Buying and reselling bikes on SingaporeBikes

[calebike]

I am hoping if we could educate them enough, most buyers know how to calculate the risks and cost, then most will walk away from the high price and the price will go down.

 

Precisely there are ppl who think the price is right thats y we need to educate them. If not our bike market will be like car market sky high.

 

Flat is an appreciating commodity while bike or car is not.

 

wow, educate others. thats a pretty strong point you want there. to put it very simply why bike/car prices will appreciate when COE prices increase; proportionately, maybe marginally but definitely not of the same magnitude as the increase in COE. People selling their second hand bike and going for a new one would be paying higher prices. Therefore they would sell their previous rides at the current market rate that would be at a slight premium off straight line depreciation due to the increase in COE.

 

COE bikes like you mentioned has no value... legally (no PARF). BUT it has its residual market value. same for flat being an appreciating asset. lets say you bought a condo 2 years back at an all time high with prices being lower now. Are you going to benchmark your prices to your purchase price? then good luck selling it. Bro, its all about market forces.

 

and here is your introduction to the invisible hand, your educating of others has no place here.

[mechwira]

why are harley and other collectible bikes special? first owner also pay COE, the bike not made of gold.

 

they're special for no other reason than because enthusiasts willing to pay special prices for them.

 

why is flat an appreciating asset?

 

because people willing to pay current owner more than what he originally paid for it.

 

the pattern is obvious: the market determines the price based on what people are willing to pay for the item. normal bike, special bike, hdb flat, all use the same mechanics.

 

there is no point trying to 'educate' anyone. sure, some people ignorant kena 'carrot', but the fact is most people pay high prices not because they ignorant but because its wat they can afford and what they think its worth based on other factors beyond just the original price or actual COE.

 

you cannot 'educate' people into reducing property prices in singapore, or any price mechanism in a free market.

[Paikia44]

why are harley and other collectible bikes special? first owner also pay COE, the bike not made of gold.

 

they're special for no other reason than because enthusiasts willing to pay special prices for them.

 

why is flat an appreciating asset?

 

because people willing to pay current owner more than what he originally paid for it.

 

the pattern is obvious: the market determines the price based on what people are willing to pay for the item. normal bike, special bike, hdb flat, all use the same mechanics.

 

there is no point trying to 'educate' anyone. sure, some people ignorant kena 'carrot', but the fact is most people pay high prices not because they ignorant but because its wat they can afford and what they think its worth based on other factors beyond just the original price or actual COE.

 

you cannot 'educate' people into reducing property prices in singapore, or any price mechanism in a free market.

Clap clap clap....

Just like the person who bought the HDB in Bishan for a million sillydollars. Buyers should hold the responsibility of ensuring they know what they are getting themselves into. That said, sellers should also have proper ethics and not deliberately hide or even lie about bike condition/history.

[xaley]

Clap clap clap....

.... That said, sellers should also have proper ethics and not deliberately hide or even lie about bike condition/history.

 

Thought that's what every sales person does...

[200sx]

mechwira you sound like a salesman. Well, your concept of supply and demand is not flawed but your concept of perceptional mechanics are.

 

Most ppl are brainwashed by the sales, marketing and invisible hands. The invisible hands are everywhere and it created an artificial market all due to manipulation of human physiology. I wont say I want to educate, I would prefer to enlighten the others. The more ppl who are enlighten, the market will not be so inflated due to "perception". Perception of value has no value. It is subjective. If the buyer like the HDB/bike/car, he is willing to pay the sky.

 

That is how cooling measures works. Invisible hands can change anything they want, but if we resist, there is nothing the sellers can do but lower the price.

 

Everyone is in this rat race, those enthusiast must be damn rich while the others are not. If everyone thinks like you do, kuddos to the invisiblehand. They have successfully brainwash you.

Edited May 7, 2015 by 200sx

[mechwira]

mechwira you sound like a salesman. Well, your concept of supply and demand is not flawed but your concept of perceptional mechanics are.

 

Most ppl are brainwashed by the sales, marketing and invisible hands. The invisible hands are everywhere and it created an artificial market all due to manipulation of human physiology. I wont say I want to educate, I would prefer to enlighten the others. The more ppl who are enlighten, the market will not be so inflated due to "perception". Perception of value has no value. It is subjective. If the buyer like the HDB/bike/car, he is willing to pay the sky.

 

That is how cooling measures works. Invisible hands can change anything they want, but if we resist, there is nothing the sellers can do but lower the price.

 

Everyone is in this rat race, those enthusiast must be damn rich while the others are not. If everyone thinks like you do, kuddos to the invisiblehand. They have successfully brainwash you.

 

well clearly the implication here is that i am an ignorant brainwashed buyer/seller who requires some enlightenment.

 

i'm just being realistic and practical.

 

i bought my current car just before COE skyrocketed. for 3 years after that, the value of my car was exactly the same as the price i paid for it. there was practically no depreciation. thats coz at the price i paid for it, it was 15k cheaper, 20k cheaper than brand new. of coz, it was cheaper not because the car remained brand new, but because COE shoot up. but the fact remains, buyers decided a 2 year old hyundai for 20k cheaper than brand new is worth it.

 

in your ideal world, you can 'educate/enlighten' every single buyer in the local secondhand market to insist on the 'proper' price of that car taking into account its actual COE. and yes, price will drop because no buyer wants to buy it at 0% depreciation, every buyer insists on 10k cheaper.

 

unfortunately, in the real world, prices are determined by demand-supply. demand for secondhand vehicles go up because prices of brand new skyrocket. so prices of secondhand go up.

 

and you conveniently brush aside the fact that your hdb is an appreciating asset precisely because of this very same mechanism. we're all happy that our flat's value go up, but not happy that secondhand vehicles with low COE become expensive. understandable, but not realistic.

 

at the end of the day bro, yeah i think its stupid to pay high price for secondhand bike. like i also think its stupid to pay for a piece of COE paper that costs more than the car itself. but realistically thats how a demand-supply market works.

 

good luck enlightening people and changing the market forces. i'll thank you personally if i buy secondhand car next year at a low price.

[calebike]

mechwira you sound like a salesman. Well, your concept of supply and demand is not flawed but your concept of perceptional mechanics are.

 

Most ppl are brainwashed by the sales, marketing and invisible hands. The invisible hands are everywhere and it created an artificial market all due to manipulation of human physiology. I wont say I want to educate, I would prefer to enlighten the others. The more ppl who are enlighten, the market will not be so inflated due to "perception". Perception of value has no value. It is subjective. If the buyer like the HDB/bike/car, he is willing to pay the sky.

 

That is how cooling measures works. Invisible hands can change anything they want, but if we resist, there is nothing the sellers can do but lower the price.

 

Everyone is in this rat race, those enthusiast must be damn rich while the others are not. If everyone thinks like you do, kuddos to the invisiblehand. They have successfully brainwash you.

 

bro 200sx. your POV a little... flawed. the "invisible hand" does not create an artificial market, it creates the actual market itself. manipulation of human psychology? how so? if sellers are advertising absurd prices for their bikes, does this manipulate buyers into thinking their bikes are worth more? then why do we have unsold bikes around. this is when the value of the buyer does not match the perception of the same value by the seller. Sales, marketing does not brainwash people, it creates the perception of value to people (i am not in sales btw). then the buy-no buy decision would be made by the rational individual on whether is it a worthwhile purchase.

 

i dont feel HDB is an accurate comparison as it is not entirely a free market due to government intervention. we should take a look at the private properties. you do know that recently a few high profile sales were made?(losses of millions were incurred by the seller).

 

and lastly, everyone is in this rat race whereby meritocracy rules. money which is seen as the reward for work, talks. sadly. yet at the same time my bro 200sx, resistance is futile.

[kzone]

bro 200sx, leave the wonderland... join us in the real world.

[200sx]

Yeah bro, we need you ppl to help me propagate my wonderland! Please tell your friends and family about it. They will say we are crazy, but if we dont be crazy, the world will be more crazy! For the good of bikers! HDB and properties are way out due to the invisible hands. And this invisible hands have tasted success and is greedy to want more from COE. We must stop them!! I know its futile, at least I tried.

 

Anyway to change ppl's perception is equal to brainwash. Anything that involves COE and properties is controlled by invisible hands.

Edited May 8, 2015 by 200sx

[200sx]

Another POV concept I wanted to bring up is diamonds. They are absolutely valueless after you bought over from the shop. They are not rare earth and diamonds can be found in abundance on earth. The whole diamond business was a brainwash propaganda by debeers. I want to prevent another case of this.

[filtered]

Another POV concept I wanted to bring up is diamonds. They are absolutely valueless after you bought over from the shop. They are not rare earth and diamonds can be found in abundance on earth. The whole diamond business was a brainwash propaganda by debeers. I want to prevent another case of this.

 

Good luck convincing the ladies

[kzone]

Another POV concept I wanted to bring up is diamonds. They are absolutely valueless after you bought over from the shop. They are not rare earth and diamonds can be found in abundance on earth. The whole diamond business was a brainwash propaganda by debeers. I want to prevent another case of this.

 

 

same with food bro... its ridiculous the amount people spend on food!

[calebike]

haha. nice one. its hard for someone with no logic to convince others.

[mechwira]

on the contrary, there is logic behind his argument, but not realistic.

 

same as the $1 COE campaign. some bikers/drivers submit $1 COE bid every month, and tell everybody to submit $1 bid because they believe this will bring COE down to $1. if you successfully get every single bidder to submit $1 bid in the next round, yes the next COE will indeed be $1.

 

realistically, this will never happen because number of available COE is always less than number of bidders. if i know confirm plus chop next bid everyone submit $1, i will be smart and submit $10. if i am the only one who submit $10, i will confirm get a COE, and it will still be $1. but obviously i'm not the only 'smart' person around. others will think the same way. to guarantee a COE and beat the other $1 bidders, others will bid higher. and your whole campaign collapses, back to square one. logical way of getting $1 COE? yes. realistic? never.

 

its the exact same case with secondhand vehicles. the fact is people will decide how much they willing to pay based on their income and based on external factors especially price of first hand.

[200sx]

It is possible! but if and only if humans are not greedy. Its all about human physiology. If you study human physiology in marketing, you will know. There are very obvious case studies. Look at Japan and Germany and their work ethics and mentality. First world country! We only have first world infrastructure but third world mentality.

 

I concur with mechwira for the realistic part. If we do nothing now, things will get worst for us and our next generations. I am proud to say I propagate my ideas to most of the ppl around me. Work or doesnt work, I did my part.

[calebike]

haha. amazing

[Boon6600]

All this logic is going nowhere. If everybody cooperate or takan for 3 month, COE will skydive to $1/- but will never happen. What is suppose to be transparent but not so as no one know who bid for how much except the figure suddenly shot up before closing time at 4pm opn the last day of bidding.

[hachi]

All this logic is going nowhere. If everybody cooperate or takan for 3 month, COE will skydive to $1/- but will never happen. What is suppose to be transparent but not so as no one know who bid for how much except the figure suddenly shot up before closing time at 4pm opn the last day of bidding.

 

Dealers bidding for it during the last min. I advocate the same theory until i realized no one will sell you the machine without COE purchased from them. Unless the policy maker changes the policy to close the account for dealers. But this will left behind another interest group where they do not have the money to bid but in need of a vehicle for a living. The current model of dealers bidding the COE on behalf of individual is still the best way to go about moving all interest groups.

Edited May 10, 2015 by hachi

[hachi]

on the contrary, there is logic behind his argument, but not realistic.

 

same as the $1 COE campaign. some bikers/drivers submit $1 COE bid every month, and tell everybody to submit $1 bid because they believe this will bring COE down to $1. if you successfully get every single bidder to submit $1 bid in the next round, yes the next COE will indeed be $1.

 

realistically, this will never happen because number of available COE is always less than number of bidders. if i know confirm plus chop next bid everyone submit $1, i will be smart and submit $10. if i am the only one who submit $10, i will confirm get a COE, and it will still be $1. but obviously i'm not the only 'smart' person around. others will think the same way. to guarantee a COE and beat the other $1 bidders, others will bid higher. and your whole campaign collapses, back to square one. logical way of getting $1 COE? yes. realistic? never.

 

its the exact same case with secondhand vehicles. the fact is people will decide how much they willing to pay based on their income and based on external factors especially price of first hand.

I am the believe in this until someone prompt me that dealers do have account that can submit multiple bids. That's why during the last 30 mins you will see COE prices sky rocketed.

They can have back log of sales waiting to be fulfilled. And no matter what's the price of COE, the customer will pay for it.

The ace card is on the dealers' hands not us. I believe many brought their vehicle during the deluge of leveraging in the 2006-2009 era. Where $1 drive away and a 10 years installments plan makes it affordable to everyone.

I hope the 40% down pay would weed out these people and drop the COE to 10-20k region which is reasonable for vehicle that lasted 10 years.