Microsoft licensing....

[WildCard]

I need some expert opinions / views on this:

 

Let's say I have an XP Pro PC in office. I wish to set it up so that multiple users can Remote Desktop into it concurrently (multi-session). For the purpose of accessing an in-house application. I know XP Pro disables this unlike Windows 2003.

Let's say I purchased a software that allows this (similar to but not Citrix) where multiple users can RDP into the XP Pro PC and have their own session.

 

The question is, do I need seperate licenses for each user / remote device?

If each remote user / device is connecting using a validly-licensed XP machine, does each user / device still require a special license to remote to that XP Pro PC?

 

I have checked online and the answers are mixed due to the ambigious way EULA can be interpreted.

 

Hope respondents have detailed understanding of EULA or have dealth with this issue before can assist me.

 

Thanks...

[edition]

i tink u could try this on ur xp computer. my experience on xp remote desktop is that once a user remote connect to that computer, the computer will log off to log in page. So u can try to add a few user a/c on the xp computer. And then 2 another 2 xp computer to connect to it.

 

For window 2003, i experience that u will need a external connector if u wan multiple user to connect to the server. external connector has no limit on the license.

 

actually for licensing, you could contact Microsoft directly. This what i did to get my information when i implement an application service provider.

[WildCard]

i tink u could try this on ur xp computer. my experience on xp remote desktop is that once a user remote connect to that computer, the computer will log off to log in page. So u can try to add a few user a/c on the xp computer. And then 2 another 2 xp computer to connect to it.

 

For window 2003, i experience that u will need a external connector if u wan multiple user to connect to the server. external connector has no limit on the license.

 

actually for licensing, you could contact Microsoft directly. This what i did to get my information when i implement an application service provider.

 

There's a way to hack a DLL file onboard the server Windows XP to allow more than 1 concurrent session.

 

I'm more concerned about the licensing issues.

[redbeacon]

While I (truthfully) may have to study the EULA carefully as well, I do know a few things:

 

Basics:

 

XP, Vista Business = These OS'es have Terminal Services (aka Remote Desktop Sessions) that are designed to only allow 1 remote connection.

Well, of course, unless you hack the Windows XP files just like you've described.

 

All Server editions = Multiple connections allowed. Administrators are assumed to be EULA-abiding to limit the number of users that are allowed to connect. Server 2003, 2008 has tools to automatically limit connections based on CALs purchased as well.

 

Let's say I purchased a software that allows this (similar to but not Citrix) where multiple users can RDP into the XP Pro PC and have their own session.

 

Looking at the perspective of interactive access (Microsoft lingo: physically seated in front of the computer), I don't think XP was designed to allow any sort of concurrent multi-user usage. Same for remote connections.

 

By right, Microsoft is supposed to stop these products from being distributed because it breaks how XP is supposed to behave, much like the abovementioned hack that you've described; the Windows Server editions are supposed to handle these kinds of magic. If memory serves me right, the EULA states that one copy of XP Pro -- as long as it's not volume licensed -- can be installed on one computer and one notebook.

FYI, haven't tried doing the latter before, doubt it works.

 

What's that software in question by the way. I'm curious to know

 

If you're interested in Terminal Services seat/server licensing for the Windows Server editions, this may help:

http://dev.remotenetworktechnology.com/ts/win2ktslicense.htm

 

Note: If you do switch to the RDP way to offer people access to stuff and apps, be prepared to purchase additional hardware to beef up your infrastructure system(s).

[WildCard]

While I (truthfully) may have to study the EULA carefully as well, I do know a few things:

 

Basics:

 

XP, Vista Business = These OS'es have Terminal Services (aka Remote Desktop Sessions) that are designed to only allow 1 remote connection.

Well, of course, unless you hack the Windows XP files just like you've described.

 

All Server editions = Multiple connections allowed. Administrators are assumed to be EULA-abiding to limit the number of users that are allowed to connect. Server 2003, 2008 has tools to automatically limit connections based on CALs purchased as well.

 

Let's say I purchased a software that allows this (similar to but not Citrix) where multiple users can RDP into the XP Pro PC and have their own session.

 

Looking at the perspective of interactive access (Microsoft lingo: physically seated in front of the computer), I don't think XP was designed to allow any sort of concurrent multi-user usage. Same for remote connections.

 

By right, Microsoft is supposed to stop these products from being distributed because it breaks how XP is supposed to behave, much like the abovementioned hack that you've described; the Windows Server editions are supposed to handle these kinds of magic. If memory serves me right, the EULA states that one copy of XP Pro -- as long as it's not volume licensed -- can be installed on one computer and one notebook.

FYI, haven't tried doing the latter before, doubt it works.

 

What's that software in question by the way. I'm curious to know

 

If you're interested in Terminal Services seat/server licensing for the Windows Server editions, this may help:

http://dev.remotenetworktechnology.com/ts/win2ktslicense.htm

 

Note: If you do switch to the RDP way to offer people access to stuff and apps, be prepared to purchase additional hardware to beef up your infrastructure system(s).

 

 

Ok.

EULA first.

 

Remote Desktop/Remote Assistance/NetMeeting. The

SOFTWARE contains Remote Desktop, Remote Assistance,

and NetMeeting technologies that enable the SOFTWARE

or applications installed on the COMPUTER (sometimes

referred to as a host device) to be accessed remotely

from other Devices. You may use the SOFTWARE's

Remote Desktop feature (or other software which

provides similar functionality for a similar purpose)

to access a COMPUTER Session from any Device provided

you acquire a separate SOFTWARE license for that

Device. As an exception to this rule, the person

who is the single primary user of the COMPUTER

may access a Computer Session from any Device without

acquiring an additional SOFTWARE license for that

Device. When you are using Remote Assistance or

NetMeeting (or other software which provides similar

functionality for a similar purpose) you may share

a Session with other users without any limit on

the number of Device connections and without acquiring

additional licenses for the SOFTWARE. For Microsoft

and non-Microsoft applications, you should consult

the license agreement accompanying the applicable

software or contact the applicable licensor to

determine whether use of the software with Remote

Desktop, Remote Assistance, or NetMeeting is permitted

without an additional license. Except as otherwise

permitted by the NetMeeting and Remote Assistance

features described above, a license for the SOFTWARE

may not be shared or used concurrently on different

computers, such as a workstation, terminal or other

device.

 

The way I read this, its saying that, as long as the remote devices (ie. laptops or desktops) have a valid XP Pro licence, its allowed to access the XP Pro machine serving as the 'server'. Any other OS that the remote devices are using will require an equivelant XP Pro licence or perhaps the XP Pro equivalent of a CAL.

 

There is a hack to allow more than 1 concurrent session on a single XP machine, though I will not elaborate on that here.

 

The software I'm looking at is here:

http://www.xpunlimited.com

 

Accordingly, the developers used the same interpretation to explain that if a software can bypass and allow a safe multi-session system, and, that if the clients are all valid XP-Pro licenced machines, no further sub-licensing is required (as opposed to Win2003's famous CALs).

 

I'm contacting the local reseller for a full clarification on this.

 

 

Hardware-wise, the users are going to be running just one office in-house application. Right now, the setup I'm looking at is having users connect to a server and running the application direct from the server.

I'm suggesting a multi-session XP Pro workstation (those medium-end minitower PCs with better specs) to be the PC that the users can remote-in to run their app. If it can be controlled that this app is the only thing they can run, all the better.

 

Remote control apps like pcAnywhere or LogMeIn will not work as those are single sessions.

[redbeacon]

Ok.

EULA first.

 

Section 1.4: Remote Desktop/Remote Assistance/NetMeeting.

 

The SOFTWARE contains Remote Desktop, Remote Assistance, and NetMeeting technologies that enable the SOFTWARE or applications installed on the COMPUTER (sometimes referred to as a host device) to be accessed remotely from other Devices. You may use the SOFTWARE's Remote Desktop feature (or other software which provides similar functionality for a similar purpose) to access a COMPUTER Session from any Device provided you acquire a separate SOFTWARE license for that Device. As an exception to this rule, the person who is the single primary user of the COMPUTER may access a Computer Session from any Device without acquiring an additional SOFTWARE license for that Device. When you are using Remote Assistance or NetMeeting (or other software which provides similar functionality for a similar purpose) you may share a Session with other users without any limit on the number of Device connections and without acquiring additional licenses for the SOFTWARE. For Microsoft and non-Microsoft applications, you should consult the license agreement accompanying the applicable software or contact the applicable licensor to determine whether use of the software with Remote Desktop, Remote Assistance, or NetMeeting is permitted without an additional license. Except as otherwise permitted by the NetMeeting and Remote Assistance features described above, a license for the SOFTWARE may not be shared or used concurrently on different computers, such as a workstation, terminal or other device.

 

The way I read this, its saying that, as long as the remote devices (ie. laptops or desktops) have a valid XP Pro licence, its allowed to access the XP Pro machine serving as the 'server'. Any other OS that the remote devices are using will require an equivelant XP Pro licence or perhaps the XP Pro equivalent of a CAL.

 

There is a hack to allow more than 1 concurrent session on a single XP machine, though I will not elaborate on that here.

 

The software I'm looking at is here:

http://www.xpunlimited.com

 

Accordingly, the developers used the same interpretation to explain that if a software can bypass and allow a safe multi-session system, and, that if the clients are all valid XP-Pro licenced machines, no further sub-licensing is required (as opposed to Win2003's famous CALs).

 

I'm contacting the local reseller for a full clarification on this.

 

Hardware-wise, the users are going to be running just one office in-house application. Right now, the setup I'm looking at is having users connect to a server and running the application direct from the server.

I'm suggesting a multi-session XP Pro workstation (those medium-end minitower PCs with better specs) to be the PC that the users can remote-in to run their app. If it can be controlled that this app is the only thing they can run, all the better.

 

Remote control apps like pcAnywhere or LogMeIn will not work as those are single sessions.

 

Everytime I try to read between the lines of EULAs, I spot one strand of gray hair

Anyhoo...

 

Before I begin, I feel that it's important to include Section 1.5 of the XP Professional non-OEM EULA:

 

Section 1.5 Storage/Network Use.

 

You may also store or install a copy of the

Software on a storage device, such as a network server, used only to install or run the

Software on your other Workstation Computers over an internal network; however, you

must acquire and dedicate an additional license for each separate Workstation

Computer on or from which the Software is installed, used, accessed, displayed or run.

Except as otherwise permitted by the NetMeeting and Remote Assistance features

described above,

a license for the Software may not be shared or used concurrently on different

Workstation Computers

.

 

Now, let's tackle the questions one by one:

 

You asked whether if each remote user / device is connecting using a validly-licensed XP machine, does each user / device still require a special license to remote to that XP Pro PC?

Answer is yes. This is because the clause here:

 

(2) As an exception to this rule, the person who is the single primary user of the COMPUTER may access a Computer Session from any Device without acquiring an additional SOFTWARE license for that Device.

 

...states "single primary user", and when you add that to the the ending clauses of Sections 1.4 and 1.5, it reinforces the requirement for each user connected to it to have a license:

 

Except as otherwise permitted by the NetMeeting and Remote Assistance features

described above,

a license for the Software may not be shared or used concurrently on different Workstation Computers

.

 

In this section, "Software" refers to Windows XP Pro on your machine (pseudo-Server) that you're sharing out the app from, and "different Workstation Computers" are your clients that are connecting to that.

 

Theroetically however, XP Pro was not designed to allow concurrent sessions anyways -- that is, when XP Pro is installed in your pseudo-Server, it does not have the ability to serve and display multiple Desktop environments to more than 1 users connected to it. (unless, like you've said, hack it)

 

Hardware-wise, the users are going to be running just one office in-house application. Right now, the setup I'm looking at is having users connect to a server and running the application direct from the server.

 

I'm afraid purchasing a Server OS and Client Access Licenses is the only way to go, if you want this app sharing ability.

 

I'm suggesting a multi-session XP Pro workstation (those medium-end minitower PCs with better specs) to be the PC that the users can remote-in to run their app.

 

If it can be controlled that this app is the only thing they can run, all the better.

 

Server + Group Policy.

If you're using Windows Server 2008, then there's cool stuff such as Virtualisation.

 

Remote control apps like pcAnywhere or LogMeIn will not work as those are single sessions.

 

Let's just say Admins are silly enough to implement these as part of their IT infrastructure.

Except when you have multi-national VIPs who may ever need urgent assistance away from your site.

[WildCard]

Lol.

Thanks anyway.

 

The vendor for the software got back to me.

They've already clarified with Microsoft Singapore. No need any more 'client' licences as long as the clients are using Windows XP Pro or Vista business at minimum.

 

So guess my interpretation of the EULA was ok....

[WildCard]

Server + Group Policy.

If you're using Windows Server 2008, then there's cool stuff such as Virtualisation.

 

We have considered those. But let's just say we would like to keep things simple.

Windows 2008 + the individual CALs + plus the whole hassle & costs value for money. Plus there is a chance the application we wish to run may not be compatible with Windows Server 2008.

 

Let's just say Admins are silly enough to implement these as part of their IT infrastructure.

Except when you have multi-national VIPs who may ever need urgent assistance away from your site.

 

I must add that these are very useful tools that are a major help in many situations that would be cumbersome or impractical by other means. Especially if they are used properly.

I would reserve the use of the word 'silly'.

There are situations where RDP is not the solution, where a direct session remote control is needed.

[redbeacon]

Lol.

Thanks anyway.

 

The vendor for the software got back to me.

They've already clarified with Microsoft Singapore. No need any more 'client' licences as long as the clients are using Windows XP Pro or Vista business at minimum.

 

So guess my interpretation of the EULA was ok....

 

Oh geez...

I wanna ask for per-hour-compensation for the productivity loss due to studying that damn EULA