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Thread: Recreational Running

  1. #101
    vyruz
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    Quote Originally Posted by mechwira View Post
    i'm also interested in the 2XU half-mara, but right now i'm concerned that i may have developed plantar fasciitis on my left foot. i didn see a doctor or have it diagnosed but the symptoms seem to fit.

    apparently you're supposed to stay off running for up to 6 weeks but i'm too addicted to stop. i started back on daily 8k after just 3 days of rest and found that i could only run in my New Balance Minimus Zero because i had to run in a pure forefoot strike; anything approaching midfoot, even the slightest load on my midfoot, would send a stabbing pain.
    That sucks. I have a slight pain in the sole of my left foot, so I definitely understand. You want to keep pushing but at the same time you don't want to do so much damage that you're out of action for ages. Hope it gets better soon bro.

    I'm not a fan of Saucony Virratas. Like you, I suspect your Virratas might have something to do with your injury. The transition you did back to the Minimus Zero supports this. I did two 12km runs in my Virratas and have never used them since. It felt way over-cushy and too grippy if that makes sense.
    Cry 'Havoc'.....and let slip the dogs of war

  2. #102
    mechwira
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    Quote Originally Posted by vyruz View Post

    I'm not a fan of Saucony Virratas...... It felt way over-cushy and too grippy if that makes sense.
    Yes!!! It does!!! Exactly the 2 things I thought after just 2 runs in the virrata!

    At first they felt very similar to the kinvara but after I went back to the kinvara I realized the kinvara was firmer.

    I donno how or why but the softness of the sole, plus a strange hard lump at the arch, made it impossible for me to even walk in the virrata now. I'm now considering getting the merell bare access or road glove for shoe rotation. I cant run with just one pair.
    Last edited by mechwira; 10-12-2013 at 02:27 PM.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

     

     
  3. #103
    mechwira
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    Personal Review: Saucony Virrata




    I have only logged 40km in these shoes, consisting of intervals, fast 5's and a long and casual 15k. the reason why i write a review after such low mileage is because, as heart pain as it is to burn $140 on these, i have been forced to discard them. but more on that later.

    when i first thought of buying these, i was looking for a cushioned zero drop shoe. and the Virrata is definitely it. its got mostly positive reviews all over the net. the flexible zero-drop sole makes it natural to midfoot strike and also allows a forefoot strike if you want, unlike the kinvara which is natural in midfoot strike but the 4mm drop and less flexible sole made forefoot strike slightly awkward. it has a very plush cushion and a very soft upper good enough for sockless BUT i found that the virrata's rear collar simply would not stop sliding up and down and therefore to avoid blisters i could not go sockless in these. its grippy coz the outsole is made up of nearly all soft deep lugs of EVA+ (see pic), which is actually the material of the midsole cushion and probably why the virrata is so plush too. but... we're bikers, we know if you get grippy soft tyres then the trade-off is longevity. needless to say, you don;t 'feel the ground' in these like true minimalist but if in the first place you want a cushioned shoe then this should be a good thing.

    the problem was.... i was wrong in that a cushioned zero drop shoe was NOT what i could use after all.

    the short of it is, the virrata was possibly the cause of, or at the very least aggravated, a running injury on my left foot which i believe to be plantar fasciitis (did not get proper diagnosis). in my self analysis, i have concluded that the culprit is the thick and plush cushion of the virrata. although it is made for mid and forefoot strike, the plush cushioning hides my poor form. if you're a 'real' runner, you will know you frequently 'space out' mentally during the run, especially when you're tired. in the 'real minimalist' New Balance MR Zero, i can feel with every foot strike whether i was landing fore, mid or especially heel. just one heel strike in my space-out moment, and i will feel it and be reminded to correct my running form. but the virrata's plush cushion hides each heel strike. i would space out for several hundred meters and then self-check my running form only to realize i've been lightly heel striking for quite awhile.

    and then comes the second problem. maybe its because i'm flat-footed and severely over-pronate, but since i started running 'seriously', i found that ultra-soft shoes cause my ankle to roll too much which very quickly causes pain similar to ankle sprain. this ankle stability is no issue in a pure forefoot strike (because you pronate very little), and only a slight problem in midfoot strike. but since the virrata hides my poor form (or i walk which naturally uses heel-to-toe), then my ankle instability adds to my injury woes in the virrata.

    and so in conclusion, i have to discard the virrata. i have to stress here that the main problem is that the virrata does not match my particular biomechanics. assessed purely as a 'well-cushioned zero-drop shoe', then the virrata is definitely it. apparently saucony has determined that there are people who want to do midfoot strike but want a softer ride coz they cant stand harsh minimalist shoes. if this is you, there should be plenty to like about the virrata. you just have to be sure that a cushioned zero drop shoe is definitely what you want/need.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

  4. #104
    ticks
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    Hey guys. Just FYI. I just came back from Bali and was surprised at how much more shoes and sports wear costs so much more over here. I bought a saucony kinvara for less than sgd60. It was priced at around sgd100 to begin with. My gf got a nike gym shoe at sgd120 when it's priced at sgd180 in singapore.

    So if you want shoes or sports apparel. Make a trip there I suppose? Haha.

    And I tried my kinvara at the gym the night I got it but only did 2.4 in it so have yet to get personalized to it. But as mechwira mentioned, I did feel some hard/numb feel to the sole. Only distance will reveal more of this shoe later on.

    Cheers guys! Happy running!
    Ride fast..ride safe..don't crash...

  5. #105
    mechwira
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    wow, and that $60 is the kinvara4? coz if kinvara3 not so surprising, some stores in sg clearing stock the 3 model for 69, but a kinvara4 for that price is a dam good bargain price.

    ya the kinvara is firmer than the virrata coz it has a harder more durable powergrid heel insert, and it only has lugs in the forefoot, the lugs are not very deep and i believe they're the harder outsole material. the virrata's outsole is almost entirely deep soft lugs of eva+ cushioning material.

    enjoy the kinvara, i keep saying they're great long distance midfoot shoes. let us know if your calves start hurting again

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

  6. #106
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    Haha. That I have to check again if it's 3/4. I also saw the merrell road glove going at $100 too before discount. But again not sure if its old model or not. Will start running tonight for long distance and see how it goes.

    Thanks!
    Ride fast..ride safe..don't crash...

  7. #107
    mechwira
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    wow, now a road glove at $100 before discount. again assuming latest ver 2, another dam good bargain price. bali a bit far, wonder if i can find the same in batam...

    coincidentally after i abandoned the virrata, i looked at the Merrell Road Glove and Bare Access. i needed a third shoe in my rotation to replace the ill-fated virrata, and i now know i need something more minimal, closer to the Minimus Zero. the two Merell seemed to fit my requirement; unfortunately Royal Sporting House only carried sizes US 8 and US 9 and i needed a US 8.5 (or UK 8). neither the US 8 or US 9 would fit properly, so i had to give it up.

    interestingly the Road Glove had a strange 'pinch' at both sides of the midfoot, like a hand gripping your feet at the sides. very strange and other reviewers have commented the same feeling though they all claimed the 'pinch' disappears when you run in mid/forefoot strike.

    then i wanted the Skechers GoBionic; but most Skechers stores only carried the GoBionic Ride which was a more cushioned version of the GoBionic. failed again; maybe the minimalist movement never really took off in singapore.

    then by chance i stepped into Sportslink and found three minimalist shoes: the New Balance MR10 (essentially the Minimus Zero with a 4mm drop), the Adidas Adipure Motion and Adipure Gazelle. i tried all 3, and the moment i stepped into the Adipure Gazelle, i fell in love. worn sockless it was incredibly comfortable, like a stretchy watersports booty. footstrike felt just like the Minimus Zero but with a just a very little bit more cushion. interestingly it has a 6mm drop (yes SIX!) but the entire sole was so thin and flexible it made the zero drop virrata feel like a bulky conventional shoe.

    i've only gone 1 run in them, and i had to cut it short after just 3k coz a fierce blister formed at the bottom of my right foot. to be fair to the shoe, the blister is at the exact same spot where i blister in every single new running shoe i've worn in the past, even before i adapted. but this time maybe because i went sockless, the blister was painful enough that i had to quit.

    but i'm very excited about this shoe. super comfortable, with seemingly just the right amount of cushioning for me to still feel 'real minimalist'. i'll comment further once i clock more mileage, especially about whether a 6mm drop shoe affects anything.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

  8. #108
    ticks
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    Ya maybe it's the older ones. Mine kinvara is the 3. lol. Zzz. Anyway when you're talking about heel drop right bro, the lesser the better or the other way round(in view of getting better running technique)?
    Ride fast..ride safe..don't crash...

  9. #109
    mechwira
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    Quote Originally Posted by ticks View Post
    Ya maybe it's the older ones. Mine kinvara is the 3. lol. Zzz.
    ah well. a kinvara 3 for less than half the price for the 4 is still a very good deal. i honestly would have bought the 3 for $69 if i had seen it before i bought the 4.

    the only difference is the design of the upper. the 4 has a softer more comfy flexifilm upper BUT owners have reported tearing the upper on branches when running on trails. then again the kinvara is not a trail running shoe.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

  10. #110
    mechwira
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    conventional running shoes typically come with 12-16mm offset. the big cushion at the heel is there precisely to protect the heel from impact for heel striking runners.

    if you want to do mid/forefoot strike, actually you should use a shoe with 0mm offset. shoes with 4mm offset like the kinavara are generally regarded as transition shoes for runners who first want to change their running form to midfoot strike. they are also good for midfoot strikers who cannot handle the harshness of real minimalist shoes. if you have been wearing conventional shoes all your adult running life and naturally heel strike, it may not be a good idea to immediately go to a 0mm shoe or minimalist shoes. you will overwork the muscles that have so far been used very little in your heel strike running, plus while your running form is not perfect the lack of protection may cause injuries. there are however some minimalist runners who say that its better to immediately go to 0mm minimalist shoes or even run barefoot on grass, feel the pain so that you immediately reset your running style.....

    the reasons why a shoe with more than 4mm offset is not suitable for mid/forefoot strike are:

    1) with 12-16mm offset, your feet are already at an elevated angle just by standing flat. so when you try to midfoot strike, there is a good chance you will end up thumping your heel down anyway.

    2) typically with 12-16mm offset, you end up with thick and rigid soles which dont allow your feet to bend properly to land in the mid or forefoot.

    3) that 12-16mm offset is due to cushioning deliberately designed to absorb the shock at the heel. this means if you try to mid/forefoot strike, there is no feedback, no pain when you run 'wrongly' and heel strike so its difficult to check yourself if you're running 'properly'.

    interestingly my adipure gazelle has a 6mm offset but the shoe is designed as a minimalist shoe so overall the sole construction of the sole is so thin and flexible that its completely natural to do mid/forefoot strike and it makes the zero drop virrata feel like a bulky conventional shoe. so the numbers dont tell the full story, but i'd say the adipure gazelle is an exception.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

  11. #111
    ticks
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    As always mech, thanks for the detailed understanding. Just went for my 9 km run after a weeks break at Bali. Suffice to say the shoe outlasted me. Lol. All I had during the week was a 2.4 on a treadmill.
    Ride fast..ride safe..don't crash...

     

     
  12. #112
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    i've registered for the 2XU half-marathon. took the basic package without the visor or compression pants. so i want to share my weekly training program which will commence week after next (next week new year holiday week a bit disruptive to start, so i'll just do whatever running i can next week and that start the program proper the week after).

    Monday evening: Casual 8k or Intervals

    Tuesday evening: 30mins tempo run

    Wednesday evening: Casual 8k

    Thursday evening: 30mins strength training hill climbs

    Friday evening: Weekly group run with friends

    Saturday: Rest day

    Sunday morning: Long run

    My long run currently stands at 13km. i hit 15km previously but due to the injury i 'reset' my mileage. i now plan to increase my long run by 1km every week until i hit 18km then keep it constant there, and i plan to do at least one 18km on sunday morning at 5am coz thats the half-mara flag off time. at that point also my casual runs i will bring it up to 9k, possibly 10k.

    anyone else signed up and wanna share training programs and compare notes?

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

  13. #113
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    Yup same for me. Half marathon basic package. But I don't have such a structured plan. I'll just do my runs and gym. Now I'm doing 9k weekly runs. Will increase 1 km per week and go on till race day.
    Ride fast..ride safe..don't crash...

  14. #114
    mechwira
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    Quote Originally Posted by ticks View Post
    Yup same for me. Half marathon basic package. But I don't have such a structured plan. I'll just do my runs and gym. Now I'm doing 9k weekly runs. Will increase 1 km per week and go on till race day.
    my suggestion is once you clock 12k and you still keep increasing, then this 'increasing long run' should not be don more than once a week. the rest of the week if you run it should be capped at no higher than say 70% of your current weekly maximum. like i said in my earlier post, you cant continue running frequently and simultaneously increase the distance.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by mechwira View Post
    i've registered for the 2XU half-marathon. took the basic package without the visor or compression pants. so i want to share my weekly training program which will commence week after next (next week new year holiday week a bit disruptive to start, so i'll just do whatever running i can next week and that start the program proper the week after).

    Monday evening: Casual 8k or Intervals

    Tuesday evening: 30mins tempo run

    Wednesday evening: Casual 8k

    Thursday evening: 30mins strength training hill climbs

    Friday evening: Weekly group run with friends

    Saturday: Rest day

    Sunday morning: Long run

    My long run currently stands at 13km. i hit 15km previously but due to the injury i 'reset' my mileage. i now plan to increase my long run by 1km every week until i hit 18km then keep it constant there, and i plan to do at least one 18km on sunday morning at 5am coz thats the half-mara flag off time. at that point also my casual runs i will bring it up to 9k, possibly 10k.

    anyone else signed up and wanna share training programs and compare notes?
    Just signed up for the basic half marathon. No specific training plan like yours! Will continue with my long run every Wednesday night (15km now), and increase to 20km by mid-Feb. Saturday mornings will do a 10-12km run after my usual bike session. Let's see how it turns out!
    Past: KDX200, LC4 400, LC4 620, GSXR750WR
    Present: CBR900RRY, Gas Gas EC250, XR250L, XR250RV, XR400 (motard-ed), NX650 Dominator

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by mechwira View Post
    i've registered for the 2XU half-marathon. took the basic package without the visor or compression pants. so i want to share my weekly training program which will commence week after next (next week new year holiday week a bit disruptive to start, so i'll just do whatever running i can next week and that start the program proper the week after).

    Monday evening: Casual 8k or Intervals

    Tuesday evening: 30mins tempo run

    Wednesday evening: Casual 8k

    Thursday evening: 30mins strength training hill climbs

    Friday evening: Weekly group run with friends

    Saturday: Rest day

    Sunday morning: Long run

    My long run currently stands at 13km. i hit 15km previously but due to the injury i 'reset' my mileage. i now plan to increase my long run by 1km every week until i hit 18km then keep it constant there, and i plan to do at least one 18km on sunday morning at 5am coz thats the half-mara flag off time. at that point also my casual runs i will bring it up to 9k, possibly 10k.

    anyone else signed up and wanna share training programs and compare notes?
    Just signed up for the basic half marathon. No specific training plan like yours! Will continue with my long run every Wednesday night (15km now), and increase to 20km by mid-Feb. Saturday mornings will do a 10-12km run after my usual bike session. Let's see how it turns out!
    Past: KDX200, LC4 400, LC4 620, GSXR750WR
    Present: CBR900RRY, Gas Gas EC250, XR250L, XR250RV, XR400 (motard-ed), NX650 Dominator

  17. #117
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    I'm using 2 shoes at the moment. both minimalist.
    Merrell Barefoot road gloves & New Balance MT00.
    And 1 "not exactly a shoe", but a running sandal. "Zero shoes" Huaraches 4mm outsole.

    HRM i'm using Garmin Forerunner.

    NB MT00 is more "minimalist" than the merrell road glove.
    The merrell road gloves has a slightly more rigid outsole, which I am actually more comfortable with for longer runs.
    The more rigid outsole also enables me to run on cross country tracks more comfortably.

    Common running injury, is self caused, through prolonged running in poor or incorrect form.
    By using a minimalist running shoe, and with proper education on running, it should correct your running form and posture.
    Because everytime you adopt incorrect running techniques, you will feel uncomfortable, or even pain.
    Running correctly in minimalist shoes should feel comfortable, and more efficient.
    So if you're not comfortable, something is not done correctly.

    Completed the recent 21km in the huaraches. Felt some uncomfortable pain because I have adopted poor form from the 18km mark onwards due to tiredness and fatique and laziness.
    It was however an awesome run nevertheless.

  18. #118
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    Hey guys. YouTube recently uploaded a 5 part video on correct running techniques. From the brief vid I watch it seems like a good collection of vids summing up all the important points incorrect running form.
    Just type in the relevant key words and it should pop up right on top of the list.
    Ride fast..ride safe..don't crash...

  19. #119
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    wow, the NB Minimus Zero is already the most extreme minimalist i'm willing to go, i already think the fivefingers are too extreme for me, and i never thought i'd actually hear about someone running in the huaraches in a half-mara.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

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    i think in general it is scientifically accepted that mid/forefoot running is more efficient and injury resistant compared to heel striking, even though plenty of elite runners like ultra marathoners and olympiads can still be seen doing heel strikes.

    but the different mid/forefoot techniques.... i've read up Chi Running and Pose Method. the Pose Method seems to require an instructor to train you and the Chi Running has too much mumbo-jumbo for me to fully understand.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

  21. #121
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    half of the jokes in the vid below you have to have read "Born to run" to get it, and the other half is funny as long as you've heard/read about barefoot running.



    and btw, the guy in the video is a barefoot runner and founder of Invisible Shoes, which makes Xero Shoes wich are essebtially hauarches or running sandals.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

     

     
  22. #122
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    so today, in my weekly long slow distance towards the upcoming half-mara, i tried for the first time a fuel gel. the gel i used was the same one mentioned earlier by vyrus: the Maxifuel Viper Boost.

    two weekends ago, in my LSD targeted at 13k, i hit the wall for the first time ever in my running at 11k. i usually can last up to 12k without hitting the wall or bonking, but for reasons i still dont understand, in that LSD i finally felt wat it was like, and at only 11k. so much so that in my final km of the run, i was going nearly twice my usual cruising pace.

    last weekend, i consumed a banana and half a pack of 'Weiner Carb Gel' (available Guardian and Shop&Save) an hour before running, because i dreaded hitting the wall again. usually i ran on an empty stomache and could last 12k, admittedly with hunger pangs and tailing off my pace after 10k. the banana and carb gel seemed to do the trick: no wall all the way to my targeted 14k, though again tailed off after 10k, which was normal.

    few days ago, spotted the viper boost at guardian. bought one to try. in today's targeted 15k LSD, consumed at 10k mark (approx 1h). at first tongue contact, tasted like thick lime cordial, then it turned sharp. almost yucky but went down my throat before it started feeling disgusting, and that sharpness did not linger on the tongue. chased it with plain water once the gel pack emptied. no stomach upset experienced.

    no difference for next 2km (about 15 mins). then strangely past 12k mark, fatigue level felt like i had only been doing 6k, not 12k. also, started forgetting to drink because thirst did not come with usual regularity. post-run, checked my gps record and saw that at 10k and 11k, pace started slowing by 10-15s each km, which was normal. but at 12k to 15k, pace started picking up back to usual cruising speed before 10k mark. i was not faster, but running normally without tailing off like usual.

    so yes, there is something to this viper boost gel. however, i do not know if it was the carb and electrolytes, or just the caffeine kick (it has 100mg caffeine). ideally i'd rather consume the Viper Active Gel, which has the same content except that the Boost has fibre and that caffeine. but Guardian only sold the Boost. i do pop caffeine pills occasionally in my training, but i prefer them to be separate options rather than a 2-in-1. i'm not certain, but two hours after my run ended i may have experienced a minor post-caffeine crash. i say 'minor' because i'm a chronic coffee drinker at work and i regularly experience 'proper' caffeine crashes in the afternoon, and the one i felt post-run today was not as bad. but if i'm a coffee guzzler and i felt something, then caffeine intolerant runners should perhaps be cautious.

    in my next LSD in two weeks' time, i'm trying out a gel with no caffeine. the GU energy gel.



    contains same 100 kCal like Viper Boost/Active, same amount of carbs too. but more salt, and all in a 50g gel unlike the viper in a 70g gel. then i'll decide which to use in the actual 21k. and share findings here.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

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    Wow. That's done write up on fuel gels. Just finished my 12k today. Slightly behind schedule now. Lol..
    Ride fast..ride safe..don't crash...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mechwira View Post
    so yes, there is something to this viper boost gel.
    I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one buddy! I love the stuff.

    I took a week off around Xmas due to a cough/sore throat and have been struggling to get back to my old mileage No half-mara distance since then, but I'll get back on track this weekend.

    Last week I thought "Maybe I should circulate between my Vapor Gloves (minimalist shoe) and my old Nike Free 5.0. Maybe my muscles will hurt less and I can train more". Silly me. 6km into my run with the Nike and I felt all sorts of wrong. Pinky crushing into the side of the shoe, soles felt tacky and odd. Overall felt like my shoes were slowing me down and making me work much harder for the run.

    At 7km, I had a stroke of 'genius'. Took my shoes off, and did the rest 3km home completely barefoot (shoes in hand). Bad idea. Ended up with blisters the size of 5c coins on both toes and second toes (is that what they're called?).

    I'm never running without my Vapor Gloves again.

    Just wanted to share and wish you all happy running. I'm about to get changed and run back from work.
    Cry 'Havoc'.....and let slip the dogs of war

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    Anyone works in town and runs around Marina Bay area after work?
    Past: KDX200, LC4 400, LC4 620, GSXR750WR
    Present: CBR900RRY, Gas Gas EC250, XR250L, XR250RV, XR400 (motard-ed), NX650 Dominator

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    Past: KDX200, LC4 400, LC4 620, GSXR750WR
    Present: CBR900RRY, Gas Gas EC250, XR250L, XR250RV, XR400 (motard-ed), NX650 Dominator

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    Quote Originally Posted by ulysses_sc View Post
    That's amazing.

    One thing I love about running is how little age can matter.
    Cry 'Havoc'.....and let slip the dogs of war

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    i'm going to review compression base layers now, starting from cheapest to most expensive.


    PERSONAL REVIEW: X-PRIN COMPRESSION BASE LAYER



    Available as long top, short top, sleeveless top, shorts and pants from Qoo10.
    Price approximate $20 each piece with free shipping option available.


    Comments:

    The fact is, the term 'compression' is too loosely used by sellers. technically, a 'real' compression garment should offer graduated compression and then have threads that deliberately hold your muscles/body in a certain way to achieve a certain effect. for active sports, the effect is *supposedly* to "reduce muscle vibration" thereby "reducing fatigue" and "enhancing performance".

    i dont want to comment on whether the claims are true. i believe scientific tests have yielded only a big "maybe". but if your compression base layer does not give the graduated compression with deliberate threading, then its just PLAIN TIGHTS. the kind last time during NS you wear inside pants during route march to prevent abrasion.

    and thats what these X-Prin things are: PLAIN TIGHTS. they fit reasonably well, wick sweat away reasonably well, and while you're running then no matter hot sun or light drizzle your body feels like its running in the same comfortable temperature. HOWEVER.... if the weather is hot and you haven yet started running it will feel warm.... and if you just finished running in these and the weather is cold, you will shiver.... its during the run while sweating that there seems to be some climate control at work. But most important of all, it prevents chafing and abrasions. thats what plain tights are for.

    Verdict:
    if you just want plain tights to prevent abrasions, and either dont believe or dont need the claimed enhancements of 'real' compression garments, then quite frankly these work reasonably well at the cheapest price i could see. buy a set, try it out, if you like order some more.
    Last edited by mechwira; 29-01-2014 at 02:27 PM.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

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    Personal Review: Nike Pro Combat Shorts and Sleeveless Top



    Approximately $40 without discounts at most sports stores.


    Comments:

    In my previous post, i explained the difference between real compression garments and plain tights. nike labels these as compression. and i say bullcrap these are plain tights like the X-Prin i reviewed previous post. however, the pro combat shorts are noticeably more comfortable than the cheaper X-Prin shorts in terms of how they stretch and hug your legs and balls (sorry to be crude), and especially that bigger elastic waist band. but for some reason the top i felt like it just tugs at my chest and tummy in an uncomfortable way.


    Verdict:ultimately, despite those fancy looking threading, i still feel no graduated compression or anything different to the cheaper X-Prin other than a more comfortable fit with the Pro Combat shorts. i guess in a way the extra comfort is worth the extra money. but dont expect these to feel like those real and ultra-expensive true compression garments.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

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    Personal Review: Skins A400 Long Sleeve Top and Long Pants.



    Price: Not sure retail, bought it via lobang. I believe would be around $170. for top or pants EACH. around same price as 2XU's equivalent top of the range.


    Comments:

    if your eyes havent popped out the the price i stated, either you're already wearing one of these or the 2XU equivalent, or you need spectacles. this is freakin expensive.

    So the most important question: are these 170 bucks garments any different to the plain tights of X-Prin and Nike?

    Hell yeah. Like a Givi open-face helmet vs an Arai full face. like a CBR250R vs a Fireblade. you get the idea.

    So is it worth the 170 bucks? that one not so easy to answer because for the price, you can get 8 pieces of X-Prin or 4 pieces of Nike.

    Once these are in your hands, you immediately feel that the material is thicker than the X-Prin or Nike plain tights. then you put them on and almost faint from trying to pull on something so tight and you wonder if you bought the wrong size. so you keep pulling and pulling for them to go over your legs (or upper body), running out of breath.... and then it snaps into place and suddenly, immediately you realize comparing these with X-Prin or Nike is ridiculous. like the helmet and bike comparison i gave.

    it hugs like a second skin, full stop. no gaps, no loose segments, no movement. once it snaps into place, it stays there and you never feel like you need to tug here or there to get the garment just right. even though its thicker, it doesnt feel hotter. and once you're up and running, you feel like you're not wearing anything there but your muscles feel tighter and firmer. Amazing.

    But here's the disclaimer: wearing these for a 10k, and then swapping back to X-Prin, i'm not running significantly faster on these. I do, however, feel less muscle fatigue towards the end of an 18k. and strangely after the run when i took them off, muscle fatigue gradually and noticeably set in, an observation a lot of internet reviewers also claim.

    to put it into context, even if you believe that these will enhance your performance, these are not going to suddenly cut your IPPT timing by 1 minute. you are not even going to feel any difference at any run less than 10k. what it does (at least for me) is at the exteme end of my endurance distance, i feel less muscle fatigue enabling me to keep going. that means if you're into its performance enhancement, then if you're not into endurance running, it is a monumental waste of money just for an ultra-comfy piece of running underwear. Please.... don't wear these in your IPPT run, i seriously cannot stop myself laughing if you do.


    Verdict:
    Do you do endurance running above 10k? Do you believe that real compression garments might somehow help you perform? if answer to both is 'no', then like i mentioned this becomes a $170 (top or bottom EACH!) ultra-comfy running underwear. if you run above 10k and/or believe in the enhancement, even then i donno to conclude worth the money or not, and many net reviewers feel the same: dam good but dam expensive. if it were me, i would buy just one pair long tights bottom and wear only during once a week Long-Slow-Distance and half marathon events.
    Last edited by mechwira; 29-01-2014 at 02:33 PM.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

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    Hi mechwira, thanks for the detailed review on compression clothes. As usual. Heheh. You've seems to spend quite a lot on running gear huh?
    But what about UnderArmor anyway? Seems to have a lot of publicity in movies with the Rock wearing them..

    On a side note, how often do you guys run with minimalist shoes and how long per run? I've just got myself a Merrell Trail Glove 1. A 2km run in it renders me out of running action for the next 3 days due to calf muscle ache. FYI, I have rather skinny calves. I think I've just found the best way to train the calf muscle now. Lol.
    Ride fast..ride safe..don't crash...

     

     
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    Quote Originally Posted by ticks View Post
    Hi mechwira, thanks for the detailed review on compression clothes. As usual. Heheh. You've seems to spend quite a lot on running gear huh?
    i find it particularly heart pain when i spend a lot on an item that i later find does not work for me. like the saucony virrata. i still feel sian looking at those new shoes at my shoe rack.

    but no choice, must experiment to find wat works. when something expensive works, then i easily justify it coz i run 6 days a week, including a once-a-week long run which by now is 18k. the expensive skins compression is worth wearing for the very long run, all the fuel gels is necessary coz if i go past 15k without fueling i bonk.

    But what about UnderArmor anyway? Seems to have a lot of publicity in movies with the Rock wearing them..
    donno, never tried the brand. even 2XU i heard people say the stitching follows kinesiology, so it grips your muscles a certain way which some people may not find comfortable. i can only comment the feel of compressions that i've tried.

    On a side note, how often do you guys run with minimalist shoes and how long per run? I've just got myself a Merrell Trail Glove 1. A 2km run in it renders me out of running action for the next 3 days due to calf muscle ache. FYI, I have rather skinny calves. I think I've just found the best way to train the calf muscle now. Lol.
    when i first used NB Minimus Zero, i could only go casual 5k runs in them. the rest of the time i reverted back to my Kinvara. and yes, that first week in the minimus gave me the most painful calf soreness since i started running.

    the key, as always, is transition. if 2k gave you muscle soreness, wait till the soreness disappears, then run your usual distance with your other shoe first. then go 3k or 4k with your merell and see if any soreness develops again. i believe will have but much, much less. eventually there is no soreness. then it becomes how long you can maintain your running form in them, or how long you can tahan their harshness. i can now go 12k in my minimus. my longs, events and ippt 2.4 i still use kinvara.

    but i cannot stress enough how important my minimus zero has been in terms of developing my proper running form, even if now i still cant use them for my long runs or ippt 2.4km

    i'm surprised you got the trail though.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

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    Wow. 12 k in your minimus. That's a tough achievement! Yea but anyway, training for the half marathon now means I can't run as much as I like in them.
    I do like the merrell as I feel it forcefully corrects my form even though it's just short distances. Then when I revert back to my Kinvara for long distances, the leg sort of automatically avoids heel strike.
    Reason why I got the trail over the road was partly due to the salesman who was a runner himself. The reason he have and from what I experienced before on my NB is that, the road biased shoes offer no grip when the surface is wet/damp. I ran in Henderson park with my NB last time and it was just an accident waiting to happen due to all the damp algae. In the end, I could only walk through the trail.
    Ride fast..ride safe..don't crash...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ticks View Post
    Hi mechwira, thanks for the detailed review on compression clothes. As usual. Heheh. You've seems to spend quite a lot on running gear huh?
    Seconded! Mechwira, time to buy lots of new running headphones/earphones and give us your thoughts.

    I run with my trusty ol' Sennheiser CX 300 II, with different sized silicon tips in each ear.

    I bought the Jaybirds Bluebuds X (below) for S$269 and returned them because they just didn't it well enough to make a good seal. Without this, no in-ear earphones will reproduce good bass.



    I then bought the Sennheiser OCX 685i for something like S$60 from amazon.com, and that also didn't give a good seal. S$20 on Comply foam also did not help.



    I'm back to my original CX 300 II now

    Quote Originally Posted by ticks View Post
    On a side note, how often do you guys run with minimalist shoes and how long per run? I've just got myself a Merrell Trail Glove 1. A 2km run in it renders me out of running action for the next 3 days due to calf muscle ache. FYI, I have rather skinny calves. I think I've just found the best way to train the calf muscle now. Lol.
    I do my 21km runs in my Merrell Vapor Gloves. I do this at most once every two weeks partly due to not wanting to strain my joints too much, and partly because long runs can feel reeeeeeeeally long and it gets to you.

    Minimalist shoes definitely give the calves a beating, but:

    1. Your calves get used to it after a while. I used to get sore after 10km on the Vapor Glove but not any more. I still get very sore after a 21km (I hobble around the rest of the night), but muscle soreness is so much better than the injuries I am prone to in cushioned shoes.

    2. The shoes are super light, which becomes important the longer you run. I can feel my thighs getting heavy and tired lifting my legs over and over again, and hours into a run, the few pounds different in shoe weight become as pronounced as running with/without ankle weights.

    Keep at it! If you're sore, just take it easy by resting (not running) or doing a significantly lower paced run.

    Some tips I always remind myself of when running in the Vapor Gloves:

    1. Drop stride length and increase cadence - so smaller steps and faster turnover of the feet striking the ground. This will do wonders in lowering the amount of force you feel shooting up your feet from the ground, and the soreness you have to deal with later.

    2. Minimize the duration my feet contact the ground. The longer your feet remain on the ground, the more 'sticky' the run, the more energy sapping the run feels. To do this, I try to land my foot as close to under my centre of gravity as I can, which feels like my feet are landing behind me (i.e. I don't see where my foot lands unless I look far down). Not sure if this makes sense

    3. "Think Easy, Light, Smooth, and Fast. You start with easy, because if that’s all you get, that’s not so bad. Then work on light. Make it effortless… When you’ve practiced that so long that you forget you’re practicing, you work on making it smooooooth. You won’t have to worry about the last one – you get those three, and you’ll be fast" - from Born to Run.

    4. Don't push off the ground. Instead focus on lifting via thigh muscles. I'm guilty of forgetting this until like 4km into a run and realizing that I'm getting sore/tired too quickly.
    Cry 'Havoc'.....and let slip the dogs of war

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    aiyah... i dun run listening to music so i not into earphones

    i find the music distracts me from focusing on running form, cadence, foot strike, breathing, exertion, etc. and when i zone out i kinda like the focused mental state i get into, and get to just think about things. i honestly feel the mental state i achieve in running is akin to meditation.

    and btw, with regards to maintaining running form in a run especially with minimalist shoes, i found that ever since i started a training program, running drills have been the most significant in improving my form. i would recommend incorporating running drills at least once a week; slow jog warm up about 15 mins, then do the drills explained here and here.

    i really feel those drills helped fire the lesser muscles properly during my run such that my legs feel more flexible and lighter.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

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    Those are good tips there! But where do u do it normally? To avoid people looking at me like a crazy dude, I normally do my interval training comprising on push-ups, burpies, squats and what not on top of a vacant car park. Lol.
    Ride fast..ride safe..don't crash...

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    Hey vyruz, can't agree with u more. Muscle soreness is so much better than joint pains.
    Regarding your lifting-the- legs point, I was mistaken when I saw one YouTube vid to use the knee drive. That put my hamstring in pain for days. Then I discovered to use the glute and butt muscles for propulsion and that work wonders.
    All in all I think I just have weak lower body muscles and just need to work on efficiency while hitting the gym the same time to build some muscles.
    About headphones, I'm using the ones sold at running lab at I12 katong. It claims that the earphone will never fall off. While the sound quality is crap, the BS thing is that i discovered when I was running, I accidentally hooked the wire and I thought the whole earphone was dislodged from my ear. But it turned out, only the wire came off while the earphone was still in my ear. Lol. Can't really fault the brand since the earphone did stay in my ear, albeit without the wire.
    Ride fast..ride safe..don't crash...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ticks View Post
    Those are good tips there! But where do u do it normally? To avoid people looking at me like a crazy dude, I normally do my interval training comprising on push-ups, burpies, squats and what not on top of a vacant car park. Lol.
    i do my running drills at a paved open space beside my block. some hdb estates have these kinda open space.

    first time yeah felt self-conscious, some ppl were looking like wondering wat i was doing, especially with all the high knees, forward flicks side shuffles and reverse running. but two weeks of twice weekly was enough to fire up the unused muscles such i really feel the increase in flexibility when running.

    so now i heck care how i look. if its good for my running, i'm doing it.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

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    U guys are so pro.

    Gone are my distance running days. Nowadays I just use my army running shoes. Haha.

    I have cut out all moderate intensity running. My weekly workout consist of 1 gym session, 2 high intensity interval with 1 on road and the other with HDB stairs. The rest of the days I will try do slow walk as much as I can squeeze in throughout the day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ticks View Post
    But it turned out, only the wire came off while the earphone was still in my ear. Lol. Can't really fault the brand since the earphone did stay in my ear, albeit without the wire.
    LOL
    Cry 'Havoc'.....and let slip the dogs of war

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    New shoe update!

    I bought a pair of Skechers GoRun Speed (Retails $169 at Skechers Parkway Parade, $28 off for CNY sale, still on as of a few days ago).



    What I Like:

    1. Way more cushy than my rock hard Vapor Glove. I felt WAY less fatigued in the calf area and running downhill was a pleasure.
    2. Soft, but not too soft, sole. There are harder pods in the midfoot area (see dark blue circles below) and a carbon fibre (tasty!) plate in the middle of the sole. See below



    What I Don't Like:

    1. Not as light as my Vapor Glove - I can feel the weight bearing down on a 10km run. It's all relative, but I definitely felt the weight difference as my run progressed. Vapor Glove=5oz. GoRun=6.9oz.
    2. Sole is still predominantly soft material - like the Saucony Virrata - so it feels like it robs some efficiency in the run (i.e. sticky feel). Also wears fast. After my first 10km on it, there is significant wear in the midfoot and outer heel area. I know I drag my feet from time to time, but relative to my Vapor Glove, this thing wears out quick!
    4. Runs a little narrower in the toe box than Vapor Glove, so I can feel one or two little pressure points on my right foot, but it's nowhere near as bad as the Saucony Virrata felt.
    5. Doesn't breathe anywhere near as nice as my Vapor Gloves. Feels stuffy at the end of 10km.

    I feel like I'm chasing an unobtainable holy grail shoe that is:

    1. Light, airy and hard like my Vapor Glove but also
    2. Soft enough to let me increase my distance and cruise downhill without hurting

    The search continues! Next stop, Merrell's Road Glove 2.
    Last edited by vyruz; 14-02-2014 at 10:41 AM.
    Cry 'Havoc'.....and let slip the dogs of war

     

     
  42. #142
    mechwira
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    yeah i've accepted my mythical really-do-it-all shoes does not exist.

    I totally need my kinvara for ultra-long (relative to my ability) for the cushion. I also need it for high speed work like intervals or ippt.

    but then i also need my minimus zero for steady running form and cadence training.

    i absolutely cannot do without these two. in fact a few weeks ago i bought a new pair of kinvara coz i suspect my first pair is about worn out in the cushion and cannot last longer than 15k in one go. i hope new balance does not screw up its next iteration of the minimus zero coz i probably will want a new pair in a few months.

    then i wanted a third pair which ideally is a blend of these two. i tot the virrata would be it, but i was dead wrong. then i bought the adidas gazelle.... sounded good on paper, looked good on the shelf, felt dam good on my feet in the store... but when properly pushed it turns out it was more show than go. haiz...

    wanted to try either the road glove or bare access, but the shop did not carry half sizes so could not find a properly fitting pair. wanted the skechers gobionic, but every outlet i visited only carried the gobionic ride, and the 'ride' in the name of every skechers shoe essentially meant a thicker sole/cushion version of an original design.

    so kinvara and minimus zero for me until they stop producing (or screw up a redesign), and still hunting for the ideal third pair. but spent too much liao, must tolerate the adidas for the time being.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

  43. #143
    vyruz
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    Weather's been hot. Hope you guys are staying strong and are fighting through the heat!
    Cry 'Havoc'.....and let slip the dogs of war

  44. #144
    ticks
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    That's why I run only at nights., lol.
    Ride fast..ride safe..don't crash...

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    Poos and wees. Woke up after my 10km on Wed with sharp pain in the area between the heel and arch of my right foot. Goes away after I move around a bit, but comes back if I rest and move around again. Still painful today.

    It would appear that I may have the awful, dreaded:



    mechwira, how long did you take to recover after you got it? Did you go on smaller runs anyway?

    ticks, night runs are good fun But I do most of my mileage as a commute home from work, so no choice. The pain of running in the evening heat is not as much as staying longer at work and leaving when the sun goes down
    Cry 'Havoc'.....and let slip the dogs of war

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    Not so bad already... I got the dreadful ITB syndrome... had to stop running for a while. No idea how long I can run before the problem re-occurs. Next Sunday die la...
    Past: KDX200, LC4 400, LC4 620, GSXR750WR
    Present: CBR900RRY, Gas Gas EC250, XR250L, XR250RV, XR400 (motard-ed), NX650 Dominator

  47. #147
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    21km in the 2XU next Sunday, ulysses_sc? Good luck and let us know how the event goes.

    I haven't done anything structured since very casual bouts of 5.6km at JP Morgan Chase events. Don't know why, but I'm hesitant to do a proper event until I see regular good training performance.
    Cry 'Havoc'.....and let slip the dogs of war

  48. #148
    mechwira
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    Quote Originally Posted by vyruz View Post
    Poos and wees. Woke up after my 10km on Wed with sharp pain in the area between the heel and arch of my right foot. Goes away after I move around a bit, but comes back if I rest and move around again. Still painful today.
    aiyah.... jialat liao lah.... yeah thats exactly my pain....

    it started like yours. then at that time still not knowledgeable, so continued running normally through the discomfort. after a week of the on-and-off pain and continued running, it became bad enough that i ended up limping for two days; the pain when first standing was sharp enough to scrunch up my face, then after a bit of walking it reduced but did not go away at all.

    by that stage, i could not run even if i wanted to; i couldn even walk properly. but i was too hooked on running. after 2 or 3 days of off-run, the pain reduced such that at least i could walk, but it still did not really go away completely.

    this lasted me three to four weeks before finally going away. and like i mentioned before, these three weeks i ended up 'resetting' my mileage coz i could not keep to my regular distance. if i forced myself, i would end up limping the rest of the day after the run. when the pain finally went away, i had to reclock my mileage. even now i still feel residual pain after long or hard runs, but its only a minor dull ache lasting no longer than a few hours after the run. people say the planta takes up to 6 months to fully recover....

    if this is initial onset, i strongly suggest 3 days off, and if the pain is gone, then a run at no more than half usual distance to test. if the pain comes back, you're in trouble. if the pain doesnt go away at all in 3 days, you're also in trouble. you've properly torn the ligament

    if the ligament is properly torn already, its the tight scar tissue that is causing the pain. scar tissue is totally not flexible like 'live' muscle or ligament. and so long as the scar tissue has not dissipated, you will continue feeling the pain; worse still if you keep pushing hard, because its tight it will cause new tears around the scar tissue. and scar tissue takes weeks, of not months, to fully dissipate

    whether its too late or not, i suggest twice a day foam roller or hard golf ball on the foot, especially at pain area. the pain means there is already scar tissue. self-myofascial release speeds up the process. if you have to give the run a miss, do so. take every run as a 'test' of whether you have healed. i forced myself to run at very reduced distances such that i could feel the pain very slowly getting less day by day, until it disappeared after three weeks plus. if the pain got worse after the run, i know i cannot yet do that distance so i reduce some more.

    and remember kids: prevention is better than cure. running drills and other core exercises are necessary to prevent running injuries once you go beyond 10k.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

  49. #149
    ticks
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    Quote Originally Posted by vyruz View Post
    Poos and wees. Woke up after my 10km on Wed with sharp pain in the area between the heel and arch of my right foot. Goes away after I move around a bit, but comes back if I rest and move around again. Still painful today.

    It would appear that I may have the awful, dreaded:
    I did get a pain on my left foot some time ago. It was on my outer perimeter of the foot, between my heel and my midfoot.. Mine was caused by an incorrect foot strike I think. Nowadays I land my feet flat on the floor instead of rotating from the outside front inwards to the balls of the foot. Hope the words makes sense. I think it did help cos I'm not having any issues now.
    Ride fast..ride safe..don't crash...

  50. #150
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    Bloody fool. Run tomorrow, last night kicked my leg against the bed leg.. Now toe pain. Zzz
    Ride fast..ride safe..don't crash...

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