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Thread: Caution buying used bikes

  1. #151
    mechwira
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    Quote Originally Posted by guangwei View Post
    At below 10 years old bike, and applying to my above said formulae, the % of depreciation are closer when comparing european bikes and jap bikes. the difference widen with age.
    because you use the same formula.

    if we agree the formula may not apply equally when market demand is not the same, we have to refer to evidence in the form of successfully sold secondhand models. that is a closer indication of depreciation.

    like you said, % depreciation does not have a modelled fixed percentage. its market demand. and market demand is prices of successfully sold bikes.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by guangwei View Post
    Some jap bikes do depreciate crazily fast too, like GSXR because suzuki completely abandons it, so I guess its hard to generalise which origin bikes depreciates faster. But a ducati 916 and RS250 is definitely noway as common as a CBR400RRR, RVF, and old spec1/2. You see there are more japanese bike that depreciates slow than europe bikes that depreciates slow.
    i think thats because Duc 916 last time was already rare to begin with, less rich people twenty years ago. and RS250, heck thats a 2-stroker commonly abused, no surprises it doesnt last.

    but well maybe i am guilty of generalizing. ultimately though, i still think that prices of successfully sold bikes is the indicator, not rarity. and i'd continue thinking so unless someone shows me that indeed in general conti bikes sell for same or lower % when compared to jap, for <10yr bikes and excluding unique collectibles like RVF.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

     

     
  3. #153
    guangwei
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    Quote Originally Posted by teambhp View Post
    Dep is around 3600 per yr for his bike .I have no idea how much a new one cost. If a new one cost 33000, then it's obvious the seller is overpricing his bike.
    depreciate is not fixed 3600 per year. that is a very simple calculation. lol
    even if you are just applying fundamental generalising

    like i said, depreciation goes slower. new bikes depreciate faster because it is losing its status as a new bike. old bike depreciates slower because the old bikes is just another similar old bike from 8 to 9 years old.
    17 Nov 2011 - April 2013, NSR150 SP
    12 June 2013 - 23 Jan 2015, CBR400RRR
    23 February 2015 - 29 February 2016, YZF R6 2006
    12 March 2016 - 12 May 2017, CBR1000RR05
    July 2017 - Current, YZF R1 2008/CBF150

  4. #154
    teambhp
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    Quote Originally Posted by guangwei View Post
    Exactly, avoid bikeshops because they are profit driven and they would not know the definition of 'paiseh' and 'feeling of guilt' after working in one of the darkest industry in SG for so many years(according to CASE, motorcycle dealer industry receive one of the highest complaints, just below the likes of mobile phone industry and cars industry)

    Can be many reasons why they wanna sell, could be because they are sick of a persistence prob, but trust me, SG people are generally too thin skinned to do this unless they are profit driven to do something like bikeshop, direct owners may makes plenty of effort to hide the prob, or they would rather just reveal it to you in fear of being expose by you. Because it would be massively paiseh and I can vouch for you SGrean are extremely afraid of paiseh. In addition, because most SG non mechanic industry people are dumb nuts in manual labour, mechanics works, even qualified engineer knows nuts, as most of us dont even have a own garages to experiment even the most basic step of changing engine oil, so its near mission impossible if they want to DIY to hide a very complex problem. This is not the case for bikeshop. I can tell you the most common reason people like to use for performance bike, is that they want to tone down and downgrade as performance litre bikes are not feasible in SG. They wanna quit the games bike.


    Some owner claims that, but if I sell the bike I wont say that, i'd reveal my bike flaws on the spot to the best of my knowledge. Your quite stupid if u believe an old bike is perfect flawless conditions. Its still better some of my bikeshop experience, they dont even rode the bike, yet they just claim their 10 years old SP are in perfect condition because it is the standard procedure and part of the scripts to sell any bikes. They literally read a model script as they can't possibly think and write a new script for every bikes they sell, not trying to be offensive, but bikeshop dealers are usually managed by mechanics with low education. They cant prepare a detailed report of the current health status/history of the bike for hundreds of bikes they are selling, unlike individual direct owners who tends to have a better track of their bike history and some are even to write a full detailed report, more transparent than the government's financial statement.


    Bikeshop dont bother about this as well, saw a poor dude who just passed 2B bought a TZM150, bike comes with 1 week warranty. For the first 1 week, the bike was perfect, but exactly 7 days later, once the warranty ended, the whole clutch system broke down. He thought it was a nice deal until the 8th day. Amateur owners in SG usually donno how to do advanced work to hide your mentioned 'internal leaks within the engine that cannot be seen by the naked eye', while the risk of such incident is not 100% foolproof with direct owners purchase, the likelihood with shops is even higher because the shop dealers have mechanics to do the advanced/dark work to hide the prob. I have witnessed it, experienced it.


    Know shop that did something worse to the above TZM dude. Poor dude.
    Coolant seeping into combustion chamber, u confirm cannot rev decently anymore. Remember to at least rev your bike.


    All in all, buying from direct owners can be dangerous and risky too depending on your human skills to judge the person.
    Buying from shop is even far far more dangerous as the dealer are much much more experience than you and if he ever decides to chop you, no matter how street smart of a person you are, you will be at the losing hand.
    Are you from a bikeshop yourself? lol
    If i from bikeshop,I would not start this thread.direct sellers can also go to bikeshops to ask the mech to cover up the problems. No matter buy from who,it's best to send it for an inspection

  5. #155
    guangwei
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    Quote Originally Posted by mechwira View Post
    i think thats because Duc 916 last time was already rare to begin with, less rich people twenty years ago. and RS250, heck thats a 2-stroker commonly abused, no surprises it doesnt last.

    but well maybe i am guilty of generalizing. ultimately though, i still think that prices of successfully sold bikes is the indicator, not rarity. and i'd continue thinking so unless someone shows me that indeed in general conti bikes sell for same or lower % when compared to jap, for <10yr bikes and excluding unique collectibles like RVF.
    I would put it the way that, there are more slow depreciating jap bikes than slow depreciating european bikes from a quick look around the used bikes sales section. 20yo Spec 1/2, fireblades bikes still can sell for 2k-3k machine value. And they are everywhere. SP KRR, they are insanely abused in my youth days. My friends abuses it, crash it, and they are still everywhere even tho it halted production 10+ years ago. Put it online for $300 without COE, and they are gone instantly. THey have 200k mileage and still kicking. Can RS250 tank 200k mileage handled by my 18yo friend who self skid on the first day day after he passes 2B?
    KR did. He sold his bike in usable conditions.

    but if u talk about rare unique collectible, maybe european bike have these too.
    Last edited by guangwei; 21-05-2015 at 08:01 PM.
    17 Nov 2011 - April 2013, NSR150 SP
    12 June 2013 - 23 Jan 2015, CBR400RRR
    23 February 2015 - 29 February 2016, YZF R6 2006
    12 March 2016 - 12 May 2017, CBR1000RR05
    July 2017 - Current, YZF R1 2008/CBF150

  6. #156
    guangwei
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    Quote Originally Posted by teambhp View Post
    If i from bikeshop,I would not start this thread.direct sellers can also go to bikeshops to ask the mech to cover up the problems. No matter buy from who,it's best to send it for an inspection
    judging from your calcuation, im overpricing my r6 severely. my r6 value is near 0 at 8 years old already.
    10 years old can might as well give u for free already, or sell u for few hundred kopi money.
    Last edited by guangwei; 21-05-2015 at 07:43 PM.
    17 Nov 2011 - April 2013, NSR150 SP
    12 June 2013 - 23 Jan 2015, CBR400RRR
    23 February 2015 - 29 February 2016, YZF R6 2006
    12 March 2016 - 12 May 2017, CBR1000RR05
    July 2017 - Current, YZF R1 2008/CBF150

  7. #157
    mechwira
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    Quote Originally Posted by guangwei View Post
    I would put it the way that, there are more slow depreciating jap bikes than slow depreciating european bikes from a quick look around the used bikes sales section. 20yo Spec 1/2, fireblades bikes still can sell for 2k-3k machine value. And they are everywhere. SP KRR, they are insanely abused in my youth days. My friends abuses it, crash it, and they are still everywhere even tho it halted production 10+ years ago. Put it online for $300 without COE, and they are gone instantly. THey have 200k mileage and still kicking. Can RS250 tank 200k mileage handled by my 18yo friend who self skid on the first day day after he passes 2B?
    KR did. He sold his bike in usable conditions.

    but if u talk about rare unique collectible, maybe european bike have these too.
    lets compare equivalents. i have no arguments about how the legendary 2b 2-strokers can still sell today, but i think a conti vs jap discussion requires a comparison of equivalents.

    Ducati 1199 vs Kawasaki ZX-10R
    Honda Africa Twin vs KTM Super Adventure
    Ducati Monster vs Yamaha FZ-8
    BMW R1200 vs Honda ST1200
    Aprilia RS4-125 vs Honda CBR150

    if we compare a general list of such equivalents, would their secondhand prices show that more japanese makes hold value better than conti makes? like i said, i would be surprised if they do.
    Last edited by mechwira; 21-05-2015 at 08:35 PM.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

  8. #158
    guangwei
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    Let me make a rough estimate Chart for a 2008 registered R1 of 2 cycles of COE, to explain further what i mean on how the local markets works through stimulation

    Year 2008, retail price, 28k
    Year 2009, 2nd hand market price, 24k (depreciates 4k from its retail price )
    year 2010, 2nd hand market price, 20.5k (depreciates 3.5k from its year 2009 price)
    year 2011, 2nd hand market price, 17k (depreciates 3k from its 2010 price)
    year 2012, 2nd hand market price, 15k (depreciates 2k from 2011 price) [already finished losing status as new bike, depreciation stabilising]
    year 2013, 2nd hand market price, 13.85k (depreciates 1.25k from 2012 price)
    year 2014, 2hand market price, 12.5k (depreciates 1.35k from 2013 price)
    year 2015, 2haand market price, 11.3k (depreciates 1.2k from 2014 price)
    year 2016, 2hand market price, 10k (depreciates 1.3k from 2015 price)
    year 2017, 2hand market price, 9k (depreciates 1k from 2016 price)
    year 2018, 2hand market price, 8k (depreciates 1k) + 6.5k =14.5k
    [end of coe renewed, coe cost 6501 for example. value of bike for 2019 gets bonus + 6.5k as a result of boosted COE]
    year 2019, 2hand market price 6.5k (COE Boost) + 7.1k (Bike values that depreciates 0.9k from 2018 value of 8k) = 13.6k - (0.65k * n) where n is number of years since COE was renewed, in this case n=1 [Taking into consideration 10 year of COE is worth 6.5k, 1 year loss of COE from 2019 to 2020 is 1/10 * 6.5k = 0.65k] = 12.95k
    year 2020, 2hand market price 6.5k (COE Boost) + 6.2k (Bike values that depreciates 0.8k from 2019 value of 7.1k) = 12.7k - 0.65k * n (In this case n=2) = 11.4k
    year 2021, 2hand market price 6.5k (COE Boost) + 5.5k (Bike values that depreciates 0.7k from 2020 value of 6.2k) = 12k - 0.65k * n (In this case n=3) = 10.05k
    year 2022, 2hand market price 6.5k (COE Boost) + 4.9k (Bike values that depreciates 0.6k from 2021 value of 5.5k) = 11.4k - 0.65k * n (In this case n=4) = 8.8k
    year 2023, 2hand market price 6.5k (COE Boost) + 4.4k (Bike values that depreciates 0.5k from 2022 value of 4.9k) = 10.9k - 0.65k * n (In this case n=5) = 7.65k
    year 2024, 2hand market price 6.5k (COE Boost) + 3.9k (Bike values that depreciates 0.5k from 2023 value of 4.4k) = 10.4k - 0.65k * n (In this case n=6) = 6.5k
    year 2025, 2hand market price 6.5k (COE Boost) + 3.4k (Bike values that depreciates 0.5k from 2024 value of 3.9k) = 9.9k - 0.65k * n (In this case n=7) = 5.35k
    year 2026, unlucky owner suddenly realise a major problem occurring in the engine signifying the end of the lifespan of the bike. full overhaul cost few 4k-5k, and its much more than the machine value. decides to scrap the bike. bike deregistered incentive receivable is equal to the coe value. say coe ends at 2028. coe available is 2/10 of what i have hence (2/10 * 6.5k) = 1.3k. owner receive 1.3k kopi money for scrapping bike and returning the unused coe to bidding pool. machine value of rough estimate, 3.5k is lost for the loss of vehicle.

    End of bike lifespan.
    Does not take into consideration the fluctuation of COE value and changes in the popularity of bikes.

    Go dig around used bike section for reference it will explain to u why crazy people are selling their bike at insane prices that you do not deem normal and look iillogical to u.
    17 Nov 2011 - April 2013, NSR150 SP
    12 June 2013 - 23 Jan 2015, CBR400RRR
    23 February 2015 - 29 February 2016, YZF R6 2006
    12 March 2016 - 12 May 2017, CBR1000RR05
    July 2017 - Current, YZF R1 2008/CBF150

  9. #159
    mechwira
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    Quote Originally Posted by guangwei View Post

    Go dig around used bike section for reference it will explain to u why crazy people are selling their bike at insane prices that you do not deem normal and look iillogical to u.
    sorry, err.... this one is reference the discussion between the two of us of conti vs jap or reference your discussion with teambhp?

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

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    guangwei
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    Quote Originally Posted by mechwira View Post
    sorry, err.... this one is reference the discussion between the two of us of conti vs jap or reference your discussion with teambhp?
    teambhp


    Quote Originally Posted by mechwira View Post
    lets compare equivalents. i have no arguments about how the legendary 2b 2-strokers can still sell today, but i think a conti vs jap discussion requires a comparison of equivalents.

    Ducati 1199 vs Kawasaki ZX-10R
    Honda Africa Twin vs KTM Super Adventure
    Ducati Monster vs Yamaha FZ-8
    BMW R1200 vs Honda ST1200
    Aprilia RS4-125 vs Honda CBR150

    if we compare a general list of such equivalents, would their secondhand prices show that more japanese makes hold value better than conti makes? like i said, i would be surprised if they do.
    Some of you comparisom are the most popular european bike with the less popular jap bikes. of course most european bike listed in this case would have a better rate of depreciation. you should compare popular jap bikes with popular europe bike for a fair fight or junkie euro bike with junkie jap bike.

    Ducati 1199 vs YZF-R1 2011
    Aprilia RS4-125 vs Yamaha YZF-R125


    However it seems like your definition of depreciation is by comparing value depreciation, while what i defines depreciation is not just value depreciation, but overall depreciation that includes popularity depreciation, existence depreciation and value depreciation.
    Lets compare the 4 listed bikes in my example where popular jap bikes clashes with popular european bike.
    After 10 years old from since they are registered, the YZF r1 and yzf r125 remain highly demand, easily sold bikes.
    the rs125 & ducati 1199 moves to the collectibles as they becomes rarer and rarer as more people scrap their bikes by the end of first coe cycle. However take note that enthu collectors are insufficient in population quantity to represent the functionality of the market.

    Would u see on the street a ducati 1199 for another 10 years down the road? 2nd hand buyers for general use would appreciates the 2011 r1 definitely at the year 2025, even if they are getting it for track purposes. maybe if u can somehow preserve the ducati 1199 for 10 years down the road, monetary value would be rocket high to certain rare few exceptional people and thats it that cannot represent anything.
    The less popular european bikes literally becomes junks if they failed to convert themselves into rare collectibles. I dont know enough about less popular old europe bike because i dont even saw them on the market, but u see weird cb125 appearing out of nowhere for sale still not deemed fully depreciated in the market but u dun see the retro husqvarna for more than once a year, unless you are an odd collectibles like 1 in a million of population kind and can't represent a market, only then u would appreciate a useless junk for ur museum..

    the market of old jap bikes is way way bigger than the market of old euro bike, which have barely any sign of existence. also once u decides to scrap your bike, the bike is depreciated to a monetary value of $0 instantly in strict financial terms. the popular euro bikes listed that fails to survives to the collectibles state suffer from this.

    meaning to say, if u keep a hp4 for general and track use for 10 years, you are bond to lose more money than if u keep a r1 of similar age for similar use for 10 years.
    Last edited by guangwei; 21-05-2015 at 09:40 PM.
    17 Nov 2011 - April 2013, NSR150 SP
    12 June 2013 - 23 Jan 2015, CBR400RRR
    23 February 2015 - 29 February 2016, YZF R6 2006
    12 March 2016 - 12 May 2017, CBR1000RR05
    July 2017 - Current, YZF R1 2008/CBF150

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    mechwira
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    Quote Originally Posted by guangwei View Post


    However it seems like your definition of depreciation is by comparing value depreciation, while what i defines depreciation is not just value depreciation, but overall depreciation that includes popularity depreciation, existence depreciation and value depreciation.
    ok. i will admit that all this while i have considered only monetary value, i.e purely how much cold hard cash you can get as second hand when comparing the two makes. to be fair though, when people around the world say that conti models have lower depreciation, i believe they also mean purely monetary value.

    if you talk about popularity and existence etc etc, i guess in a sense if we consider only singapore, perhaps it could be true of jap makes.

    possibly because in most western markets, owners are skilled enough and have the freedom to mod, repair and rebuild their bikes, contis hold better value. they say jap engines last far longer than western engines, but when the jap engine is done, its done; whereas western engines can be rebuilt. well, that plus the not-so-easily-explained perception that old western vehicles are more stylo than old jap vehicles. but in singapore with more restrictive mod regulations and far less owners with the time and skills for properly caring and rebuilding western engines, beyond ten years old they'd rather stick to the reliable japanese. maybe.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

     

     
  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by guangwei View Post

    meaning to say, if u keep a hp4 for general and track use for 10 years, you are bond to lose more money than if u keep a r1 of similar age for similar use for 10 years.
    purely on the assumption that the HP4 is done and cannot go on whereas the R1 can go on another ten, sure. if this assumption holds true which i am not fully convinced. but well you're entitled to your opinion.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mechwira View Post
    purely on the assumption that the HP4 is done and cannot go on whereas the R1 can go on another ten, sure. if this assumption holds true which i am not fully convinced. but well you're entitled to your opinion.
    I had not saw a s1000rr with 100k+ mileage on the market before but i saw r1 with near 200k mileage already. im quite sure s1000rr dont survive to 200k without being near fully depreciated.
    17 Nov 2011 - April 2013, NSR150 SP
    12 June 2013 - 23 Jan 2015, CBR400RRR
    23 February 2015 - 29 February 2016, YZF R6 2006
    12 March 2016 - 12 May 2017, CBR1000RR05
    July 2017 - Current, YZF R1 2008/CBF150

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    Quote Originally Posted by guangwei View Post
    I had not saw a s1000rr with 100k+ mileage on the market before but i saw r1 with near 200k mileage already. im quite sure s1000rr dont survive to 200k without being near fully depreciated.
    i suppose we have reduced our discussion to one last disagreement.

    if a conti bike cannot last beyond ten years, whereas jap makes can, therefore mathematically the depreciation of the conti bike over its entire shorter lifespan would be higher as compared to the depreciation of the jap bike over its entire longer lifespan.

    mathematically, the above would be correct.

    i still diagree on the 'if', but well i suppose thats fine.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mechwira View Post
    i suppose we have reduced our discussion to one last disagreement.

    if a conti bike cannot last beyond ten years, whereas jap makes can, therefore mathematically the depreciation of the conti bike over its entire shorter lifespan would be higher as compared to the depreciation of the jap bike over its entire longer lifespan.

    mathematically, the above would be correct.

    i still diagree on the 'if', but well i suppose thats fine.
    at least for sg, that 'if' applies, or unless u prove it wrong and market your bike to change the perception of euro bike?
    =]
    17 Nov 2011 - April 2013, NSR150 SP
    12 June 2013 - 23 Jan 2015, CBR400RRR
    23 February 2015 - 29 February 2016, YZF R6 2006
    12 March 2016 - 12 May 2017, CBR1000RR05
    July 2017 - Current, YZF R1 2008/CBF150

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    All bikes can live very long if maintained properly. All. That includes your Italians, German and Japanese bikes. You never maintain your cheap LC135 also it won't last that long. Its mindset. It's more expensive to keep a poorly maintained Jap than a properly maintained Conti.

    Anyway I think it's silly to buy a 10k 15yr high mileage old bike with anything less than a fully overhauled engine meaning new sleeves, pistons etc.

    With 10k I could get a brand new 2B bike or even down payment for a new class 2 bike of any make both of which would be most likely more reliable.

    Resale value is all about assumptions and demand according to those assumptions. Most people assume jap bikes are more reliable therefor you can sell one at value even if there are no more spares, it's in poor condition vs a lesser known conti like let's say old Ktm even if it's low mileage.
    Last edited by Jehuty; 24-05-2015 at 01:41 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mechwira View Post
    ok. i will admit that all this while i have considered only monetary value, i.e purely how much cold hard cash you can get as second hand when comparing the two makes. to be fair though, when people around the world say that conti models have lower depreciation, i believe they also mean purely monetary value.

    if you talk about popularity and existence etc etc, i guess in a sense if we consider only singapore, perhaps it could be true of jap makes.

    possibly because in most western markets, owners are skilled enough and have the freedom to mod, repair and rebuild their bikes, contis hold better value. they say jap engines last far longer than western engines, but when the jap engine is done, its done; whereas western engines can be rebuilt. well, that plus the not-so-easily-explained perception that old western vehicles are more stylo than old jap vehicles. but in singapore with more restrictive mod regulations and far less owners with the time and skills for properly caring and rebuilding western engines, beyond ten years old they'd rather stick to the reliable japanese. maybe.
    Because they don't have COE, they can keep their vehicles forever. If no COE it would be worth it to get something fixed, with COE might as well trash it and get new. Wish our govt had COE on themselves

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    I think the seller now are making used of the current coe. I just did a transfer for a class 2a bike with coe until 2023. Brought it for 3.6k. Sure there is some minor maintainenc that needs to be performed, which bike don't. But my suggestion is look slowly. You will sure come across a reasonable seller. Don't let those free loader gain the advantages.

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    Quote Originally Posted by baby&sky View Post
    I think the seller now are making used of the current coe. I just did a transfer for a class 2a bike with coe until 2023. Brought it for 3.6k. Sure there is some minor maintainenc that needs to be performed, which bike don't. But my suggestion is look slowly. You will sure come across a reasonable seller. Don't let those free loader gain the advantages.
    When I post in the seller thread that his bike is expensive, I got a warning from admin. Now I can only keep my mouth shut. You guys dun follow my mistake

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    Quote Originally Posted by baby&sky View Post
    I think the seller now are making used of the current coe. I just did a transfer for a class 2a bike with coe until 2023. Brought it for 3.6k. Sure there is some minor maintainenc that needs to be performed, which bike don't. But my suggestion is look slowly. You will sure come across a reasonable seller. Don't let those free loader gain the advantages.
    it's not free loader lah... of cos u have to sell things at the current market price n not based on the various factors instead of just looking at depreciation n original buying price. this is common sense
    Liverpool revival has started....

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    Since you all listing high depre bikes. can i list my low depre bike for sale?

    about $900/yr R6! please buy
    http://www.singaporebikes.com/forums...t=#post8342018
    this is not me!

     

     
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    Quote Originally Posted by zyrofillica View Post
    Since you all listing high depre bikes. can i list my low depre bike for sale?

    about $900/yr R6! please buy
    http://www.singaporebikes.com/forums...t=#post8342018
    yeah, great buy since only 35K mileage. Like a 2 year old bike instead of 12 year old!
    Liverpool revival has started....

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    Quote Originally Posted by kzone View Post
    yeah, great buy since only 35K mileage. Like a 2 year old bike instead of 12 year old!
    Such an old bike.. Who wanna buy?might have to spend even more to repair. Caution words for all... Never believe seller tell you bike in good condition. Always send to a workshop for inspection

  24. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by teambhp View Post
    Such an old bike.. Who wanna buy?might have to spend even more to repair. Caution words for all... Never believe seller tell you bike in good condition. Always send to a workshop for inspection
    old bikes, no prob. sure got ppl who wants if at the right price but caveat emptor as usual
    Liverpool revival has started....

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    Quote Originally Posted by teambhp View Post
    Such an old bike.. Who wanna buy?might have to spend even more to repair. Caution words for all... Never believe seller tell you bike in good condition. Always send to a workshop for inspection
    why you shoot me down. Now no one wants to buy my terrible bike. Do you only ride brand new bikes?
    this is not me!

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    Quote Originally Posted by zyrofillica View Post
    why you shoot me down. Now no one wants to buy my terrible bike. Do you only ride brand new bikes?
    Someone will buy it one day. Who dun want a brand new bike if he can afford it? Not that I wanna shoot you down. But put yourself in the buyers shoes n you will understand

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    Quote Originally Posted by kzone View Post
    old bikes, no prob. sure got ppl who wants if at the right price but caveat emptor as usual
    The key word is right price.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teambhp View Post
    Someone will buy it one day. Who dun want a brand new bike if he can afford it? Not that I wanna shoot you down. But put yourself in the buyers shoes n you will understand
    So maybe i need your advise what price i should sell it at? I think all of us here have experience buying old bikes. Only those newbie just pass class 2b might walk into a deal blindly. anyway have you sold your used bike before?

    But sidenote, comparing bike shop and private seller, who do you think will have higher chance about being honest with the bike for sale. A salesman who earns commission, has to cover costs relating to rental/wages/profit tax and who has no idea on history of the bike or nor has rode it in his life? Or the guy who relies on his faithful steed to carry him everyday to work safely and reliably?
    this is not me!

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    Quote Originally Posted by zyrofillica View Post
    So maybe i need your advise what price i should sell it at? I think all of us here have experience buying old bikes. Only those newbie just pass class 2b might walk into a deal blindly. anyway have you sold your used bike before?

    But sidenote, comparing bike shop and private seller, who do you think will have higher chance about being honest with the bike for sale. A salesman who earns commission, has to cover costs relating to rental/wages/profit tax and who has no idea on history of the bike or nor has rode it in his life? Or the guy who relies on his faithful steed to carry him everyday to work safely and reliably?
    I have no right to tell you what price to sell.you decide n if can sell, congratulations lor

  30. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by teambhp View Post
    Dear Readers

    There are many bikes on sales in this forum. Some are from direct owners and some are from bikeshops.

    I would like to caution about buying from direct owners. Some of the questions you should think about are

    1) Owner has changed a lot of parts on the bike, added accesssories etc. Some even overhauled the engine and claim that bike is in good condtion. Think about it! Why would anyone in the world spend money to repair the bike, then sell it off to you?

    2) All bikes have wear and tear items. The older the bike, the more problematic it is. Yet there are sellers claiming that the bike is in prefect condtion. How is that possible? Even new bikes are not prefect.

    3) Assuming you find a really good offer. Seller dilligently maintain bike. Outlook is good. Wear and tear parts replaced and there are receipts to prove. You want to buy from him/her. Please think again. Outlook can be done nicely. Parts can be replaced by a good seller. One word of caution though....Internal leaks within the engine that cannot be seen by the naked eye.

    For example, if the bike has excessive oil consumption problem, you will not know it till you have clocked up some mileage. By the time you know, it is too late. How about coolant seeping into the combustion chamber slowly? It will be months later before the bike will give out smoke. Do you have recourse? Anwer is NO.

    Therefore, please buy with care and ride safe.
    then you should just buy new bikes
    Current Ride:
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  31. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by teambhp View Post
    A new bike has less depreciation than an old bike. A new r6 is selling for around 25k at Hong leong. Its depreciation is 2.5k per year.why not you find a second hand r6 that depreciation less than that?
    unless you are buying full cash. lol
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  32. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by zyrofillica View Post
    why you shoot me down. Now no one wants to buy my terrible bike. Do you only ride brand new bikes?
    bro... since ur mileage is only 35K, u need to super emphasize this. Like I said, this is like a 2 year old bike mileage so the wear & tear is equivalent to a 2 year old! There will be many who doubt that the mileage is really that low so you need to really "proof" this. Show original parts that are not worn etc
    Liverpool revival has started....

  33. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by teambhp View Post
    Such an old bike.. Who wanna buy?might have to spend even more to repair. Caution words for all... Never believe seller tell you bike in good condition. Always send to a workshop for inspection
    bro, you keep saying send to workshop to inspect? who are you referring to?

    Buying old bikes sure have to repair one leh. If want problem free bike, please buy new from dealer.
    Current Ride:
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    Quote Originally Posted by 736cc View Post
    bro, you keep saying send to workshop to inspect? who are you referring to?

    Buying old bikes sure have to repair one leh. If want problem free bike, please buy new from dealer.
    If u are not so experienced, I agree that shud bring to workshop to assess. Not for all problems but major ones like engine overhaul, gear box, clutch, eat oil, rectifier & those that costs quite abit to repair.
    Liverpool revival has started....

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    Quote Originally Posted by kzone View Post
    If u are not so experienced, I agree that shud bring to workshop to assess. Not for all problems but major ones like engine overhaul, gear box, clutch, eat oil, rectifier & those that costs quite abit to repair.
    Thanks for the clarification

  36. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by zyrofillica View Post
    Since you all listing high depre bikes. can i list my low depre bike for sale?

    about $900/yr R6! please buy
    http://www.singaporebikes.com/forums...t=#post8342018
    I like it but too bad i dont have the cash
    Too me its reasonable price

  37. #187
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    Hi guys.
    I might be seen as a newbie judging by my post.
    I was actively active in mycarforum instead of here due to i drove.

    But now with crazy coe for cars and my car is going to be scrap in oct, i was thinking of getting back on bikes.
    Last i rode was in 2005.

    I was out of touch for so long and was surprise by the ridiculous price of bikes on market currently.

    Im glad TS start this thread as i was bash by a seller in one of fb bike groups trying to gain more profit when selling his bikes. To be honest most humans will maximise profit and minimise loss. So cant blame them. Now is consider sellers market due to coe high.

    Regarding of depreciation. Yes bikes probably be $0 at the end of 10 years cause they dont have parf value like cars.
    So really good luck to those sellers selling high price.

    Regarding of bike condition, i consider it as luck.

    Heres how i actually estimate a bike value. This is base on my opinion. Although bike dont have parf value, they have OMV value. How do i value bikes is i take their omv + coe and divide by 10 years. Then i took the current coe price and divide by number of years left.
    For example my friend fz1 was bought in 2008 for about $18k (machine + coe ($2000 if not mistaken) + admin). His omv is 10k.
    So his omv + coe is 12k. Bike left 3 years so that is 3.6k. Plus current coe of 6k divide by 10 × 3 give me 1.8k.
    3.6k + 1.8k = 5.4k. Plus maybe another 1k. Im willing to pay 6.5k thats give me 2.1k depreciation.
    For more than years bike i take their omv 50% of the original amount plus the coe renew and current coe. Thats give me estimate amount i willing to pay.

    Please dont flame me as this is the formula i use in order not to overpaid a bike by too much.
    Like i said at the end of 10 years either the seller got to fork out cash to renew coe or receive $10 to $20 from scrap yard if he cant sell off his bike.

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    Also when buying carry on installments, please calculate the total amount you going to spend eg cash + number of monthly installments left and compare the bike value on the market.

    My bad and noob experience back in 90s was buying from a friend a honda hurricane with 8 years coe left. Installments is $200 x 24 mths = $4800. After transfer found out the market value for the bike is only $2500!.
    Worse after few weeks bikes give problem like rectifier spoil, wheel bearing gone, clutch cable snap. When i feedback the seller he just shrug it off as its not his taichi anymore.

    Hopefully my experience can help newbies to be more wiser when shopping for a bike.

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    COI is a dumb practice....too much risk involve for both parties....not sure why it is practised for bikes.....never hear of such things for cars.

  40. #190
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    cars also have ah... but usually between close friends n relatives
    Liverpool revival has started....

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    better to be clean cut transaction...later because of money close friends and relatives also can fall out.....

     

     
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    Up for awareness.

  43. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by filtered View Post
    better to be clean cut transaction...later because of money close friends and relatives also can fall out.....
    yeah, on the other hand.. if close enough friends & relatives, can make use of this arrangement for a win win solution.
    Liverpool revival has started....

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    looks like coe will crash soon.... interesting to see how used bikes seller reacts.
    Liverpool revival has started....

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    dont hold your breath

    down few hundred, next bidding up few hundred agn....looks like it will stabilise ard the 6k+ region

  46. #196
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    New cabinet need to make their mark in their new roles n KBW is known to make changes in all his past ministries. it will really be interesting to see what path he will choose... create separate categories or keep as per current but adjust the outflow to open category. The "problem" now is that there more well to do people buying lifestyle bikes and the younger crowd are also earning better to buy bigger bikes, willing to pay high coe... also many of the older bikers now buying their "dream" bikes that they are unable to afford when younger. all these add up to the strong demand and higher budget for coe/bikes.
    Liverpool revival has started....

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    Actually had an interesting discussion the other day with a bike dealer friend, and he mentioned that on the contrary, large proportion of the demand is for 'bread n butter' bikes, who have no choice but to buy even with high COE.

    The so called 'lifestyle bikes', although the more affluent buyers can afford to pay the COE, but not many are willing to pay. What for no reason pay govt 6k for nothing? So these group of buyers can afford to wait, either for COE to come down or wait for dealerships to throw in promotions like free COE etc.

    Seldom see offers of free COE for those bread and butter bikes, but you do see promotions from the bigger brands.

    KBW now is transport minister, sekali bike coe no $8k no talk...lol

  48. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by filtered View Post
    Actually had an interesting discussion the other day with a bike dealer friend, and he mentioned that on the contrary, large proportion of the demand is for 'bread n butter' bikes, who have no choice but to buy even with high COE.

    The so called 'lifestyle bikes', although the more affluent buyers can afford to pay the COE, but not many are willing to pay. What for no reason pay govt 6k for nothing? So these group of buyers can afford to wait, either for COE to come down or wait for dealerships to throw in promotions like free COE etc.

    Seldom see offers of free COE for those bread and butter bikes, but you do see promotions from the bigger brands.

    KBW now is transport minister, sekali bike coe no $8k no talk...lol
    Agreed.

    No bike shop will tell their customers " wait! dun buy ... COE will come down" They will say " buy now! COE will go up to 8k to 10K". Those who need it to make a living, LL gotta to buy.

  49. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by filtered View Post
    Actually had an interesting discussion the other day with a bike dealer friend, and he mentioned that on the contrary, large proportion of the demand is for 'bread n butter' bikes, who have no choice but to buy even with high COE.

    The so called 'lifestyle bikes', although the more affluent buyers can afford to pay the COE, but not many are willing to pay. What for no reason pay govt 6k for nothing? So these group of buyers can afford to wait, either for COE to come down or wait for dealerships to throw in promotions like free COE etc.

    Seldom see offers of free COE for those bread and butter bikes, but you do see promotions from the bigger brands.

    KBW now is transport minister, sekali bike coe no $8k no talk...lol
    yes, bigger portion still the bread n butter bikes. but the share has reduced. Registrations of basic bikes is on the downward trend while "luxury bikes" on the increase.
    Liverpool revival has started....

  50. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by swoosh View Post
    Agreed.

    No bike shop will tell their customers " wait! dun buy ... COE will come down" They will say " buy now! COE will go up to 8k to 10K". Those who need it to make a living, LL gotta to buy.
    They sell more, more commission.

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