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Thread: How To Prevent Rear Wheel Skid

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    Squirtle
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    Lightbulb How To Prevent Rear Wheel Skid



    Hi all,

    Any experienced riders willing to share how to prevent fishtailing especially during wet surface conditions?
    ~ Women are greedy, they want all things from one man.
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    Don't use rear brake. Confirm rear wheel won't skid.

    What I do is use front brake then rear brake, depressing the rear brake slowly.
    Motorcyclist are the nicest people on the road, try not to kill us.

     

     
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    front/back brake 60/40 or 70/30 for bikes
    front/back brake 40/60 or 30/70 for scooters

    ratio diff depends on brake setup and weight setup.

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    I've noticed that sometimes when using the front brake or slowing down before a turn, your body tends to move forward a little due to the drop in speed, making your right foot inadvertently depress the rear brake a little. My bike skidded while taking a bend recently because of this. I only realised I was pressing on the rear brake when the back wheel started to skid.

    You might want to use even less of the rear brake than you use currently because what I've described above tends to happen when braking as well, so you end up depressing the rear brake a bit more than you think you are.

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    brake early then no problem alr hahahaha
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    front 60 back 40

    or front 70 back 30

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    70/30 or 60/40 or 50/50..

    i seriously WONDER how do you guys measure by that.. you guys got put pressure gauge on your brake lever/pedal to tell you how much % are you guys braking?

    seriously, just go out and ride more to learn how your bike handles on different conditions. with much mileage clocked on your ride, you will know how to react when faced with different situations.

    just remember, you scrub speed/stop using your front brakes. your rear is only for scrubbing off speed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirtle View Post
    Hi all,

    Any experienced riders willing to share how to prevent fishtailing especially during wet surface conditions?
    my frz, even F1 racer oso will fishtailing on wet road. that means dont ride fast....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirtle View Post
    Hi all,

    Any experienced riders willing to share how to prevent fishtailing especially during wet surface conditions?
    Better tyres. Good brake pads. Travel slower. Avoid road paint. Do not lean too much when turning. Practice rear jam brake. ( Go for a half day defensive course at bbdc/ssdc)

    My ta200 fishtails quite abit. My steed 400 never did. Prob due to the weight.
    Dragstar 400 classic & Zx6r

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirtle View Post
    Hi all,

    Any experienced riders willing to share how to prevent fishtailing especially during wet surface conditions?
    fishtailing,I suspect cannot be remove altogether, it can only be reduce and control.

    as what Hydher mention , go to SSDC or for that matter any DC to learn and practice fishtail under control, so that you can experience what it's like and then practice on your bike as each bike setup is different.

    Do practice and when it's relatively safe to do so, tries it on your own bike under various condition , with luggage pillion , low speed , high speed, etc, it could seriously save lives and injuries

    as for wet ground fishtailing I will , instinctively release the brakes , counter steer , reduce gear and increase throttle slightly then close or play with the throttle slightly to gain rear traction you will feel a slight jerk then , do intermittent braking then stop one side , take out lighter and ciggy and thank G_d.

    ride safe everyone.

    Last edited by ChaoPuzzy1968; 26-07-2011 at 09:13 AM.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirtle View Post
    Hi all,

    Any experienced riders willing to share how to prevent fishtailing especially during wet surface conditions?
    1. Do not jam your rear brakes nor apply forcefully during cornering
    2. Apply throttle smoothly through cornering for good tyre bite
    3. Use good suitable tyres

    Do the above and you will be able to eliminate fishtailing 99.9%

     

     
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    Thanks for this thread I really wondered about this too... <<<< sorry am basically a new rider

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    Quote Originally Posted by aRcHeR View Post
    70/30 or 60/40 or 50/50..

    i seriously WONDER how do you guys measure by that.. you guys got put pressure gauge on your brake lever/pedal to tell you how much % are you guys braking?

    seriously, just go out and ride more to learn how your bike handles on different conditions. with much mileage clocked on your ride, you will know how to react when faced with different situations.

    just remember, you scrub speed/stop using your front brakes. your rear is only for scrubbing off speed.
    It's all by feeling of your machine. Best way as you mentioned, get more experience and ride more!

  14. #14
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    Just the other day, there was a car who jammed brake in front of me because a rider anyhow come out from under the bridge as it was raining. I stepped hard on my rear brakes about 50 front, 50 back. My rear wheel locked but nothing serious happened. Most of my accidents happened because my front wheel locked. At least rear wheel lock still can control.
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    Simple: Release your ****ing rear brake.

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    Urh...

    Well, if your bike skids, it skids. There's no way to prevent it, but you can reduce its chance to skid by simply riding safe in the wet.

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    Dun even use the rear brake....

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    First of all its advisable if you ride with such a speed that if you apply brakes, rear wheel will not skid. But if you have desire to drive fast just remember one thing, apply rear brake mildly then the front one and after the bike is in controllable speed now you can stop bike using both brakes. This way chances of skiding a bike lowers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirtle View Post
    Hi all,

    Any experienced riders willing to share how to prevent fishtailing especially during wet surface conditions?
    Ans 1 - Don't use rear brake when not necessary. Use 100% front.
    Ans 2 - Press lightly and progressively. Use more of front brake.
    Ans 3 - Slide until you know how to control the sliding.. (That's what I did.. =D )

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    fishtail is better then front wheel skidding.. rear wheel skid just release rear brake, front wheel skid prepare for impact.

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    Rear wheel skids, counter steer.
    Front wheel skids, good luck.

     

     
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    Get a bike with ABS ;D

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    ABS nt exactly safer. you still will go down.
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    Another way is perhaps to avoid riding under wet conditions all together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aRcHeR View Post
    ABS nt exactly safer. you still will go down.
    Better than relying on your tapping the brakes, which might not happen in an emergency. Of course ABS sometimes have a temper, activating at the wrong time and place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jehuty View Post
    Better than relying on your tapping the brakes, which might not happen in an emergency. Of course ABS sometimes have a temper, activating at the wrong time and place.
    i trust myself more than ABS.

    different situations calls for different reactions.

    human intervention is always faster and more reliable, this said, has to come with road experiences.

    however with ABS in the way, you might not be able to avoid a fall which is totally avoidable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Naked1 View Post
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    Let make clear :Skid not equal to slide.
    Skid happens when tyre's Grip is gone...slippery road, bad tyre, out balance due to wrong riding posture+ too fast.
    SO to prevent it, let get rid of the above points: SLow on wet/oil/slippery road, Good tyre and correct ride style! Skid never occurs on straight line.

    Fish tailing happens when rear tyre have more power then the front one, or should say the rear tyre want to overtake the front one on the same bike, and it can occurs during straight line riding ,this won't couse fall unless you are dancing on your bike, just not to be panic and slow down.

    Slide is a professional act, like sheelie.....only those not so professional will fall.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by aRcHeR View Post
    i trust myself more than ABS.

    different situations calls for different reactions.

    human intervention is always faster and more reliable, this said, has to come with road experiences.

    however with ABS in the way, you might not be able to avoid a fall which is totally avoidable.
    Modern ABS systems can beat humans all the time. Many bike magazines have tested with professional test or race riders, with and without ABS, and even top riders stop in a shorter distance with ABS. Needless to say ordinary riders like us will benefit from ABS. In the past, yes, ABS was unreliable, sometimes too little braking, but right now there is no doubt that ABS beats even the most skilful riders.

    Here are some videos.

    Super 4 ABS vs non ABS - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9dH03SKWxw&NR=1

    Complete MCN CBR1000RR ABS vs non ABS, using ordinary rider, magazine test rider, and professional racer. - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6kO6ltk3a0

    Stopping distance from 80 mph (about 130 kmh)
    Amateur rider: non ABS 92m ABS 75m
    MCN test rider: non ABS 66m (nearly skid) ABS 61m
    Professional racer: non ABS 59m ABS 42m

    This is just one example, there are many tests that conclusively prove ABS' superiority. Not to say we must all ride ABS, I myself riding non ABS bike, but definitely for my next bike I will look out for ABS if I can afford it.

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    1) what SSDC: stupid school for driving carelessly teach u is wrong: they teach u to jam e brake bla bla bla ...

    u should use engine brake especially during rain ...

    1)change to super good tyres & brakes ...
    2)clean your disc so that it is free from oil & dirt
    3)don't ride onto paint
    4) put your left feet down to act as extra balance

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by konstandy View Post
    1) what SSDC: stupid school for driving carelessly teach u is wrong: they teach u to jam e brake bla bla bla ...

    u should use engine brake especially during rain ...

    1)change to super good tyres & brakes ...
    2)clean your disc so that it is free from oil & dirt
    3)don't ride onto paint
    4) put your left feet down to act as extra balance
    which part of ebrake they fail ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by konstandy View Post
    1) what SSDC: stupid school for driving carelessly teach u is wrong: they teach u to jam e brake bla bla bla ...

    u should use engine brake especially during rain ...

    1)change to super good tyres & brakes ...
    2)clean your disc so that it is free from oil & dirt
    3)don't ride onto paint
    4) put your left feet down to act as extra balance
    I don't wish to flame but IMO, putting your foot down while under heavy braking unsettles the bike. Do what the driving centre teaches, grip tank and look ahead. You don't see motogp riders put their foot down after a straight into an hairpin, do you?

     

     
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    Quote Originally Posted by konstandy View Post
    1) what SSDC: stupid school for driving carelessly teach u is wrong: they teach u to jam e brake bla bla bla ...

    u should use engine brake especially during rain ...

    1)change to super good tyres & brakes ...
    2)clean your disc so that it is free from oil & dirt
    3)don't ride onto paint
    4) put your left feet down to act as extra balance
    Bet you keep your right leg hanging after moving off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kraikk View Post
    Modern ABS systems can beat humans all the time. Many bike magazines have tested with professional test or race riders, with and without ABS, and even top riders stop in a shorter distance with ABS. Needless to say ordinary riders like us will benefit from ABS. In the past, yes, ABS was unreliable, sometimes too little braking, but right now there is no doubt that ABS beats even the most skilful riders.

    Here are some videos.

    Super 4 ABS vs non ABS - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9dH03SKWxw&NR=1

    Complete MCN CBR1000RR ABS vs non ABS, using ordinary rider, magazine test rider, and professional racer. - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6kO6ltk3a0

    Stopping distance from 80 mph (about 130 kmh)
    Amateur rider: non ABS 92m ABS 75m
    MCN test rider: non ABS 66m (nearly skid) ABS 61m
    Professional racer: non ABS 59m ABS 42m

    This is just one example, there are many tests that conclusively prove ABS' superiority. Not to say we must all ride ABS, I myself riding non ABS bike, but definitely for my next bike I will look out for ABS if I can afford it.
    clear track vs road with traffic, i rest my case.

    oh, did the test incorporate dropping of gears + engine braking or just the brakes ALONE?
    Quote Originally Posted by Naked1 View Post
    Stock is good...Choose your weapon wisely and enjoy it...you can have all the $$$$ to mod and in the end you can't make full use of it....

  34. #34
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    I felt we should be more forgiving towards the ABS technology. While some might find ABS is not useful for them as they find their riding skill is far more superior than the rest, I feel it will somehow benefit others who might ultilise its benefit. Afterall technology are susposed to be invented for the good and safety of the riders. Don't you think?

    Back to the TS question, I would say it takes a rider's instinct to prevent it. You just have to moderate the rear brake. But fret not if you can't master it. Not all of us are really that good either. I can say most knows how to speed better than braking. Usually I will just use the front brakes, thats all.

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    engine brake ?


    Ride Defensively; always.

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    Hi, guys. It's a bonus that with abs the braking distance maybe shorten, I said maybe. The real benefit of abs is that u are still able to steer without the wheels locked up putting us at the mercy of inertia pull. ^^

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skoder View Post
    Hi, guys. It's a bonus that with abs the braking distance maybe shorten, I said maybe. The real benefit of abs is that u are still able to steer without the wheels locked up putting us at the mercy of inertia pull. ^^
    True and this is used widely in car ABS advertising. ABS can indeed shorten stopping distance helpfully in scenarios like this:

    1) Rider approaching Toa Payoh Central junction thinking he can make the turn in front of McDonalds before the green arrow goes out

    2) Green arrow flashes for 2 seconds then stops (wtf!?)

    3) Rider brakes

    4) Suay suay it was raining and there's always a puddle of deep water before the turn itself due to road wear

    5) Panic brake on a Phantom or other less forgiving cruiser/classic bike, instant wheel lockup

    It takes a lot of self discipline in that scenario to realise that if you have locked up the front wheel and rear wheel braking will just make things worse, then rider needs to do 'manual traction control' and release the brakes momentarily to let the tyres grip, then apply steadily increasing braking pressure again.

    Because this 60-0 stop must be done in under 2 seconds before the bike and rider swoops into the junction, most riders will just cross fingers and let the wheel be locked. Unfortunately we are not driving on ice/snow and a locked wheel means the machine simply will not slow down probably resulting in the inevitable skid / crash situation.

    However ABS by preventing wheel lockup in the first place, will ensure braking force is always optimal and the bike will stop in the same or better distance than a car would (during a road test, a 2009 BMW 650cc ABS can brake as well as or better than a 2000 Honda Accord V6). The ABS system can modulate the braking force up to 50 times a second, whereas with 'manual traction control' like in my personal experience above, you only got one chance to get it right in those two hair raising seconds.



    Video credits - @Metal_Heart for sharing with BSMR forums

    Regardless of rider skill, it's prudent then to identify hazardous road conditions, slow down beforehand, and prevent the accident situation in the first place. Most bikes on the market don't have ABS or advanced traction control unless you can afford the latest 2A or class 2 bike.

    The riders at risk on the road today are commuters and 2B riders who have to make do with 'fighter pilot' instincts and be totally aware of vehicle dynamics and road conditions. In this case knowing how ABS works and how it highlights the danger of wheel lockup... may be a very useful survival tip on the road for both newbies and lao jiaos alike. It's never too old to learn new stuff on two wheels.

  38. #38
    iproapps
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    wow tnx for the video, i didnt know ABS is really useful

  39. #39
    FirmanWahab
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    Just go slower.

  40. #40
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    Slow & steady is always good advise. Not just speed discipline, but smooth throttle control as well. Driving smoothly gives better control and prevents loss of traction in any condition, especially important when hurrying in the wet.

    Thankfully most Singaporean riders & drivers are excessively cautious in the rain, which is a good thing. However, watch out for sudden panic stops for seemingly no reason. Don't get impatient, overtake smoothly

    The majority of bike ownership incidents involve dropping the bike at low speeds, ironically.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by kinwei View Post
    I felt we should be more forgiving towards the ABS technology. While some might find ABS is not useful for them as they find their riding skill is far more superior than the rest, I feel it will somehow benefit others who might ultilise its benefit. Afterall technology are susposed to be invented for the good and safety of the riders. Don't you think?

    +1

    Technological driver/rider aids should be welcomed, not shunned. We should embrace it.
    If you already think you're good without ABS or even TC, then you'll be even better with them

    Don't adopt a backwards puritanical stance abt tech overshadowing your leet "skills" or "driving/riding experience". It's like a fighter pilot harping on abt the good old days of propeller planes. Technology moves on. He'll get left behind or shot down.

    Not many years from now, all our bikes will come w TC and ABS as standard. Looking forward to it.

     

     
  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeusExMachina View Post
    +1

    Technological driver/rider aids should be welcomed, not shunned. We should embrace it.
    If you already think you're good without ABS or even TC, then you'll be even better with them

    Don't adopt a backwards puritanical stance abt tech overshadowing your leet "skills" or "driving/riding experience". It's like a fighter pilot harping on abt the good old days of propeller planes. Technology moves on. He'll get left behind or shot down.

    Not many years from now, all our bikes will come w TC and ABS as standard. Looking forward to it.
    Well said. +1

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeusExMachina View Post
    +1

    Technological driver/rider aids should be welcomed, not shunned. We should embrace it.
    If you already think you're good without ABS or even TC, then you'll be even better with them

    Don't adopt a backwards puritanical stance abt tech overshadowing your leet "skills" or "driving/riding experience". It's like a fighter pilot harping on abt the good old days of propeller planes. Technology moves on. He'll get left behind or shot down.

    Not many years from now, all our bikes will come w TC and ABS as standard. Looking forward to it.
    Well said. +1

  44. #44
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    remove the rear wheel
    Bah-weep-Graaaaagnah wheep ni ni bong.

  45. #45
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    Can, becomes like this:




  46. #46
    velocity325
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    Quote Originally Posted by haoKR View Post
    engine brake ?
    downshift from gear six to gear one then throw clutch when you're travelling on the ecp at 145km/h.. joking!!

    downshift gear by gear and slowly release clutch..then you'll hear a "eeeerrrhhhhh".. that would alert drivers that there;s something coming past them..

  47. #47
    [c]arbine
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    do not clutch in when applying rear brake
    --- A twist of the wrist ---

  48. #48
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    Yep, connecting the engine to the drive wheel somehow makes it have more rotational inertia, giving less tendency for the wheel to lock. Just be careful if your bike is a 4 stroke because some (choppers especially) have very strong engine braking. Which is as good as using the rear brake. Engine braking can cause loss of control in the wet too if applied wrongly.

    Best defense is to smooth out one's driving line to such a point that every maneuver is made as gently as possible so as not to upset the bike's balance and maximise traction over bad road surfaces. This is taught in Keith Code's Twist of the Wrist Vol. 2 DVD.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeusExMachina View Post
    +1

    Technological driver/rider aids should be welcomed, not shunned. We should embrace it.
    If you already think you're good without ABS or even TC, then you'll be even better with them

    Don't adopt a backwards puritanical stance abt tech overshadowing your leet "skills" or "driving/riding experience". It's like a fighter pilot harping on abt the good old days of propeller planes. Technology moves on. He'll get left behind or shot down.

    Not many years from now, all our bikes will come w TC and ABS as standard. Looking forward to it.
    ABS vs non ABS, the difference is obvious


    Click image for larger version. 

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  50. #50
    [c]arbine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandora's Kitten :3 View Post
    Yep, connecting the engine to the drive wheel somehow makes it have more rotational inertia, giving less tendency for the wheel to lock. Just be careful if your bike is a 4 stroke because some (choppers especially) have very strong engine braking. Which is as good as using the rear brake. Engine braking can cause loss of control in the wet too if applied wrongly.

    Best defense is to smooth out one's driving line to such a point that every maneuver is made as gently as possible so as not to upset the bike's balance and maximise traction over bad road surfaces. This is taught in Keith Code's Twist of the Wrist Vol. 2 DVD.
    blip.......
    --- A twist of the wrist ---

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