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Thread: Helmet without PSB stickers

  1. #1
    Sgbedok
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    Default Helmet without PSB stickers



    Anyone knows if a seller can sells helmet without sticker online?

    Any penalty? Fined? Etc?


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    reize
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    Can sell, there is no law saying you cannot sell a helmet without PSB sticker.

    The onus is on the rider.

    By right cannot ride with a helmet without PSB sticker, by left nobody gives a ****.
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    ajahajah
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sgbedok View Post
    Anyone knows if a seller can sells helmet without sticker online?

    Any penalty? Fined? Etc?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    nvr get caught so far but many sellers do not have psb stick on new helmets. Besides, it may cost more if you get one with psb sticker.

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    kaiq
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    To me, the main issue of PSB is not when buying and selling - it's when accident happens and insurance claim is involved. There's this urban legend that if the insurance investigator is nitpicking, he can just say I am using a non-approved helmet and void my case.

    And I won't go for Malaysia or Indonesia approved helmets, cos mostly are using quick release instead of d-ring - I don't trust the mechanism to last over a few years without getting loose.

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    kzone
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    What if I bought a PSB approved helmet but I removed the sticker? So I'm actually wearing an approved helmet but no sticker to proof.
    Liverpool revival has started....

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    reize
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    Quote Originally Posted by kzone View Post
    What if I bought a PSB approved helmet but I removed the sticker? So I'm actually wearing an approved helmet but no sticker to proof.
    The sticker is the proof. Take off the sticker and no more proof of approval. Most helmets don't have an imprinted batch number to identify it as being from an approved lot.

    Also, the whole urban legend that your insurance won't pay you because you didn't ride with a PSB helmet is just a legend (partially). An insurance company cannot deny paying out your life insurance policy on the basis of that alone if you die as long as they cannot find proof of fraud or intentional suicide.

    If it's just personal injury, it is even lagi harder for your insurance company to prove anything related to your helmet as long as you don't mention it when making a claim from your personal injury/health insurance policy. I got knocked down by a car before and went to hospital, paid the initial costs of the hospital fees with my insurance while waiting for the lawsuit against the driver. Not once was I asked about the helmet amongst the other questions. They still did the appropriate payout. I have never worn a PSB stickered helmet except when doing my Class 2B -> Class 2.

    Your biggest worry with no PSB sticker helmet is really just the TP if they want to be anal, but nowadays TP aren't so free or anal to catch you for something so simple and inconsequential as long as you are in safe gear and not riding recklessly.
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    kzone
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    Quote Originally Posted by reize View Post
    Your biggest worry with no PSB sticker helmet is really just the TP if they want to be anal, but nowadays TP aren't so free or anal to catch you for something so simple and inconsequential as long as you are in safe gear and not riding recklessly.
    I was stopped for something, but they didn't check my helmet. Just ask for my license then ask y I did that offence...

    btw, since PSB requires batch testing, y don't they have records of the tested batch? And I don't understand y they paste the stickers outside rather than inside the helmet.
    Liverpool revival has started....

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    reize
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    Quote Originally Posted by kzone View Post
    btw, since PSB requires batch testing, y don't they have records of the tested batch? And I don't understand y they paste the stickers outside rather than inside the helmet.
    They have records of the tested batch. The problem is your helmet doesn't have any batch number or ID number on it, not like the VIN number on motorcycles. So PSB, the retailer and manufacturer only identify whether the helmet is from the particular batch based on shipping manifest and crating, and when sold to someone, can only identify using the PSB sticker. No PSB sticker, no idea if it's a tested helmet.

    The sticker is pasted outside for easy identification, they're difficult to peel off by itself anyway unless someone purposely picks at it. The stickers are also added after testing and manufacturing, who has the time to dismantle the helmet and stick it inside and then reassemble again?
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  9. #9
    mechwira
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    the law only applies to commercial retailers, those are the ones who cannot sell non-psb helmets. all private sales between private individuals are covered differently, and the law does not apply. this includes the lemon law. not applicable to private sales and transactions.

    with regards to the insurance, actually insurance company can jolly well decide who they want to payout and who they dont want, for watever reason. remember a few years ago the speeding ferrari they dont want to pay because the ferrari speeding. when this happens, the insurer can be brought to court, as happened in the ferrari case. and if the case is about psb helmet, the onus is on the insurer to prove that the helmet was unsafe, and not just merely no psb test.

    that is technically what can happen. the insured must bring to court, then the insurer must prove his case beyond merely "no sticker". messy on both sides; the insured and the insurer. but like everyone says, nobody has actually known of this actually happening.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

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    Yahmarhuh
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    Quote Originally Posted by mechwira View Post
    the law only applies to commercial retailers, those are the ones who cannot sell non-psb helmets.
    some retailers exist to sell non psb helmets almost exclusively.

  11. #11
    kaiq
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    They labelled them "for export" to keep out of trouble.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yahmarhuh View Post
    some retailers exist to sell non psb helmets almost exclusively.

     

     
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    mechwira
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yahmarhuh View Post
    some retailers exist to sell non psb helmets almost exclusively.
    no need to tell me. the law is the law. its against the law. they do and authorities never enforce is a different matter.

    i just bought my full face, no psb. not even a sign 'for export only'. it still doesnt erase the fact that technically against the law to sell, like non LTA approved PMD's.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

  13. #13
    pufferfis
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    Quote Originally Posted by mechwira View Post
    no need to tell me. the law is the law. its against the law. they do and authorities never enforce is a different matter.

    i just bought my full face, no psb. not even a sign 'for export only'. it still doesnt erase the fact that technically against the law to sell, like non LTA approved PMD's.
    I love my non psb nolan ....use a strong clipped.......stopped by tp also nothing abt helmet.....talk abt why i overtake him...hahahaha....lane clear...u behind truck so i overtake la....sometimes tp also goondu...
    I ride at 70km/hr only...please please dont blow2 at me or overtake me dangerously....wait i change into Incredible Hulk n dont know why my little baby bike will always be ahead of u if u do that

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    kaiq
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    TP also riders like us, only diff is they have authoritative power. Most tp won't bother with helmets unless u looked too dumb or trying too hard to look smart.

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    Yahmarhuh
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    Quote Originally Posted by pufferfis View Post
    I love my non psb nolan ....use a strong clipped.......stopped by tp also nothing abt helmet.....talk abt why i overtake him...hahahaha....lane clear...u behind truck so i overtake la....sometimes tp also goondu...

    oh I didn't know they don't bother with clips as well. I always avoid clips to avoid drawing attention to a non approved helmet

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    kaiq
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    Snell stated this: "Quick release buckles, if used, shall not be able to be released inadvertently."

    They scared quick-release buckle would open up in an accident, and different helmet has different quick-release quality standards - who knows if a manufacturer is using a good quick-release or not. That's why I rather get a d-ring, proven system.

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    mechwira
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaiq View Post
    Snell stated this: "Quick release buckles, if used, shall not be able to be released inadvertently."

    They scared quick-release buckle would open up in an accident, and different helmet has different quick-release quality standards - who knows if a manufacturer is using a good quick-release or not. That's why I rather get a d-ring, proven system.
    i will agree that as a concept, the d-ring is the safest and strongest and most secure etc etc.

    but there are also things to consider:

    as i understand it, the strap mechanism is part of the test in international standards testing. whereas i think for PSB, as long as not d-ring, auto not approved without test. so example if a helmet with alternative fastener is certified to snell, that means snell has determined the fastener will not "release inadvertently".

    and, while as a concept the d-ring is "best", the actual performance still depends on the quality of manufacturing. if the materials and stitching etc not good, material failure might make it worse than an alternative fastener from a good manufacturer.

    as a rule, where i have an option i will take d-ring; at the same time i will not mind an alternative system if the helmet model certified to ECE or SNELL.

    It's true: it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. Admittedly, though... It is MOST fun to ride a fast bike fast!

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    xavw
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    Anyone have experience as to whether this affects insurance claim? e.g. in situation of accident

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    reize
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    Quote Originally Posted by xavw View Post
    Anyone have experience as to whether this affects insurance claim? e.g. in situation of accident
    If the insurance being claimed is yours, people might ask, but you don't have to answer it, and it's hard to prove unless you died. If you're claiming against someone else, the person who will be questioned is the other guy. Non-automotive insurance (like health insurance) usually don't care about helmet specifics, only how and why it happened and the severity of your injury.

    Moral of the story is, ride safe, don't get into accidents, and just wear a good quality proper helmet. Your life is not worth fighting over insurance money.
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    Crazybiker
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    Ppl can sell non PSB helmet, but nobody force you to buy and use.

    I use non approve helmet when I first ride on the roads after getting license. Nobody is gonna check unless they are super by the book.

    Motogp helmet not PSB approved, but the riders still use. I think the PSB testing method is outdated? Especially the strap mechanism

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    Not true. The section of the Road Traffic Act on this does not distinguish between retailers or private sellers. It says:

    For the purposes of section 74(1) and (2) of the Act, the protective helmet —
    (a) to be worn on the head of every person who drives or is carried on a motor cycle; or
    (b) to be sold or offered for sale or had in possession for sale, shall be of the following type approved by the Minister for Home Affairs:
    (i) it shall conform to the requirements of the Singapore Standard Specification S.S. 9:1992 (UDC 614.891: 629.047: 687.4: 629.113) as published by the Singapore Productivity and Standards Board; and
    (ii) it shall bear the PSB CERTIFICATION MARK, or the PSB BATCH INSPECTED label, of the Singapore Productivity and Standards Board unless the mark or the label is worn out through wear and tear.


    Note point (b). It basically means as long as you are going sell it, you have to sell only PSB helmets. Saying "For Export" or "I'm not a commercial entity" does not help if they want to enforce the law fully.


    Quote Originally Posted by mechwira View Post
    the law only applies to commercial retailers, those are the ones who cannot sell non-psb helmets. all private sales between private individuals are covered differently, and the law does not apply. this includes the lemon law. not applicable to private sales and transactions.

     

     
  22. #22
    Leslie
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    Quote Originally Posted by kzone View Post
    I was stopped for something, but they didn't check my helmet. Just ask for my license then ask y I did that offence...

    btw, since PSB requires batch testing, y don't they have records of the tested batch? And I don't understand y they paste the stickers outside rather than inside the helmet.
    I was stopped on several occasions too, but they didn't even bother to check the helmet, it could be not in their checklist item unless you are really wearing a flashy helmet that can't be ignored by TP.

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    Kixer88
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    Check out my helmet selections https://goo.gl/zjrN18

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