Recreational Running

[vyruz]

i'm also interested in the 2XU half-mara, but right now i'm concerned that i may have developed plantar fasciitis on my left foot. i didn see a doctor or have it diagnosed but the symptoms seem to fit.

 

apparently you're supposed to stay off running for up to 6 weeks but i'm too addicted to stop. i started back on daily 8k after just 3 days of rest and found that i could only run in my New Balance Minimus Zero because i had to run in a pure forefoot strike; anything approaching midfoot, even the slightest load on my midfoot, would send a stabbing pain.

 

That sucks. I have a slight pain in the sole of my left foot, so I definitely understand. You want to keep pushing but at the same time you don't want to do so much damage that you're out of action for ages. Hope it gets better soon bro.

 

I'm not a fan of Saucony Virratas. Like you, I suspect your Virratas might have something to do with your injury. The transition you did back to the Minimus Zero supports this. I did two 12km runs in my Virratas and have never used them since. It felt way over-cushy and too grippy if that makes sense.

[mechwira]

 

I'm not a fan of Saucony Virratas...... It felt way over-cushy and too grippy if that makes sense.

 

Yes!!! It does!!! Exactly the 2 things I thought after just 2 runs in the virrata!

 

At first they felt very similar to the kinvara but after I went back to the kinvara I realized the kinvara was firmer.

 

I donno how or why but the softness of the sole, plus a strange hard lump at the arch, made it impossible for me to even walk in the virrata now. I'm now considering getting the merell bare access or road glove for shoe rotation. I cant run with just one pair.

Edited December 10, 2013 by mechwira

[mechwira]

Personal Review: Saucony Virrata

 

http://www.prodirectrunning.com/productimages/Main/54566.jpg

http://cdn.sneakerreport.com/assets/2012/09/Saucony-4.jpg

 

I have only logged 40km in these shoes, consisting of intervals, fast 5's and a long and casual 15k. the reason why i write a review after such low mileage is because, as heart pain as it is to burn $140 on these, i have been forced to discard them. but more on that later.

 

when i first thought of buying these, i was looking for a cushioned zero drop shoe. and the Virrata is definitely it. its got mostly positive reviews all over the net. the flexible zero-drop sole makes it natural to midfoot strike and also allows a forefoot strike if you want, unlike the kinvara which is natural in midfoot strike but the 4mm drop and less flexible sole made forefoot strike slightly awkward. it has a very plush cushion and a very soft upper good enough for sockless BUT i found that the virrata's rear collar simply would not stop sliding up and down and therefore to avoid blisters i could not go sockless in these. its grippy coz the outsole is made up of nearly all soft deep lugs of EVA+ (see pic), which is actually the material of the midsole cushion and probably why the virrata is so plush too. but... we're bikers, we know if you get grippy soft tyres then the trade-off is longevity. needless to say, you don;t 'feel the ground' in these like true minimalist but if in the first place you want a cushioned shoe then this should be a good thing.

 

the problem was.... i was wrong in that a cushioned zero drop shoe was NOT what i could use after all.

 

the short of it is, the virrata was possibly the cause of, or at the very least aggravated, a running injury on my left foot which i believe to be plantar fasciitis (did not get proper diagnosis). in my self analysis, i have concluded that the culprit is the thick and plush cushion of the virrata. although it is made for mid and forefoot strike, the plush cushioning hides my poor form. if you're a 'real' runner, you will know you frequently 'space out' mentally during the run, especially when you're tired. in the 'real minimalist' New Balance MR Zero, i can feel with every foot strike whether i was landing fore, mid or especially heel. just one heel strike in my space-out moment, and i will feel it and be reminded to correct my running form. but the virrata's plush cushion hides each heel strike. i would space out for several hundred meters and then self-check my running form only to realize i've been lightly heel striking for quite awhile.

 

and then comes the second problem. maybe its because i'm flat-footed and severely over-pronate, but since i started running 'seriously', i found that ultra-soft shoes cause my ankle to roll too much which very quickly causes pain similar to ankle sprain. this ankle stability is no issue in a pure forefoot strike (because you pronate very little), and only a slight problem in midfoot strike. but since the virrata hides my poor form (or i walk which naturally uses heel-to-toe), then my ankle instability adds to my injury woes in the virrata.

 

and so in conclusion, i have to discard the virrata. i have to stress here that the main problem is that the virrata does not match my particular biomechanics. assessed purely as a 'well-cushioned zero-drop shoe', then the virrata is definitely it. apparently saucony has determined that there are people who want to do midfoot strike but want a softer ride coz they cant stand harsh minimalist shoes. if this is you, there should be plenty to like about the virrata. you just have to be sure that a cushioned zero drop shoe is definitely what you want/need.

[ticks]

Hey guys. Just FYI. I just came back from Bali and was surprised at how much more shoes and sports wear costs so much more over here. I bought a saucony kinvara for less than sgd60. It was priced at around sgd100 to begin with. My gf got a nike gym shoe at sgd120 when it's priced at sgd180 in singapore.

 

So if you want shoes or sports apparel. Make a trip there I suppose? Haha.

 

And I tried my kinvara at the gym the night I got it but only did 2.4 in it so have yet to get personalized to it. But as mechwira mentioned, I did feel some hard/numb feel to the sole. Only distance will reveal more of this shoe later on.

 

Cheers guys! Happy running!

[mechwira]

wow, and that $60 is the kinvara4? coz if kinvara3 not so surprising, some stores in sg clearing stock the 3 model for 69, but a kinvara4 for that price is a dam good bargain price.

 

ya the kinvara is firmer than the virrata coz it has a harder more durable powergrid heel insert, and it only has lugs in the forefoot, the lugs are not very deep and i believe they're the harder outsole material. the virrata's outsole is almost entirely deep soft lugs of eva+ cushioning material.

 

enjoy the kinvara, i keep saying they're great long distance midfoot shoes. let us know if your calves start hurting again

[ticks]

Haha. That I have to check again if it's 3/4. I also saw the merrell road glove going at $100 too before discount. But again not sure if its old model or not. Will start running tonight for long distance and see how it goes.

 

Thanks!

[mechwira]

wow, now a road glove at $100 before discount. again assuming latest ver 2, another dam good bargain price. bali a bit far, wonder if i can find the same in batam...

 

coincidentally after i abandoned the virrata, i looked at the Merrell Road Glove and Bare Access. i needed a third shoe in my rotation to replace the ill-fated virrata, and i now know i need something more minimal, closer to the Minimus Zero. the two Merell seemed to fit my requirement; unfortunately Royal Sporting House only carried sizes US 8 and US 9 and i needed a US 8.5 (or UK 8). neither the US 8 or US 9 would fit properly, so i had to give it up.

 

interestingly the Road Glove had a strange 'pinch' at both sides of the midfoot, like a hand gripping your feet at the sides. very strange and other reviewers have commented the same feeling though they all claimed the 'pinch' disappears when you run in mid/forefoot strike.

 

then i wanted the Skechers GoBionic; but most Skechers stores only carried the GoBionic Ride which was a more cushioned version of the GoBionic. failed again; maybe the minimalist movement never really took off in singapore.

 

then by chance i stepped into Sportslink and found three minimalist shoes: the New Balance MR10 (essentially the Minimus Zero with a 4mm drop), the Adidas Adipure Motion and Adipure Gazelle. i tried all 3, and the moment i stepped into the Adipure Gazelle, i fell in love. worn sockless it was incredibly comfortable, like a stretchy watersports booty. footstrike felt just like the Minimus Zero but with a just a very little bit more cushion. interestingly it has a 6mm drop (yes SIX!) but the entire sole was so thin and flexible it made the zero drop virrata feel like a bulky conventional shoe.

 

i've only gone 1 run in them, and i had to cut it short after just 3k coz a fierce blister formed at the bottom of my right foot. to be fair to the shoe, the blister is at the exact same spot where i blister in every single new running shoe i've worn in the past, even before i adapted. but this time maybe because i went sockless, the blister was painful enough that i had to quit.

 

but i'm very excited about this shoe. super comfortable, with seemingly just the right amount of cushioning for me to still feel 'real minimalist'. i'll comment further once i clock more mileage, especially about whether a 6mm drop shoe affects anything.

[ticks]

Ya maybe it's the older ones. Mine kinvara is the 3. lol. Zzz. Anyway when you're talking about heel drop right bro, the lesser the better or the other way round(in view of getting better running technique)?

[mechwira]

Ya maybe it's the older ones. Mine kinvara is the 3. lol. Zzz.

 

ah well. a kinvara 3 for less than half the price for the 4 is still a very good deal. i honestly would have bought the 3 for $69 if i had seen it before i bought the 4.

 

the only difference is the design of the upper. the 4 has a softer more comfy flexifilm upper BUT owners have reported tearing the upper on branches when running on trails. then again the kinvara is not a trail running shoe.

[mechwira]

conventional running shoes typically come with 12-16mm offset. the big cushion at the heel is there precisely to protect the heel from impact for heel striking runners.

 

if you want to do mid/forefoot strike, actually you should use a shoe with 0mm offset. shoes with 4mm offset like the kinavara are generally regarded as transition shoes for runners who first want to change their running form to midfoot strike. they are also good for midfoot strikers who cannot handle the harshness of real minimalist shoes. if you have been wearing conventional shoes all your adult running life and naturally heel strike, it may not be a good idea to immediately go to a 0mm shoe or minimalist shoes. you will overwork the muscles that have so far been used very little in your heel strike running, plus while your running form is not perfect the lack of protection may cause injuries. there are however some minimalist runners who say that its better to immediately go to 0mm minimalist shoes or even run barefoot on grass, feel the pain so that you immediately reset your running style.....

 

the reasons why a shoe with more than 4mm offset is not suitable for mid/forefoot strike are:

 

1) with 12-16mm offset, your feet are already at an elevated angle just by standing flat. so when you try to midfoot strike, there is a good chance you will end up thumping your heel down anyway.

 

2) typically with 12-16mm offset, you end up with thick and rigid soles which dont allow your feet to bend properly to land in the mid or forefoot.

 

3) that 12-16mm offset is due to cushioning deliberately designed to absorb the shock at the heel. this means if you try to mid/forefoot strike, there is no feedback, no pain when you run 'wrongly' and heel strike so its difficult to check yourself if you're running 'properly'.

 

interestingly my adipure gazelle has a 6mm offset but the shoe is designed as a minimalist shoe so overall the sole construction of the sole is so thin and flexible that its completely natural to do mid/forefoot strike and it makes the zero drop virrata feel like a bulky conventional shoe. so the numbers dont tell the full story, but i'd say the adipure gazelle is an exception.

[ticks]

As always mech, thanks for the detailed understanding. Just went for my 9 km run after a weeks break at Bali. Suffice to say the shoe outlasted me. Lol. All I had during the week was a 2.4 on a treadmill.

[mechwira]

i've registered for the 2XU half-marathon. took the basic package without the visor or compression pants. so i want to share my weekly training program which will commence week after next (next week new year holiday week a bit disruptive to start, so i'll just do whatever running i can next week and that start the program proper the week after).

 

Monday evening: Casual 8k or Intervals

 

Tuesday evening: 30mins tempo run

 

Wednesday evening: Casual 8k

 

Thursday evening: 30mins strength training hill climbs

 

Friday evening: Weekly group run with friends

 

Saturday: Rest day

 

Sunday morning: Long run

 

My long run currently stands at 13km. i hit 15km previously but due to the injury i 'reset' my mileage. i now plan to increase my long run by 1km every week until i hit 18km then keep it constant there, and i plan to do at least one 18km on sunday morning at 5am coz thats the half-mara flag off time. at that point also my casual runs i will bring it up to 9k, possibly 10k.

 

anyone else signed up and wanna share training programs and compare notes?

[ticks]

Yup same for me. Half marathon basic package. But I don't have such a structured plan. I'll just do my runs and gym. Now I'm doing 9k weekly runs. Will increase 1 km per week and go on till race day.

[mechwira]

Yup same for me. Half marathon basic package. But I don't have such a structured plan. I'll just do my runs and gym. Now I'm doing 9k weekly runs. Will increase 1 km per week and go on till race day.

 

my suggestion is once you clock 12k and you still keep increasing, then this 'increasing long run' should not be don more than once a week. the rest of the week if you run it should be capped at no higher than say 70% of your current weekly maximum. like i said in my earlier post, you cant continue running frequently and simultaneously increase the distance.

[ulysses_sc]

i've registered for the 2XU half-marathon. took the basic package without the visor or compression pants. so i want to share my weekly training program which will commence week after next (next week new year holiday week a bit disruptive to start, so i'll just do whatever running i can next week and that start the program proper the week after).

 

Monday evening: Casual 8k or Intervals

 

Tuesday evening: 30mins tempo run

 

Wednesday evening: Casual 8k

 

Thursday evening: 30mins strength training hill climbs

 

Friday evening: Weekly group run with friends

 

Saturday: Rest day

 

Sunday morning: Long run

 

My long run currently stands at 13km. i hit 15km previously but due to the injury i 'reset' my mileage. i now plan to increase my long run by 1km every week until i hit 18km then keep it constant there, and i plan to do at least one 18km on sunday morning at 5am coz thats the half-mara flag off time. at that point also my casual runs i will bring it up to 9k, possibly 10k.

 

anyone else signed up and wanna share training programs and compare notes?

 

Just signed up for the basic half marathon. No specific training plan like yours! Will continue with my long run every Wednesday night (15km now), and increase to 20km by mid-Feb. Saturday mornings will do a 10-12km run after my usual bike session. Let's see how it turns out!

[ulysses_sc]

i've registered for the 2XU half-marathon. took the basic package without the visor or compression pants. so i want to share my weekly training program which will commence week after next (next week new year holiday week a bit disruptive to start, so i'll just do whatever running i can next week and that start the program proper the week after).

 

Monday evening: Casual 8k or Intervals

 

Tuesday evening: 30mins tempo run

 

Wednesday evening: Casual 8k

 

Thursday evening: 30mins strength training hill climbs

 

Friday evening: Weekly group run with friends

 

Saturday: Rest day

 

Sunday morning: Long run

 

My long run currently stands at 13km. i hit 15km previously but due to the injury i 'reset' my mileage. i now plan to increase my long run by 1km every week until i hit 18km then keep it constant there, and i plan to do at least one 18km on sunday morning at 5am coz thats the half-mara flag off time. at that point also my casual runs i will bring it up to 9k, possibly 10k.

 

anyone else signed up and wanna share training programs and compare notes?

 

Just signed up for the basic half marathon. No specific training plan like yours! Will continue with my long run every Wednesday night (15km now), and increase to 20km by mid-Feb. Saturday mornings will do a 10-12km run after my usual bike session. Let's see how it turns out!

[Dino Bravo]

I'm using 2 shoes at the moment. both minimalist.

Merrell Barefoot road gloves & New Balance MT00.

And 1 "not exactly a shoe", but a running sandal. "Zero shoes" Huaraches 4mm outsole.

 

HRM i'm using Garmin Forerunner.

 

NB MT00 is more "minimalist" than the merrell road glove.

The merrell road gloves has a slightly more rigid outsole, which I am actually more comfortable with for longer runs.

The more rigid outsole also enables me to run on cross country tracks more comfortably.

 

Common running injury, is self caused, through prolonged running in poor or incorrect form.

By using a minimalist running shoe, and with proper education on running, it should correct your running form and posture.

Because everytime you adopt incorrect running techniques, you will feel uncomfortable, or even pain.

Running correctly in minimalist shoes should feel comfortable, and more efficient.

So if you're not comfortable, something is not done correctly.

 

Completed the recent 21km in the huaraches. Felt some uncomfortable pain because I have adopted poor form from the 18km mark onwards due to tiredness and fatique and laziness.

It was however an awesome run nevertheless.

[ticks]

Hey guys. YouTube recently uploaded a 5 part video on correct running techniques. From the brief vid I watch it seems like a good collection of vids summing up all the important points incorrect running form.

Just type in the relevant key words and it should pop up right on top of the list.

[mechwira]

wow, the NB Minimus Zero is already the most extreme minimalist i'm willing to go, i already think the fivefingers are too extreme for me, and i never thought i'd actually hear about someone running in the huaraches in a half-mara.

[mechwira]

i think in general it is scientifically accepted that mid/forefoot running is more efficient and injury resistant compared to heel striking, even though plenty of elite runners like ultra marathoners and olympiads can still be seen doing heel strikes.

 

but the different mid/forefoot techniques.... i've read up Chi Running and Pose Method. the Pose Method seems to require an instructor to train you and the Chi Running has too much mumbo-jumbo for me to fully understand.

[mechwira]

half of the jokes in the vid below you have to have read "Born to run" to get it, and the other half is funny as long as you've heard/read about barefoot running.

 

 

and btw, the guy in the video is a barefoot runner and founder of Invisible Shoes, which makes Xero Shoes wich are essebtially hauarches or running sandals.

[mechwira]

so today, in my weekly long slow distance towards the upcoming half-mara, i tried for the first time a fuel gel. the gel i used was the same one mentioned earlier by vyrus: the Maxifuel Viper Boost.

 

two weekends ago, in my LSD targeted at 13k, i hit the wall for the first time ever in my running at 11k. i usually can last up to 12k without hitting the wall or bonking, but for reasons i still dont understand, in that LSD i finally felt wat it was like, and at only 11k. so much so that in my final km of the run, i was going nearly twice my usual cruising pace.

 

last weekend, i consumed a banana and half a pack of 'Weiner Carb Gel' (available Guardian and Shop&Save) an hour before running, because i dreaded hitting the wall again. usually i ran on an empty stomache and could last 12k, admittedly with hunger pangs and tailing off my pace after 10k. the banana and carb gel seemed to do the trick: no wall all the way to my targeted 14k, though again tailed off after 10k, which was normal.

 

few days ago, spotted the viper boost at guardian. bought one to try. in today's targeted 15k LSD, consumed at 10k mark (approx 1h). at first tongue contact, tasted like thick lime cordial, then it turned sharp. almost yucky but went down my throat before it started feeling disgusting, and that sharpness did not linger on the tongue. chased it with plain water once the gel pack emptied. no stomach upset experienced.

 

no difference for next 2km (about 15 mins). then strangely past 12k mark, fatigue level felt like i had only been doing 6k, not 12k. also, started forgetting to drink because thirst did not come with usual regularity. post-run, checked my gps record and saw that at 10k and 11k, pace started slowing by 10-15s each km, which was normal. but at 12k to 15k, pace started picking up back to usual cruising speed before 10k mark. i was not faster, but running normally without tailing off like usual.

 

so yes, there is something to this viper boost gel. however, i do not know if it was the carb and electrolytes, or just the caffeine kick (it has 100mg caffeine). ideally i'd rather consume the Viper Active Gel, which has the same content except that the Boost has fibre and that caffeine. but Guardian only sold the Boost. i do pop caffeine pills occasionally in my training, but i prefer them to be separate options rather than a 2-in-1. i'm not certain, but two hours after my run ended i may have experienced a minor post-caffeine crash. i say 'minor' because i'm a chronic coffee drinker at work and i regularly experience 'proper' caffeine crashes in the afternoon, and the one i felt post-run today was not as bad. but if i'm a coffee guzzler and i felt something, then caffeine intolerant runners should perhaps be cautious.

 

in my next LSD in two weeks' time, i'm trying out a gel with no caffeine. the GU energy gel.

 

http://www.bivouac.co.nz/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/g/u/gu_gel-lemonsublime.jpg

 

contains same 100 kCal like Viper Boost/Active, same amount of carbs too. but more salt, and all in a 50g gel unlike the viper in a 70g gel. then i'll decide which to use in the actual 21k. and share findings here.

[ticks]

Wow. That's done write up on fuel gels. Just finished my 12k today. Slightly behind schedule now. Lol..

[vyruz]

so yes, there is something to this viper boost gel.

 

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one buddy! I love the stuff.

 

I took a week off around Xmas due to a cough/sore throat and have been struggling to get back to my old mileage No half-mara distance since then, but I'll get back on track this weekend.

 

Last week I thought "Maybe I should circulate between my Vapor Gloves (minimalist shoe) and my old Nike Free 5.0. Maybe my muscles will hurt less and I can train more". Silly me. 6km into my run with the Nike and I felt all sorts of wrong. Pinky crushing into the side of the shoe, soles felt tacky and odd. Overall felt like my shoes were slowing me down and making me work much harder for the run.

 

At 7km, I had a stroke of 'genius'. Took my shoes off, and did the rest 3km home completely barefoot (shoes in hand). Bad idea. Ended up with blisters the size of 5c coins on both toes and second toes (is that what they're called?).

 

I'm never running without my Vapor Gloves again.

 

Just wanted to share and wish you all happy running. I'm about to get changed and run back from work.

[ulysses_sc]

Anyone works in town and runs around Marina Bay area after work?