modify ur bike with turbo charger? Possible!

[Guest Timberland]

may i noe how much is it to install on a hayabusa?

either turbo or supercharger?

jus a average ranging price.

n i heard tat bike can wheelie even at 100km/hr , 6 gear.

 

i noe notin, jus wnana clear my doubts. pls enlighthen mi

 

thks alot

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgQYChHNv9o

[kaaboon]

I strongly agree to this point. Apart from what Strong Eagle has pointed out, I must also say the following few points. Even if you have a turbocharger installed to your engine. You must also take note that a working turbo charger can be spinning even up to 15 times of your engine crankshaft RPM. In this immense speed, it is no wonder that without proper lubrication, the turbo can catch fire. A few mechanics who used to work under me lost their ricebowl due to negligence on this aspect.

 

Turbocharging and supercharging are both processes asking for the same effect. Better and more optimised scavaging efficiency. Which means a more optimised fresh air introduced into the ingine thus more fuel can be mixed with your force-fed air and give a more powerful combustion. However, one must also take note of the boost pressure of the turbo charger. The impeller which is driven by exhaust rely totally on the exhaust to proper it which in turns propels the turbine connected to the impeller to suck in more air. The mechanical efficiency will only hit optimization upon a certain pressure which means adequate exhaust being expelled to power your impeller to proper the turbine. In other words only upon a certain rpm your engine provides then will your turbo significantly start to operate productively.

At the same time, one must also take note that the turbo charger is operating by means of the exhaust. This means that the turbocharger is working under extreme temperatures. 100DegC during engine idling is nothing. A Red hot turbo charger during extreme operations is common. With such high temperatures, if you need your new found force-fed air to be optimised, the air temperature has to be well controlled. This explains why you need an intercooler. Normal intercoolers are like radiators. Force-fed across the intercooler helps to optimise the temperature for combustion in the combustion chamber.

 

With so much to consider, how do you think one can easily install a working turbocharger and increase the operating costs and risks of the engine?

 

I used to represent a workshop to deal with turbocharger suppliers. Perhaps if you all need official info, do drop by their websites.

 

Search their names under:

KKK turbochargers

Holset

 

P.S. If you want to install turbo charger, try considering RAM AIR. It is also a form of force feeding air. Build a new air route and install an air filter before leading to your throttle body. Then remember to dyno your bike before and after the modifications to see the difference and check whether it's necessary to further modify. At least lesser engineering aspects, risks and costs need to be considered when you make ram air.

 

 

 

Grandmother story.....

I think this is so called General Knowlege.

So what if u used to deal with turbo charges suppliers, have u ever installed one on your vehicle?? Let it be bike or car......

[MS]

Grandmother story.....

I think this is so called General Knowlege.

So what if u used to deal with turbo charges suppliers, have u ever installed one on your vehicle?? Let it be bike or car......

 

Yes I did. Overhauling or installation, you name it.

But as you see I have laid out the engineering aspects to be considered so under normal economical sense I will not install it into my bike or car.

 

But I used to run a workshop. I have cases of fire caused by turbo chargers. I did find out that one of my mechanics didn't realised that the EO supply pipe was loosened out. That was why the EO failed to supply into the turbocharger. I quietly fixed it back and covered for him. Including removing the traces of evidences left over when I left traces on the fire extinguisher powder on the engine compartment.

 

I went after Holset over their spat of turbochargers jammed up in their re-conditioned turbo chargers and nearly causing fire and of course led to weaker power.

 

During inspection, after I shut down the engine, a stop watch is used to time the rotating turbineand impeller assembly. The shorter it is, the likelyhood it is to jam. Of course there is a benchmark stated to follow.

 

So much for talking, I include a picture of one of my routine checks.

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n298/arakyo/DSC01015.jpg

95DegC to 105 DegC at engine idling is common.

200DegC during operation is also common.

 

This is another way to spot for faulty turbochargers. An infra red thermometer. An unusually high temperature during idling could indicate a jammed turbo charger. And when I mean jammed it is not literally jammed and cannot move. It simply means unusual friction is taking place in the turbo chrger assembly. Whether the turbocharger pilot bearing is damaged or EO supply is not enough does not matter. The moment it's operating at higher than usual temperature indicates a potential fire hazard once it's returned to customer. And if there is fire & compensation is not satisfactory, legal cases are very possible

 

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n298/arakyo/engine.jpg

Usually people in the region have to pay for me to conduct training on automotive technology. Perhaps I can share a bit on engine technology.

 

In order to understand turbochargers, one must first understand the fundamentals of engine operation technology. In the top part of the 2nd picture you see the cylinder head arrangement of a 16V 4 cylinder engine. Most of the times, this is a DOHC engine. However in certain cases like the Mitsubishi Lancer, rocker arms can be incorporated to use only SOHC to operate the timing of the valves.

The numbers 1342 is not for people to buy 4D. It is the firing order of the spark plugs. With this firing order and V/V clearance table, you will be able to conduct a V/V clearance check. Of course, if you need to do top overhaul, you will need more than these info.

In the lower part of the 2nd picture, you see the upper part of the engine minus till the con-rod. The table at the side explains the operating condition of the 4 cylinder engine. This table is only valid for 4 cylinder inline engines.

I have drawn this with MS Paint in such a way to be as easily understood by people. Most people in this industry are able to pick it up quickly the basic operating fundamentals of the engine from this diagram. However as technology differs frequently, there will always be opportunities of having to draw a slightly diff diagram.

The turbocharger will be rotating as long as your engine is in operation. But the only time the turbocharger is contributing will be at Cylinder 4 in the picture of the lower part of the diagram. That process is called scavaging. The exchange of fresh air and exhaust.

 

While the piston is turned up by the crankshaft which is connected to the camshaft via a belt, chain or cam gear, the exhaust is quickly sucked out by the rotating impeller. The turbine which is connected to the impeller at the same time sucks in fresh air and go through the intercooler (if any) before ending in the combustion chamber.

 

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n298/arakyo/compressiontest.jpg

This is a compression test undertaken to check 6 cyld inline engine. This test shows a failed cyld1. For your info, water got into this cylinder. It was retested again and depicted as cyld 7 but the same result was obtained. Engine was sent for full overhaul.

 

The combustion chamber is a very tightly sealed by piston ring. The piston ring cuts and need a special tool to remove it. I have attached a picture to show how piston rings are removed. A piston ring opener is required.

This piston ring opener is purchased from my favourite German brand Elora. Costs about $50+

Sizes varies.

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n298/arakyo/DSC00266.jpg

 

 

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n298/arakyo/turbocharger.jpg

I also have drawn a schematic diagram also with MS Paint to explain how does the turbo works. The turbo charger is boxed in yellow. It is to be taken as one unit. The EO supply provides both the impeller and turbine with lubrication.

 

Note:The coolant supply is not going to the turbine though the picture may be deeming it as. It is taking the coolant supply to the intercooler for the force fed air to cool.

 

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n298/arakyo/header1.jpg

Attached above is one of my training diagrams to explain an overview on the general anatomy of engines. I used a (VAG) Audi FSI 2L 16V 4ZYL engine as example. I edited the picture to add the labelling. If it is not clear to you please let me know. Maybe we can meet up.

 

I think I have talked too much. I have since left the workshop and now working in another place dealing with other parts of the vehicle geometry. My HQ is in Germany and we design and fabricate transmissions, powertrains, suspensions and steering. I am from the clutches, suspensions and steering technology dept. If anyone is running a workshop and interested can PM me and meet up.

 

We can always make friends first before we talk about business.

[MS]

Just on a lighter side, I hope no one is offended by my posts. Neither am I offended by any posts. I claimed my credentials in this industry is to raise the awareness of other readers that someone from this industry is raising the alarm on points to take note rather than to rush into anything.

 

I have always advocated learning from the right sources. Apart from conducting training the other primary duty in my current job is technical warranty approval/rejection. And I have seen some of the most silliest modifications people done to cars, trucks, buses and bikes in the world. Although from what I read, IMHO the current SBF hands on side are now more well guarded by people who know their stuffs. But still no one can actually say they know everything. Even for me, I welcome people to question and we sharpen each other.

 

Automotive engineering is not only my rice bowl. It is my passion. From bikes to trucks, bumper to bumper. Hence it will be my pleasure to be alerted of mistakes that I unknowingly made. I always feel that it is always million times better to be corrected by a friend than a paying customer.

[kaaboon]

Just on a lighter side, I hope no one is offended by my posts. Neither am I offended by any posts. I claimed my credentials in this industry is to raise the awareness of other readers that someone from this industry is raising the alarm on points to take note rather than to rush into anything.

 

I have always advocated learning from the right sources. Apart from conducting training the other primary duty in my current job is technical warranty approval/rejection. And I have seen some of the most silliest modifications people done to cars, trucks, buses and bikes in the world. Although from what I read, IMHO the current SBF hands on side are now more well guarded by people who know their stuffs. But still no one can actually say they know everything. Even for me, I welcome people to question and we sharpen each other.

 

Automotive engineering is not only my rice bowl. It is my passion. From bikes to trucks, bumper to bumper. Hence it will be my pleasure to be alerted of mistakes that I unknowingly made. I always feel that it is always million times better to be corrected by a friend than a paying customer.

 

:thumb: :thumb:

[cool_bikers]

Kudos to u MS, u r d experts here. Hope cld learn more frm u regarding proper engine modification, it really fascinates me on hw all dis stuff works.

[xiaofire]

Just on a lighter side, I hope no one is offended by my posts. Neither am I offended by any posts. I claimed my credentials in this industry is to raise the awareness of other readers that someone from this industry is raising the alarm on points to take note rather than to rush into anything.

 

I have always advocated learning from the right sources. Apart from conducting training the other primary duty in my current job is technical warranty approval/rejection. And I have seen some of the most silliest modifications people done to cars, trucks, buses and bikes in the world. Although from what I read, IMHO the current SBF hands on side are now more well guarded by people who know their stuffs. But still no one can actually say they know everything. Even for me, I welcome people to question and we sharpen each other.

 

Automotive engineering is not only my rice bowl. It is my passion. From bikes to trucks, bumper to bumper. Hence it will be my pleasure to be alerted of mistakes that I unknowingly made. I always feel that it is always million times better to be corrected by a friend than a paying customer.

 

Ok thx fren, den what about blow off valve?? I heard my fren toking about installing blow off valve on a CBR1000, is it true?? can it b done?? and somemore it a mugen modded bike. cos he juz came back frm HK he said the bike is modded by mugen wif mugen pipe summore.

[MS]

Ok thx fren, den what about blow off valve?? I heard my fren toking about installing blow off valve on a CBR1000, is it true?? can it b done?? and somemore it a mugen modded bike. cos he juz came back frm HK he said the bike is modded by mugen wif mugen pipe summore.

 

Blow off valve also known as waste gate or the Turbocharger Dump Valve.

 

This is not a performance enhancement item. Rather it is a safety gadget installed for the turbocharger to relieve itself of excessive pressure. though some people capitalize commercially on the hissing sound it generates during operation.

 

*Take note some in the industry calls the turbine as the compressor and the impellor as the turbine.

 

The blow off valve is merely a valve that allows the exhaust generated to detour from the impeller blades. When the boost pressure is too high, the turbine will spin too fast. Don't forget a normal turbo charger operating in normal condition can operate at 15 times your engine crankshaft rotation speeds (your tachometer RPM). The blow off valve helps to relieve some of the boost pressure by letting some of the exhaust bypass the impeller. So it can slow down the speed of the turbine connected to it.

 

In short it works as a protection against turbo and engine wear, stabilizer for your operating boost pressure.

 

when your turbine is not rotating fast enough, it means there is a 'lag' in the turbo. So some people say the turbo only kicks in at certain rpm. This is because there is not enough boost pressure to cause the turbine to contribute efficiently to suck in new air.

 

I have drawn up a schematic diagram on where is the wastegate.

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n298/arakyo/wastegate.jpg

 

Every modification can be possible so long someone authorized is willing to take the responsibilities of compensation in case failures.

 

But consult Mugen first if you are keen to incorporate a turbocharger into your engine. Get the correct part number from them. In my experience, many people who have failed in their bikes and cars and buses etc is due to wrong part number supplied.

[DaN zI]

if im not wrong i see b4 vtec2 or 3 installed blow off value cos of the sound i heard when he sped off.is it possiblE?ard how much to install 1?

[MS]

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n298/arakyo/wastegate-1.jpg

 

I got this picture from my colleague's outdated copy of the BOSCH Automotive Handbook for engineers

 

It illustrates how a waste gate works.

 

You can also buy this book. Very useful. My colleague bought this for 50Pounds when he did his masters in Leeds. Very useful book. You can find this also in the reference section in Woodlands regional library. But it's somewhat outdated.

[Guest Twat]

if im not wrong i see b4 vtec2 or 3 installed blow off value cos of the sound i heard when he sped off.is it possiblE?ard how much to install 1?

 

So e bike has a turbocharger? If not, den no. A blow-off valve can only be installed whn dere's a turbo-charger, its function is to release pressure built up after releasing the throttle. Most tc vehicles nowadays employ e use of CBV, compressor bypass valve. Instead of totally releasing e pressure, its spooled-up pressure is redirected for intake to minimise turbo lag.

[DaN zI]

So e bike has a turbocharger? If not, den no. A blow-off valve can only be installed whn dere's a turbo-charger, its function is to release pressure built up after releasing the throttle. Most tc vehicles nowadays employ e use of CBV, compressor bypass valve. Instead of totally releasing e pressure, its spooled-up pressure is redirected for intake to minimise turbo lag.

 

oh.. im not sure cos its a s4 . i like the sound sia haha.too bad

anyway alot of ESI TCed and install the BOV .

[xiaofire]

Blow off valve also known as waste gate or the Turbocharger Dump Valve.

 

This is not a performance enhancement item. Rather it is a safety gadget installed for the turbocharger to relieve itself of excessive pressure. though some people capitalize commercially on the hissing sound it generates during operation.

 

*Take note some in the industry calls the turbine as the compressor and the impellor as the turbine.

 

The blow off valve is merely a valve that allows the exhaust generated to detour from the impeller blades. When the boost pressure is too high, the turbine will spin too fast. Don't forget a normal turbo charger operating in normal condition can operate at 15 times your engine crankshaft rotation speeds (your tachometer RPM). The blow off valve helps to relieve some of the boost pressure by letting some of the exhaust bypass the impeller. So it can slow down the speed of the turbine connected to it.

 

In short it works as a protection against turbo and engine wear, stabilizer for your operating boost pressure.

 

when your turbine is not rotating fast enough, it means there is a 'lag' in the turbo. So some people say the turbo only kicks in at certain rpm. This is because there is not enough boost pressure to cause the turbine to contribute efficiently to suck in new air.

 

I have drawn up a schematic diagram on where is the wastegate.

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n298/arakyo/wastegate.jpg

 

Every modification can be possible so long someone authorized is willing to take the responsibilities of compensation in case failures.

 

But consult Mugen first if you are keen to incorporate a turbocharger into your engine. Get the correct part number from them. In my experience, many people who have failed in their bikes and cars and buses etc is due to wrong part number supplied.

 

Ok really thx a million bro.. thx!!!

[Guest takashigin]

Blow off valve also known as waste gate or the Turbocharger Dump Valve.

 

This is not a performance enhancement item. Rather it is a safety gadget installed for the turbocharger to relieve itself of excessive pressure. though some people capitalize commercially on the hissing sound it generates during operation.

 

*Take note some in the industry calls the turbine as the compressor and the impellor as the turbine.

 

The blow off valve is merely a valve that allows the exhaust generated to detour from the impeller blades. When the boost pressure is too high, the turbine will spin too fast. Don't forget a normal turbo charger operating in normal condition can operate at 15 times your engine crankshaft rotation speeds (your tachometer RPM). The blow off valve helps to relieve some of the boost pressure by letting some of the exhaust bypass the impeller. So it can slow down the speed of the turbine connected to it.

 

In short it works as a protection against turbo and engine wear, stabilizer for your operating boost pressure.

 

when your turbine is not rotating fast enough, it means there is a 'lag' in the turbo. So some people say the turbo only kicks in at certain rpm. This is because there is not enough boost pressure to cause the turbine to contribute efficiently to suck in new air.

 

I have drawn up a schematic diagram on where is the wastegate.

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n298/arakyo/wastegate.jpg

 

Every modification can be possible so long someone authorized is willing to take the responsibilities of compensation in case failures.

 

But consult Mugen first if you are keen to incorporate a turbocharger into your engine. Get the correct part number from them. In my experience, many people who have failed in their bikes and cars and buses etc is due to wrong part number supplied.

 

MR MS (Professor) . Sorry and not to offend u. Blow off valve or BOV is meant to release excess boost pressure along intake pipe during release throttle. it is not only producing Bizz sound as ppl like its sound but also help to protect inlet duct piping especially intercooler which is the most easy component to be leaked out. it is installed after intercooler and before throttle portion along intake system while turbo wasteget is locateted parallel pipe with exhaust manifold or intergrated in turbocharger. for wastegate theory i dun need to elaborate in detail as u have done a good job theorize out as previous post. Good job for everything except the BOV.

[MS]

MR MS (Professor) . Sorry and not to offend u. Blow off valve or BOV is meant to release excess boost pressure along intake pipe during release throttle. it is not only producing Bizz sound as ppl like its sound but also help to protect inlet duct piping especially intercooler which is the most easy component to be leaked out. it is installed after intercooler and before throttle portion along intake system while turbo wasteget is locateted parallel pipe with exhaust manifold or intergrated in turbocharger. for wastegate theory i dun need to elaborate in detail as u have done a good job theorize out as previous post. Good job for everything except the BOV.

 

haha... thanks I am flattered. But I have no Phd. So I dun qualify as a prof.

 

What you just said is quite in contrast to what is published in the Bosch Automotive handbook. Or perhaps your defination of the blow off valve is different from mine.

 

Because I know in this industry there are many types of address for the components. Even for the turbocharger assembly, the impeller+turbine assembly can be called as turbine+compressor assembly. I am not surprised that the blow off valve can be named as another component instead.

 

If you don't mind, can you point out with a schematic diagram on the operation principles of the Blow off valve? So that the rest can also learn things from a multi-angled perception?

[MS]

Just seen the real thing from my ex colleague. The blow off valve that takashijin has just mentioned is known as the turbo pressure diverter instead to some. There's a difference in culture towards the address of components. The blow off valve is more towards a general term used to describe the component for the general public. But I am really surprised that blow off valve has such another meaning. And it's my mistake to misinterprete them. Credit should be given to takashijin for your contributions. Like I said we do sharpen each other. And today I learn something new from fortunately a 'non-paying customer'.

 

http://www.holset.co.uk/files/2_3_1-how%20a%20turbocharger%20works.php

The above links to the Holset Turbocharger website explaining on how to turbochargers work.

 

 

http://www.holset.co.uk/files/2_5_1_2-wastegate.php

I tried to search using the term blow off valve but was led to wastegate instead.

 

 

Maybe for interested parties, you may want to read up and watch the animations attached to this website for warrantable information.

 

And if you want to turbocharge your engine, you gotta find these guys who are able to do it at the same time be able to shoulder the warranties & legal responsibilities in case of failures.