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Thread: Riding Skills Series: Slippery When Wet

  1. #101
    ctng
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    Deauville.

    You may be right in some of your points but I didn't explain. I don't ride bike like a racer since many yrs ago. Of course cannot hit 140km/h and down 2/3 gear to bring down to 50km/h within 2-3 secs. I am talking about 100 to 80 to 50 slowly in normal rides. Always ride in the correct gear matching road speed.

    Yes. I do tap front brake switch sometimes. I do use all 3 methods. Down gear to slow down. Another gear, another gear and finally use brake if come to complete stop.
    Better And Better

  2. #102
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    Originally posted by ctng@April 11, 2007 04:48 am
    Deauville.

    You may be right in some of your points but I didn't explain. I don't ride bike like a racer since many yrs ago. Of course cannot hit 140km/h and down 2/3 gear to bring down to 50km/h within 2-3 secs. I am talking about 100 to 80 to 50 slowly in normal rides. Always ride in the correct gear matching road speed.

    Yes. I do tap front brake switch sometimes. I do use all 3 methods. Down gear to slow down. Another gear, another gear and finally use brake if come to complete stop.
    P-plate should be an attitude to safety and riding. There's always more to learn.


     

     
  3. #103
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    someone haven say whats IRC le.. ai lee see meh ..
    passed class 2B 31-08-06 (ex phantom TA200)
    passed class 2A 06-11-07 (riding cb400 S1)
    passes class 3 17-04-07 (some times)

  4. #104
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    on countless wet occasions, i had experienced rear tire drift feeling when exit a cornering. Released throttle, just it slow down on its own by engine braking. Put gas in it, will jeopardize ur safety.

    "But it ain't about how hard ya hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. How much you can take and keep moving forward. Now if you know what you're worth then go out and get what you're worth."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ahboy_ahboy View Post
    someone haven say whats IRC le.. ai lee see meh ..
    IRC is a tyre brand name. correct me if i'm wrong.

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    when you all down gear do you apply light brake then down gear? if not just clutch in, down gear then release clutch wouldnt the bike sort of suddenly become slow meh?

  7. #107
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    learning to skid is a skill by itself. Knowing your bike and getting over the phobia is the key thing. Just some sharing of my experience.

    Having a Rebel 125 as a P-plater three years ago. Had to attend the Defensive Course due to riding into camp. Cursed the course cos must pay money. But i swear upon the course when i almost crashed into a van once. Wet road after rain, van 8 metres in front, brake cos amber light, I going 60km/h... how to stop??? Jam the rear drum brake, skid to the right, counter steer, bike moves to the left at this point, release brake, straighten bike, brake again. Voila..... i am at the left side of the van.

    Having SuperFour Version S later as a 2A. Using the bike, and wet road, learn skidding with the bike. Found out that you really have to remain calm in situation like this. And practise practise and practise. Then i even took my S4 offroad into the forest of Sungei Gudung, off Lim Chu Kang. Damn wet soft mud, and i still managed to go through ( tank training area ). My friends on the 5-ton told me that my tail was spinning side to side.

    it is all in the control of the rider. Know your brakes well and you will aviod over-braking. Those wat 25/75, 75/25, 50/50, 100/0 only generally guide you along. Try to test your brakes on a safe stretch of road. Know them and they will save you. These rules definately cannot be used on my bike. WHY?? 2 x 4 port ( Total 8 port ) Brembo brakes for a 150 kg bike of 400cc is too much. Even Ducati uses only one side of Brembo for their Monster 400. Superfour uses 2... woah... Power...

    Just to sum up, be friends with your brake cailiper and know them inside-out and you will stay alive on wet n slippery road.. and also... go slow.
    Please contact me @ 9628 7970 for direct fast deal.

  8. #108
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    this is a good thread on teaching us riders, the safety of riding in wet/slippery conditions =)
    It's not how fast you ride, but how well you ride.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackson_ngo View Post
    IRC is a tyre brand name. correct me if i'm wrong.
    http://www.irc-tire.com/mce/index.html

    here is the site for it. It is the name of the company that produces it. One word to discribe it. SUX.

  10. #110
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    ride slowly is the best !
    scarly Buang and tat its..
    lols..im replying rubbish..
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  11. #111
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    If u wan to get out of the rain.. ride faster then the rain so it wont kenna u haha but we all know its impossible.. so ride slowly.. corner slowly.. rain is nv slower =)

    Quote Originally Posted by Skull_Angel View Post
    ride slowly is the best !
    scarly Buang and tat its..
    lols..im replying rubbish..


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  12. #112
    ChaoPussy
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    ride slow is good ...learn about brakes also important

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    yeah... previously early in the morning i skidded in a drizzling day. luckily i was sleepy.. didnt felt nervous and turned the handle back.. after i alight i realised how dangerous plight i was in..

    Quote Originally Posted by Pussy1968 View Post
    ride slow is good ...learn about brakes also important


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  14. #114
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    Whoa, I guess it boils down to practice and practice, but on Singapore roads can practice meh?

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    Definately not on the road.. can be charged for dangerous/reckless driving..

    Quote Originally Posted by Topnut View Post
    Whoa, I guess it boils down to practice and practice, but on Singapore roads can practice meh?

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    i think come to biking and riding a road bicycle is the same. Things we look out from during raining days. example : metal drains eg.

    not locking the brake too hard to prevent fish tail.
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    I think the points raised about engine braking are really good and should be practised, especially during wet days. But, the main point should be about avoiding jam braking in all situations. Being situationally aware and anticipating the actions of other road users, coupled with a slower speed, will ensure that instances of emergency braking will be kept to a bare minimum, in turn keeping us safe.

    Think I'll try to enrol myself into the HOV course immediately upon getting my 2B! Gotta keep myself safe so as to enjoy a long and fulfilling life riding motorcycles!!
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  18. #118
    gissoubri
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    I am a ****.
    Last edited by DM; 21-09-2009 at 01:37 PM.

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    Default Tyres and brakes

    CHECK your Tyres and Brakes regularly ..........

    Good riding techniques alone cannot function when poor tyres and faulty leaking brakes fail u at yr most crucial moments .....
    it dreads to c some ppl riding damm nice bikes , but stinge on tyres.....
    the tyres almost botak liao.......... , yeah maybe they like drifting lol ...

    Having good and deep threaded grooved tyres will get rid of water much faster , and it certainly prevent aqua planning ....
    afew bucks more will save yr life !

    MOST IMPORTANTLY .... DONT RIDE TOO FAST .....
    SPEEDING is the main culprit for 90% of all road accidents !
    And MOTORCYCLISTS often are the ones that came out worst in an accident .

    Remember : SPEED THRILLS AND IT KILLS too ! be it rain or shine .

  20. #120
    NicholasLJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by gissoubri View Post
    I am a ****.
    haha... wat dat le??

  21. #121
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    Don't forget not to accelerate hard too.

    Especially coming out of a corner.

    Felt my rear wheel spinning when I accelerated out of a 90 degree corner inside a multi-storey carpark. Damn these floors are extra slippery. Good thing I got 2 feet down to stablise.
    Motorcyclist are the nicest people on the road, try not to kill us.

     

     
  22. #122
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    it scares me cornering on a scooter (nothing to hold between your legs) in the wet.

  23. #123
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    more bikes should come with abs.

  24. #124
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    I dun usually stop in e rain. i'd rather get wet coz once u've stopped U'll feel super reluctant to go back in the rain again if the rain dun show any sign of stopping at all.
    i've got too many experiences of skiddin in e rain that now i juz keep to the leftest lane and go at 40. I am usually careful not to road hog but rainy days are exceptions to that rule 40 kmh is not possible on the expressways, so I just have to pray n ride in the middle lane at a slow but acceptable speed.

  25. #125
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    Wink

    got my licence on 11th march, evening go looi's motor bought my 1st gf - Phantom TA200, 12th march gotten my bike, few days later raining, on PIE to CTE flyover, it juz finished rain and the car in front of me i keep a 5m distance @ 50km/hr and stay side of the car (teached by my experienced friend), he all of sudden jam brake then signal. my balls squuezed and my mind is blank, split second decision, i rear and front brake by feeling, dunnoe how much percentage but i only know its not enough cause rear start to skid. mind still blank so dunnoe wad to do and somehow by instinct i swerve front wheel to left and it glide + abit slide, hiam hiam siam tio and stopped at the back door of that bloody lady driver car.....

    and its an IRC tire. nabeh if i whack it, i cant imagine how deep of **** will i get for having an accident hitting peoples backside in less than a week...

    after some sould searching, it was these moments and close calls that made us remember whats most important. ride defensively and safely and consciously, ride like your going to get accident on every ride and dont follow lady drivers so closely cause its their fathers road.
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  26. #126
    astrawala
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    true enough. Good learning experience

  27. #127
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    Default 1 * Close Call,100 Lessons

    I just want to share my experience to all new riders my near death experience on CTE.

    I was riding along CTE at around 7.30 am in the morning rush hour. On the way,it started raining but I did not stop to put on a raincoat or anything.( Riding SP, no box to put raincoat) All I wanted to do was ride faster to get out of the rain.

    I didn't like getting soaked so I rode faster on the most right lane hoping to get to work sooner. I was riding at 80km/hr when suddenly, the taxi in front of me braked. I was only 3 car lengths away from the taxi and I jam braked. In a split second, I smashed onto the floor and skidded over 10 meters, at 80 km/hr.

    Though in pain and shock, I got up immediately and moved to the side. The car behind me was also traveling at the same speed, but LUCKILY it managed to stop in time. I could not have imagined what have happened if I had stayed on the floor and the driver ran over me because he was not alert. I managed to escape with only a few abrasions and a scratched fairing.

    I know that it is my fault for keeping so close to the vehicle in front in the wet weather, but I just want to share these lessons with all new riders.

    When it starts raining, you have to adopt a totally different riding style in terms of braking and speed. Your brakes are less effective and you skid easier. This can be so dangerous on expressways. Stick to the left or middle lane and stay away from vehicles as much as possible because they too have a more difficult time driving in the rain.

    Get familiar with your brakes. Brake too hard,(like for my case) your tires will lock and you you will skid and fall. Brake too little and you might just hit the vehicle front. Keep a good distribution between front and back brakes would be most ideal.

    When you fall, though you may be in pain. Always know that the danger comes after you fall - the vehicle traveling towards you from behind. So if you can, after you fall, first thing to do is to look behind. You never know if a vehicle is approaching you at high speeds. Only recover your bike when it is safe. You life is so much more important.

    And with that, I hope all riders can ride well and rife safe. Because dying isn't funny.

  28. #128
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    plus rmb to brake early as the discs are wet too and they cant bite as hard. Moderated pressure on the brakes, especially the rear is really important if not skidding is sure to follow

  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by piggy83sg View Post
    Sianz~ yesterday i skip my TA150 in the carpark.....
    it was raining, but not heavy pour. I wan to warm up e bike so I go rd n rd the carpark. then, when entering e S-course rd, i yaya when cornering. i didnt notice there got branches n i go over. wobble liao but lucky i hold my tank tight tight so can balance. Alas... so suay, run over a drain cover n i do a power sping of 180 degree... i skip some 3 or 4 metre distance wif spark coming from e left signal light n footpad, gear 2 somemore. i injured my right arm as i try 2 support myself, left leg tio pancake by e tank, but not as bad as my arm. den my butt so shiok. painful since my butt land 1st but no physical injury. except tat my pant went torn apart, showing my wallet. lucky my metal plate on my wallet save my ass yesterday. last, i still can laugh at myself when i lay on e ground. asking myself "eh>am i doing some sort of moive filming?"

    overall, no worry, juz replace my left signal light n put back e chain...


    haha ups la.. lol.. jackie chan
    overtake ? you will never overtake any last vehicle because u will never be the first no matter how .

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    it's hard to store with you a raincoat if you're driving a sports bike cos we normally do not install a box and the rain stings when it hits down on you. naturally you wanna go faster to get to a dry spot faster but i think it's wiser to go slow instead. avoid the right lane too and go at a safe speed to avoid trouble and pain.

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    I made this video a long time ago when I was fed up seeing drivers take corners at 30kph. Till today I use this as a reference to demonstrate foresight (you need to look much further ahead in the wet, and you need to be gentle with the controls), and that you should ride so smoothly it's like playing a driving game on the PS3 with all the driver aids on.

    Some people say there is 'nothing to see' in my videos. Yes, that's EXACTLY the point. You don't see me crash or cause road drama showing middle fingers at other motorists. I play GTA 3 for that.

    Smooth control is proven to allow the suspension to remain at its most compliant middle range giving maximum traction, even when over slippery surfaces.

    Note that the Phantom is reputed to be skid-prone but with good maintenence practices and smooth throttle control...


     

     
  32. #132
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    When engine braking before traffic lights, must you open the throttle when releasing the clutch after every downshift? Or does engine braking actually work if you just shift to a lower gear and then release the clutch to biting point without reopening the throttle at all?

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    must you open the throttle when releasing the clutch after every downshift?
    This is a racing technique known as "blipping the throttle" and is intended to match the RPM with the lower gear while decelerating, to maintain optimal handling/balance of the vehicle and also to improve throttle response when the driver gets back on the power (normal downshifting creates a "slack" of say, a thousand or two RPMs creating a slight delay before you can get back to maximum torque). It's both an engine management technique and a crucial skill to maintain slick laptimes.

    Cars with more advanced gearboxes can automatically blip the throttle when you downshift using the paddles.

    For purposes of street riding/driving, blipping the throttle isn't necessary nor beneficial although it can make your bike sound VERY cool! Impress your friends with your 1337 lacer sound but in traffic, nah, concentrate on keeping track where those aggro drivers are.

  34. #134
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    I'm asking about this because I want to minimise brake use in rainy weather. My bike can skid even when braking at very low speeds and I find using engine braking is safer.

    So, should I be opening the throttle after each downshift or leaving it closed? Which would lead to more effective engine braking?

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    No difference in effectiveness, smooth clutch and brake control (with more bias to front brake) should minimise skids. Failing which check the tyre pressure, some bikes are sensitive to overinflated tyres causing poor traction in the wet.

  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by littlereddevil View Post
    it's hard to store with you a raincoat if you're driving a sports bike cos we normally do not install a box and the rain stings when it hits down on you. naturally you wanna go faster to get to a dry spot faster but i think it's wiser to go slow instead. avoid the right lane too and go at a safe speed to avoid trouble and pain.
    juz for info & my own exp, i used to ride sports bikes & i ALWAYS carry a bag with my raincoat in it to where i go. i can oso keep my gloves in it when i'm not riding.
    juz pull over to the side to wear raincoat when it starts to rain. it wun takes u more than 5 mins. better be late than sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wormwood View Post
    I'm asking about this because I want to minimise brake use in rainy weather. My bike can skid even when braking at very low speeds and I find using engine braking is safer.

    So, should I be opening the throttle after each downshift or leaving it closed? Which would lead to more effective engine braking?
    in general, its better dat u close your throttle fully when comes to braking even u r shifting down your gears for engine brake.
    juz rmb to keep the steps simple & u wun be confuse when comes to actual riding. the more steps u have, the more confuse u'll be. get use to which ever style u r comfortable with and only try new things when u gain more experience to see/compare which is even more better.

    juz sharing my exp. safe riding guys ^_^
    History --> Cagiva Mito3, Yamaha RX100, Yamaha TZRR125, Yamaha RXK135, Honda 150SP, Honda CBR400RR, Honda Wave 125R, Honda CBR900RR, Yamaha R6 '05, Subaru Imprezza I 1.6M, Honda Silverwing SW-T400, Honda Super 4 Version S, Yamaha Spark 135 RX

    Present --> Yamaha Tmax 530 Iron Max, Perodua Viva 1.0L

  37. #137
    superstylefactor
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    good to check shelf life of tyres as well, they may be new but if it's 3 years old or more, the rubber would already have hardened and don't provide any traction at all. learnt the hard way when i lightly pulled on the front brakes at 60kph on a wet road and the front tyre skidded and my bike low-sided. did manage to slide to a stop at the stop line of the junction though =)

  38. #138
    tantanxixi
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  39. #139
    barktasobebark15
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    Well, I will be taking the motorcycle skills test within the week and i was wondering what should I expect.


    IT profiles

  40. #140
    foxin
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    Engine brake FTW!
    What the driving school always like to say: "good tire does not save you from accident, only good practice and" yada yada yada...
    BUT! I still believe a good tire will save some good shave. Heard of this "mor" something something brand, seems good.

  41. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxin View Post
    Engine brake FTW!
    What the driving school always like to say: "good tire does not save you from accident, only good practice and" yada yada yada...
    BUT! I still believe a good tire will save some good shave. Heard of this "mor" something something brand, seems good.
    I believe that engine braking, by connecting the full drivetrain to the rear wheel, increases the rotational inertia of the spinning wheel. So it's much harder to lock up the back wheel.

    It's very easy to skid any bike, not just Phantoms, by coasting (clutching in) and applying the rear brakes firmly.

    The other wet weather safety tip I will give is this

    TYRE PRESSURE.

    a lot of local mechanics love to -over- inflate tyres by as much as 70kpa giving very poor wet weather traction. In the dry, you can get away with it because Singapore roads are of a high quality and use high-friction asphalt composition. In the wet, all sorts of accidents start to appear thanks to over-inflation. It decreases the contact patch area of the tyre dramatically.

    For off-road or wet weather riding, I always release some air from the tyre before venturing out, just for that added grip in adverse conditions. In Singapore, it's really easy to just pump the air back in at the next petrol station.

    It's not just for bikes, it's for cars too.

    I saw an Accord Euro driver the other day pump over 460kpa of air into his otherwise normal looking tyres. Wth. High speed evasive maneuver in the rain how?

     

     
  42. #142
    iproapps
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    Nice tips again from this forum. Hope eveyone gains something out of it

  43. #143
    kenny0210
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    Thanks for the information. almost skip a couple of time when raining...=X

  44. #144
    velocity325
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenny0210 View Post
    Thanks for the information. almost skip a couple of time when raining...=X
    hahas, the feeling like you bike just slant a little and get back to line huh ? :O

  45. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoonHean View Post
    wonder whether u all came across this cruve road from BKE into KJE.. there're these saw-tooth drains across the road, 2 of them are on the straighter portion of the road, so no problem. but the last one is across quite a sharp curve, everytime i can sense my rear tire skid at bit going through it on raining days.. a bit of phobia liao....
    bad weather nowadays, so i opened this thread.
    didnt know this post was almost 8 years old but that thing is still there! i guess its to accommodate the expansion and contraction of the road.

    i was on my way back past this road few hours back, it was raining, was going at ~90-100kph, when i hit that thing my rear wheel slipped and hopped, it then caught traction after it landed.

    METZELER M5 potentially saved me. ups for metzeler in the wet. : )

  46. #146
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    just dont jam you front brakes if they are disc brakes. Apply rear brakes well enough to stabilize the bike

  47. #147
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    According to me you should always wear helmet when you ride. It helps you alot whenever you got accindent and it can protect you with that. Thanks for this info rmation. Keep it up.

  48. #148
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    1st time read this interesting thread. So just contribute a bit hopefully.
    With regards to drivers in wet weather, keep in mind a few things

    1. Yes, there's a lot of cuckoo drivers. But don't blame cuckoos, the rain will immediate identify a cuckoo driver.. ie, they drive at snail pace, forgot to on light, very hesitant to change lane etc.... usually cuckoo drivers are not bikers biggest risk in the wet
    2. When it gets wet, cars take corners very slowly only for 1 reason. ie We REALLY cannot see well from our sides, the windows are peppered with rain drops, some possibly fogged up. Remember, cars only have wipers at the front. So drivers take corner slowly coz they want to be careful.
    3. If rain really get heavy, we as riders, please KEEP IN MIND, drivers cannot see out of sides at all. When we split lane...... please tell yourself this.
    4. For old bikes with weak lights, you are as effective as being invisible in heavy rain - Best advice, stop under bridge and wait for rain to stop.
    5. Also, keep in mind, bikes have 2 tires, weight ~200kg, that's only 100kg on each tire. Cars although have 4 tires, weights at least 1.2ton, that's easily 400kg on each tire. Even accounting for flatter tire profile, cars generally exert greater pressure on their tires, hence this means they have much greater stopping power in the wet. Not to forget, bikes dive a lot under braking, so most stopping power is on the front tire only
    6. Add to that, all modern cars have ABS and balanced braking with a rigid chasis to transfer braking to the back tires as well. No bikes can every hope to outbrake a car under any circumstances. (Although I kind of hear BMW bikes with their tele-lever achieve same stopping distance)

    As for riders
    1. Yes, when it starts to rain, we tend to try chiong for it, taking unnecessary risk. Learnt to cub this. Stop by the side for rain clothes if you have to.
    2. If you have to brake hard, apply gentle brake and slowly increase the pressure, it is not advisable to skid.... rather err on side of caution. (of coz sometimes we have no choice)

    Conclusion
    Best not to ride in rain. If you must

  49. #149
    Idono
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    Forgot to mention something. You see the Civic Euro over inflating, only 2 possible reason.

    1. Driver is cuckoo / newbie and see pressure wrongly / dunno right pressure
    2. Driver is going racing

  50. #150
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    Remembering a few pointers can make riding in the rain easier and safer than you think. And besides, who wants to garage their motorcycle for five months out of the year?



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