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Thread: Recreational Running

  1. #51
    Tanarthur
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    Seems like very complicated...

    Anyway, the 30mins is due to the route I took... I can go on longer but I choose not to... I set a limit for myself as I don't want my knees to give way... I doing it as recreational so if I push too hard, won't be fun anymore...
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  2. #52
    mechwira
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanarthur View Post
    Seems like very complicated...

    Anyway, the 30mins is due to the route I took... I can go on longer but I choose not to... I set a limit for myself as I don't want my knees to give way... I doing it as recreational so if I push too hard, won't be fun anymore...
    perfectly understandable.

    for weight management only, apparently the recommended amount is total of 150mins per week in the 60-70 zone. and this 150 mins is cumulative, meaning its the same if you do 5 days of 30mins each, or 5 x 20mins and 2 x 25mins, or 3 x 50mins; and it doesnt matter what exercise you do, whether running or treadmill or cycling. so long you clock total 150mins per week in the 60-70 zone.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

     

     
  3. #53
    ticks
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    Hi mechwira. How do u set a certain measurable bpm for a certain age. I understand for eg I'm 26 so my max heart rate should be around 220-26=194. So by saying 60-70% is that 70% of 194bpm?

    Btw after changing to no more heel strike, it's much nicer to run. Thanks!
    Ride fast..ride safe..don't crash...

  4. #54
    mechwira
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    Quote Originally Posted by ticks View Post
    Hi mechwira. How do u set a certain measurable bpm for a certain age. I understand for eg I'm 26 so my max heart rate should be around 220-26=194. So by saying 60-70% is that 70% of 194bpm?

    Btw after changing to no more heel strike, it's much nicer to run. Thanks!
    thats right, set your lower limit to 60% of 194 and upper limit at 70% of 194. a disclaimer is that all the formula are only estimates and different people of same age will have slightly different MHR. so your actual % might be a little bit off from the calculation. but generally its about right, and if you maintain 60-70 you find you are not panting, its about correct.

    and yeah i also feel like a completely different runner ever since i converted to mid-foot or fore-foot strike

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

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    Tanarthur
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    Every run I go sure pant... So if that's the case, maybe I am going too fast? Average speed is 6.15min/km...
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  6. #56
    mechwira
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanarthur View Post
    Every run I go sure pant... So if that's the case, maybe I am going too fast? Average speed is 6.15min/km...
    you cannot gauge whether your pace is too high based on your actual speed. a seasoned marathoner or triathlete can probably go below 6 min/km and still breathe normally.

    the first method to tell whether your pace is too high is heart rate which i explained. you cannot exceed 70%. if you think its still too high, target 65%.

    the second method is the "talk test". basically once you're well into your run, try to talk out loud and see whether you can:

    1)Speak a full sentence.
    2)Short phrase of a few words only.
    3)Cannot talk, breathing too hard. At most just one word.

    if your pace is correct, it should be between 1 and 2. If your talk test is 3, definitely too fast. 2 should correspond to a heart rate of 70%, whereas 1 is about heart rate of 60% and below.

    its important that your focus is not how far you manage to run, but how much time you spend running. 30 to 40 mins of 60-70, dun care wat distance you manage to cover. and when you finish, your breathing should immediately become normal, there should be no panting recovery time. dun worry if you find it 'slow' or 'no kick', thats precisely what its supposed to be.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

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    If that's the case, since I am still figuring out my HRM. I shall use the "talk test". Currently is between 1and 2. Maybe should go a bit slower...
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  8. #58
    ticks
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    What happens if someone were to run at 80% max bpm. Any adverse effects?
    Ride fast..ride safe..don't crash...

  9. #59
    mechwira
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    Quote Originally Posted by ticks View Post
    What happens if someone were to run at 80% max bpm. Any adverse effects?
    there are no adverse effects, but your targeted zone determines exactly what you achieve out of the training.

    regular long runs at 60-70 trains stamina and burns fat. you will find that you slim down and you have the stamina to go further and further.

    70-80 is purely building pace for middle distance, like 5km. you will not burn as much fat, nor will you improve your pace. frankly this rate is "neither here nor there" kind of benefit; not harmful but neither is it useful unless you just include this in a weekly mix purely to get used to race pace. this should be your heart rate when doing ippt 2.4km. but if you only do this pace 3 or 4 times a week at 3km each for ippt training, honestly i found it completely useless.

    you go at above 80, quite frankly the human body and heart cannot sustain for long. this is only short distance. and if you try hit past 90, if you can last 1 minute either you're damn good or your mhr calculation is off. but interval training at where you hit high 80+ to low 90+ in about 300m repetitions build your body's maximum ability. this is what improves your 2.4km timing but you really need to push it high; if after interval training you dun feel like you are going to drop dead, you didn push high enough.

    for just fat burning, best is just 60-70 for total 150mins a week. for ippt 2.4km training, i suggest 2 x 70-80 over a 3km distance and 2 x interval training per week. and if you're training for half-marathon and above, apparently you should do 2 of each every week, on the advise of a friend.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

  10. #60
    MR BIKER
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    No wonder you are a wira (warrior), but I think you must change to wiraman. Not only you know much about bike but also about human endurance. i was a frequent jogger with 3 finished marathon and 2 half. trained myself like crazy and best i had for a marathon was 4hr 45 minutes. but what happened was i kept jogging and now at a tender age of 50, i am finally feeling the effects of my years pounding the streets.
    i wore the proper shoes and attire. but what i should have considered also in my training my genes and my types of training. i should have known my mother's side, she got osteoarthritis easily. my steps training going up 10 floors and down using staircase surely did not help my body.
    My 2 cent advice. RUNNING is addictive. but know your limitation early on

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    Tanarthur
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    I think I shall go and figure out how my HRM works ASAP.....
    I AM BACK!!!!!

     

     
  12. #62
    mechwira
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    Quote Originally Posted by MR BIKER View Post
    No wonder you are a wira (warrior), but I think you must change to wiraman. Not only you know much about bike but also about human endurance. i was a frequent jogger with 3 finished marathon and 2 half. trained myself like crazy and best i had for a marathon was 4hr 45 minutes. but what happened was i kept jogging and now at a tender age of 50, i am finally feeling the effects of my years pounding the streets.
    i wore the proper shoes and attire. but what i should have considered also in my training my genes and my types of training. i should have known my mother's side, she got osteoarthritis easily. my steps training going up 10 floors and down using staircase surely did not help my body.
    My 2 cent advice. RUNNING is addictive. but know your limitation early on
    thanks for the compliments, i'm just someone who likes to read a lot and practice what i read whenever i become interested in something. so ten years ago when i started riding i also started reading a lot about bikes and practiced whatever i read. so 3 months ago i picked up running and i also end up reading everything i could find about running, and try out watever i read.

    you're right, running is addictive, but the minute any sign of injury crops up, you should immediately stop to analyse the injury and figure out what to change, because if you change nothing or worse do more of the same then the injury will just keep getting worse. bones and joints do not become stronger, only muscles become stronger.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

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    Tanarthur
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    Finally knows how my HRM works. So now my 65-75% is between 119-138. So when I set my HRM max heart rate, I set it at 138 or? And when I monitor, I will do so after maybe 5mins and every 5mins since "Runkeeper" update me every 5 mins when I should reached "the target zone". So I shall look at my average heart beat, current heart beat or maximum heart beat? Thanks. Novice here...
    I AM BACK!!!!!

  14. #64
    mechwira
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanarthur View Post
    Finally knows how my HRM works. So now my 65-75% is between 119-138. So when I set my HRM max heart rate, I set it at 138 or? And when I monitor, I will do so after maybe 5mins and every 5mins since "Runkeeper" update me every 5 mins when I should reached "the target zone". So I shall look at my average heart beat, current heart beat or maximum heart beat? Thanks. Novice here...
    dun quite get your description of how your hrm works, but definitely you want to be looking at 'current heart beat'. you need to observe your current hear rate while you are running and slow your pace the minute it climbs above 138. if it can give an alarm beep when it exceeds 138, thats the most convenient. usually its about lowering your pace coz the heart rate climbs above; when you're jogging its unlikely to fall below 119.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

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    I read somewhere along the thread that you set your maximum heart beat to the level you want to achieved. Mine will beep when exceed. Thanks. Will experiment tmr...
    I AM BACK!!!!!

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    Tian3068
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanarthur View Post
    I read somewhere along the thread that you set your maximum heart beat to the level you want to achieved. Mine will beep when exceed. Thanks. Will experiment tmr...
    I used to set it to max heartbeat but don't be too ambitious as it can stress the heart unnecessarily.

    I try to make it 80% .. just to err on the safe side

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    mechwira
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    just to keep this thread going, i tot it'd be great if we could give personal reviews about various gear we use. some gears can be expensive and i always go online to read reviews before i commit to an expensive gear, especially if different brands carry the item.

    but to start, i tot i'd try writing about a simple, cheap, small gear: running visors.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

  18. #68
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    Personal Review: Running Visors

    I have and use two different brands of running visors:

    New Balance

    Price: ~$12
    Where: New Balance Store

    Nike

    Price: ~$22
    Where: Nike Store
    Note: I use the one labelled 'Unisex'; there is a similar looking model labelled 'Womens' which has a shorter 'beak' so read the label when you take it off the shelf.



    First, a bit of background. Obviously visors shield your eyes and upper half of your face from the sun. But i never tot of its secondary function: channel sweat away from your forehead so that it doesn run down to your eyes, a problem i had when running with sun shades. i actually considered using a head sweatband but tot it looked gay

    Performance and Comparison
    First of all, both of them do NOT effectively channel 100% of your sweat away from your eyes; i'd say they both successfully channel 70% of the sweat. not perfect, but enough to be very noticeable and now i never run my long and middle distance without them, regardless of weather. not short distance HIIT coz that one when sprinting i prefer my body to be as 'free' as possible.

    so the end result with both is the same, but they do it differently. the NB has a thicker headband and therefore holds more sweat than the Nike. the Nike uses a thinner Dri-Fit material for the headband and becomes completely soaked very quickly, and thats where 30% of your sweat 'escapes' and runs into your eyes. but then again, that dri-fit also absorbs sweat more quickly than the NB, and in the NB the 30% of the sweat 'escapes' because the headband does not absorb it quickly enough even though it can hold more sweat.

    Which would I recommend?
    Like i said, the end result in both is the same: 70% of sweat is channeled away but 30% escapes and runs down into your eyes. and for both, you need to run with your head slightly dipped so that the sweat is channeled down the 'beak' and then drips off the edge of the 'beak'. which is kind of cool coz u can see how much sweat would have run down into your eyes if you had not been wearing the visor. but the nike just wins it for me because its thinner material just makes it a little lighter and a little more airy. is it worth the extra $10 over the NB? considering the final price is only $22, i'd say yes.


    A final note: i want to show this Headsweats brand visor:

    the brand is supposed to be 'headsweats' but the manufacturer lets various other brands or events or organizations take this visor and put their own logo. you will see them with 'Newton' logo or 'Triathlon' logo, but they all spot the 'headsweats' logo at the side.

    Apparently marathoners and triathlete friends claim this is the one running visor that wicks away nearly 100% of your sweat. but it costs like $42 at stores and can only be found at specialty stores. i have never seen one at any store i've been to, but a fren is ordering one for me thru his lobang so maybe once i get it i'll share how well it performs.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

  19. #69
    Tian3068
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    i used to skimp on good running shoes but once you buy a $200 pair of running shoe you can feel the difference.

    its truly you pay for what you get. especially for running (impacting the knees), you want to get the best support cos no point saving the extra tens and then running into all sorts of lower limb injury.

    I bought the asics range (is it kayano?) and i felt it was worth every penny although heartpain at the cashier at first.

  20. #70
    keyxblade
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    Quote Originally Posted by mechwira View Post
    i have no doctor to share, but like i mentioned in my first post, i used to experience terrible knee pain and shin splints, and am now convinced that it was due to the overly bulky and over-cushioned SAF New Balance shoes circa 2001, coupled with my running style with those shoes. and mind you at that time i ran only 3k to 4k three times a week.

    so i'm suggesting it might be your shoe and your running style. what shoe may i ask? including in the past.

    but i only suggesting, i no way qualified to diagnose your condition. whether its the shoes or not, its also possible that your condition is aggravated over several years and by now need surgery or injection. then again, it might also be a minor and temporary condition that can be corrected with better shoes or better running style or leg strengthening exercises.

    but i can tell you that even now with what i believed to be improved running style and 'better' shoes, my joint pains are gone BUT i still cannot tackle steep downslopes. downslope is the one that damages the knees. and downslope running needs proper technique, which i am still trying to find. it takes me just one steep downslope with wrong technique and immediately i feel a discomfort in one or both knees.
    I been jogging for 6 months every week only once, as my shin hurts after the jog and it takes about 1 week to heal. any running shoe to recommend?

  21. #71
    ticks
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    Quote Originally Posted by keyxblade View Post
    I been jogging for 6 months every week only once, as my shin hurts after the jog and it takes about 1 week to heal. any running shoe to recommend?
    If your shin hurts its most probably down to your running style as I've discovered. Do u do heel strike when u run? Heel strike is probably the mother of all cause to shin splits. Lol. But after I changed to flat foot then I've no more shin splits d. Running style was covered in the earlier pages of the thread.
    Ride fast..ride safe..don't crash...

     

     
  22. #72
    vyruz
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    Personal Review: Merrell Vapor Glove

    Merrell's Vapor Glove is their most minimal running shoe. With 0mm heel drop and only 2mm cush, it is very minimal. I understand shoe shops in Singapore do not carry this particular model, which is why I had to buy online.



    Purchase details: S$130 delivered. Bought from eBay (US$79 + shipping). Size chosen based on http://shoefitr.com/ recommendation. Amazon also sells them, and you can get free shipping if you spend at least $125.

    Fit: I got the US 8.5 size based on shoefitr's recommendation and based on my US 9 size Merrell Bare Access 2 (which you can try on in Royal Sporting House). Fits perfectly. It is crazy light and very breathable.

    Performance: These things have taken me to a new level. I started with 7km runs on them, then 10km, then 15km and have done two training half-marathon sessions on them. No injury to speak of. Yes, my calves are sore, but that's fine by me since the soreness goes away after a day or so, and muscle soreness is so much more bearable than injury pain (e.g. shin splints). It is so counterintuitive. The more minimal the shoe, the better I've been able to keep running. Definitely this has a lot to do with the shoe forcing me to recalibrate my running style (less impacts, more efficient pace etc), but let's not forget that I'm only recalibrating because the shoe kinda forces me to do so. The shoe forces you to run in a more 'natural' way since any attempt at heel striking or landing sloppily will be punished immediately with pain (contrast this with cushioned shoes, which will dull the immediate pain of incorrect landing, but this ends up adding up into more serious pains and injuries, e.g. shin splints for me). So you end up with a much high cadence pace, lighter foot falls and a more 'springy' feeling run, more tired muscles, but little to no injury to hold you back or frustrate you.

    The sole is Vibram, which is amazingly durable despite the thinness. Contrast with Saucony's Virrata, which has a thicker sole but wears out SO much faster.

    They are so good I have already bought another pair (in the awesome colour scheme below), so that I'll have my replacement ready to go when the current one dies off.



    Disclaimer: I'd strongly suggest not moving immediately to these shoes if you're on a more traditional cushioned shoe at the moment. Take a more transitional shoe first - I used Merrell's Bare Access 2. You also have Merrell's Road Access, which is more minimal than the Bare Access but more cushioned than the Vapor Glove. Once you're up and going with a transitional shoe (0mm drop, minimal cush), and you've readjusted your running style, the Vapor Gloves will take you to new ground.

    Good luck fellow runners.
    Cry 'Havoc'.....and let slip the dogs of war

  23. #73
    mechwira
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    Quote Originally Posted by keyxblade View Post
    I been jogging for 6 months every week only once, as my shin hurts after the jog and it takes about 1 week to heal. any running shoe to recommend?
    Disclaimer: i am not an elite runner, or an expert, or a doctor. i only share wat i read and wat i practice and discover myself.

    first, like @ticks mentioned,you should focus on changing your running style. 'correct' shoes (as found by me and like-minded runners like ticks and vyruz) are supposed to complement and aid this 'correct' running style; any shoe i suggest will not by itself get rid of shin pain or knee pain, or 'suddenly' make you run with the 'correct' style.

    so wats the 'wrong' method of running? "Heel Striking":

    1) when your foot lands, the heel contacts the ground first.
    2) your foot lands in front of your knee.

    Whats the 'correct' method? Please view the great video posted by vyruz at post #43 "Born to run coach Eric Orton". that vid explains way better than anything i can type.

    so what shoes are good at helping you run this correct method? i mentioned this earlier:
    a recent popular method is to choose based on whether your running is heel strike, mid foot strike or forefoot strike. conventional shoes are mostly 12mm heel drop, and for heel strikers. some are as high as 16mm, or can go lower to 8mm. if you want to try change your running to midfoot strike, find shoes with 4mm heel drop. any higher than 4mm, i find quite difficult to do midfoot strike. if you know you can naturally run with midfoot strike, go for 0mm drop. you can all the way to shoes labelled 'minimalist' but i dun recommend it unless you really know your strike pattern and what the minimalist shoes will do.
    shoes with 4mm drop include:

    Saucony Kinvara
    Saucony Mirage
    Skechers GoRun 2 and GoRun Ride
    Mizuno Wave Evo

    i personally used the Kinvara 4 when i first started my change, and it worked wonders. it costs like $150, but you can find the Kinvara 3 for <$100 at Key Powersports in IMM. minor difference. The Skechers also may be a good try coz they are deliberately designed to train you to develop a midfoot strike.

    Be warned: do not try shoes labelled 'minimalist' at this stage. these include:

    New Balance Minimus Zero
    Skechers GoBionic
    Vibram Fivefingers

    these are strictly for advanced runners well into forefoot strike. even @vyruz cautions against these shoes in your transition stage. i have the NB Minimus Zero purely for advanced forefoot strike training, and even after 4 months of changing and adapting to the 'correct' running, i still cannot use them for ippt 2.4km or any distance above 8km. but as running strike trainers they are perfect, AFTER i adapted.

    Good Luck
    Last edited by mechwira; 27-11-2013 at 04:44 PM.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

  24. #74
    mechwira
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    Personal Review: Saucony Kinvara 4



    Price: ~$150
    Where: Almost any store that carries Saucony. Royal Sporting House, etc.

    Comments:

    This is the shoe i bought and used 4 months ago when i first decided to transition into mid/forefoot strike. and it works great for anyone beginning your transition. it has a heel offset of 4mm, and being completely new, i could feel that it was low yet was not totally alien. plus a completely flat bottom outsole with no mid-gap, i could also feel that this was more flexible than conventional shoes i was used to previously, yet has a somewhat conventional cushion. soft ride.

    what it all means is that this is low and flexible enough for anyone attempting a mid/forefoot strike, yet retains enough cushion at the outsole and heel to be forgiving enough for when your running gait is not yet 'correct'. this will be your do-it-all transition shoe, from long distance >10k at steady casual pace, to a fast 5km, or ippt or even high pace interval sprinting.

    the upper is thin yet comfortable, and very breathable. i'm not so sure about going sockless in this though.


    Other similar shoes to consider (not tried any):
    Saucony Mirage (also 4mm drop but apparently with some pronation control)
    Skechers GoRun 2
    Skechers GoRun Ride
    New Balance M1010
    New Balance M3090
    Brooks PureFlow 2
    Brooks PureCadence 2
    Newton Energy
    Last edited by mechwira; 26-11-2013 at 11:32 PM.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

  25. #75
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    Personal Review: New Balance Minimus Zero



    Price: <$100 at New Balance Store (clearing stock pending revised 2014 model)

    Comments:

    this is a zero drop barefoot shoe. 0mm drop, 12mm sole, vibram outsole. anyone new to mid/forefoot strike need not apply. if you're new to barefoot shoes, the best way i can describe this one is a sock with a thin rubber slipper glued to the bottom.

    this is my first ever barefoot shoe. i wanted one purely for foot strike training, even if i find the shoe unsuitable for long distance or ippt. considering that most true barefoot shoes are only found at specialty stores or can only be bought online, this was exactly what i was looking for. the <$100 price tag sealed my decision at purchasing this shoe for my rotation.

    the best thing about this shoe is that its meant to be worn sockless, and feels absolutely great without socks. very light and airy. the sideways tongue flap also aids the sockless comfort; you really dont feel any shoe.

    when i first wore the shoe, i had already adapted to mid/forefoot strike after a month of using my transition kinvara. on my first ever run, i discovered how extreme barefoot shoes are. this forces me to do forefoot strike every single step; land anything close to a heel strike, and you will feel it. in fact initially it was too much: my usual cadence is 160/min (i believe mid/forefoot strike cadence shd be 170-180); on my first few runs i hit a cadence of 190/min. and had intense calf soreness for three days. and this was all after i adapted. but of coz, this is my first barefoot shoe.

    at the end of the day, if you're looking for a barefoot shoe readily found in local stores, this one is worth it especially with its stock clearance price tag. i donno wat the price tag will be when the revised 2014 model is launched, or what changes they will make. this is great as a foot strike trainer. i cant use it for anything else, but thats probably because my running is not yet 100% efficient and not the fault of the shoe. but it does highlight the fact that you can only use this shoe with 100% running efficiency.


    Other similar shoes to consider (not tried them myself):
    Mizuno Wave Universe
    New Balance Minimus Hi-Rez
    Skechers GoBionic
    Brooks PureDrift
    Vibram FiveFingers
    VivoBarefoot
    Merell Vapor Glove (read review by vyruz)

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

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    Queensway shopping centre is a good place to get running shoes for a good price


    go running lab if you need more advice as the sales specialist will put you on their treadmill and analyse how u run and give u shoe suggestions.... foc afaik

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    Personal Review: Hydration Solutions

    ever since i hit 10km. i decided it was not good to run for longer than an hour without hydrating myself on the move. up to 8k, which i complete in 45-50mins, i can tahan without drinking and drink after i'm done. then again i think gripping a generic bottle for longer than an hour is going to be tiring and annoying. so i'm sharing three hydration stuff i use personally.


    Product 1: Nathan Vapor Shot


    Capacity: 300ml
    Price: Bought $30+ online inc ship, could not find locally

    Pros:
    Strapped in your hand, you really dun feel this bottle at all. the grip and shape is also ergonomic. very smooth operation: pop open the nozzle, tilt your head back, squeeze water into mouth, tap it back closed and keep on running without breaking stride.

    Cons:
    1. 300ml? if your distance you only need 300ml of water, you can run without. but if you run 10k and above, this will run out before your legs.

    2. No pouch.



    Product 2: Nathan Quickdraw Plus


    Capacity: 600ml
    Price: $30+ in some local stores

    Pros:
    1. perfect capacity for 10-13k (at least for me).

    2. Pouch holds keys, cash or (small) phone.

    3. Best squeeze bottle. Ever. Dun bother comparing with generic nike/reebok squeeze bottles costing ~$10. plastic is very soft, super easy to squeeze. nozzle is high flow. end result: at more than 3/4 full, a good squeeze immediately shoots an entire mouthful of water into mouth, the kind that takes you two gulps. generic squeeze bottles usually take me two squeezes for one gulp.

    Cons:
    Pouch is not waterproof. made of flimsy looking mesh that will probably start tearing after a few months of regular use.


    Product 3: Ultimate Direction Scott Jurek Ultra Vest



    This is the interesting one. i recently went beyond 13k and my 600cc bottle was no longer enough, so i tried this. Most important: YOU MUST GET THE CORRECT FIT! this is not free size like camelbak. too tight and you cant strap the front buckles. too loose, and it doesn 'hug' your body, causing all sorts of unwanted movement and some users even report it sliding back until the top strap 'clotheslines' your neck.

    comes with 2 x 600ml bottles. rear is designed to hold 1.5L bladder and tube but is not included in purchase.

    i thought of hydration belts with 4 x 300ml bottles or 2 x 600ml bottles, but i just could not believe that a belt would be comfortable when running. so i considered camelbak vests, but the bladders will be a problem holding my preferred gatorade mix. so when i saw this vest, i thought it was perfect: 2 x 600ml bottles held in a vest! one for plain water and one for gatorade mix!

    i've done 15k in this. and yes, it is comfortable, assuming you get the right fit. it hugs my body, and you dun really feel the weight of the bottles. nor do the bottles interfere with your arm swing, unless you swing rotating sideways hugging your fists to your chest, which is not how it should be done anyway.

    the bottle pulls out smoothly, and goes back in easily with a tug of the pouch. the bottle has a nipple which you will need to know how to operate, but once you figure it is neither easy nor difficult, just different. overall i prefer Nathan's squeeze bottle.

    plenty of pockets, including a big one behind if you dun insert a bladder. keys, phone, nutrition, etc. perfect for hiking too. but none are waterproof including the ones supposed to be so. just your sweat will already make the pouches moist. use ziploc if needed.

    Advice: buy the similar 'Race' vest instead. see below.



    the difference? look carefully, the sides of the race vest is an adjustable strap and not a single non-adjustable piece like the ultra vest. this means less pockets but i think it makes a better fit.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

  28. #78
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    Btw how many of u guys here do frequent 10km runs? I've been to a few tcms and they all say 10km is too much of a stress if done frequently. Now I have to reduce my running distance cos I've got some knee issues. Zzz.
    Ride fast..ride safe..don't crash...

  29. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by ticks View Post
    Btw how many of u guys here do frequent 10km runs? I've been to a few tcms and they all say 10km is too much of a stress if done frequently. Now I have to reduce my running distance cos I've got some knee issues. Zzz.
    you can run 10km regularly, but like everything else it needs a transition.

    when i started out, i was going 7km for 6 days a week, only one rest day. when i hit 10km, i did it 3 times a week, another 3 days was either interval or fast 5k. now i hit 13-15k, i only do twice a week; another 2 fast 5k and another 2 interval. and i'm hitting my limit.

    my suggestion is, if you feel like regular 10k starts causing problems, do it twice a week first. after a few weeks, do it 3 times a week, and then more frequently if you feel like it, without increasing the distance. the rest of the days, limit yourself to 5k. or intervals. minimum 1 day rest per week.

    for me, because i want to keep increasing my distance (my new target is 2XU half-mara next march), then i'm limiting myself to only 2 long runs per week, increasing the distance by 1km every 2 weeks.

    you cannot both run regularly and at the same time increase the distance, especially if you hit 10k for the first time. either you maintain the same distance and slowly up the frequency, or reduce frequency and slowly up the distance.
    Last edited by mechwira; 02-12-2013 at 12:13 PM.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

  30. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by mechwira View Post
    you can run 10km regularly, but like everything else it needs a transition.

    when i started out, i was going 7km for 6 days a week, only one rest day. when i hit 10km, i did it 3 times a week, another 3 days was either interval or fast 5k. now i hit 13-15k, i only do twice a week; another 2 fast 5k and another 2 interval. and i'm hitting my limit.

    my suggestion is, if you feel like regular 10k starts causing problems, do it twice a week first. after a few weeks, do it 3 times a week, and then more frequently if you feel like it, without increasing the distance. the rest of the days, limit yourself to 5k. or intervals. minimum 1 day rest per week.

    for me, because i want to keep increasing my distance (my new target is 2XU half-mara next march), then i'm limiting myself to only 2 long runs per week, increasing the distance by 1km every 2 weeks.

    you cannot both run regularly and at the same time increase the distance, especially if you hit 10k for the first time. either you maintain the same distance and slowly up the frequency, or reduce frequency and slowly up the distance.
    Ooo. Thanks for the advice as always mechwira. There's a half marathon?? Haha. Might target that. Lol.
    Ride fast..ride safe..don't crash...

  31. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by mechwira View Post
    Personal Review: Hydration Solutions

    ever since i hit 10km. i decided it was not good to run for longer than an hour without hydrating myself on the move. up to 8k, which i complete in 45-50mins, i can tahan without drinking and drink after i'm done. then again i think gripping a generic bottle for longer than an hour is going to be tiring and annoying. so i'm sharing three hydration stuff i use personally.


    Product 1: Nathan Vapor Shot


    Capacity: 300ml
    Price: Bought $30+ online inc ship, could not find locally

    Pros:
    Strapped in your hand, you really dun feel this bottle at all. the grip and shape is also ergonomic. very smooth operation: pop open the nozzle, tilt your head back, squeeze water into mouth, tap it back closed and keep on running without breaking stride.

    Cons:
    1. 300ml? if your distance you only need 300ml of water, you can run without. but if you run 10k and above, this will run out before your legs.

    2. No pouch.
    Excellent review work, mechwira. I was at Velocity Novena last weekend and saw the Nathan Vapor Shot in Key Power Sports in Level 2. It's a new shop and seems to have some decent gear. Can't recall the price, but it'd be about S$50-60.
    Cry 'Havoc'.....and let slip the dogs of war

     

     
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    Product Review: Hydration and Gel

    Hydration - Fitletic (aka iFitness) 12oz Hydration Belt



    I bought it from Amazon for around S$50 (US$38 I think). Shipped for free because I spent more than the $125 threshold for free shipping to Singapore. Realized a little late that some local sport shops (like the ones in Nex Serangoon) sell them too.

    It has two 175ml bottles and a pocket that snugly fits an iPhone 5.

    The areas of the bottles that contact your back come with dots of high-grip rubber material. These seem to work very well. As long as I had the belt in the correct spot and tightened, I felt no bouncing.

    The bottles are easy to access and are kept secured by a formed pocket and an elasticated loop at the top. Easy to operate.

    I love this belt. The only downside is I have to be careful about water consumption for my weekend 21km run.

    Gel - MaxiFuel Viper Boost



    I bought this from a local T3 bike shop. S$3.90 per piece. Citrus flavour.

    I was hesitant about gels because some can result in an upset stomach. But for 21km runs, I was fast running out of easy fuel, so I took the plunge with this and am very happy with it. On my first attempt, I had one at kilometer 11 and realized that I had run out of fuel early. My other attempts were with two gels - one taken at around 10-11km, the second at around 17-18km. Everytime I had it, I immediately feel the energy. Last Saturday I was ready to call it a night at 17km, but changed my mind after having the gel, so it definitely works for me. Not cheap ($8 for the two I eat on a 21km run), but it is helping me increasing my distance so I don't mind.
    Cry 'Havoc'.....and let slip the dogs of war

  33. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by ticks View Post
    Btw how many of u guys here do frequent 10km runs? I've been to a few tcms and they all say 10km is too much of a stress if done frequently. Now I have to reduce my running distance cos I've got some knee issues. Zzz.
    I used to do 10km about 3 times a week. A rest day between each so that I didn't outrun my ability The easiest way to fit running into your schedule regularly is try to commute in some way by running. I am lucky to live about 6km from work, so I started running home a few times a week, then started doing loops home to increase to 10km.

    Now I do a long run on Saturday (at the moment 21km), so I have cut down the mileage for other days. I'll do at least one run-from-work 10km during the week, and do cycling for active recovery (e.g. keeping some level of activity going, so blood flows and muscles recover better).

    Speaking of mileage, it was fun increasing incrementally from 5km to 21km now, but I have to admit I'm not looking forward to increasing so much now. The runs are getting long and I am definitely too sore to run for the next day or two after. And the next 'big' milestone is another 21km away - the 42.195km of a marathon. I suppose I can work on pace instead of putting in even more LSD (long slow distance).

    At this stage, I see my progress and frankly I am astounded at marathon runners (I mean proper marathoners, not untrained take-selfies-all-the-way, basically walking the race types). I tell myself when I'm done with my 21km - "The marathon runners now basically start my run all over again and repeat the 21km but in the state I am in now". Incredible. Then there are ultra marathoners, who take distance to yet another level. I can't comprehend that in the same way that I can't comprehend the size of the universe.
    Cry 'Havoc'.....and let slip the dogs of war

  34. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by vyruz View Post
    Gel - MaxiFuel Viper Boost


    hey bro.... how do i know i 'need' fuel gel in my run? at what running distances should i start considering taking fuel gels?

    when my running distance was still 8k and below i never considered bringing water with me either, then i read that any exercise up to 1h should drink plain water and any exercise more than 1h should start taking isotonic or electrolyte water. i decided that if even plain water is not good enough for the body after 1h, then i better start bringing water when i hit 10k. now i realize i dun think i can complete my 13-15k without water, and mostly i pack gatorade mix.

    but fuel gel i still haven try.

    and you say the Vapor Shot is retailing ~$50 at Key Powersports? Whoa thats ex, especially when the 600ml QuickDraw Plus was only $30+. you sure its the vapor shot and not the similar but bigger 700ml Vapor Draw?

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

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    Not sure about taking gels for runs less than 20km. In my case, I can complete a olympic distance triathlon in a little over 3 hours with 1L of diluted (50%) gatorade during the bike leg and taking the sports drinks served along the run route whenever I feel thirsty.

    Gels tend to give that immediate boost, but also give a big flat feeling when it runs out. Maybe will start experimenting with a couple of gels for longer training sessions.
    Last edited by ulysses_sc; 02-12-2013 at 08:11 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mechwira View Post
    hey bro.... how do i know i 'need' fuel gel in my run? at what running distances should i start considering taking fuel gels?

    and you say the Vapor Shot is retailing ~$50 at Key Powersports? Whoa thats ex, especially when the 600ml QuickDraw Plus was only $30+. you sure its the vapor shot and not the similar but bigger 700ml Vapor Draw?
    I think it varies based on the individual's fitness, bro. I'm new to distance running so I think I needed the help earlier. I started taking the gel when I began doing 21km in one go. My first attempt was without it and I basically lost all motivation at around 17km. Just felt exhausted with no energy to go another 100m. I repeated my 21km attempts two more times without gels, and in all cases lost the will to continue around 17-18km.

    At this point, I had two choices: (i) try to fight this 'wall' and push harder so that my body adjusts and resorts to fat burning, or (ii) take the easier route of gels. I'm glad I went option (ii). It energized me enough to keep pushing and I think the morale boost of seeing higher mileage made it worthwhile.

    Oh and as I reply to ulysses below, I prefer not to have sweet drinks on my run, so for now I am separating my hydration (plain water) and fuel (gels).

    Quote Originally Posted by ulysses_sc View Post
    Not sure about taking gels for runs less than 20km. In my case, I can complete a olympic distance triathlon in a little over 3 hours with 1L of diluted (50%) gatorade during the bike leg and taking the sports drinks served along the run route whenever I feel thirsty.

    Gels tend to give that immediate boost, but also give a big flat feeling when it runs out. Maybe will start experimenting with a couple of gels for longer training sessions.
    I agree, but my threshold is a little lower. I wouldn't bother with gels myself if I was doing a run up to 18km. Personally, and in the fitness state I'm in now, 18km seems to present a tough wall to break through without proper fuelling.

    I suppose if your water contained sugars etc (100 plus, gatorate), you'd be fuelling regularly with that. I'm not a fan of sweet drinks on a run though. I found I got thirstier faster, and I definitely didn't like accidentally spilling the drink on me while running. So I carry plain ol' tap water in my hydration belt, and fuel in the form of gels. I'm hoping that as my training progresses, I can ease off the gels (maybe down to 1 per 21km run) but all good things take time.

    If you're finding yourself too tired to continue on in a long training session, I wouldn't hesitate giving gels a try. You may well end up in a caffeine/sugar crash once you get home, but you can bask in the glory of an improved/longer training session
    Cry 'Havoc'.....and let slip the dogs of war

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    I'm pleasantly surprised to see Maxifuel's recommended fuelling during a 21km is close to what I ended up doing in my last two 21km training runs. Pre-run, I have a banana an hour before - no need for gels because I'm at home/work and can easily access more 'natural' fuel.

    Cry 'Havoc'.....and let slip the dogs of war

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    Quote Originally Posted by vyruz View Post
    I'm pleasantly surprised to see Maxifuel's recommended fuelling during a 21km is close to what I ended up doing in my last two 21km training runs. Pre-run, I have a banana an hour before - no need for gels because I'm at home/work and can easily access more 'natural' fuel.
    That looks like some heavy stuff!

    I normally do a "brick" training on Saturday mornings. 30min before start - 1 cup of milo. Cycle for 50km (1.5 hours), consuming 1L of half diluted Gatorade. Then run 10km immediately after cycling, during which drink another 200cc of half-diluted Gatorade. Seems to work OK so far. However mornings are really cool, and I think that definitely impacts the "energy" consumption.

    Do you experience much difference between running in the mornings/nights vs daylight hours?
    Past: KDX200, LC4 400, LC4 620, GSXR750WR
    Present: CBR900RRY, Gas Gas EC250, XR250L, XR250RV, XR400 (motard-ed), NX650 Dominator

  39. #89
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    whoa. ok thanks for all the tips on fuel gel. i probably dun need it for now, and shd just look out for a possible wall once i penetrate 17km, which is not yet.

    the reason i use a gatorade mix (from powder sold in ntuc) is because i'm a salty sweater. i only recently found out there was such a thing when a fren commented about it when he touched my sweat soaked dri-fit tee after an 8k. i donno how he could tell, but after he told me, i realized i've always been that way i just didn know there was such a thing. even before i started my recent serious running, i have always found that whenever i work out with profuse sweating for longer than 30mins, i would feel a very deep sense of thirst that would not go away with plain water, i felt satisfied only after a chugging a bottle of isotonic immediately after the workout. hence my current reliance on gatorade mix on runs above 10k.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

  40. #90
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    i was at JCube Royal Sporting House and saw them selling the Merell Bare Access (8mm cushion zero drop) for 129 and the Merell Road Glove (4mm cushion zero drop) for 149.

    holding the road glove glove in my hands, it was almost identical to my NB Minimus Zero, especially since they both have vibram outsole with the same thickness. maybe the minimus zero has a softer upper.

    another option for people ready to wear barefoot shoes, but be sure you're ready. and if the vapor glove is even more minimal, i dun think i can handle it.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

  41. #91
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    Singapore marathon 'winner' admits he cheated

    i've always known there are people who take part in marathons or 10ks or other events, jog 3-5k and walk the rest of the way and then very proudly wear the finisher tee.

    but people like this absolutely take the cake. he actually says going home half way is 'giving up', yet considers taking shortcuts and hitching rides as a valid way of 'finishing' and earning the finisher tee. people actually get a kick out of wearing that finisher tee by taking shortcuts and hitching rides to the finish line?

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

     

     
  42. #92
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    When I run a marathon next time I'll make sure I change my finisher tee to 42.196 km. .001 km also more distance than all the rest what right? Lol
    Ride fast..ride safe..don't crash...

  43. #93
    vyruz
    : por fuera of the box
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    Quote Originally Posted by mechwira View Post
    Singapore marathon 'winner' admits he cheated

    i've always known there are people who take part in marathons or 10ks or other events, jog 3-5k and walk the rest of the way and then very proudly wear the finisher tee.

    but people like this absolutely take the cake. he actually says going home half way is 'giving up', yet considers taking shortcuts and hitching rides as a valid way of 'finishing' and earning the finisher tee. people actually get a kick out of wearing that finisher tee by taking shortcuts and hitching rides to the finish line?
    That guy is hilarious.

    I'd like to see finisher tees and gift packs axed. Want a tee, go buy one. Want little packs of bottles/gels/caps etc, go buy them. Want to finish a race and feel good about your accomplishment, do it for that reason alone. Not for a stupid little goodie bag or a finisher tee. Of course I say this knowing it will never work. Without the trinkets waiting in little bags at the end of the race, and the tangible products to use to show everyone else what a wonderful thing they did over the weekend, the number of registrations will plummet and the event would not be profitable.

    But I have to say it's funny reading how upset people got over this. The only reason I'd get upset is the delay/inconvenience he caused. I think more people are upset that he got the finisher tee without deserving it. These people strike me as people who ran just to get the finisher tee or whatever else tangible goodies you get at the end.

    Cry 'Havoc'.....and let slip the dogs of war

  44. #94
    ulysses_sc
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    Forget this guy. Not even worth discussing.

    Back to the topic. Anyone wants to shoot for the 2XU Compression run (21km) next March? Can run together to push each other on!
    Past: KDX200, LC4 400, LC4 620, GSXR750WR
    Present: CBR900RRY, Gas Gas EC250, XR250L, XR250RV, XR400 (motard-ed), NX650 Dominator

  45. #95
    ticks
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    I'm planning for the half marathon.
    Ride fast..ride safe..don't crash...

  46. #96
    mechwira
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    Quote Originally Posted by vyruz View Post

    But I have to say it's funny reading how upset people got over this. The only reason I'd get upset is the delay/inconvenience he caused.
    i've always been amused by the finisher tee poser brigade. until the 10k run i went and i realized how much their antics are inconveniencing serious participants.

    i was amazed at how many people started shoving and pushing their way to the front of the start line just before flag-off... only to run out of puff a measly 3km later and end up blocking people.

    the ultimate was a large group that stopped at the 5km water point to take a group selfie posing with the cups right at the table. i was shaking my head when a runner from behind shouted at them to get out of the way. the group went from laughing and giggling then suddenly diam-diam after kena shout. serves them right...

    and there are no-frills running events too, no freebies and low or no fees. theres a mob run 18km later this month at east coast park, free and no freebies.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

  47. #97
    mechwira
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    i'm also interested in the 2XU half-mara, but right now i'm concerned that i may have developed plantar fasciitis on my left foot. i didn see a doctor or have it diagnosed but the symptoms seem to fit.

    this was caused either by ramping myself up to 15km too quickly, or wearing brand new saucony virratas on my last 15k which may have hid my poor form over a long distance. possibly both.

    apparently you're supposed to stay off running for up to 6 weeks but i'm too addicted to stop. i started back on daily 8k after just 3 days of rest and found that i could only run in my New Balance Minimus Zero because i had to run in a pure forefoot strike; anything approaching midfoot, even the slightest load on my midfoot, would send a stabbing pain.

    so the past 4 days i've limited myself to 8k, on NB Minimus Zero, doing pure forefoot strike the whole distance. after my runs i would tape myself up with KT tape and leave overnight. either one of these 2 seems to be working coz i can feel the pain getting gradually less each day, so fingers crossed

    i'm now trying to see where i can buy a night splint coz apparently it also helps with the condition.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

  48. #98
    ticks
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    There's 2 months to go so should be in time for u to recover. Unless you're gunning for a podium finish? Hehehe
    Ride fast..ride safe..don't crash...

  49. #99
    mechwira
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    Quote Originally Posted by ticks View Post
    There's 2 months to go so should be in time for u to recover. Unless you're gunning for a podium finish? Hehehe
    recover only where got enuff, still must train wat. if i sign up i must know i can cross the finish line having jogged the whole way no matter slow, not take shortcut or hitch a ride in some ninja van

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

  50. #100
    ticks
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    Quote Originally Posted by mechwira View Post
    recover only where got enuff, still must train wat. if i sign up i must know i can cross the finish line having jogged the whole way no matter slow, not take shortcut or hitch a ride in some ninja van
    Haha I'm slightly different. I'm having the 21 as my target to work towards to. Ask me to run now I won't be able to also. My left hamstring still hurts a little.
    Ride fast..ride safe..don't crash...

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