City Harvest Church

[MS]

Originally posted by josean@Aug 1 2005, 01:41 PM

meaning to say that even if the food is used to pray to Buddha before christians also can eat lah.

Basically yes. But technically, it is also stated that if eating the food makes your brother falls then dun eat it. If this thing causes you or your brother to sin then throw it away or avoid it.

 

Eg. When you eat the food offered to idol before, your younger christian brother happens to walk pass you, "Eh! how come you eat that?!"

 

Because nothing is unclean unless God says so. Still remember Peter and the Roman O.C.? God told him to kill and eat the 'dirty' animals in the vision. But he responded as "Eee... how can? These are dirty animals!" Then God told him not to categorise anyone unclean. These so called dirty animals are actually the group of pple God sent Peter to later.

[Phantom00]

Originally posted by MS@Aug 1 2005, 01:22 PM

Why not you post what I wrote to you? I find that you've falsely accused me. If you feel I had been harsh and arrogant in my PM to you, then I apologise.

 

C'mon, relak a bit. If you cannot take being told off for doing something wrong then I dunno what else to say.

I do not see any point in posting your private messages since you said I can edit them before posting in your earlier reply.

 

As for the being told by you part I do not see you were right in your theory in the first place. Then again you have the rights to believe in your own theory.

 

I think you are bogged with too much baggage abt thinking in terms of religion in discussing abt issues. There are quite a few who have lost the objectivity because they think abt the issues in terms of a religion. When I asked speedkills on the issue of building an expensive building he had gone off explaining in terms of religion. I was just thinking perhaps we can lay aside the religious thing and just discuss it like any other issue, whether its built by religious or non religious bodies.

 

If we can put aside the religious baggage then perhaps we can approach issues or people whom we do not agree with more objectivity. If I don't agree with you, I put to you my disagreements, whether its abt religion or secular issues.

[ah_tee]

Originally posted by MS@Aug 1 2005, 12:11 PM

Don't flame me, as I find an argumentative spirit a trademark of CCC. Always cannot wait to rebuke pple. You've misintepreted the pt of rebuking. Rebuking is not done with malice but with love.

u got it right there hahahahah

[Ghost00]

Originally posted by redname@Aug 1 2005, 01:27 PM

in suntec?

at CHC

[redname]

Originally posted by josean@Aug 1 2005, 01:41 PM

meaning to say that even if the food is used to pray to Buddha before christians also can eat lah.

if we know its offered to idols (pardon me to use tht word), we wld not eat it as it considered "unclean" to us. of cus if u eat without knowing then its clean lor cause u dnt know mah

[josean]

Originally posted by redname@Aug 2 2005, 12:17 AM

if we know its offered to idols (pardon me to use tht word), we wld not eat it as it considered "unclean" to us. of cus if u eat without knowing then its clean lor cause u dnt know mah

doesnt this contradict with what u have said

 

>

 

could you pls explain ?

[josean]

Originally posted by Denden@Aug 1 2005, 01:41 PM

Really a big laughing stock

what is there to cheer about?

or are you just trying to chalk up posts ?

[josean]

Originally posted by MS@Aug 1 2005, 02:04 PM

If this thing causes you or your brother to sin then throw it away or avoid it.

 

this would further reiterate my point on HYS.

 

if this thing causes your brother to sin, blah blah blah.

SK was unable to give me a reasonable explanation to why his church(CHC) operates in such a fashion

 

 

and im not the only one that i know who is disgusted by this issue.

[redname]

Originally posted by josean@Aug 3 2005, 11:37 AM

doesnt this contradict with what u have said

 

>

 

could you pls explain ?

no it doesn't. if we dnt know its offered to idols then we won't tink its unclean rite? haha, i type so many words jus to make sure u dnt tink it contradicts but u still mistaken it

[josean]

Originally posted by redname@Aug 3 2005, 12:29 PM

no it doesn't. if we dnt know its offered to idols then we won't tink its unclean rite? haha, i type so many words jus to make sure u dnt tink it contradicts but u still mistaken it

if a christian has this chicken in front of him.

so he prays to give thanks and asks God to bless the food.

 

so. the food is now 'clean' yeah ?

 

 

is this chicken was previously offered to idols, so can eat or not?

 

 

if u say NO. didnt u just say can eat because God has 'cleansed the food' already

 

>

 

 

note u said 'EVERYTHING IS CLEAN'

 

give thanks liao of course the food is clean la

 

 

is u say YES,

then didnt u just say >

 

sorry i dunno how to make the box come up

[Denden]

Originally posted by josean@Aug 3 2005, 11:41 AM

what is there to cheer about?

or are you just trying to chalk up posts ?

There'll be more than my current two hundred over posts if I'm clocking posts.

An idiot can tell you that.

 

 

What I'm trying to say is................. It's a real big ###### laughing stock!!!

 

Shame.....

[MS]

Originally posted by Denden@Aug 4 2005, 03:06 PM

There'll be more than my current two hundred over posts if I'm clocking posts.

An idiot can tell you that.

 

 

What I'm trying to say is................. It's a real big ###### laughing stock!!!

 

Shame.....

Couldn't Agree more.

[redname]

Originally posted by josean@Aug 3 2005, 11:46 PM

if a christian has this chicken in front of him.

so he prays to give thanks and asks God to bless the food.

 

so. the food is now 'clean' yeah ?

 

 

is this chicken was previously offered to idols, so can eat or not?

 

 

if u say NO. didnt u just say can eat because God has 'cleansed the food' already

 

>

 

 

note u said 'EVERYTHING IS CLEAN'

 

give thanks liao of course the food is clean la

 

 

is u say YES,

then didnt u just say >

 

sorry i dunno how to make the box come up

huh? i dont tink u really understood wat i've been saying cause wat u r replying is not the same of wat i'm saying at all. aiyah nvm, maybe i leave tis to someone else who can explain better

[speedkills]

josean, you seem like really alot of questions...

 

what redname was trying to say is that, you can eat anything in the world. (strictly nothing bloody tho) God created all things for us to enjoy only certain ground rules. one of which includes no eating food offered to idols.

 

different people have different views on that. for me is, its a plain no to food offered to idols even if i can choose to pray for sanctification. given a choice, i would choose not to. but lets say if i was stuck in the wilderness and thers no choice, i would pray and sanctify it and eat it by faith. simple as that...its a matter of choice.

 

as to whether it might stumble another fellow believer/non believer...its up to a individual's believe system. its just like the tatooing issue. there are many christians who still tatoo...does it mean that they are bad christians? no... no doubt that the bible states that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, some people may say that it beautifies the body. body-art is the term. so according to each one's faith.

 

according to my faith, i try if i can never to take food offered unless i done it out of pure ignorance, that is i ate the food that i saw being left on the table only to find out later that it was offered to idol. i would just pray that God will clense me...because firstly you have to understand why the bible states that we should not eat food offered to idols...

 

because doin so might open up doors to demonic entry. that is another topic in itself. so having said that, some people feel that they will be ok then go ahead. personally i try not to if i could. hope that answers your questions.

 

but i'm sure you still have loads of it that i reallyu dun think i will be able to / wouldnt wan to in case i say the wrong things to answer you. the bottomline is.. if you are very very very against the teachings of this church, there are hundreds of others out there and i am sure there is bound to be one that will suit your believe system. when you mentioned earlier that i cant answer your doubts....i would clarify that not that i cant answer you..its i feel theres no more need to answer your doubt. because you already have a certain believe system that no matter what others say, you surely have something against it.

 

redname isnt from my church and he also choose to let others answer you because you are not going to be able to find the answers you are looking for because you already have your "ideal" believes.

 

i have many questions too, but i choose to jus live life as it is first and ask God when i see him someday

maybe i can help you ask then.

 

peace. ride safely

[josean]

thanks SK for the clarification.

 

i do not have my ''ideal beliefs'' as im do not consider myself a christian ... for now

 

i do had that kind of belief in the past, but thats history already and another topic altogether.

 

this is one of the questions that came to my mind when i read the statment on the ''no pork issue'' and ''giving thanks for the food issue'' coz what i know contradicts what is being mentioned as i have explained above

 

 

once again,

ride safe too. rainy season these few days

[redname]

hey bros in Christ, tis week is FOP, i'm gng 2nite, hope to see some of u there too. i'll be wearing a shoei helmet, my bike is a dull silver ver S. say hi if u see me

[speedkills]

Originally posted by redname@Aug 5 2005, 10:51 AM

hey bros in Christ, tis week is FOP, i'm gng 2nite, hope to see some of u there too. i'll be wearing a shoei helmet, my bike is a dull silver ver S. say hi if u see me

we are talking about 10000 people.... hahahahahahhaah

 

wonder how many peeps i will see wearing shoei

[Phantom00]

Originally posted by MS@Aug 4 2005, 03:54 PM

Couldn't Agree more.

I do not agree. I think it necessary to point out your erroneous beliefs and to clarify it, not only in private messages. I do not agree we should just stand and watch when things are wrong. Your beliefs are erroneous. They are nice sounding but deceiving. You were not exactly gentle in your private messages but claimed gentleness is the way. For those who have integrity and are honest and consistent in their replies, whether they are wrong or not, such as speedkills I will never adopt a hard approach. I am not the only one who sees the error in your beliefs, non-believers and believers alike see it. Since you cleverly alleged that I can edit the private messages you sent me before posting I will list some of your posts that appeared public.

 

Quote MS

Jun 19 2005, 04:50 AM

 

To the above quote, If I were to see those so called hard core christians, I will simply leave them to do what they want. If I stop them what does it actually benefit us?

 

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forum/index....dpost&p=1897989

 

 

Reply from BikeLover

Jun 19 2005, 10:22 AM

 

Your doctrine don't seems very good either. For example, one day when you are very weak and too sick to move and 12 rogue monks pulled you into the temple to shave. I know you very well and I know these monks are wrong, but I just stand there doing nothing, becos "I don't want to create frictions between buddhists". I let Buddha decide mah. Now you are alive but cannot move, so you lan-lan watch as your hair get shaved one.....by.....one. The rest touch-wood so I don't say..... kekeke. And to add oil to the fire, I quote "If I stop them what does it actually benefit us?"

 

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forum/index....dpost&p=1898141

 

 

Reply from BaaBaa Black Sheep

Jun 19 2005, 02:44 PM

 

I do not agree with you. you choose to turn a blind eye to your fellow wayward believers. That is an extremely selfish act. And stopping them do not benefit u.

And if god was to judge them, you will be judge the same way as them.

Equally wrong.

 

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forum/index....dpost&p=1898665

 

 

Reply from max_nhk

Jun 19 2005, 04:44 PM

 

Neither us or anybody can control what others think. They might not even want to hear, let alone understand and accept.

But does that mean one should give up and not even try?

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forum/index....dpost&p=1898965

 

 

 

You had repeatedly expounded on not pointing out another person’s mistakes, and that gentleness is the way. But your posts exhibit arrogance and criticism of others as having no faith, shallow understanding, at the same time alleging that City Harvest’s teachings are wrong. Are you not being inconsistent and tripping over your own statements?

 

Quote MS

Aug 1 2005, 12:11 PM

 

I think its better for us to take out the log in our own eyes before telling your brother to take out the log in his eyes. Such a person is a what you should know. Even I think I dun have the right to point your mistakes in the public forum.

 

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forum/index....dpost&p=2036783

 

 

Quote MS

Jun 19 2005, 03:43 PM

 

Christian brother! U really lack faith and take things into your hands too much.

Then don't let the shallow understanding which you lean on yourself cloud whats God's desire in what he hopes you to be.

 

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forum/index....dpost&p=1898834

 

 

Quote MS

Jul 25 2005, 07:34 PM

 

The reason I left the church was due to extreme wrong doctrines in their teachings.

 

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forum/index....dpost&p=2016642

 

 

Quote MS

Jul 26 2005, 06:46 PM

 

The way CHC are doing are wrong already.

 

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forum/index....dpost&p=2019926

 

 

Reply from BikeLover

Jun 19 2005, 04:43 PM

 

Now u call the christian frens here have no faith

 

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forum/index....dpost&p=1898964

 

 

Reply from BikeLover

Jun 19 2005, 10:22 AM

 

It is with this kind of attitude when the true misunderstanding arose..... this kind of I-am-correct-you-don't-understand attitude. Anyway this is a forum, that is why u post to discuss, rite?

 

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forum/index....dpost&p=1898141

 

 

It is alright to disagree with another’s point of view, when you support it with basis. Whether the other party agrees or not it is their rights. We should not, however, say one thing and do another. If you state that you don’t point out another’s mistakes, and that gentleness not arrogance is the way, then be consistent and act on it. Here are further cases of your inconsistencies:

 

 

Quote MS

Jul 29 2005, 08:14 PM

 

Whoever is right or wrong is be judged by God.

Whether the church is right or wrong, let God decide.

 

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forum/index....dpost&p=2030726

 

 

Your judgement on City Harvest being wrong:

 

Quote MS

Jul 25 2005, 07:34 PM

 

The reason I left the church was due to extreme wrong doctrines in their teachings.

 

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forum/index....dpost&p=2016642

 

 

Quote MS

Jul 26 2005, 06:46 PM

 

The way CHC are doing are wrong already.

 

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forum/index....dpost&p=2019926

 

 

More inconsistencies:

 

Quote MS

Aug 1 2005, 12:11 PM

 

The discussions have ended.

I find no pt in further replying.

 

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forum/index....dpost&p=2036783

 

 

Note: You stated in the above reply that the discussion have ended, and that you had found no point in replying. But in just an hours’ time we see your reply:

 

Quote MS

Aug 1 2005, 01:22 PM

 

C'mon, relak a bit. If you cannot take being told off for doing something wrong then I dunno what else to say.

 

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forum/index....dpost&p=2037033

 

 

Moreover

 

Have you not stated you don’t tell off another person on Aug 1 2005, 12:11 PM?

 

 

Quote MS

Aug 1 2005, 12:11 PM

 

Even I think I dun have the right to point your mistakes in the public forum.

 

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forum/index....dpost&p=2036783

 

 

But on Aug 1 2005, 01:22, in just an hours’ time by your own admission you stated you had told another person off:

 

Quote MS

Aug 1 2005, 01:22 PM

 

C'mon, relak a bit. If you cannot take being told off for doing something wrong then I dunno what else to say.

 

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forum/index....dpost&p=2037033

 

 

I have no problem with people who are firm and assertive in their tone, whether they are wrong or not, as long as they come with a basis and are consistent and honest in their dealings with people (refer: http://www.singaporebikes.com/forum/index....post&p=2023647)

 

However, I will not tolerate people who are inconsistent, and also those who preach one thing but act another.

 

 

Matthew 23.27

 

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness.

[redname]

Originally posted by speedkills@Aug 5 2005, 01:38 PM

we are talking about 10000 people.... hahahahahahhaah

 

wonder how many peeps i will see wearing shoei

Aiyah, dnt have photo to send to u leh

 

my shoei is the norick TC2 '05 design. i'll be wearing a black riding jacket too

[MS]

How I have behaved, the public sees. And how you've behaved, the public also sees. Who's the hypocrite, God decides. I dun have any right to shoot you back. Josean is a personal friend of mine for years. His nature is very calm and peaceful. Something bad must have rocked his faith like earthquake. Both he and SK has turned to a more peaceful way to discuss. Shouldn't you too? I have pointed out CHC's wrong doctrine part not as form of arrogance. I have been discussig this with pple from my church and even members of other churches agree. However, CHC has undoubted integrity in their honesty towards funds management. This is what 3 months of CHC has shown. Stop hanging the word hypocrite on your mouth. Only Jesus has the right to call pple hypocrite. The rest who uses it are hypocrites themselves.

 

1 impt thing that explains many things: Prayer is never the last resort to solve things. Human intervention is never the best.

 

I just share a story with you as well the public.

 

A woman was brought to Jesus by the pharisees. The pharisees claimed that she was a filthy woman. So they asked Jesus to give the permission to stone her to death according to Moses law. This was done to trap him. Upon hearing this, Jesus said,"Whoever is without sin may throw the first stone." And Jesus squate down and started scribbling on the floor. As he scribbled, 1 by 1, the pharisees left 1 by 1 until all of them left. Then Jesus asked the woman, "eh? where are the pharisees?"

The woman replied, "Sir, they all left."

Then Jesus told the woman to go too, but stop sinning.

[MS]

Originally posted by redname@Aug 5 2005, 03:47 PM

Aiyah, dnt have photo to send to u leh

 

my shoei is the norick TC2 '05 design. i'll be wearing a black riding jacket too

Exchange HP numbers lah!...

[redname]

Originally posted by MS@Aug 5 2005, 03:57 PM

How I have behaved, the public sees. And how you've behaved, the public also sees. Who's the hypocrite, God decides. I dun have any right to shoot you back. Josean is a personal friend of mine for years. His nature is very calm and peaceful. Something bad must have rocked his faith like earthquake. Both he and SK has turned to a more peaceful way to discuss. Shouldn't you too? I have pointed out CHC's wrong doctrine part not as form of arrogance. I have been discussig this with pple from my church and even members of other churches agree. However, CHC has undoubted integrity in their honesty towards funds management. This is what 3 months of CHC has shown. Stop hanging the word hypocrite on your mouth. Only Jesus has the right to call pple hypocrite. The rest who uses it are hypocrites themselves.

 

1 impt thing that explains many things: Prayer is never the last resort to solve things. Human intervention is never the best.

 

I just share a story with you as well the public.

 

A woman was brought to Jesus by the pharisees. The pharisees claimed that she was a filthy woman. So they asked Jesus to give the permission to stone her to death according to Moses law. This was done to trap him. Upon hearing this, Jesus said,"Whoever is without sin may throw the first stone." And Jesus squate down and started scribbling on the floor. As he scribbled, 1 by 1, the pharisees left 1 by 1 until all of them left. Then Jesus asked the woman, "eh? where are the pharisees?"

The woman replied, "Sir, they all left."

Then Jesus told the woman to go too, but stop sinning.

jus let him be lah. he wanna shoot at pple, jus let him go ahead. i've learnt to jus let things go, face doesn't worth much anyway. he also shoot me but until a certain point, i jus dnt give a damn. if the person tinks he's rite all the while & u have done ur part in explaining & trying to correct, then its really up to ther person to hear, if he doesn't then thts his biz. remember, those who have ears, let them hear. u r rite bout the word hypocrite cause whenever we point to smeone, 3 fingers r pointing back to us, if i'm not wrg, there's a verse thts says the same thing

[redname]

Originally posted by MS@Aug 5 2005, 04:00 PM

Exchange HP numbers lah!...

shy lah

 

u gng or not?

[MS]

Originally posted by redname@Aug 5 2005, 05:21 PM

shy lah

 

u gng or not?

I WANNA GO! But working nightshift. At first I tot of going with an old army friend of mine also from the forum in the sportsbike side. The chicken rice stall owner. But then when I realised I got night shift I sian 1/2 way. My friend jio Kulai tomorrow I also cannot go, Only help him jio pple join him at 2200H.

[sheep]

Originally posted by MS@Aug 1 2005, 02:04 PM

Basically yes. But technically, it is also stated that if eating the food makes your brother falls then dun eat it. If this thing causes you or your brother to sin then throw it away or avoid it.

 

Eg. When you eat the food offered to idol before, your younger christian brother happens to walk pass you, "Eh! how come you eat that?!"

 

Because nothing is unclean unless God says so. Still remember Peter and the Roman O.C.? God told him to kill and eat the 'dirty' animals in the vision. But he responded as "Eee... how can? These are dirty animals!" Then God told him not to categorise anyone unclean. These so called dirty animals are actually the group of pple God sent Peter to later.

Then why so many still xtians classfiy food offered by the buddhist to be unclean?

Guess there must be some goof harping on the old teachings. And people who are too stubborn to accept others beliefs