys for me to read bout this IU thingy. Y not make it simple for the authority. Since most vehicle have got the IU, and they will eventually fine us if we pass tru the gantry without inserting the cash card. Y can't they just turn the system around and make life simpler for everbody. U don't nid to re-design the device but jus bill us whenever we pass tru da gantry, isn't it better dat way. We are use to paying our PUB, Phone bills and watever bills, so i don't see any hassle juz to include one more bills.

    This is juz my personnal opinion, maybe u guys out there have a better idea.

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    Fine, all of you, listen to your former minister answer this question:

    ---
    Budget debate for Ministry for Transport -- ERP for Motorcycles
    Fri, Mar 12, 2004
    Sir, the current cash card reader on motorcycle is big and bulky and openly subjected to theft of cash card. Many motorcyclists, myself included, as I declare here, are known to have lost many cash cards when they forget to take it out from the reader, after they have parked the motorcycle. ...
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ERP for Motorcycles


    Mr Steve Chia Kiah Hong (Non-Constituency Member): Sir, the current cash card reader on motorcycle is big and bulky and openly subjected to theft of cash card. Many motorcyclists, myself included, as I declare here, are known to have lost many cash cards when they forget to take it out from the reader, after they have parked the motorcycle. Not everyone is born with the talent of good memory and habit of checking for our cash cards before leaving our machine. Bikers should not be financially penalised with loss because of the design system issue or problem. The ERP reader has been in place for almost 10 years since the start of the road pricing. It is high time an alternative to the cash card reader be considered and implemented for motorists to alleviate this problem of stolen cash cards in motorcycles and also smashed windscreens in cars.



    My suggestion is for LTA to consider the setting up of a system whereby the motorists, whether car drivers or motorcyclists, can sign up for a monthly billing and Giro deduction system. Under such a system, the card reader records the different entries under different ERP gantries and LTA can bill the registered motorists electronically at month-end and receive payment via Giro automatically. I believe this is not a very high-tech nor expensive system and it will greatly reduce the inconvenience that road users have to bear, especially when they forget to insert the card, top up the cash card, hide or lose their cash card or stolen through windscreen breakage. This will also discourage petty theft as there is less opportunity to tempt the thief into stealing and smashing windows for that cash card. I hope the Minister will at least agree to look into this idea before giving his objection.




    Mr Yeo Cheow Tong: . . . . . Mr Steve Chia mentioned about the poor design of the motorcycle IU. I agree with Mr Chia that the present In-vehicle Unit (IU) for motorcycles is not really ideal. But the key constraint that we have to bear in mind is that the IU has to be mounted in front of the vehicle to allow it to communicate with the ERP gantry, and to enable the motorist to view the value of his Cashcard. This applies to both cars and motorcycles. I think the problem is, unlike cars, for motorcycles it is very difficult to place the IU in a position where it can be locked and concealed because the motorcycle is a very open one.



    The good news I have for Mr Chia is that LTA is now looking into a new generation IU that would have improved features to reduce the incidence of Cashcard theft. In the meantime, we have to continue to remind motorists to avoid the risk of losing their Cashcard by remembering to remove it from their IUs when they lock up their vehicles.



    He also suggested a system where the motorist can sign up and have their ERP charges deducted automatically at the end of the month. Sir, in fact this was one of the options looked at when designing the ERP system and designing the in-vehicle unit. But the feedback was a very negative one, because what this means is that there will be a record kept of where you were at each time of the day for the whole month. Many thought this was an intrusion of the privacy of the individual. And in view of the very negative feedback, LTA decided not to adopt this system. I would imagine that the objections will still prevail today if we are to propose it. So, let us look for other solutions instead.


    I agree with the LTA and am one of those who oppose monthly billing.
    He who hesitates is lost!

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    i agree with contrarian in that there's too much risk in a sudden maneuver to the
    road shoulder. i mean, it's alright of you remember early on and you're carefully
    making way to the shoulder to put in the cashcard. the most common scenario
    however is the sight of the gantry triggering the impulse to insert the cashcard,
    and by then, it's most likely too late.

    the IU is bulky due to the display and an internal battery. otherwise, it's quite
    flat. however, even if they redesign into 2 parts as the TS suggested, i think
    that thieves will still break in, knowing that more people will leave their
    cashcards in. though this time, it will be worse as they'll most likely pry open
    the box or the seat to get at the thing..

    anyway, the system in the UK is not ideal, especially since you can avoid the
    cameras by tailgating (common here) or switching lanes at the right time.
    also, by paying later, humans being forgetful will forget to pay and
    subsequently be fined for that.

    however, riders there and in sweden have it good since motorcycles are
    exempt from these 'congestion taxes' (which is what ERP is supposed to be).

    i think that this should be the adopted solution. no erp for bikes, hence no
    need for an IU. since, logically, motorcycles hardly contribute to congestion
    by virtue of our small size and the ability to lanesplit.

    my $0.02.
    mods done:
    powerplant device, fuel injector venturis,
    underseat cylindrical air filter, bassy stock cans,
    super-sensitive in-built gyroscope, inertia-based accelerometer,
    streamlined panniers (zero drag),
    taped up wires, exposed grounding wires,
    TBC mounted, custom tire pressures.

    litre bikes watch out!

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    and when ya lane split, they will catch ya for reckless riding....
    All of us has a price.....If not today, maybe tomorrow.

    To be seen : Stand up

    To be heard : Speak up

    To be appreciated : Shut da F*CK up

     

     
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    seriously, how many people have been summoned for lane splitting? i think the
    TP understand that this is an advantage for us riders and ignore this most of
    the time. i mean, i'm sure some of us have experiences of riding past a TP WRX
    stuck in a t-jam, and getting away with it. i have, twice. it should be fine as
    long as it's not recklessly done.

    anyway, back to the topic. i think bikes should be exempt from ERP. that would
    really kill a lot of birds with one stone, inclusive of the need to suddenly insert
    the cashcard..
    mods done:
    powerplant device, fuel injector venturis,
    underseat cylindrical air filter, bassy stock cans,
    super-sensitive in-built gyroscope, inertia-based accelerometer,
    streamlined panniers (zero drag),
    taped up wires, exposed grounding wires,
    TBC mounted, custom tire pressures.

    litre bikes watch out!

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    Quote Originally Posted by contrarian View Post
    Fine, all of you, listen to your former minister answer this question:

    ---
    Budget debate for Ministry for Transport -- ERP for Motorcycles
    Fri, Mar 12, 2004
    Sir, the current cash card reader on motorcycle is big and bulky and openly subjected to theft of cash card. Many motorcyclists, myself included, as I declare here, are known to have lost many cash cards when they forget to take it out from the reader, after they have parked the motorcycle. ...
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ERP for Motorcycles


    Mr Steve Chia Kiah Hong (Non-Constituency Member): Sir, the current cash card reader on motorcycle is big and bulky and openly subjected to theft of cash card. Many motorcyclists, myself included, as I declare here, are known to have lost many cash cards when they forget to take it out from the reader, after they have parked the motorcycle. Not everyone is born with the talent of good memory and habit of checking for our cash cards before leaving our machine. Bikers should not be financially penalised with loss because of the design system issue or problem. The ERP reader has been in place for almost 10 years since the start of the road pricing. It is high time an alternative to the cash card reader be considered and implemented for motorists to alleviate this problem of stolen cash cards in motorcycles and also smashed windscreens in cars.



    My suggestion is for LTA to consider the setting up of a system whereby the motorists, whether car drivers or motorcyclists, can sign up for a monthly billing and Giro deduction system. Under such a system, the card reader records the different entries under different ERP gantries and LTA can bill the registered motorists electronically at month-end and receive payment via Giro automatically. I believe this is not a very high-tech nor expensive system and it will greatly reduce the inconvenience that road users have to bear, especially when they forget to insert the card, top up the cash card, hide or lose their cash card or stolen through windscreen breakage. This will also discourage petty theft as there is less opportunity to tempt the thief into stealing and smashing windows for that cash card. I hope the Minister will at least agree to look into this idea before giving his objection.




    Mr Yeo Cheow Tong: . . . . . Mr Steve Chia mentioned about the poor design of the motorcycle IU. I agree with Mr Chia that the present In-vehicle Unit (IU) for motorcycles is not really ideal. But the key constraint that we have to bear in mind is that the IU has to be mounted in front of the vehicle to allow it to communicate with the ERP gantry, and to enable the motorist to view the value of his Cashcard. This applies to both cars and motorcycles. I think the problem is, unlike cars, for motorcycles it is very difficult to place the IU in a position where it can be locked and concealed because the motorcycle is a very open one.



    The good news I have for Mr Chia is that LTA is now looking into a new generation IU that would have improved features to reduce the incidence of Cashcard theft. In the meantime, we have to continue to remind motorists to avoid the risk of losing their Cashcard by remembering to remove it from their IUs when they lock up their vehicles.



    He also suggested a system where the motorist can sign up and have their ERP charges deducted automatically at the end of the month. Sir, in fact this was one of the options looked at when designing the ERP system and designing the in-vehicle unit. But the feedback was a very negative one, because what this means is that there will be a record kept of where you were at each time of the day for the whole month. Many thought this was an intrusion of the privacy of the individual. And in view of the very negative feedback, LTA decided not to adopt this system. I would imagine that the objections will still prevail today if we are to propose it. So, let us look for other solutions instead.


    I agree with the LTA and am one of those who oppose monthly billing.
    intrusion of privacy? i have a few questions tho..

    then those who went thru the ERP gantry without cashcards in their IU? they sure have a RECORD of what time/when/which gantry they went thru.
    isnt this intrusion of privacy as well?

    and how about the summons?
    summons also contain where/what time u made the offence.
    isnt this intrusion of privacy as well?
    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by xiaoxiao View Post
    intrusion of privacy? i have a few questions tho..

    then those who went thru the ERP gantry without cashcards in their IU? they sure have a RECORD of what time/when/which gantry they went thru.
    isnt this intrusion of privacy as well?

    and how about the summons?
    summons also contain where/what time u made the offence.
    isnt this intrusion of privacy as well?
    Look at the ERP gantry. There are two parts - the transponder gantry and then the camera gantry. The transponder gantry will deduct and record the IU number of those whose signal shows insufficient value. The camera gantry will record pictures of passing vehicles where the IU has failed to transpond. You can save yourself this by paying at the point of collection with enough value in the cashcard in the IU.

    Secondly, complete records of your movement are not listed and sent to your home monthly. Like the ez-link card, although it can tell you what the last few transactions were, the records are not listed and sent to your home.
    He who hesitates is lost!

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    wat i know is, the gantry can list out on the LTA side pc these infos.

    1) Bike license plate
    2) Which gantry / time and date
    3) Cashcard amount left (sufficient or insufficient amt deosnt matter) / and cashcard serial number

    Those counter people at LTA already have access to these infos. So, If really someone wanted to track your movements, rather easy even now.


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    seriously, i dun see y is it so difficult to insert ur cashcard way before the gantry. Let's say you know that you are going on the expressway, if it's @ the peak hours and you know that your route would pass by gantry, just put in at the start..

    If you're talking about a last min decision to turn into ERP road, say CBD, i'm sure you can find a place to stop on normal road (not Eway) to put in cashcard.

    All boils down to your planning and anticipation, and remembering to remove the card after use
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    1. what is lane splitting?

    2. i did get a fine from a tp before for changeing lane without signer. is this lane splitting? i forget how many demrit was it.

    3. to anyone always talking about "pre-plan" your route issue. PLEASE understand that human will have error. u and me are all human. the most common error is at the 6pm-8pm becos certain gantry only.

    4. I have been searching in lta site and motoring site, i have the ERP gantry time and location and price list. but 6pm-8pm is not include in the pdf. it is not outdated info base on the price list. THIS is a "sign" that it is easily forgotten too. you and me and everyone on the earth is human. human will never be perfect. that is a fact. human do forget sometime, that is a fact.


    let hope the solution will come asap - not saying mr perfect will have no problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mi5trooper View Post
    1. what is lane splitting?

    3. to anyone always talking about "pre-plan" your route issue. PLEASE understand that human will have error. u and me are all human. the most common error is at the 6pm-8pm becos certain gantry only.

    yes, to err is human. well then, pay for error. simple.

    cheers!
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkaiser View Post
    seriously, i dun see y is it so difficult to insert ur cashcard way before the gantry. Let's say you know that you are going on the expressway, if it's @ the peak hours and you know that your route would pass by gantry, just put in at the start..

    If you're talking about a last min decision to turn into ERP road, say CBD, i'm sure you can find a place to stop on normal road (not Eway) to put in cashcard.

    All boils down to your planning and anticipation, and remembering to remove the card after use
    i agree with you. if in doubt, always err on the safe side. insert the cashcard and if not used at all, just remove it after that. in cases where you really forget then boh bian, pay lor.

    cheers!
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    maybe they should set a sign board like ERP OPERATION 400metre ahead please insert cashcard like those in the expressway stating accidents ahead slow down
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