how can i go about claiming back my money?

[jameschua33]

Hi guys,

 

I've got a sub rider who owes me and bike shop an amount of $1800 which have seen to ignore. I've got an agreement letter with his signature and my signature but wasn't draft out by any lawyer.

 

I would like advice if anyone encounter this and have since solved to problem.

 

I'm actually think of going the legal way but it seems difficult. I don't mind spending a few hundreds to fight this case.

 

Anyone can advice?

[jameschua33]

If you guys like to have his name or nick can pm me. just in case he goes around and do the same thing.

[edfck]

bro, fm wat i know, agreement letter, whether drafted by lawyer or not is still valid. go get a lawyer 2 sue him.

[sadsadboi]

good luck to you..

[xduke]

bro, fm wat i know, agreement letter, whether drafted by lawyer or not is still valid. go get a lawyer 2 sue him.

 

 

 

pointless ....... from wat i experienced, agreement letter wont help anything, its like u wasting your time and money. Those who wanna give out their bikes to COI should learn from this. My advise is, firstly if can, dont let people COI yr bike even closest friend or relatives, juz return it to bike shop and pay up yr excess. Secondly, if u COI out, get at least a 2 mth deposit, 1 month never pay instalment, deposit gone and u take back the bike without any mercy, or report to the police as bike stolen or riding without permission from owner if he is uncontactable or reach. Thirdly, try make your sub-rider as a guarantor for the bike. If he not pay instalment, he also be involved as done by AS Phoon.

 

An advise to you, u try go nego for the amount owed, go settle off everything slowly, rather than pay a lawyer and court fees as well as wasting your time + suffering from High Blood Pressure. If u really want to sue him, the process will really takes bout more than 3 years to argue.

 

So, to those people who desperately wanna others to takeover COI their bikes, please took very extra precautions, do not rush. Think Far. I've already experienced 2 of these COI nonsense, couple of years back.

[sayhitojason]

For $1800, it might not be worth your while to take the legal route. Take back your bike if you haven't already done so and collect what you can.

[Sky Sim - SyNs]

Did you get any details and the particulars of the guy? If you have all the details you should be able to find a way out. Wish you good luck dude. Hope your issue can be resolved asap.

[GR1Y]

to open a file for legal sue,cheapest is ard $500....even if u engage lawyer,they might only help u file a small claim...nt much usuage

[recycled2wheeler]

As far as I know, Small Claims will not intervene. U need to go Civil.. Long story wich I feel at d end of d day will spend more than d $1.8k he owes u.

If i were u... go to the cops, report bike stolen... Jail his ass, get bike back & sell off...

 

my 2 cents...

[elmoakajeremy]

lol since you're the owner just remove his name sub rider la...

but warn him first, ask him pay back...

if not just make police report..

 

if he's u21, and doc signed by him is voided..

[Wiliberry]

Gd luk to you bro....Btw,wat bike is tat?

[Boon6600]

As far as I know, Small Claims will not intervene. U need to go Civil.. Long story wich I feel at d end of d day will spend more than d $1.8k he owes u.

If i were u... go to the cops, report bike stolen... Jail his ass, get bike back & sell off...

 

my 2 cents...

 

Please do not make a any false report or in the end got yourself in deep ****.

[thr33]

Hi guys,

 

I've got a sub rider who owes me and bike shop an amount of $1800 which have seen to ignore. I've got an agreement letter with his signature and my signature but wasn't draft out by any lawyer.

 

I would like advice if anyone encounter this and have since solved to problem.

 

I'm actually think of going the legal way but it seems difficult. I don't mind spending a few hundreds to fight this case.

 

Anyone can advice?

 

hi bro.. if yr agreement letter you have drawn up with yr sub rider clearly states his name/IC number, the terms and contract of him using yr bike as a sub such as, that he has to pay the installments on time, for any summons or any other offenses while the bike is under his charge, bring that piece of agreement letter to the police. They will go with the charge of breach of contract or criminal breach of trust or maybe even cheating. But breach of contract is a confirm charge that he will face if you bring it up.

 

For me, there was once I let an unknown person to be my sub, what I did was to state my terms of the contract, if he does not pay, what are my expectances from him[eg to make up for towing fees, late payment fees etc.] I even state the chassis number and engine number of the vehicle, I also took his thumbprint to make sure he does not cry foul stating that he did not sign the contract. It's all up to one's 'creative' mind to include these terms in. 'creative' I would say, but it's better to be safe than sorry.

 

That's why Im not willing to be sub rider of some people who are letting go their bikes, I put myselves in their shoes if something crops up, and the bike goes wrong or installments not paid etc, I would feel the pain too. Hopefully other bros out there would benefit from this. Unless you have total trust in the guy, then by all means, go ahead with the sub rider thingy. Other than that. The contract kicks in.

 

If you need any advise look me up aye bro. Cheers.

[Owen0606]

upsupsups... upss.... trust is the key words...

[â â]

hi bro.. if yr agreement letter you have drawn up with yr sub rider clearly states his name/IC number, the terms and contract of him using yr bike as a sub such as, that he has to pay the installments on time, for any summons or any other offenses while the bike is under his charge, bring that piece of agreement letter to the police. They will go with the charge of breach of contract or criminal breach of trust or maybe even cheating. But breach of contract is a confirm charge that he will face if you bring it up..

 

you are either naive or overly optimistic.

 

Anybody can bring a piece of paper with some signatures on it and deny all responsibilities.

 

Is the so called "Agreement Letter" notarized ? Even if that letter was drafted by the best lawyer in Singapore, but it was not notarized, that letter will have little weight in the eyes of the law.

 

Police only deal with criminal cases, and breach of contract is not a criminal case. The only advice the Police can offer is to take it up on your own.

 

For CBT, and cheating charges, what's the proof ? The TS only mentioned that the sub-rider is not contactable which could also mean that the sub-rider could not contact the TS as he could be in prison, in coma......

 

Should you want engage a lawyer to take him to court, do bear in mind the cost involved, and there is no guarantee that situation may turn in your favor.

 

The first salvo is a Letter of Demand which will cost you about $150. To do that, you must have his address for it to be served. Things will start to get seriously expensive once the lawyer works his brain, and market rate is about $300/hr, and that exclude appearance for mediation or in court.

 

Now, if you have his address, why do you knock the door on your own.

[coolcat]

A document does not have to be notarised for it to be admissible as evidence in court. So long as the author of the document and the parties can be identified, and the contents are legible, the document can be used.

 

Your main issue is that the bike shop is not obliged to "recognise" your sub-rider as the person liable, so you have to bear the claim by the bike shop first and then claim your loss separately from the sub-rider, based on your COI agreement with him.

 

My take is to cut your losses now, repossess the bike and settle with the bike shop, and then you move against the sub-rider later. If the bike shop is inclined to sue you, it will only expose you to more losses.

 

Generally legal proceedings takes time and money, if the amount owing is $1,800, then while it may be worthwhile to issue a letter of demand, to push the matter onto litigation is not worth it since litigation cost can range from at least $1,000 (for an early settlement) to a few thousands for a full trial.

 

Visiting the debtor and extracting money yourself is probably the cheapest way to do this.

 

Cheers

 

Cat

[GuiNNeSS]

the first thing to do is to go to the bike shop and pay up the difference.

 

2nd thing is whether you want to tow back the bike. If you do, take it back.

 

As long as your insurance has nhis name on it. You cannot make any police report because he didnt steal your bike, you let him ride. It wont change that situation even if you change your subrider name.

 

3rd thing is to take the receipt of your payment and that agreement to a lawyer to discuss your options.

[thr33]

you are either naive or overly optimistic.

 

Anybody can bring a piece of paper with some signatures on it and deny all responsibilities.

 

Is the so called "Agreement Letter" notarized ? Even if that letter was drafted by the best lawyer in Singapore, but it was not notarized, that letter will have little weight in the eyes of the law.

 

Police only deal with criminal cases, and breach of contract is not a criminal case. The only advice the Police can offer is to take it up on your own.

 

For CBT, and cheating charges, what's the proof ? The TS only mentioned that the sub-rider is not contactable which could also mean that the sub-rider could not contact the TS as he could be in prison, in coma......

 

Should you want engage a lawyer to take him to court, do bear in mind the cost involved, and there is no guarantee that situation may turn in your favor.

 

The first salvo is a Letter of Demand which will cost you about $150. To do that, you must have his address for it to be served. Things will start to get seriously expensive once the lawyer works his brain, and market rate is about $300/hr, and that exclude appearance for mediation or in court.

 

Now, if you have his address, why do you knock the door on your own.

 

Bro. Get yr facts right before calling people naive. As a matter of fact I do have experience of this. And my main intention here is to help, and what is yours? To flame or to help someone in dire need of advise?

 

I agree with you on one point however that Police do not deal with non criminal cases. But in this case however. How do you explain that there is no criminal offense committed This has an element of cheating. And cheating itself tantamounts to a criminal offense. Even if you wanna press on saying that this has no criminal element in it, fine. Go to the magistrate court. They will then empower the police to investigate.

 

Police officers are empowered powers of investigation only when they are given the rights to do so when the case is a non-seizable offense. And when they are given the rights to investigate; is it still considered a non-criminal offense? Please re-consider to yr statement on whom you are calling naive first.

 

You also brought up the point of our poor bro going to his address and knocking on his door? And you proposed the idea of confronting the sub rider at his place. And what will YOU do i ask? Shout,beg, cry,assualt,threaten? Or should I say.. harass? That puts you in the same EXACT position as an unathorised money lender, or what some "NAIVE" people would call: ah long san.

 

If you are so experienced in legal issues, then I urge you to write in to the board.;

Cases like voluntarily causing hurt, in the eyes of the law, it is not a seizable offense. Thus victims are issued with a form, who in turn have to approach the magistrate court. The magistrate court then empowers the police to investigate. Would you call this a non criminal case? I say it is, just that it doesnt allows the police sufficient powers to act. This case is similar to our poor bro's incident. So now, would you retract yr accusation?

 

"Anybody can bring a piece of paper with some signatures on it and deny all responsibilities. "- you quoted that.

- That's why I suggested the idea of getting his thumb impression as well. Like duh~~~ anyone can just claim that it was not his signature............

 

Why would you not refrain from flaming, and accusing, and just focus the matter at hand.

[ndy]

trust is always been abused. never trust 100%, always keep 20% yrself.

[thr33]

A document does not have to be notarised for it to be admissible as evidence in court. So long as the author of the document and the parties can be identified, and the contents are legible, the document can be used.

Cat

 

-Totally agree man. You talk with knowledge!

[thr33]

Now, if you have his address, why do you knock the door on your own.

Which one of you dumb folks would allow someone.. apart from yr close friend/relative, to be your sub rider. You should at least have an address for verification purposes.

I know I wont' allow just anyone to be my sub-rider without knowing his identity.

[JustRider]

The concept of COI is amazingly fraught with pitfalls for the main and sub-rider. Sub-rider can play out the main rider by not paying his dues, the main rider can really make life difficult for the sub rider since the insurance is in his name.

 

It is best to avoid such schemes, because it requires an agreement between two gentlemen, and if there is any breach, there is very little the other party can do.

[dragonforce]

hi TS

engaging a lawyer isnt cheap.. and the time, trouble $$ you spend MIGHT not be worth whatever you are getting back..

[BlackBandit]

Bro. Get yr facts right before calling people naive. As a matter of fact I do have experience of this. And my main intention here is to help, and what is yours? To flame or to help someone in dire need of advise?

 

I agree with you on one point however that Police do not deal with non criminal cases. But in this case however. How do you explain that there is no criminal offense committed This has an element of cheating. And cheating itself tantamounts to a criminal offense. Even if you wanna press on saying that this has no criminal element in it, fine. Go to the magistrate court. They will then empower the police to investigate.

 

Police officers are empowered powers of investigation only when they are given the rights to do so when the case is a non-seizable offense. And when they are given the rights to investigate; is it still considered a non-criminal offense? Please re-consider to yr statement on whom you are calling naive first.

 

You also brought up the point of our poor bro going to his address and knocking on his door? And you proposed the idea of confronting the sub rider at his place. And what will YOU do i ask? Shout,beg, cry,assualt,threaten? Or should I say.. harass? That puts you in the same EXACT position as an unathorised money lender, or what some "NAIVE" people would call: ah long san.

 

If you are so experienced in legal issues, then I urge you to write in to the board.;

Cases like voluntarily causing hurt, in the eyes of the law, it is not a seizable offense. Thus victims are issued with a form, who in turn have to approach the magistrate court. The magistrate court then empowers the police to investigate. Would you call this a non criminal case? I say it is, just that it doesnt allows the police sufficient powers to act. This case is similar to our poor bro's incident. So now, would you retract yr accusation?

 

"Anybody can bring a piece of paper with some signatures on it and deny all responsibilities. "- you quoted that.

- That's why I suggested the idea of getting his thumb impression as well. Like duh~~~ anyone can just claim that it was not his signature............

 

Why would you not refrain from flaming, and accusing, and just focus the matter at hand.

 

Bro,

Not taking sides here but in this case, it cannot be tantamount to Cheating unless Mens Rea & Actus Rea can be proven, meaning Criminal Intent & Criminal Act.

 

In the case of Voluntary Causing Hurt, the law enacts that the offence is non-seizable to protect all parties. Unless it is in view of the officers, (which would make it Affray) there will be abuse if the offence is made seizable. Imagine if you don't like a person, you may just call for police & have him arrested on the bogus charge of VCH.

 

And by the way, any agreement between two or more parties, verbal (Yes, verbal!) or written, does not have to be notarized to be admissible in court. It will be the onus of the parties to prove their worth and legitimacy in front of the Magistrate.

[GuiNNeSS]

Which one of you dumb folks would allow someone.. apart from yr close friend/relative, to be your sub rider. You should at least have an address for verification purposes.

I know I wont' allow just anyone to be my sub-rider without knowing his identity.

 

That depends on how a person is generous with friends.

 

There are always some good friends, that downgraded themselves to accquaintance in any seconds.

 

There are also relatives that knows to get into trouble but the main rider suffer the consequences.

 

Its naive to suggest that only yourself have the knowledge and experience in any matter.