Money matters

[SW76]

Hullo Brudders.

 

Just wondering is there a "magical formula" for selling our bikes to other buyers or dealers?

Has been puzzling..

E.g.

Seller puts up notice selling bike full cash at $3.5k

Assuming his COI left $2k balance, he takes the buyer's $3.5k and uses $2k to pay his dealer and hence he pockets $1.5k as his profit. If the seller is greedy and his COI left only $1k, then he would have pocketed $2.5k as profit!! Is this "standard practice"? If so, what is the range of profit sellers normally target for?

I am oso assuming bikes have no OMV, unlike cars.

If we want to sell back to dealer, normally we kana "ka-toh" one rite?

 

Thx for the advice.

[xb84]

that the hell is he talking abt?!

[SW76]

Brudder onefour02, pls try mind ur language - u strike me off as an uncouth brat.

If u dun understand, just ask properly.

What is it you dun understand - tot i am pretty clear in my writing oredi??

[RadBaron]

Apparently you dont understand how installment works.

 

Just because a owner pays off his installment earlier dosent mean he profits on the bike. Its just WHEN the money leaves his pocket to pay the shop. Earlier or later, dosent make a difference.

 

Where is the element of profit then? Unless of course he's selling way above market price. Even then, buyers still have the choice of whether to buy the bike. No one's sticking a knife at their throat.

[MaTrIx87]

Originally posted by SW76@Dec 23 2006, 01:20 PM

Hullo Brudders.

 

Just wondering is there a "magical formula" for selling our bikes to other buyers or dealers?

Has been puzzling..

E.g.

Seller puts up notice selling bike full cash at $3.5k

Assuming his COI left $2k balance, he takes the buyer's $3.5k and uses $2k to pay his dealer and hence he pockets $1.5k as his profit. If the seller is greedy and his COI left only $1k, then he would have pocketed $2.5k as profit!! Is this "standard practice"? If so, what is the range of profit sellers normally target for?

I am oso assuming bikes have no OMV, unlike cars.

If we want to sell back to dealer, normally we kana "ka-toh" one rite?

 

Thx for the advice.

bro the key here to hw much a person actually "profits" into his pocket is in the downpayment, so to make it simple theres actually no way of "profitting" as the so called "profit" is to recoup for ur downpayment the more u downpay the more goes into ur pocket at the end of the dae. hope u understand wad i mean

[Guest NPNT]

when buying a bike, see whether it is within market price. if its overpriced, dont buy it.

 

whether he makes $10K or $1K profit, doesnt matter.

 

anyway, usually no one makes profit by selling cars or bikes. it would oredi have depreciated.

[Murinus]

so if i buy a bike at $10k and pay in full... then decide to sell it off at $9k one year later then i would be making a $9k profit?

[plasticblackspecs]

you mean $1k loss? $10k - $9 k = $1k

[Murinus]

but according to SW76's calculations i would have made a $9k profit!

[plasticblackspecs]

Originally posted by SW76@Dec 23 2006, 01:20 PM

Hullo Brudders.

 

Just wondering is there a "magical formula" for selling our bikes to other buyers or dealers?

Has been puzzling..

E.g.

Seller puts up notice selling bike full cash at $3.5k

Assuming his COI left $2k balance, he takes the buyer's $3.5k and uses $2k to pay his dealer and hence he pockets $1.5k as his profit. If the seller is greedy and his COI left only $1k, then he would have pocketed $2.5k as profit!! Is this "standard practice"? If so, what is the range of profit sellers normally target for?

I am oso assuming bikes have no OMV, unlike cars.

If we want to sell back to dealer, normally we kana "ka-toh" one rite?

 

Thx for the advice.

Maybe his downpayment is $1.5k? Or maybe he did major serving and parts replacements etc? Whether or not if really got COI or not and so one I guess it'll be up to the person's ethics. But you should also view the bike and check it out properly see if it's worth the say $3.5k you're paying.

[hachi]

I guess his "profit" is the cold hard cash from the bike sale when paying off the installments....

There is no formula, just sell your bike at market value that is usually cheaper than shop depending on classes. If your installments is more than MV than I would suggest you keep it till your installments breakeven the MV of your bike...

[plasticblackspecs]

Originally posted by Murinus@Dec 23 2006, 07:23 PM

but according to SW76's calculations i would have made a $9k profit!

According the SW76, from what I read, correct me if I'm wrong, is he's saying if the seller is not truthful about the COI and tells the buyer he has $2k COI instead of the actual $1k COI.

[hachi]

IF you buy your bike at MV or the price you think is worth it, who really care how much COI the seller have $1 or $100000???You just pay the amount both parties agree upon then end of story....

[Guest NPNT]

Originally posted by plasticblackspecs@Dec 23 2006, 07:27 PM

According the SW76, from what I read, correct me if I'm wrong, is he's saying if the seller is not truthful about the COI and tells the buyer he has $2k COI instead of the actual $1k COI.

cant u tell Murinus is trying to be sarcastic?

[SW76]

Thx brudders for so much useful info - appreciate it leh.

Sori arh, old man here brain is the "PentiumII" processor, a bit slow.

 

Maybe i use scenarios as illustrations:

 

Scenario 1:

X trying to sell Phantom with plate "FR" and from estimation, "FR" plate means the bike is abt 6 yrs or so old. Such bikes would have been paid off fully i.e. no more COI. Based from the "Buy/Sell" thread i observed, i see sellers still able to try sell at 1K or so.

 

My rational: Assuming 6 yrs ago, he bought this bike at 6k. End of 6 yrs, he requested to sell at 1k. Negating the financial aspects such as present/future value of money, and bike depreciation (since it is not significant like cars), isn't 1k in some ways a profit? Seller biked for 6 yrs, made full use of it, still in good condition, sells off at 1k, hence at the end of the day he still pockets in 1k. If his bike really in good condition, he can even raise the selling price to maybe 1.5k, which equates to higher profit.

 

Scenario 2:

Y trying to sell X9 with plate "FY" and from estimation again, "FY" plate would mean its about 2 years or so old. In reality, seller's still need to COI of maybe $200/mth for 10 more mths. This equates to $200 * 10 = $2000. If seller sells below $2k, of coz he lose out. Therefore, he has to sell much higher then $2k - how much higher would then means how much he wants to pocket e.g. he sells at 3k, uses 2k from the 3k to pay back motordiam, balance is 3k-2k = 1k. Isn't this 1k a kind of profit? If seller is greedy, he asks for 3.5k. 3.5k - 2k = 1.5k and isn't this a higher profit then?

 

I used to drive a old car with yearly depreciation of 3.5k - 10 years up, i scrap it, recover back OMV of about 8-9k. But for bikes, (correct me if i wrong), what OMV is there for bikes? Unless your bike is of high value, maybe Gold Wing or Harley, then there's some residue value. If your bike is wave (no offense to wave brudders), u think there's still value after few yrs?

 

Brudder M@+r!X analogy is most clear to me: what ur "profit" would be is to recoup ur downpayment. Let's say bike COI left 2k, and seller d/p $500, so the minimum he has to sell away has to be 2.5k right?

 

Thanks.

[miss]

There is no profit in selling bikes. Just how much or little was your loss...

 

The seller sells the bike at the prevailing price for that particular model.

 

So example, a TA150 in your scenario 1.

 

The average market price is about 1k, plus minus a few hundred dollars depending on bike condition, COE etc etc. So technically, since he spent 6k on the bike years ago, he would have made a loss of about 6k-1k(selling price)=5k. If he doesn't wanna lose out so much, he can choose to sell it of at 1.5k, but good luck to him, that price plus a bit top up, can buy ta200 already.

 

Likewise for scenario 2. Seller sells at prevailing mkt price.

 

Example, You can't expect the guy to sell his bike for COI 2mths X $300 only right? Of cos he has to recoup the balance in cash according to the current mkt price for the model. IF he asks for too much in cash, then it's entirely up to the buyer whether or not to buy an expensive bike.

 

The only profit one makes in bike selling if he got the bike for free (or at dirt cheap prices) and selling it away after use.

 

And also.... it's is the buyer's responsibility to check out current prices. Too expensive? Simple, don't buy.

[plasticblackspecs]

Hmmm...now I also blur. LOL!

 

I think maybe it's easier if you not look at how much profit the seller is making or rather how much you think the bike is worth and how much you willing to pay. Can't be say the bike worth $500 but the seller quotes $2k and you're willing to pay say after negotiation, $1.5k rite? From what I see, I think you know the market value of certain bikes and their plates and also if you're not sure, can always look around classifieds or market place or shops or ask around to find our the market value.

 

Also, if according to

 

Assuming 6 yrs ago, he bought this bike at 6k. End of 6 yrs, he requested to sell at 1k. .....isn't 1k in some ways a profit? Seller biked for 6 yrs, made full use of it, still in good condition, sells off at 1k, hence at the end of the day he still pockets in 1k. ....

 

you won't be expecting the seller to just give the bike away free right? Be it $500 or $1l or even $20, still will have some kinda "profit" what

 

Just my 2 cents

[SW76]

Haha, i think i know what's my "problem" now.

 

My own perspective:

Bike on hire purchase e.g. 2 yrs.

After finish hp, no more coi, bike is mine totally.

Whatever amount i sell after that is a kind of profit to me (Why - because if i keep my bike after hp finish, i don't have to pay anyone anymore except the essential maintainence and such, and also i save on cabs and buses. Hence if you think along this line, bike now then is a asset, not a liability)

 

But my heartfelt thanks to all the brudders here for your valuable contributions - has been very insightful.

 

Actually, i am thinking of either (1) keeping bike and get OPC (to work bike, outings with frens and family car) (2) sell bike and get higher class bike.

That's why i want to find out more about the buying/selling process. If sell too low, i might as well keep it - if too high, no one wants to buy. So i trying to strike a balance to be fair to both parties lor.

 

Thanks once again.

[stsoh]

frankly, if u talk in terms of asset.

asset for a bike life span should be 10 years, just like cars or any vehicles in sillypore.

said u paid $6k+interest in 2 years.

 

u ride the bike for 4 years n decide to sell.

value for your bike is 10-4=6 yrs left.

 

calculation:

S$6k*0.6=S$3.6k

 

if u sell at S$4k, means your profit is $400 (if u can sell it).

if u sell at S$3.6k, means no loss.

if u sell at S$3k, means your loss is $600.

if u sell at S$2.5k, means your loss is $1100.

 

get the logic!!

where is your profit??

 

after 10 years, sell it for S$800 then this will be your profit.

[SW76]

Hi Brudder stsoh

 

Personally, bike life span to me is 3-4 years max – Car’s life span then is 10 years to me. Bikes to me is never meant to ridden for so long – if you noticed, bike’s mileage meter consists of 5 digits, after 99,999km, it goes back to 00,000 and completes one round. Car’s one consists of 6 digits, after 99,999km, it still can go to 100,000km. That’s why Bikes typical warranty is 10,000km/1 year whichever comes first, while cars one is 100,000km/3years whichever comes first.

 

If so, as I mentioned previously, so long as during these 3 years I feel that I have fully utilized my bike, that $6000 payment for the bike more then justifies the costs in terms of replacing public transport costs and for own convenience.

 

After 3 years when I sell (when I don’t have to pay back dealer any more COI, and when I can actually keep it further w/o paying any more except for essential maintenance), the money coming in to me is a “profit” (although it’s actually paper loss as some of you brudders calculated).

 

Maybe I have termed the word profit wrongly, which leads to some misunderstanding. I apologize for that. Ultimately, I guess the most important must be that the seller is happy with what amount he is getting back, and the buyer with what condition of bike he is getting.

 

Thanks all brudders for this fruitful discussion.

[xb84]

SW76 has displayed many uncommon bike ownership theories.

cheers.

[SW76]

Thanks bro onefour02 for his compliments and also his single most constructive input - SW76 so very much appreciate it indeed.

[Guest czh2002sg]

Originally posted by SW76@Dec 26 2006, 09:38 AM

Personally, bike life span to me is 3-4 years max – Car’s life span then is 10 years to me. Bikes to me is never meant to ridden for so long – if you noticed, bike’s mileage meter consists of 5 digits, after 99,999km, it goes back to 00,000 and completes one round. Car’s one consists of 6 digits, after 99,999km, it still can go to 100,000km. That’s why Bikes typical warranty is 10,000km/1 year whichever comes first, while cars one is 100,000km/3years whichever comes first.

I've seen uncles riding bikes older than me along the double yellow lines with their rain coats on the front rather than back. I'm 21. But aren't cars half my age a rare sight on the roads these days?

 

5 or 6 digits is not a true indication of how old a vehicle can last.

 

As for profit loss, i say, enjoy your ride. If you enjoyed your ride, it has been a profit. If you haven't, any profit in cash is not profit after all.

 

Have a safe ride

[SW76]

Yes Bro czh2002sg, I have oso witnessed some uncles ridding very old bikes like FA or FC and actually i am impressed at how they can still maintain their bikes to riding condition. I think for such plates, if they are heavy travellers, i suspect maybe their mileage may have gone thru couple of rounds oredi.

 

But again you are right - 5 or 6 digits is not an accurate indication of how lasting a vehicle can last... It actually boils down to how to maintain and take care of it. "Wear and tear" parts can be replaced tho personally i feel eventually it will break down one fine day even after constant replacing.

 

I concur with you totally on ur last comment. As the hokkien saying goes "Hua He Tio Ho"...

 

Safe and enjoyable riding to all the brudders here then.

Thanks.

[Keynes]

Originally posted by SW76@Dec 26 2006, 09:38 AM

Personally, bike life span to me is 3-4 years max – Car’s life span then is 10 years to me. Bikes to me is never meant to ridden for so long – if you noticed, bike’s mileage meter consists of 5 digits, after 99,999km, it goes back to 00,000 and completes one round. Car’s one consists of 6 digits, after 99,999km, it still can go to 100,000km. That’s why Bikes typical warranty is 10,000km/1 year whichever comes first, while cars one is 100,000km/3years whichever comes first.

 

Hi.

 

How long a bike or a car can last depends on how well you maintain and take care of them, the number of digits of the odometer is not an indiaction of how long it can last.

 

No offence to anyone, Merc and BMW, Volvo and many European cars can last very long, more than 20 yrs, but the lower range Malaysian or Korean cars can't. Bikes like Harley, Godwing, and some medium range Honda/Yamaha bikes can last easily more than 10 years, not to mention those lao K, (Yamaha RXK, LC), Honda and Suzuki GN125, they are still ridden by old uncles here and there, albeit the occassional road hog they created.

 

The reason where bike has 1year/50,000km waranty and car has a longer 3years/100,000km warranty is, I think, due to the perception of usage by typical bike and car owners respectively.

 

Car owners are usually more mature and take care of their priced asset (usually a family man), it slows down at humps, stops gradually, accelaerate slowly, it does go over humps quickly, bikes are perceived to be used by a younger group of ppl so more rough usage, that's why its shorter warranty.

 

That's being said, bikes have a few characteristics which make them shorter lifespans:-

 

1) Bikes engine runs at a higher rpm, typically at 6 to 7k rpm at cruising (cars, on the other hand, is about 2.5k to 3.5k rpm at cruising), this will cause the life of the engine of the bike to be shorter. That's also why bike engine oil is changed at every 5000 km whilst cars changed at 10,000km, both using fully synthetic oils.

 

2) bikers tends to go over humps (and damn it, S'pore has many of them!) faster. This is poison to the suspension,

 

3) bikes accelerate faster, more strain on its small engine,

 

4) bikes acceserios, eg, instrumentation gauges, seats are exposed to the elements, so wear faster,

 

5) bikes goes over pavement more often during parking.

 

6) 2-stroke bikes tend to emit more smoke after a few years (this is also the reason why bikes need to be inspected every year from the 4th year onwards while cars need only to be inspected every 2 years from the 4th year onwards).