Recreational Running

[mechwira]

Anybody here do running for recreation?

 

i am nowhere near marathon or triathlon level, but i recently found the time to jog regularly, and i'm beginning to do it more often and further in each run, for no other reason than because i bought a HRM watch, found my 'magic pace' based on heart rate, and suddenly i realized i dont need to always jog at ippt 2.4km pace in every jog, my 'magic pace' allowed me to actually cover more than twice the distance.

 

i also notice that in recent years, running as a hobby from just casual jog to marathons and triathlon and iron man is gaining popularity rapidy among sinagporeans, although frankly i laugh at 'marathoners' who jog 20 mins and walk 6 hours plus then proudly walk around in the marathon t-shirt....

 

i'm still only at the casual jog stage. wondering any here can discuss shoes, gear reviews, running routes, training patterns and running gait etc etc. i started reading up and only now realized so many complex issues.

 

shoes: minimalist vs maximalist? is pronation control just BS?

 

running gait: heel, midfoot or forefoot?

 

btw: i'm using New Balance 870 v2 and just bought Saucony Kinvara4 to try. the first has 8mm offset, the second has 4mm. i'm using Timex Zone Trainer HRM Watch, but recently bought the Nike+ Sportwatch GPS coz i got curious about distance, and now using the Nike+ app and online site and totally loving the fun ecosystem. i'd give reviews but right now i dont even know if anybody is reading this...

[seahmh]

I am also doing normal joggings, in order to bring down my BMI, my weight and my bad cholestrol.

 

I bought a Mizuno running shoes after a friend's recommendation.

 

I bought a Timex Marathon GPS watch on-line from Amazon, in order to measure the distance of my run and the time.

 

The watches and the running shoes and the research you did, makes me feel so ashamed. hahahaha...

 

Anyway, I stay in Queenstown. I always try to run 10-km per run at least once a week. Running one complete run around the Alexandra Park Connector from the old Queenstown cinema to Great World City and back.

 

If anyone keen on leisure, causal, NOT-marathon, running with an old man, feel free to make contact with me and we can jog and exercise together for our health, for our IPPT, etc...

 

hahahaha...

 

Cheers.

[mechwira]

wah, 10km eh? i only just reached 8km, although i manage to do it 3 times a week. my current short-term goal is to reach 10km by december, and join a 10km run next year to be honest, 8km in a single non-stop jog is the furthest i ever do in my life including back in NS days. but like you, marathon or even half-marathon is way too ambitious at this point

 

wat mizuno you using? and hows the timex? is the watch a standalone gps, or can upload to some timex website where they map your run on google map? coz my nike+ sportwatch can (must use in fact) upload to Nike+ website and can see my route on google map, and then compare my average speed/pace, distance and time from all my running logs. dam fun, but nike deliberately designed it to be a simple, casual and trendy tool, so i cant extract details like exact speed at different segments etc. so its not for serious people training for marathon or iron man, but good for casual runners.

 

no need paiseh my research leh. i read up coz i very concerned about running injury. you see, back in NS, i was issued the first-gen New Balance, and then when i about to ORD they released the second-gen New Balance. it was dam bulky and thick, but at that time ppl mostly donno much, everybody rush to buy (including me) coz it looked so 'pro', until all e-mart sold out within a month of release. especially since after NS i further studies no money buy 'proper' shoes so i cash out my credits with 2 pairs and use them for the next few years.

 

on hindsight, i now realized those shoes were giving me serious injuries. after almost every 3km run (my usual regular distance at that time), i suffered painful shin splints for one or two days, that pain in inner part of lower leg and sore shin bone. that time donno much i just assume its 'normal pain' from training hard and that it will go away when i become 'stronger'.

 

but after a couple of years, i suffered intense pain at the back of my knee everytime i squat or sit cross-legged for anything longer than 10mins. luckily after that i got married, got child so stopped running a few years and it healed

 

but now i found out that second-gen New Balance is too thick and had a whopping 16mm heel offset. i am now convinced that shoe is totally not good (at least for me), especially since now i run more often and further than before and none of the pain has returned.

[humph]

Marathons are no joke. I very arrogantly went for a full 42km run without having properly prepared, thinking that because I'd run a marathon before that I can do it again easily. Well I ended up with 2 broken feet (stress fracture) and couldn't walk for 2 weeks

 

I run with my iphone and runkeeper app. Alternate between 2 pairs of shoes, Asics and Saucony. This is to let the shoes "rest" and have both pairs last longer and also for their shape to "bounce back".

[mechwira]

at least you not the kind of people, never run further than 5km before then happily take part in marathon, walk for 6h plus and after that happily parade around in the marathon t-shirt

 

btw can direct me to articles about this 'resting of the shoes'? it never occurred to me the shoes need time to regain their shape in between runs.

[humph]

Do a search on "shoe rotation". If no results then "marathon training shoe rotation". I also read runnersworld sometimes.

 

http://runnersfeed.com/rotate-your-running-shoes/

[humph]

http://www.mizunousa.com/running/blog/article/do-you-need-a-second-pair-of-shoes

[mechwira]

hey thanks, good read.

 

coincidentally i now thinking of getting the Nike Free Hyperfeel when it comes out locally, coz it looks like its a good shoe to do occasional minimalist running once or twice a week to train up more muscles. i donno how much it will cost in singapore, but based on US price tag, looks expensive.

 

this shoe rotation concept looks like just the nudge for me to get them when they come out. now if i can just convince the wife that i need to do shoe rotation...

[Tanarthur]

I need recommendation for a HRM... Not too ex... the timex you mention on the high side... And where can I get them? Hopefully beside heart rate display, able to count how much calories and fat burn...

[mechwira]

I need recommendation for a HRM... Not too ex... the timex you mention on the high side... And where can I get them? Hopefully beside heart rate display, able to count how much calories and fat burn...

 

hi bro, let me share.

 

the thing is, you can get really good models from brands like garmin or others at good (not 'cheap', but 'appropriate') prices from very specialized shops. however, you need to ask the serious runners where these shops are and be willing to travel to their out of the way addresses.

 

i never had the time to do it so i cannot comment on where, what or how good these models are, i only know they exist. i can only comment on models found in general stores at shopping malls.

 

Harvey Norman sells a few Polar (clickm to see some) and Timex models, and the Nike+ Sportswatch. H2Hub watch shop (West Mall, Nex, Clementi Mall etc) sells a range of Polar and New Balance, but i did not get a good look coz at the time i was only interested in a New Balance $300 model with GPS and not the rest.

 

the polar models in Harvey Norman range from $80 all the way to $300. its really "you get what you pay for". The $80 shows ONLY heart rate in beats per minute, and nothing else. no stopwatch nothing. just heart rate. the $300 comes complete with shoe sensor and GPS, and extra functions like calorie count and heart rate alarms and online logging.

 

consider the polar only if you want hrm as cheap as possible and willing to accept less functionality. be sure to ask if the watch comes with the heart rate sensor or must buy seperately.

 

Timex has mostly the $199 heart rate only Zone Trainer, another $300 and another $500 models specifically for triathlon with water functionality and GPS.

 

tell you why i recommend the Timex Zone Trainer at $199 in Harvey Norman. It has just the functions a person needs for serious workout, without very technical things that triathletes or marathoners might need. it will calorie count based on your weight that you input. it has stopwatch and lap counter in tandem with heart rate. you can set an alarm for a specific heart rate zone; the alarm will beep if you go above or below the zone you set. once you stop your workout, it automatically tracks your 2min Heart Rate Recovery and displays the count with a beep 2mins after you press stop. you can choose to display and track heart rate either in beats per minute or % maximum heart rate based on you MHR that you input.

 

if you only want a HRM without GPS and online logging, you want minimum proper functions, its perfect. i found myself using all of its functions, and never wished for anything more.

 

until i became curious about my distance and started hunting for GPS functionality. that one, different long story.

 

hope i've helped.

[humph]

Shoe rotation has health benefits as well, as your posture might become too dependent on one pair of shoes and stress out certain body parts. Maybe that will convince your wife I've never tried minimalist running before. After the stress fracture I think cushioning is very very important.

 

There are some people who believe in barefoot running - when some African marathon runners were asked regarding their feelings on this, they laughed and said they only know of people who were forced to run barefoot cos they had no money for shoes

[humph]

I need recommendation for a HRM... Not too ex... the timex you mention on the high side... And where can I get them? Hopefully beside heart rate display, able to count how much calories and fat burn...

 

If you are lucky you will come across people selling off their monitors cheaply. I saw this ad not too long for a polar with shoe chip at only $30, original price was close to $200.

[mechwira]

Shoe rotation has health benefits as well, as your posture might become too dependent on one pair of shoes and stress out certain body parts. Maybe that will convince your wife I've never tried minimalist running before. After the stress fracture I think cushioning is very very important.

 

There are some people who believe in barefoot running - when some African marathon runners were asked regarding their feelings on this, they laughed and said they only know of people who were forced to run barefoot cos they had no money for shoes

 

literally barefoot, cannot lah. total lack of cushion and the possibility of sharp rocks and nails....

 

but minimalist, i thought if i purposely reduce the cushioning (but still have, thats why 'minimalist' not barefoot), then learn to run more efficiently, and do appropriate distance (like half my usual), i hoping will strengthen the muscles.

 

complete conversion to minimalist including long distance (i consider 10k and above long distance but thats only relative to my running), i not confident can pull off, i dont think good for me to do at this time, but whether its true some people say is actually better i'm open to the idea.

[humph]

What do you think of the Vibram Five Fingers?

[mechwira]

too extreme for me. i realli dun dare. not at this time anyway.

 

after using the saucony kinvara, with the 4mm heel drop, for the past month and deliberately changing my running style from heel strike to mid foot, i do find myself running more efficiently (as in faster, further with less energy required, and less joint pains). but i am still trying to make the midfoot strike a natural running style; i find that when i'm tired, or i start going fast like ippt 2.4km, my running stride like somewhere in between. the heel strike is still too ingrained into my feet and legs.

 

for this reason i dun dare use the vibram, the vivo barefoot and other 'true' minimalist shoes. i only looking at either shoes like saucony virrata with zero heel drop but conventional cushioning, or a step further like nike hyperfeel.

[ticks]

hey guys.... Im also a new runner but ive always had joint pain, particularly my right knee... its freaking annoying and basically limits me to running on flat roads..any hills will straightaway bring out the ache in my knee.. Wondering any places/doctors that you guys can recommend for this supposed problem?

[mechwira]

hey guys.... Im also a new runner but ive always had joint pain, particularly my right knee... its freaking annoying and basically limits me to running on flat roads..any hills will straightaway bring out the ache in my knee.. Wondering any places/doctors that you guys can recommend for this supposed problem?

 

i have no doctor to share, but like i mentioned in my first post, i used to experience terrible knee pain and shin splints, and am now convinced that it was due to the overly bulky and over-cushioned SAF New Balance shoes circa 2001, coupled with my running style with those shoes. and mind you at that time i ran only 3k to 4k three times a week.

 

so i'm suggesting it might be your shoe and your running style. what shoe may i ask? including in the past.

 

but i only suggesting, i no way qualified to diagnose your condition. whether its the shoes or not, its also possible that your condition is aggravated over several years and by now need surgery or injection. then again, it might also be a minor and temporary condition that can be corrected with better shoes or better running style or leg strengthening exercises.

 

but i can tell you that even now with what i believed to be improved running style and 'better' shoes, my joint pains are gone BUT i still cannot tackle steep downslopes. downslope is the one that damages the knees. and downslope running needs proper technique, which i am still trying to find. it takes me just one steep downslope with wrong technique and immediately i feel a discomfort in one or both knees.

[ticks]

hey mechwira thanks for the detailed answer.

 

For my history, Ive never done proper running in my life so u can say that Im an amateur when it comes to running. Ive recently taken this exercise up maybe within the pass one year, and that also not very consistently. I used to run on a adidas trail running shoe which has just died on me, Im currently on New balance 750 V2, cushioning shoe, i believe. I am now looking on youtube for running technique vids and realise that heel striking is my biggest mistake, so you're right, it's my technique. That may also explain why i feel my lower leg, particularly the shin muscles feeling damn tight after my 5k mark.

 

But i have to tell you that this whole knee problem was aggravated when i climbed Mount kinabalu. The first time i climbed it 2 years ago i hurt it, like u said, coming down..damn..then last year, i busted my left ankle by a bike accident but what to do, bookings made, i climbed mount K the second time a year after the first climb, just a week after the accident, with walking sticks, of course. and not surprisingly, what gave me the bulk of the pain wasn't my busted left ankle (I was wearing TCX Jupiter bike boots strapped tight at the ankle, yes you heard me right, Bike boots!), but it was my right knee, while DESCENDING. so pain that i had to lean on the sticks when i was descending. So i guess the whole knee problem didn't originate from my running in the past which i had none, but from the climbs, and further made noticeable when i took up running..

 

ANyway im going for my company's sponsored health screening and ill pop the question to the doc and see what she can recommend also...

[mechwira]

the pieces seem to fit then.

 

1) past injury

2) heel striking

3) yes, descending is what causes and aggravates any injury, not ascending.

4) trail shoes also possible.

5) shin pain at 5k? yeah thats exactly the signal that either the shoe or your running technique (maybe both) not quite right.

 

if you got sponsored doctor might as well get a diagnosis man.

 

if i were in your shoes (no pun intended), i'd try change shoes, change running stride, and run completely flat terrain. if after a month the pain is reducing, i know i'm on the right track (again no pun intended ). but if the pain persists, pro help definitely needed.

[ticks]

Yea. Anyway my NB is only a week old so I'm actually testing out this pair of shoes as well. And yes I'm running flat terrain with the slight inclines along tanglin road area, nth too damaging. I'll start changing my running style tonight and see how it goes over the next weeks and update on this thread. Hopefully it still stays active. Lol.

[mechwira]

just to share my own experience about changing running style away from heel striking.

 

the trick is to purposely run with smaller steps and 'pedal' faster. plus the entire time you must consciously keep thinking to yourself to let the middle of the foot hit the ground, bend the knees a bit more and don't "dig your boots".

 

it will confirm feel awkward at the start if your usual running is heel strike. this awkwardness also makes it feel more tiring, tempting you to revert to your usual style. some more you will think how can 'pedal' faster, then smaller steps go slower, be less tiring and more efficient?

 

but strangely if you keep at it for two weeks, you start finding that you are jogging back to the same speed as before yet it feels noticeably less tiring. after 3 weeks you start finding your speed slightly faster than before, and still not as tiring.

 

i also have opinions about the right shoe for this running style, but i think i wait for your update first.

 

good luck.

[skyblueblue]

i'm running so i can pass my ippt. Didn't realise shoe and running posture can affect knee pain.. i always thought it was wear and tear.

 

thanks for the tips

[skyblueblue]

i'm running so i can pass my ippt. Didn't realise shoe and running posture can affect knee pain.. i always thought it was wear and tear.

 

thanks for the tips

[humph]

Glucosamine works. My doctor friends say there isn't any "scientific proof" why it works so they cannot recommend it professionally but experience tell them it works. Like most supplements you have to cycle off it after a while though.

[humph]

Usually doctors can't help with issues like joint pains (they'll prob ask you to xray and if nothing shows up they say sorry, can't help) but you can consider consulting a physiotherapist. Doctors may seem like a class above physios cos their degrees take forever to finish but if the matters are not within their expertise they can be pretty ignorant.

 

I've encountered senior consultants who are pretty rubbish. I fractured my finger while surfing and the senior consultant said oh no worries no need surgery your finger will heal, will become misshapened but fully functional. I asked him whether I will be able to rock-climb he said yes. Total rubbish. My finger never went back to 100% functional so now I have to schedule a surgery.