SBF SYM Cafe 2009 / 2010

[FJRider]

May the water dragon brings Safety On The Road, Good Health, Happiness and Abundance Wealth to all of us ... Gong Xi Fa Cai 2012.

[habib2000]

Doesn't the V belt disintergrate when snapped like the T Max, Silverwing and Piaggio scooters !! If the Sym doesn't, then there is some serious problem !!!! ANyway, shall diligently changed at 12k as recommended by the manufacterer.

 

 

Bro get the mechanic to check 1st just incase already change (Maybe Previous Owner also follow Manual change at 12 K) ......

 

Usually change belt , they will check all ....just like MAJOR servici ng ... for GTS200 will be around $160

[m0bIlEnErD]

Sym scoots belting must change under 12k.

Also depends on how you ride. Never throttle and pull rear brake at same time. This will definitely wear the belt and pulleys faster. Personally seen a brand new Excel with 8000kms only with the belt and pulleys all rotten inside cos the rider always pulls the rear brake lever and throttle.

 

Simple know how can preserve your belts. Most important is always do a slow move off, never whack your throtte off the stop line. Keep rpm low and gradually pick up speed.

[deepblur]

My Taiwanese friend told me in Taiwan, their usually change the belt around 15K, the belt can last (or actually certified to last up to 16k) but only when use it with care (ie, slow move off, no sudden brake, no excessive speeding, etc). The 12K recommendation is with good margin to prevent breakdown.

 

One way is to visual check the condition of the belt, as long as the top portion is of breaking or curved and the bottom portion no crack, the belt is good.

 

Unlike the Italian, which using double teeth belt, SYM belt is more stronger yet cheaper

 

But here again, if ~$~ is no problem, it is always good to replace the belt at 12K.

[Dino Bravo]

Hi Dino, I'm using a 2004 Sym Joyride 200, all more the same problems u had I also had, changing coolant, cap, coolant tube, sensor etc etc, but 1 thing amiss and I discovered the head block gasket is blown, and there was a tiny pin hole at the steel liner/ alu block interface. The escaped exhaust heat and boil the coolant and oil with it, cause overheating and temp goes 4 bars. The oil goes to the coolant system and change to tea color. So the solution I had to do top overhaul and change the block, piston, rings and cleaned valves.

Wow presto, the bike back to normal and always back to 1 bar and at most 2 bars, before any 3 bar appears.. the fan kick in and within mins drop to 1 bar. cheers

 

Hi Bro, thanks for sharing.

Would like to ask how much was the damage for doing up the head gasket?

And also did your exhause pipe blow white smoke?

[Dino Bravo]

Hi Dino, I'm using a 2004 Sym Joyride 200, all more the same problems u had I also had, changing coolant, cap, coolant tube, sensor etc etc, but 1 thing amiss and I discovered the head block gasket is blown, and there was a tiny pin hole at the steel liner/ alu block interface. The escaped exhaust heat and boil the coolant and oil with it, cause overheating and temp goes 4 bars. The oil goes to the coolant system and change to tea color. So the solution I had to do top overhaul and change the block, piston, rings and cleaned valves.

Wow presto, the bike back to normal and always back to 1 bar and at most 2 bars, before any 3 bar appears.. the fan kick in and within mins drop to 1 bar. cheers

 

Thanks for sharing bro.

I also suspect that it might be head gasket.

 

May I ask how much was the damage for fixing up the head gasket and all?

Also did your exhaust pipe blow white smoke?

 

I checked my engine oil, clean. no signs of contamination.

However, my coolant looks like rust colour

[deepblur]

Bro, one quick check suggestion.

 

If you have access to water host, try drain the coolant and flush the tank with water (tap water), and see if the rust or engine oil drain out can clear after flushing.

 

Possible scenario:

 

1. rust reduce but still exist, tank rusted, need to replace tank

2. rust stopped, tank may still rusted, but may not need replace immediately, can check again 3 months time

3. not rust but engine oil mixture in coolant/water, can see if the drain out is oily, if yes, gasket gone, need to replace gasket

4. no EO, no rust after flush, possible some parts rusty, can be small or big trouble, come back here for more discussion.

 

 

 

Thanks for sharing bro.

I also suspect that it might be head gasket.

 

May I ask how much was the damage for fixing up the head gasket and all?

Also did your exhaust pipe blow white smoke?

 

I checked my engine oil, clean. no signs of contamination.

However, my coolant looks like rust colour

[Dino Bravo]

THanks guys. Think I'll take some pics and post here for better visual explanation. (If time permits)

At the same time, all can learn a thing or two too

[Dino Bravo]

Some updates. No pics tho.

All seems good when I checked these just now.

 

Coolant is not rust colour. Dunno why looks like brown in the bottle. But I used a torch light and shine

Inside, the container shows a redish pink hue (coolant colour). Double confirm by a quick dip with the tip

Tissue, yes it's pinkish red. Not rust colour

 

Engine running with coolant cap off. No signs of air bubbles or oil

 

Engine oil looks fine with no contamination.

Oil is nice translucent golden brown on the dip stick

 

Opened the 2 side cover which exposed the engine

Checked with touch. Visually looks ok. No oil leaks. Just some grime and dirt

 

I just hope it's not the engine gasket.

I don't seem to be getting of the symptoms of a worn out gasket

 

Still have to wait for Friday Zzzzzz

[Dino Bravo]

Some updates. No pics tho.

All seems good when I checked these just now.

 

Coolant is not rust colour. Dunno why looks like brown in the bottle. But I used a torch light and shine

Inside, the container shows a redish pink hue (coolant colour). Double confirm by a quick dip with the tip

Tissue, yes it's pinkish red. Not rust colour

 

Engine running with coolant cap off. No signs of air bubbles or oil

 

Engine oil looks fine with no contamination.

Oil is nice translucent golden brown on the dip stick

 

Opened the 2 side cover which exposed the engine

Checked with touch. Visually looks ok. No oil leaks. Just some grime and dirt

 

I just hope it's not the engine gasket.

I don't seem to be getting of the symptoms of a worn out gasket

 

Still have to wait for Friday Zzzzzz

[deepblur]

So what is the problem now? all seem ok.

 

If the temp not exceeding 3/4 or reached Red zone, should be ok and don't need to worry as long as the cooling fan turn on and off according to the temp.

 

If the fan only turn on at very high temp, good to replace the thermostat, another way is to install a manual by-pass switch (I did) to force always on fan when going for long ride (eg expressway), but not all the way as the fan life will shorten and battery will dry early though this is best to protect the engine.

 

I am looking into replacing the SYM thermostat with Honda or Yamaha parts as the quality of SYM thermostat is really questionable, too many users have thermostat problem after 1.5 to 2 years OTR.

 

Do take into consideration that the weather is getting hotter nowadays even the rider (we) also need more 'coolant' after ride, so temp can be higher and it is normal.

[deepblur]

So what is the problem now? all seem ok.

 

If the temp not exceeding 3/4 or reached Red zone, should be ok and don't need to worry as long as the cooling fan turn on and off according to the temp.

 

If the fan only turn on at very high temp, good to replace the thermostat, another way is to install a manual by-pass switch (I did) to force always on fan when going for long ride (eg expressway), but not all the way as the fan life will shorten and battery will dry early though this is best to protect the engine.

 

I am looking into replacing the SYM thermostat with Honda or Yamaha parts as the quality of SYM thermostat is really questionable, too many users have thermostat problem after 1.5 to 2 years OTR.

 

Do take into consideration that the weather is getting hotter nowadays even the rider (we) also need more 'coolant' after ride, so temp can be higher and it is normal.

[Dino Bravo]

Bro, all seems ok. but the temp tells me something is not right.

Which can get fustrating LOL.

This is getting interesting.

 

Temp goes up to 3bars, slowly but surely. Then it will eventually hit 4bars. On expressway riding. 90km/H RMP 7-8K constant.

 

Fan turns on from 2bars - 3bars. Funny thing when it reach 4bars, the fan CUT OFF.

never to on again. until bike cools down. then the whole thing repeats itself.

 

Temp is definately hot. doubt a faulty temp sensor.

THe underseat compartment is much hotter than before.

The coolant reseve tank is very hot to the touch. (but no boiling since changed reserve tank)

Coolant spill (little bit) due to excess heat. Spill from the relieve valve in the radiator cap i guess.

No leaks, no excessive coolant loss.

[deepblur]

I agreed you have an interesting problem, lets work it out and kill the naughty cat.

 

My feel:

 

1. the thermostat is sick, it shouldn't off when temp go higher??? >> replace it.

2. If there is spill, it is not right, as the proper way should be radiator cap being push up and open the channel between the radiator tank and the reserve tank, hotcold coolant exchange, excessive coolant over flow and leak through the reserve tank by-pass tube, not from the cap. >> the cap is faulty or not working correctly.

3. But if you said the reserve tank is hot, the channel should be open but why spill from the cap? >> did you close the cap properly?

4. Now, what coolant are you using? pre-mix or self mix? most coolant are green or blue colour, but you said yours is redish pink? >> kind of unusual to me, maybe I am not aware of sure coolant?

 

So at this stage, my recommendation is to install a by-pass switch to play safe in case you need to use it to force the fan on, it is good even after you replaced the thermostat as liquid cooled engine always damaged by failure of cooling system, something air cooled engine don't have to worry.

[Dino Bravo]

I agreed you have an interesting problem, lets work it out and kill the naughty cat.

 

My feel:

 

1. the thermostat is sick, it shouldn't off when temp go higher??? >> replace it.

2. If there is spill, it is not right, as the proper way should be radiator cap being push up and open the channel between the radiator tank and the reserve tank, hotcold coolant exchange, excessive coolant over flow and leak through the reserve tank by-pass tube, not from the cap. >> the cap is faulty or not working correctly.

3. But if you said the reserve tank is hot, the channel should be open but why spill from the cap? >> did you close the cap properly?

4. Now, what coolant are you using? pre-mix or self mix? most coolant are green or blue colour, but you said yours is redish pink? >> kind of unusual to me, maybe I am not aware of sure coolant?

 

So at this stage, my recommendation is to install a by-pass switch to play safe in case you need to use it to force the fan on, it is good even after you replaced the thermostat as liquid cooled engine always damaged by failure of cooling system, something air cooled engine don't have to worry.

 

yes kill the naughty cat.

Coolant cap closed properly and well tight.

The leak is not coming from the cap itself. but when i look underneath the bike, esp the internal part, where the coolant reserve tank is, there is some spilled coolant. not alot. just a splash or two.

 

Btw, the brand of coolant the bike is using is Maxima. Pre-Mix.

Its redish-pink in colour.

[deepblur]

Ok, looks like we found the cat.

 

My suggestions:

 

1. replace the thermostat

2. install a by-pass switch parallel to the thermostat

 

I think this should at least knock out the cat for time being, the spill is likely from the reserve tank over flow tube, not to worry than.

 

yes kill the naughty cat.

Coolant cap closed properly and well tight.

The leak is not coming from the cap itself. but when i look underneath the bike, esp the internal part, where the coolant reserve tank is, there is some spilled coolant. not alot. just a splash or two.

 

Btw, the brand of coolant the bike is using is Maxima. Pre-Mix.

Its redish-pink in colour.

[win_eskimo]

Hi.. I also facing the same problem as bro Dino Bravo.. Changed to engine ice coolent, same problem occurred, temp bar rised up to 3 bar with fan on... Other than that no major problem or leakage on the coolent radiator or reservoir.. Suspect it the themostat..

 

Which shop to recommend for the changed of thermostat and how much is the damage cost..???

[deepblur]

I am changing my thermostat, if you are interested, probably we can 'MO'

 

I intent to change it myself or at my friend's shop, if you are interested, can join me.

 

 

Hi.. I also facing the same problem as bro Dino Bravo.. Changed to engine ice coolent, same problem occurred, temp bar rised up to 3 bar with fan on... Other than that no major problem or leakage on the coolent radiator or reservoir.. Suspect it the themostat..

 

Which shop to recommend for the changed of thermostat and how much is the damage cost..???

[mdjjz]

As I said earlier thread, it caused by a blown gasket like my case and a small pin hole near the liner that heat up the coolant in the glands, that envelop the block, I spent tons of time and money, changing the thermostat, full flush coolant, full flush engine oil, change coolant tubes, but no avail,

Sure as found the naughty cat as the blown gasket and a pinhole leak that leaked hot exhaust air and extra boil the coolant and going thermostat to register 3 bar to four bar and steam coming off

Oh I spend $250- a second hand block, top overhaul , grind the valves, valve setting, new piston rings and top gasket...that does not include the other earlier cost for mumbo jumbo before diagnose this naughty cat lol

Edited January 26, 2012 by mdjjz

[win_eskimo]

I am changing my thermostat, if you are interested, probably we can 'MO'

 

I intent to change it myself or at my friend's shop, if you are interested, can join me.

 

How long would it takes for the order or MO?

Dont know if my bike can tahan the heat or not leh if have to wait somemore... Hehe....

[deepblur]

I am checking the price tomorrow, see if can get it cheaper if buy more pieces?

 

 

 

How long would it takes for the order or MO?

Dont know if my bike can tahan the heat or not leh if have to wait somemore... Hehe....

[deepblur]

Bro, your case if rather extreme, replacing gasket is not a big issue, although it involved a lot of work on removal and reconnect.

 

Top overhaul is also unavoidable after years of service or when extreme overheat occurred. Once the compression is dropping, it shows sight of valve problem and ready for top overhaul even without overheating.

 

Anyway, Bro good experience sharing

 

 

 

As I said earlier thread, it caused by a blown gasket like my case and a small pin hole near the liner that heat up the coolant in the glands, that envelop the block, I spent tons of time and money, changing the thermostat, full flush coolant, full flush engine oil, change coolant tubes, but no avail,

Sure as found the naughty cat as the blown gasket and a pinhole leak that leaked hot exhaust air and extra boil the coolant and going thermostat to register 3 bar to four bar and steam coming off

Oh I spend $250- a second hand block, top overhaul , grind the valves, valve setting, new piston rings and top gasket...that does not include the other earlier cost for mumbo jumbo before diagnose this naughty cat lol[ATTACH=CONFIG]233310[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]233311[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]233312[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]233313[/ATTACH]

[win_eskimo]

I am checking the price tomorrow, see if can get it cheaper if buy more pieces?

 

That would be great bro..

[mybikela]

Bros..

 

I was thinking of getting this bike...

 

I checked and found a 2nd hand one FBA plate for 3.8k

 

can i know wat to check for...

Further more i am a heavyweight..this bike got power to go up slope or not???..haha..

 

Also i read that theres problem on the exhaust bracket>>izzit true...

 

 

 

@@@@@looking for a 2nd Hand SYM@@@@

Which shop open today? Where can I get at?

[Dino Bravo]

As I said earlier thread, it caused by a blown gasket like my case and a small pin hole near the liner that heat up the coolant in the glands, that envelop the block, I spent tons of time and money, changing the thermostat, full flush coolant, full flush engine oil, change coolant tubes, but no avail,

Sure as found the naughty cat as the blown gasket and a pinhole leak that leaked hot exhaust air and extra boil the coolant and going thermostat to register 3 bar to four bar and steam coming off

Oh I spend $250- a second hand block, top overhaul , grind the valves, valve setting, new piston rings and top gasket...that does not include the other earlier cost for mumbo jumbo before diagnose this naughty cat lol[ATTACH=CONFIG]233310[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]233311[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]233312[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]233313[/ATTACH]

 

Hi Bro thanks for sharing.

Head gasket diagnosis will be the last resort and last bet.

Although highly possible, but I am not yet fully convinced because I can't find any symptoms or tell tale signs of a bad gasket.

 

I've buddies who changed headgasket as recommended by the mechs, but after that problem still exists. turns out its a bad water pump and bad thermostat.

 

What were the symptoms you experienced other than overheating?

Did you get oil in the coolant?

Coolant in the oil? (aka chocolate milk colour)

White smoke?

Sweet burning smell from the exhaust? (burning anti freeze)

 

A worn gasket will give at least 1 of these signs.