SBF SYM Cafe 2009 / 2010

[iskandershah]

Hi friends!

 

Thinking of getting a brand new Sym Joymax GTS 300i Evo.

 

But i have a few questions about it.

 

1. 300i is about 267.30 Displacement. Does that mean it is more cheaper and worth it to get the 250i instead of 300i?

2. Petrol Consumption and Top like? currently riding a Super4 Revo and i think my bike drinks petrol like orange juice!

3. Is the bike well known in all bike repair shops? or do i have to go to a official distributors for repair works.

4. Is the bike light at the front when the rear becomes heavy with 20kg worth of items in the box and a pillion? Is that dangerous?

5. To all Evo riders. how is the break down rate of this bike?

 

Someone please advice to this questions...

[deepblur]

If you are servicing your scooter, you can ask the mach to install the by-pass switch for you while the cover is taken out, just a switch parallel to the thermostat, save all the trouble to take out the covers again later just for the switch.

 

I am putting on an electronic thermo controller to further protect the radiator and the engine, the default temp for SYM to switch on the fan is 100 deg C, kind of crazy as the coolant is almost boil, I am going to activate the fan at 60~70 deg C as recommended by most expert, this will protect the valves also to prevent the high temp damage the valves.

 

The original SYM termo-switch is around $30, don't go the Mah, your head will drop.

 

 

 

Hi bro mdjzz, thanks for ur recommendation, will call him later & ask to check my GTS, hope nothing serious..

 

Hi deepblur, will call u up for the installation of the bypass switch for fan. For now need to go to the shop

that bro mdjzz recommend first.

[RTinc]

Most car/motorbike/scooter shipped with normal oil 'with additive' to give the best first ride experience but cannot last. During run-in, best is use non-syn oil to 'capture' the particulars during run-in, syn oil more on protection but not on capturing. Second oil change onward can use syn oil for smoothness and protection.

 

Hard run-in is good to get the engine and moving parts to season condition, but in fact this worn out the engine and moving parts, it is like running 5000km when you actually running for 1000km. This is especially true for small cc engine as the parts are tiny.

 

You feel good for the start but expect everything feel 'lose-lose' after 1~2 years (or est 20k mileages) of usage due to the accelerated and uneven worn of engine and parts. Most hard run-in bike/scooter need to do some overhaul after 30~50km mileages to restore the tight and power feel unless you don't mind or intent to sell it off fast.

 

First oil change is 300km for Sym and good to change again at 1000km (non-syn oil ok) and next change at 3000km (syn oil recommended), a bit kiasu but best for the health of the engine and moving parts especially if you intent to hard run-in.

 

Thanks deepblur for the very detail explanation!

So that mean i should change oil once i get my bike if im doing hard run in? but really funny if change oil when its new.

Its seem tat u wont recommend on 200i evo on hard run in right?

ill read up more 2night and see what ill do tmr.

[deepblur]

Not really know about 300i but the basic should be the same, the following is just my personal estimation, may not be correct.

 

1. so what is the true displacement for 250i? 50cc don't really play a lot of diff except for pickup/top speed and machine weight.

2. est'd 20+km/l as evo 200i is about 35km/l (best tuned, typical 30~32km/l) and GTS around 26~28km/l.

3. SYM is NOT well known to repair shop, some shop even don't service as the number of screws to deal with is a bit crazy for servicing, hence workmanship cost much higher but there are still more than enough shops to service SYM, don't go to Mah unless you really have no choice, very expensive.

4. in the first place, you need to enhance the bracket to support 20kg box, to standard bracket don't think can support 20kg. Scooter is relaxing but generally less safe than bike due to the sitting posture and lower CG, but if you don't speed, it is really fun to ride scooter. The worst thing about scooter is e-brake, very easy to lost control/balance and it don't like raining days, aqua-panning is one big issue to take note with the smaller wheels.

5. Evo is generally ok, I have friend with brand new evo i since launch and still work ok with proper maintenance and careful riding style, a lot of SYM scooter (GTS and evo included) suffers temp problem after 1.5 to 2 years, as the default termo-switch is crazily set to turn on at 100 deg C, compared to Honda and Yamaha which usually 70~80 deg C, so once the switch gone, the engine valves and head can easily gone too.

 

Be more careful about the total weight you intent to load (rider + pillion + cargo), as scooter has less payload weight compared to bike with the tiny shock absorbers, the belt will worn out faster also if the total weight is too high.

 

Hi friends!

 

Thinking of getting a brand new Sym Joymax GTS 300i Evo.

 

But i have a few questions about it.

 

1. 300i is about 267.30 Displacement. Does that mean it is more cheaper and worth it to get the 250i instead of 300i?

2. Petrol Consumption and Top like? currently riding a Super4 Revo and i think my bike drinks petrol like orange juice!

3. Is the bike well known in all bike repair shops? or do i have to go to a official distributors for repair works.

4. Is the bike light at the front when the rear becomes heavy with 20kg worth of items in the box and a pillion? Is that dangerous?

5. To all Evo riders. how is the break down rate of this bike?

 

Someone please advice to this questions...

[ppxv]

Wah one more evo on the road

[deepblur]

No prob RTinc, we just share what we known.

 

No, you don't change oil when you collect your evo, but after 300km to let the part set in, this is a must change step, the 1000km change is recommended though no mandatory to ensure the engine and moving part is clean after the initial run.

 

I will recommend wide spectrum run-in than hard run-in, this is a less known method but it has been used by more riders nowadays, you can google to find more info, in brief the comparison are as follow:

 

1. normal run-in, good for protecting the engine and moving parts, but it may restrict the spectrum of the engine if the rider always maintain at certain speed/RPM.

2. hard run-in, good to set in the season condition, most racers use this method but engine/moving parts life reduced. Need overhaul sooner than normal run-in in long term.

3. wide spectrum run-in, combination of normal and hard run-in, best for light-weight alloy and ceramic engine (evo use LWA with ceramic coated wall engine), generally using normal run-in but push hard gradually (not exceed recommend top speed) in 90/10, 80/20, 70/30, 60/40, 50%/50% (normal/hard) till around 3000km, speed spectrum 50/80, 60/90, 70/95. 80/100, 90/110km/h max. During first 5000km, do not exceed 110km/h for evo.

 

I will not say whether to recommend or not hard run-in on Evo, it is your preference but I believe you will push it too hard as Evo with the F/injection is really nice to ride and accelerate, I am riding one too, it reached 120km/h without any problem and still can go higher but I don't dare to as already in RPM red zone, I did it just to test the engine when I acquired it, normal day always under 90km/h like ahpak.

 

Anyway, welcome to Evo gang, for the evolution.

 

 

 

Thanks deepblur for the very detail explanation!

So that mean i should change oil once i get my bike if im doing hard run in? but really funny if change oil when its new.

Its seem tat u wont recommend on 200i evo on hard run in right?

ill read up more 2night and see what ill do tmr.

Edited January 31, 2012 by deepblur

[RTinc]

No prob RTinc, we just share what we known.

 

No, you don't change oil when you collect your evo, but after 300km to let the part set in, this is a must change step, the 1000km change is recommended though no mandatory to ensure the engine and moving part is clean after the initial run.

 

I will recommend wide spectrum run-in than hard run-in, this is a less known method but it has been used by more riders nowadays, you can google to find more info, in brief the comparison are as follow:

 

1. normal run-in, good for protecting the engine and moving parts, but it may restrict the spectrum of the engine if the rider always maintain at certain speed/RPM.

2. hard run-in, good to set in the season condition, most racers use this method but engine/moving parts life reduced. Need overhaul sooner than normal run-in in long term.

3. wide spectrum run-in, combination of normal and hard run-in, best for light-weight alloy and ceramic engine (evo use LWA with ceramic coated wall engine), generally using normal run-in but push hard gradually (not exceed recommend top speed) in 90/10, 80/20, 70/30, 60/40, 50%/50% (normal/hard) till around 3000km, speed spectrum 50/80, 60/90, 70/95. 80/100, 90/110km/h max. During first 5000km, do not exceed 110km/h for evo.

 

I will not say whether to recommend or not hard run-in on Evo, it is your preference but I believe you will push it too hard as Evo with the F/injection is really nice to ride and accelerate, I am riding one too, it reached 120km/h without any problem and still can go higher but I don't dare to as already in RPM red zone, I did it just to test the engine when I acquired it, normal day always under 90km/h like ahpak.

 

Anyway, welcome to Evo gang, for the evolution.

 

Thanks bro. U are really into motoring and its knowledge! Got more to learn and share with you, im into learning more of scooter parts and engine as was a tank mechi durin ns days.

 

Ill reserach more into the wide spectrum run-in, seem lik a great inbetween normal and hard run in. should have ask in this earlier so can reserach more. but it s late better den nv. gona burn midnight oil 2nite, lol.

 

cheers! to evo riders!

[deepblur]

Bro why worry so much, just collect your scooter, check everything (light, horn, signal, vibration, noise, screws*) to ensure ok, bring her for your first ride gently and enjoy, just don't push it too hard.

 

Sure we can learn from each other more, I am just doing hobby on bike/scooter for about a year, backing on my hobby experience on toying with car engine and electronic enhancement for the past 20+ years but now getting a bit too old (considered retired) to do major work on them, only minor toying around these little machines.

 

* You will surprise that Sym screws very 'screw out' easily, they need to really improve on 'screw' technology.

 

Thanks bro. U are really into motoring and its knowledge! Got more to learn and share with you, im into learning more of scooter parts and engine as was a tank mechi durin ns days.

 

Ill reserach more into the wide spectrum run-in, seem lik a great inbetween normal and hard run in. should have ask in this earlier so can reserach more. but it s late better den nv. gona burn midnight oil 2nite, lol.

 

cheers! to evo riders!

[RTinc]

Bro why worry so much, just collect your scooter, check everything (light, horn, signal, vibration, noise, screws*) to ensure ok, bring her for your first ride gently and enjoy, just don't push it too hard.

 

Sure we can learn from each other more, I am just doing hobby on bike/scooter for about a year, backing on my hobby experience on toying with car engine and electronic enhancement for the past 20+ years but now getting a bit too old (considered retired) to do major work on them, only minor toying around these little machines.

 

* You will surprise that Sym screws very 'screw out' easily, they need to really improve on 'screw' technology.

 

lol its kinda my 1st ride after my last time 2nd hand vespa lx125, and normally i think & reserach quite alot b4 i buy the item.

Yes its truth to just enjoy the ride, singapore also v hard to do hard run in. i can only think at expressway to ride lik 100-110 but d suddenly braking will cost life.

btw i dont seem to find much able (wide spectrum run-in) when i googled it. can share some link with me? thanks

[deepblur]

I have a book on this subject loan to a friend, let me see if I can get it back and scan some of the pages for reference. I personally never google it before (sorry bro) so not sure about any searchable link available, they may have call it other technical name.

 

lol its kinda my 1st ride after my last time 2nd hand vespa lx125, and normally i think & reserach quite alot b4 i buy the item.

Yes its truth to just enjoy the ride, singapore also v hard to do hard run in. i can only think at expressway to ride lik 100-110 but d suddenly braking will cost life.

btw i dont seem to find much able (wide spectrum run-in) when i googled it. can share some link with me? thanks

[RTinc]

I have a book on this subject loan to a friend, let me see if I can get it back and scan some of the pages for reference. I personally never google it before (sorry bro) so not sure about any searchable link available, they may have call it other technical name.

 

Nah it alright, dont need to apologise. Really appreciate ur help.

i have read abit when i google hard run in, my best guess tml will b follow the hard run in menthod but will b safe and wont run do the super hard run in but rather middle n will twist more wen there safe to do so. will change oil @ 300km & 1000km and thereafter den change to synthetic oil

[deepblur]

Just don't forget the belt, rollers, variator and final drive need to run-in as well, scooter is unlike bike, auto is bad in this case as you can't control them.

 

Be prepare to change the belt earlier (8000km maybe) as the hard run in will for sure at the expense of the belt, saw too many belt broken less than stated life span and some even resulted in accident due to rear wheel jammed with the belt in the final drive. Anyway, belt set is cheap, around $80+ for Sym original, don't save on this item.

[RTinc]

Just don't forget the belt, rollers, variator and final drive need to run-in as well, scooter is unlike bike, auto is bad in this case as you can't control them.

 

Be prepare to change the belt earlier (8000km maybe) as the hard run in will for sure at the expense of the belt, saw too many belt broken less than stated life span and some even resulted in accident due to rear wheel jammed with the belt in the final drive. Anyway, belt set is cheap, around $80+ for Sym original, don't save on this item.

 

Sure will tk note on tat, thanks mate!

got 1 qestion for u bro on the wide spectrum run-in: what you mean on this "(not exceed recommend top speed) in 90/10, 80/20, 70/30, 60/40, 50%/50% (normal/hard) till around 3000km, speed spectrum 50/80, 60/90, 70/95. 80/100, 90/110km/h max. During first 5000km, do not exceed 110km/h for evo."

care to explain more in detail? thanks.

[deepblur]

1. don't exceed top speed, Evo top speed is 110km/h as found in some Chinese (TW) website.

2. 90/10 means 90% normal run-in and 10% hard run-in when riding, don't have to keep continuous but roughly this portion of time travelled around 50km/h (90%) and up to 80km/h (10%), need to vary between this range to pre-set/condition the wall and bearings.

3. gradually increase the speed after each stage of run-in, each stage should be at least 300km, best 500km if you can tahan the slowness. At the end stage, the run-in speed is almost the same (up to 90/110km/h), it doesn't mean you need to travel at the speed but is up to that speed, don't pressure yourself too much on ratio of speed, you may ride at your preferred style after first 1500km as the engine and all moving parts should be season enough by them, just don't speed to hard to prevent over-stress the parts.

4. you will notice the FC drops (more km/l) after 2nd or 3rd stage, don't be alarm of the FC is very high initially, its normal as everything is tight.

5. try to avoid pit hole or super high hump, as you may break some screw if you run over them too fast. SYM has bad assembly process, some of the screws are too tight and they don't pre-oil treat the screw like the Japanese and this can be a problem later at servicing, either the screw break if too tight or rusty or fall off during heat expansion (very common problem on GTS exhaust)

 

A properly run in Evo don't vibrate a lot, thanks to the fuel injection as air/fuel mixture is better controlled, this sweet spot best to observe around 5~8k mileage, after that it will start to vibrate as the spark plug lost efficiency and some screw starts to loss (need to check and tighten as appropriate), also air filter start to get dirty.

 

Sayang your scooter a bit and she will serve you well for long time, Evo is a good scooter although still have a lot of room to improve by Sym.

 

 

Sure will tk note on tat, thanks mate!

got 1 qestion for u bro on the wide spectrum run-in: what you mean on this "(not exceed recommend top speed) in 90/10, 80/20, 70/30, 60/40, 50%/50% (normal/hard) till around 3000km, speed spectrum 50/80, 60/90, 70/95. 80/100, 90/110km/h max. During first 5000km, do not exceed 110km/h for evo."

care to explain more in detail? thanks.

[RTinc]

1. don't exceed top speed, Evo top speed is 110km/h as found in some Chinese (TW) website.

2. 90/10 means 90% normal run-in and 10% hard run-in when riding, don't have to keep continuous but roughly this portion of time travelled around 50km/h (90%) and up to 80km/h (10%), need to vary between this range to pre-set/condition the wall and bearings.

3. gradually increase the speed after each stage of run-in, each stage should be at least 300km, best 500km if you can tahan the slowness. At the end stage, the run-in speed is almost the same (up to 90/110km/h), it doesn't mean you need to travel at the speed but is up to that speed, don't pressure yourself too much on ratio of speed, you may ride at your preferred style after first 1500km as the engine and all moving parts should be season enough by them, just don't speed to hard to prevent over-stress the parts.

4. you will notice the FC drops (more km/l) after 2nd or 3rd stage, don't be alarm of the FC is very high initially, its normal as everything is tight.

5. try to avoid pit hole or super high hump, as you may break some screw if you run over them too fast. SYM has bad assembly process, some of the screws are too tight and they don't pre-oil treat the screw like the Japanese and this can be a problem later at servicing, either the screw break if too tight or rusty or fall off during heat expansion (very common problem on GTS exhaust)

 

A properly run in Evo don't vibrate a lot, thanks to the fuel injection as air/fuel mixture is better controlled, this sweet spot best to observe around 5~8k mileage, after that it will start to vibrate as the spark plug lost efficiency and some screw starts to loss (need to check and tighten as appropriate), also air filter start to get dirty.

 

Sayang your scooter a bit and she will serve you well for long time, Evo is a good scooter although still have a lot of room to improve by Sym.

 

Thanks for the explaination! i get the clearer picture.

Ya i understand the issue with lousy bolts or over/undertoque nuts. worse is to hav broken nut/bolts. so did u check with to a better bolts/nuts with antiseize/oil?

[deepblur]

I usually replace the screws with stainless type as far as I can get the same/similar type and use gear oil to condition them before use, so far this work best for my bikes.

 

Thanks for the explaination! i get the clearer picture.

Ya i understand the issue with lousy bolts or over/undertoque nuts. worse is to hav broken nut/bolts. so did u check with to a better bolts/nuts with antiseize/oil?

[iskandershah]

Wow seems like SYM durability is not really something to be proud off...

[yeokh]

Nah it alright, dont need to apologise. Really appreciate ur help.

i have read abit when i google hard run in, my best guess tml will b follow the hard run in menthod but will b safe and wont run do the super hard run in but rather middle n will twist more wen there safe to do so. will change oil @ 300km & 1000km and thereafter den change to synthetic oil

 

Motoman's method -- 1st 30 km is most crucial. Accelerate and decelerate for a few cycles up to 65 mph (about 105 km/hr max). Change engine oil after 30 km!!

 

But pl do it safely. I did my hard run in at a relatively deserted road -- Punggol Road jetty area.

 

Did my second oil change at 300 km just to be safe (cos it was recommended by the manual). Will do my next change at 3000 km.

[RTinc]

I usually replace the screws with stainless type as far as I can get the same/similar type and use gear oil to condition them before use, so far this work best for my bikes.

 

Ya i think stainless will b good, since it wont rust den d screw head will rust till out of shape till cant even take out and it stronger than norm screw.

when i was repairing tank, we use a very good oil with the name of anti-seize so d bolt wont stuck after v long use.

 

Anyway cant get my bike 2day, mah call n say Lta doing homogation inspection. sian took leave den gona fake.

Haha should ask for more discount or freebie,

[RTinc]

Motoman's method -- 1st 30 km is most crucial. Accelerate and decelerate for a few cycles up to 65 mph (about 105 km/hr max). Change engine oil after 30 km!!

 

But pl do it safely. I did my hard run in at a relatively deserted road -- Punggol Road jetty area.

 

Did my second oil change at 300 km just to be safe (cos it was recommended by the manual). Will do my next change at 3000 km.

 

Thanks yeokh! since i cant get my bike today as promise, ill do more serach on run in and compare all den see which fit me best.

Cheers 4 all help!

[deepblur]

To face the truth, the scooter and engine always clocked more than 30km (maybe) during assembly and test run, only they don't plug in the speedometer to keep it near to zero.

 

Motoman's method -- 1st 30 km is most crucial. Accelerate and decelerate for a few cycles up to 65 mph (about 105 km/hr max). Change engine oil after 30 km!!

 

But pl do it safely. I did my hard run in at a relatively deserted road -- Punggol Road jetty area.

 

Did my second oil change at 300 km just to be safe (cos it was recommended by the manual). Will do my next change at 3000 km.

[deepblur]

Sad to hear that, but good for you as have more time to do research, maybe can demand for more freebies from Mah.

 

Anti-seize oil is good but not so easy to buy, do remember that the whole engine is aluminium, so don't force too much as if the damage is on the case side, big big trouble than a broken screw.

 

Good luck Bro, maybe we should meet after you got your new girl friend ready.

 

Ya i think stainless will b good, since it wont rust den d screw head will rust till out of shape till cant even take out and it stronger than norm screw.

when i was repairing tank, we use a very good oil with the name of anti-seize so d bolt wont stuck after v long use.

 

Anyway cant get my bike 2day, mah call n say Lta doing homogation inspection. sian took leave den gona fake.

Haha should ask for more discount or freebie,

[deepblur]

SYM is doing quote a reasonable job I should put it, not really first class but still better than many others.

 

Have to consider the pricing in Taiwan, very cheap and parts are easily available unlike here, so a little compromise on quality is acceptable to them to keep the cost low.

 

Just don't leave the little lamb into wrong hand, as far as possible, do it yourself, she is just a simple machine need a lot of love, LOL...!

 

 

Wow seems like SYM durability is not really something to be proud off...

[iskandershah]

Is she more trustworthy then a Phantom TA200?

 

My previous phantom 200 screwed up big time.. Every year engine over haul!

[RTinc]

Sad to hear that, but good for you as have more time to do research, maybe can demand for more freebies from Mah.

 

Anti-seize oil is good but not so easy to buy, do remember that the whole engine is aluminium, so don't force too much as if the damage is on the case side, big big trouble than a broken screw.

 

Good luck Bro, maybe we should meet after you got your new girl friend ready.

 

Yea man, still reading on.

I already msg the malay sales of ah chew to giv me discount or freebie when i gt my bike, haha.

thanks. yea we should meet up! and discuss about our dear fren. haha