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Thread: Engine etiquette

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    BoBOKik
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    here's an article which i posted, b4 the database was corrupted. was too lazy to retyped it again... but since its a really good article n it might benefit ppl here... so wat the heck

    Engine etiquette
    The way you treat your engine, from cold start to switching off hot and ticking, has a huge effect on its life and performance

    Running in
    FORGET ALL THAT
    nonsense about sticking to rev limits for a certain number of miles, just ride normally, allowing the engine to rev freely (but not redlining) and never let it labour. Go up and down the gearbox and up and down the revs. Dont't sit on a motorway for hours hoping to speed up the process - it doesn't work.
    Engine tuner Dave Setphenson, who's run in hundreds of bikes, has two tips:
    "Find a long downhill stretch, get in top at about 50mph (80kph) and wait till the bike's pulling ahead of the engine, then whack the throttle open. When it starts to pull, shut it again. That causes a vacuum in the crankcase, pushes the piston rings against the cylinder walls and helps them bed in."
    The second tip is not to use synthetic oil for running in. "It won't just slow the running in process, it ruins it - do 20 miles (32km) for new on synthetic and the engine'll need stripping." the bores and bearing surfaces end up polished and unable to hold a film of oil. the same thing happens when you run engines in too carefully

    Cold starting
    Most engine wear occurs in the few seconds after starting from cold. The oil is thicker can can't circulate, and while the bike was parked all the oil drained away from the top end of the engine. You can help circulation by cranking the starter for a few seconds wifh the kill switch off.
    Modern sportsbikes are enve more at rick, as Dave explains: "Because they've only got sidestands, the oil drain away more from the right side of the engine. It's common to find big-end and main bearings porgressively worn across from number one, with number four scrap."
    When you start the bike, don't let it race on choke, ride off as soon as it'll run evenly, be gentle with the throttle and give the oil a chance to warm up and circulate.

    Ride it, don't tickle it
    Engines are built with a particular duty cycle in mind. Lawnmowers are designed to run at one speed all day, but bike engines aren't. They're designed to rev (crusiers excepted). So you won't do your GSX-R any favours if you never take it above 6000rpm. Dave: "Engines last better if you use them fairly hard, and especially if you rev them throught the gears (not redlining, just letting them spin) instead of short shifting. It keep them clean and healthy. There's more damage done by people who sit at 60 all day than by lads doing track days." Watch out on down changes, though, change too early and you could over-rev the engine, bending valves in the process.

    Don't get too good at wheelies
    Bikes are designed with two whees, so if you choose to u se just one, you're outside the engine's design parameters. On most bikes, a lengthy wheelie will drain all the oil to the back of the crankcase, and away from the oil pick-up pipe, which can strave the bearings. Early Nineties Yamaha EXUPs and YZFs are particularly prone to this. On some bikes (notably Ducatis) you might even end up with most of the oil spat back out through the crankcase breather and into the airbox. So the better you get at them, the more damage you're likely to be doing to your engine.

    One last thing
    Everyone does it, and no-one knows why: that last blip of the throttle before you turn the engine off. If you have a Scott Squirrel two-stroke it might help clear the plugs, but for the rest of us it has the unhappy consequence of dumping a large shot neat fuel down the bores, washing the oil away. That means extra wear when your start up or corrosion if you leave it standing for too long. So don't do it.

    Extracts from Bike April 2002

    finally me no expert in these stuff.. me jus cut n pasted for a magazine...

  2. #2
    lychee
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    keke, the last point.....evryone been doing it, perhaps its time to change that?
    Killing for peace is like farking for chastity

     

     
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    BOBO glad that u post it again ... been looking for it ...
    abt the last part i believe it a habit cos i never do it
    i never do it becos i always forget haha

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    Desmond
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    this is ah dez........

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    Very cool ... was about to buy a new scooter ....

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    so the last part is reccomended for 2 stroke bikes lah?

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    Hi,

    Some question about the part on running in. After reading a few article on hard break-in, i have more or less accepted the part about allowing the engine to rev freely and using mineral oil during this period. As i have rev my S4 to about 10k a few time liao and is running on mineral oil.

    But i am keen to know what type of oil is put inside the engine by the manufacturer ? Because i only change to mineral oil at 500km. If it is synthetics, wouldn't it defeat the purpose of breaking-in. Guess the manufacturer wont be so generous rit?

    Just want some opinion.
    Thanks!

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    the manufacture wun out any oil in your bike when it first come ...
    it the motor shop that put oil in ... so u think motor diam will put wat type of oil

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    Okay, so thats the case. Guess the motor diam wont put more then $10 worth of oil inside rit?

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    Okay, so thats the case. Guess the motor diam wont put more then $10 worth of oil inside rit?
    Of coz maybe its sum animal fats dat they pour into ur bike...
    ********************************************************************************


    __________________________________________________________________________________________

    www.pizzahut.com.sg

  11. #11
    BoBOKik
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    in the interest of ppl askin abt running in.. and it will be a waste for tis article to jus dead off n get forgotten... so i decided to make it into a sticky thread..

     

     
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    here's an article which i posted, b4 the database was corrupted. was too lazy to retyped it again... but since its a really good article n it might benefit ppl here... so wat the heck

    Engine etiquette
    The way you treat your engine, from cold start to switching off hot and ticking, has a huge effect on its life and performance


    The second tip is not to use synthetic oil for running in. "It won't just slow the running in process, it ruins it - do 20 miles (32km) for new on synthetic and the engine'll need stripping." the bores and bearing surfaces end up polished and unable to hold a film of oil. the same thing happens when you run engines in too carefully



    Extracts from Bike April 2002

    finally me no expert in these stuff.. me jus cut n pasted for a magazine...

    I could see that the article is talking about 4-stroke bikes. But does syn 2T affect a new engine?

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    ya. as RUN-IN 2-stroke bikes. what grade shld be choose for 2T n gearoil/engineoil?

    anyone knows? or recommand?

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    [quote="BoBOKik"]

    Engine etiquette
    The way you treat your engine, from cold start to switching off hot and ticking, has a huge effect on its life and performance

    Running in
    FORGET ALL THAT
    nonsense about sticking to rev limits for a certain number of miles, just ride normally, allowing the engine to rev freely (but not redlining) and never let it labour. Go up and down the gearbox and up and down the revs. Dont't sit on a motorway for hours hoping to speed up the process - it doesn't work.
    Engine tuner Dave Setphenson, who's run in hundreds of bikes, has two tips:
    "Find a long downhill stretch, get in top at about 50mph (80kph) and wait till the bike's pulling ahead of the engine, then whack the throttle open. When it starts to pull, shut it again. That causes a vacuum in the crankcase, pushes the piston rings against the cylinder walls and helps them bed in."

    Extracts from Bike April 2002
    quote]
    any1 can explain this step??

    "Find a long downhill stretch, get in top at about 50mph (80kph) and wait till the bike's pulling ahead of the engine, then whack the throttle open. When it starts to pull, shut it again."

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    Great Article!!

    just could i ask this ..dont quite understand this

    1) Running in
    "wait till the bike's pulling ahead of the engine"

    - what does that mean?


    2) Cold starting
    "You can help circulation by cranking the starter for a few seconds wifh the kill switch off."

    - this is you have a kick starter.. what about those with electric.start.. we cant do this then huh?

    thanks any replies appreciated

  16. #16
    BoBOKik
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    Great Article!!

    just could i ask this ..dont quite understand this

    1) Running in
    "wait till the bike's pulling ahead of the engine"

    - what does that mean?


    2) Cold starting
    "You can help circulation by cranking the starter for a few seconds wifh the kill switch off."

    - this is you have a kick starter.. what about those with electric.start.. we cant do this then huh?

    thanks any replies appreciated
    hmm dnt quite know how to explain the first part.. but i can try, cos im nt very technical incline.. i jus leech tis off a magazine... so if anybody thinks other wise, feel free to debate.. cos im oso learning...

    i guess.. wat its tryin to tell u is.. with a reasonable long down slope.. u can let the gravity of the slope to pull yr bike down.. so wif u holding yr throttle position at a steady 80Kph initially wen goin dwn slp.. the gravity of the slp will eventually pull yr bike to a speed way beyond 80kph.. dats provide u r still holdin yr throttle in the same position...

    as for the 2nd part.. well wif the kill switch off..yr starter motor will still run, n hence make yr engine spin.. but nt starting it.. dat is wat its tryin to tell u.. to get the oil circulate in yr engine first b4 really starting it...

    research has shd dat the most engine wear comes from the initial start of the engine wen its cold

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    with a reasonable long down slope.. u can let the gravity of the slope to pull yr bike down..


    as for the 2nd part.. well wif the kill switch off..yr starter motor will still run, n hence make yr engine spin.. but nt starting it..
    hey thanks for the reply.. very helpful
    just wondering.. hmm where can we find a long downhill slope.. (mount faber?)

    and 2nd pt.. means i press the cut off switch.. and press the electric starter button?

    thanks again

  18. #18
    BoBOKik
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    hey thanks for the reply.. very helpful
    just wondering.. hmm where can we find a long downhill slope.. (mount faber?)

    and 2nd pt.. means i press the cut off switch.. and press the electric starter button?

    thanks again
    ya i oso agreed where to find such a place.. if u noe or found such a place let me noe oso..

    dont think Mount faber is good cos its nt straight.. u nid to maintain speed...

    yup.. u jus press the engine start button..

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    ya i oso agreed where to find such a place.. if u noe or found such a place let me noe oso..

    dont think Mount faber is good cos its nt straight.. u nid to maintain speed...

    yup.. u jus press the engine start button..
    i have one good place in mind that fits the description.

    Hendon Road... at Changi village area. The road up to Old changi hospital for ghost tours. Its not longer the commando camp so its legal to ride up there. has about 400m of downhill with just a very slight right bend in the around the 200m mark. steep enough to let commandos curse and swear when marching up in full gear.
    Sitting on my hands... Must... Not... Rebutt...!! ARGH~!@

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    Yo ricky!

  21. #21
    BoBOKik
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    i have one good place in mind that fits the description.

    Hendon Road... at Changi village area. The road up to Old changi hospital for ghost tours. Its not longer the commando camp so its legal to ride up there. has about 400m of downhill with just a very slight right bend in the around the 200m mark. steep enough to let commandos curse and swear when marching up in full gear.
    tks for the info

     

     
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    tks for the info
    when u wanna go lemme know ok? show u around the place if u dunno which road i'm talking about. hope to meet some ppl in this forum!

    Sitting on my hands... Must... Not... Rebutt...!! ARGH~!@

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    when u wanna go lemme know ok? show u around the place if u dunno which road i'm talking about. hope to meet some ppl in this forum!

    well u can take a look at Trip Thrills or Beyond the screen for outing..

    tks of the offer.. ya i think i noe which road u tokin abt...

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    as for the 2nd part.. well wif the kill switch off..yr starter motor will still run, n hence make yr engine spin.. but nt starting it.. dat is wat its tryin to tell u.. to get the oil circulate in yr engine first b4 really starting it...

    research has shd dat the most engine wear comes from the initial start of the engine wen its cold
    Bro, my engine wouldn't do anything with my kill switch on. Nothing happens when I press the start button. Like that means I cannot do as recommended is it? Am riding a Shadow.

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  26. #26
    BoBOKik
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    hey tis article is even easier to understand den wat my article was tryin to say.. kudos to buja

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    hey tis article is even easier to understand den wat my article was tryin to say.. kudos to buja
    no offense dude but i have a little doubt about the credibility of the authors of these articles.

    issit possible to find some form of identification or at least some hearsay truth from first hand experience in running in engines in this "breakthrough" way?

    even if it was the truth... i'd put my money on the tried and true "easy break in" bcos thats how everybody does it, its recommended by the manufacturer. but most imptly... bcos we fear wat might happen if we played it rough on our new bikes. Wat if it caused a seizure? who are you going to hold responsible?

    Nobody will be responsible for your imprudence except yourself.

    if some form of scholarly study or engineering research by academics on this subject officially showed signs of advantages in these new break in methods, then it would ease a lot of queeziness on my part. till then... i'm not risking my brand new engine and a few hundred hardearned bucks.

    speaking of scholarlies... The manufacturers of these bikes hail from Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki and the likes. To be able to be part of the technial research team of engineers in these awesome companies require smoe Extreme engineering education and PhD's and MB.Sc's. These are the experts of the world in engine performances, NOT THE PRIVATE COMPANIES. If the manufacturer recommended something, there must have been a reason for it, if not they wouldn bother wasting their precious time making useless recommendations only to be ridiculed abt.

    In the MotoMan webbie, the webmaster criticised the manufacturers recommendations... With what credibility does he make such austentious comments?? Is he saying he knows better than the manufacturers? Then why isn he working with Honda proposing his concept in all new bike recommendations?
    Sitting on my hands... Must... Not... Rebutt...!! ARGH~!@

  28. #28
    BoBOKik
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    well.. its all up to u to believe anot.. it will be a nvr ending argument, everybody have their own view... like how science n religon dont alway agreed wif each other...

    so if u have yr doubts jus treat tis article as some interesting n entertainin readin material, dat oppose normal logics....

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    well.. its all up to u to believe anot.. it will be a nvr ending argument, everybody have their own view... like how science n religon dont alway agreed wif each other...

    so if u have yr doubts jus treat tis article as some interesting n entertainin readin material, dat oppose normal logics....
    agreed.
    Sitting on my hands... Must... Not... Rebutt...!! ARGH~!@

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    well.. its all up to u to believe anot.. it will be a nvr ending argument, everybody have their own view... like how science n religon dont alway agreed wif each other...

    so if u have yr doubts jus treat tis article as some interesting n entertainin readin material, dat oppose normal logics....
    Science and religion do agree with each other! In recent years, science has made some serious breakthroughs to agree with the Bible. If interested to find out more, read up on Gerald Schroeder's 'The Science of God'.

    Cheers mate!

  31. #31
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    Science and religion do agree with each other! In recent years, science has made some serious breakthroughs to agree with the Bible. If interested to find out more, read up on Gerald Schroeder's 'The Science of God'.

    Cheers mate!
    haha tks for the info but hor.. we will be goin , if we cont to discuss here..

     

     
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    Science and religion do agree with each other! In recent years, science has made some serious breakthroughs to agree with the Bible. If interested to find out more, read up on Gerald Schroeder's 'The Science of God'.

    Cheers mate!
    my goodness please dun start on that topic...

    World War 3 might break out.
    Sitting on my hands... Must... Not... Rebutt...!! ARGH~!@

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    my goodness please dun start on that topic...

    World War 3 might break out.
    No, it wouldn't cause WW3 to break out. Don't be silly.

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    With reference to the controversial articles brought out by BoBokik and Buja and the reply by feng125, may I suggest that everybody is right in a certain way. Cos....perhaps.....when one gets a new car or bike, the vehicle would have a done a certain mileage ...50 to 100 km? So where did this mileage come from? "That is a good question".
    This could have been the scenario: A new bike is born. The Jap engineers have to test it to ensure that it runs smoothly. Hence they would rev the engine hard! This in turn, break in the engine for the 1st 20 miles or so. Having bedded in the piston ring 80%, they then discard the engine oil. So, when we get the new bike there is now no need to rev the engine anymore. Normal riding conditions will run in the final 20%. ....anyway Bobo and Buja have done a great job

  35. #35
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    Does this run-in method apply on 2-stroke engines?

    For example, if I just did a top end overhaul on my RXZ, can I use this method?
    RXZ NSR150SP SV650 CBR400RR GSXR1000 FZ6S VFR800 CBR1000RR R1200GS
    Galant ES 2.4A Civic Si 2.0A

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    Please DO NOT apply the Mototune USA break in method to 2 strokes.

    The truth sometimes hurt. It's not easy to accept running a brand new bike progressively hard as the 'best' way of breaking in a new bike. Please allow for the sharing of my experiences utilizing motoman's break in method...

    I recently had the chance to break in my brand new K3 via the mototune method. I utilized motoman's Dyno method on the street, sticking solely with 2nd gear for the entire duration of his method after which I turned off the bike and allowed it to cool down to ambient temperature.

    I then followed up in addition to his break in method by accelerating and decelerating the bike hard (1/2 to 3/4 throttle) in the first 3 gears, never exceeding 10k rpm for the first 500km and 12k rpm for 1000km. I make it a point to cool down completely to ambient temperature and stick to 10-15 minutes of hard running everytime.

    My K3 is currently clocked at 1189km on the odometer. I had the chance to break in a friend's brand new K3 yesterday, also with the mototune method. What really surprised me was the fact that my bike actually felt more powerful. It was less 'tight' resulting in the the throttle reving more freely. My engine also seemed more powerful comparatively at various RPMs and gears.

    Granted, comparison is unfair without the aid of a Dyno machine or some other BHP measuring equipment. But I am disclaiming that as this is purely just a relation of my experiences. Personally, it has been very fruitful. No only does my bike seem to run faster now, it also revs much more freely. And all that while it's still on MINERAL based oil!


    Please WARM UP totally everytime before running the bike hard. Change oil and filter before the first 32km and as much as possible there after. I've changed my oil and filter 5 times already throughout my entire break in and EVERY oil change had metal flakes floating around in the oil and small particles depositing at the bottom of the oil drain pan... Stick only to MINERAL based oil for the first 2400km as recommanded by motoman. Good luck!

    For more information regarding motoman's break in method, visit
    http://mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

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    Please DO NOT apply the Mototune USA break in method to 2 strokes.

    The truth sometimes hurt. It's not easy to accept running a brand new bike progressively hard as the 'best' way of breaking in a new bike. Please allow for the sharing of my experiences utilizing motoman's break in method...

    I recently had the chance to break in my brand new K3 via the mototune method. I utilized motoman's Dyno method on the street, sticking solely with 2nd gear for the entire duration of his method after which I turned off the bike and allowed it to cool down to ambient temperature.

    I then followed up in addition to his break in method by accelerating and decelerating the bike hard (1/2 to 3/4 throttle) in the first 3 gears, never exceeding 10k rpm for the first 500km and 12k rpm for 1000km. I make it a point to cool down completely to ambient temperature and stick to 10-15 minutes of hard running everytime.

    My K3 is currently clocked at 1189km on the odometer. I had the chance to break in a friend's brand new K3 yesterday, also with the mototune method. What really surprised me was the fact that my bike actually felt more powerful. It was less 'tight' resulting in the the throttle reving more freely. My engine also seemed more powerful comparatively at various RPMs and gears.

    Granted, comparison is unfair without the aid of a Dyno machine or some other BHP measuring equipment. But I am disclaiming that as this is purely just a relation of my experiences. Personally, it has been very fruitful. No only does my bike seem to run faster now, it also revs much more freely. And all that while it's still on MINERAL based oil!


    Please WARM UP totally everytime before running the bike hard. Change oil and filter before the first 32km and as much as possible there after. I've changed my oil and filter 5 times already throughout my entire break in and EVERY oil change had metal flakes floating around in the oil and small particles depositing at the bottom of the oil drain pan... Stick only to MINERAL based oil for the first 2400km as recommanded by motoman. Good luck!

    For more information regarding motoman's break in method, visit
    http://mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
    So how to we run-in a 2 Stroke bike properly ??

  38. #38
    S4Sixty
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    have u rebuild your engine with a fresh rings recently?
    Yeah new pistons and rings.
    So do you have a solution then ??

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    even if u think the hard breaking applies, its too late coz the 1st 30 km is the most crucial part of the hard breakin in method.
    Can you clearly describe the entire procedure instead of bluntly saying it's too late ??
    I'm sure other 2 stroke riders here will benefit from your knowledge of bikes whether or not it's too late.

    First 30km ?? Are you going to say to change the oil after that ??
    Why ? Does the engine oil coat the piston like it does on a 4 stroker ??

    Please give us riders proper reasoning behind the whole logic. Don't leave us in the dark.

    Cheers !

  40. #40
    Shaun-
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    the website mention say use petroluem for breaking in? Does it refers to minerals oil? Where to get it?

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    BoBOKik
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    the website mention say use petroluem for breaking in?
    err in which part of the website did he mentioned aabt using petroluem for breaking in???

    Does it refers to minerals oil? Where to get it?
    err minerals oil = non-synthetic engin oil..

     

     
  42. #42
    FireSpitter
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    Errrrr.... I thought using petroleum for running in, travelling, starting the bike etc..etc... is an absolute must?

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    hmm......petrol also good for washing engine parts and dirty hands
    The miracle isn\'t that you finished....the miracle is that you
    had the courage to <span style=\'font-size:27pt;line-height:100%\'>START

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    Hey guys, sorrie for being a little off topic. Can I inquire what delibrate back-fire actually does to your piston?

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    hahahahahahhaha...nothing to do create all those unwanted noise for wat?? scare ppl dunno ur bike can backfire???
    or celebrate singapore birthday with ur own style of fireworks effects??

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    Haha, always kanna from others when riding smaller CC bikes, so try try when I got a bigger bike. Engine feels a little....stiff after a while. Never knew why but that puts me off doing it too often. Good for giving some DRIVERS a wake up call... especially those with their windows wind down and techno loud loud, weaving in and out of traffic at 100km/h as if that proves their skills very good.

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    Haha, always kanna from others when riding smaller CC bikes, so try try when I got a bigger bike. Engine feels a little....stiff after a while. Never knew why but that puts me off doing it too often. Good for giving some DRIVERS a wake up call... especially those with their windows wind down and techno loud loud, weaving in and out of traffic at 100km/h as if that proves their skills very good.
    as if bikers dun do that.....

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    as if bikers dun do that.....
    It is a lot more intimidating for a car to do that ya know.

    A vehicle the size of a car doing what a bike normally does. HMMMMM.

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    It is a lot more intimidating for a car to do that ya know.

    A vehicle the size of a car doing what a bike normally does. HMMMMM.
    It's still a road hazard no matter what.
    Be it bike or car or bus or lorry or van or trailer.

    Cheers !

  50. #50
    Sex4
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    To any1 out there, I am currently riding Super4 and notice that I need to compress my start key the 2nd time before my bike can really start. It alway die off the 1st time I press the start button. Does any1 out there know the reason behind this & how can I prevent this????????/

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