Class 2B Before Class 3 is a MUST !

[Ken]

I concluded that the best way to prevent more riders from from being knock down and to prevent more car drivers to knock down the 2 wheels is to pass a law that who ever want to take Class 3 license, is to take Class 2B first.

Upon completion, they will be eligible to take Class 3 without waiting for a year.

 

From the feedback i get so far, all road users who had ride before driving, is a more complete road user as they can understand the different characteristics of the different types of other road users better.

 

Thus, they are able to drive and ride with more cautious and less accidents prone.

 

By targeting a specific group of road users or carry out strict laws to prevent road users from doing wrongs is of no use, as we can see that despite of seeing the chart of road accident from declining, it shoots up.

 

We all know that with more and more road users, more and more accidents is happening in recent years. To make sure that everyone will be able to play their part well as a good road user, they must be equip with the correct knowledge and the understanding of the road.

 

Once a person get a license, he or she is equip with the neccessary knowledge, but understanding of the road?

 

Why the need to understand the road?

To understand the characteristics of the various road users.

Because, you r not the only person using the road, and not the only type of vehicle.

Thus, it is neccessary to equip the road user with the understanding of the road.

As sg roads is mainly consisting of motorbikes and cars, it is for the best interest to most road users to be equip with the understanding of the character of this 2 type of road user.

 

And why Class 3 before Class 2B?

As Class 3(Car) is more safer, it is of logical thinking that the road user must first took up Class 2B.

If one took up Class 3 first and without the understanding of the Class 2B, it is highly possible to knock into a Class 2B. which is the current problems now.

 

But if one took up Class 2B first, those Class 3 will be able to keep a lookout for them as they had already considered upgraded with a more in depth level of understanding of the Class 2B.

[duane_cartman]

i agree with u on that. i myself ride n drive n i tend 2 look out more 4 bikers when driving, maybe the driving centres could come up with a package so that not so expensive

[hoMeLEsS2]

its not practical to force everyone to get a 2B licnese before a Class 3...however i think they should at least try to add another theory teaching more from the bike perspective

[jkaiser]

Originally posted by hoMeLEsS2@May 25 2004, 11:29 PM

its not practical to force everyone to get a 2B licnese before a Class 3...however i think they should at least try to add another theory teaching more from the bike perspective

mabbe let them play bike simulator? or get instructor to pillion them...go ard circuit..weave abit...do fig 8

[ahwing]

hmmz...

i agree with u tt drivers become more aware of the road once they ride...

i myself got my class 3 first...and honestly...i wasn't aware of my surroundings then...but after getting my 2b and riding...i tend to drive/ride being more cautious of my surroundings as well as other road users especially bikes...

 

but i guess that...itz juz not practical for a person to get his 2b before his class 3...

i feel that...whilst learning...and whilst actually riding on road...is a big difference...

so even if itz a must to get 2b before 3...maybe makes a slight difference onli...

coz they wun be bothered to ride on the road...

[rAjOaNa]

I can understand the fustrtation of bikers going through all these pain.

But lets be practical?

Why mus take bike liecence?

No offences here, i think bikes are not for extremely soft or faint hearted ppl.

Most ladies those u see learning cars and even some guys they are actually scared of riding bikes or even being pillion.

If its made compulsory to do 2B b4 3....i think u will have lesser class 3 holders.

Some will just settle down with a 2B bike for transport, some no more $$ to continue with class 3.

I have 3 friends who i know only have class 3. They are safe drivers, look out for riders, n are not road bullies and they have good road awareness.

 

To conclude i would say its selfish of us riders to think this way. We are all very concerned abt our safty but instead can't those ppl who endanger us be brought to justic and for new drivers to be made to have more road awareness so that everyone would have a safe and enjoyable experience on the road.

[Guest sohst]

why not made class 3 like bike licence, just have to go thru the same routine. LTA can make bikers take to these tests, they also can do it to those who wants to drive.

 

class 3b == can drive up to 1000 cc engine capacity car.

class 3a == from 1001 - 1600 cc engine capacity car.

class 3 == greater then 1601 cc engine capacity car.

 

80% of sever accidents r cause by those P plate drivers, like the one drove thru the MRT track n give excuses like avoiding dog or some kind of animals, many times passby there never seen a dog or animal except birds.

 

so by the time, these class 3b licence holders graduated to class 3a will have more than a year of driving experiences. instead of now passed n straight away drive a 2.4 litre merc.

 

[StingRhea]

i feel that classification on car capacity is better~ as etiquette is hard to instill so drivers. eveeryday without fail i can mee tup with eat least 2 drivers changing lane without checking blindspot on each direction from my home to school.

[Ken]

sohst, hey, ur idea is good!~

guess what will happen for an EVO7 with P-plate?

[Guest sohst]

Originally posted by sohst@May 26 2004, 10:28 PM

why not made class 3 like bike licence, just have to go thru the same routine. LTA can make bikers take to these tests, they also can do it to those who wants to drive.

 

class 3b == can drive up to 1000 cc engine capacity car.

class 3a == from 1001 - 1600 cc engine capacity car.

class 3 == greater then 1601 cc engine capacity car.

so the question now is how to make LTA to incorporate this proposal ?

 

does anyone know how to do it?

 

does anyone have connections with 'mah bow tan', it will be quicker than going thru red tape procedures.

 

as long as he (mah bow tan) say do it, LTA will jump to implement the rulings.

 

LOL

[slowrider]

Driving and riding on the road has got nothing to do with which class of license you obtain first or how many classes of license you have obtained.

 

It is the RIGHT ATTITUDE you must excercise when you are ON THE ROAD.

 

When you are handling different type of vehicles your attitude in the safe use of THAT type of vehicle should be accordingly be moderated during it's use.

 

This is what really matters!

[Guest sohst]

Originally posted by slowrider@May 27 2004, 10:08 AM

Driving and riding on the road has got nothing to do with which class of license you obtain first or how many classes of license you have obtained.

 

It is the RIGHT ATTITUDE you must excercise when you are ON THE ROAD.

 

When you are handling different type of vehicles your attitude in the safe use of THAT type of vehicle should be accordingly be moderated during it's use.

 

This is what really matters!

how to have the right attitiude?

 

not everyone have mind like yours n can think straight to be courteous.

 

maybe in a small town in the USA, they do tat cos if someone want to cross the road they stop 4 u to cross. tat wat happen went i was touring in USA but not in NY or LA, drivers r very very aggressive.

 

likewise in Singapore drivers r very impatient n they don't have the right attitude behaviour but they have 'MY RIGHT WAY' attitude. They will tailgate, horn u even if u r travelling within speed limits or traffic light just turn green, cut in front of u without signalling, wat else...n over take on the left side (slow lane)...n many more if u asked others.

 

lastly how do u instill the right attitude to arrogant drivers, not everyone r like u with the right attitude. BUT we thank god tat there is one good rider/driver on the road.

 

BLESS U !!

[siaoliao]

Originally posted by sohst@May 26 2004, 10:28 PM

why not made class 3 like bike licence, just have to go thru the same routine. LTA can make bikers take to these tests, they also can do it to those who wants to drive.

 

class 3b == can drive up to 1000 cc engine capacity car.

class 3a == from 1001 - 1600 cc engine capacity car.

class 3 == greater then 1601 cc engine capacity car.

 

80% of sever accidents r cause by those P plate drivers, like the one drove thru the MRT track n give excuses like avoiding dog or some kind of animals, many times passby there never seen a dog or animal except birds.

 

so by the time, these class 3b licence holders graduated to class 3a will have more than a year of driving experiences. instead of now passed n straight away drive a 2.4 litre merc.

 

But imagine if the car of your dreams is a 2litre camry, you will either have to wait 3yrs to buy it or risk losing a lot of money on driving other cars for just a year and then selling them. as we all know, first yr depreciation for cars are the highest, is anyone willing to lose 20-30k for a car? dun think so. if theywere to settle for 2nd hand, then choices are limited, and u will never know if u bought a lemon.

 

there are many other factors to consider also, someone might need a big car for large families and so on, or need a licence for work. it does not make sense to spend so much to be able to drive a 2litre car.

 

its a good idea in some ways, but i guess its just too impractical to apply in real life.

[Guest sohst]

Originally posted by siaoliao@May 27 2004, 11:19 AM

But imagine if the car of your dreams is a 2litre camry, you will either have to wait 3yrs to buy it or risk losing a lot of money on driving other cars for just a year and then selling them. as we all know, first yr depreciation for cars are the highest, is anyone willing to lose 20-30k for a car? dun think so. if theywere to settle for 2nd hand, then choices are limited, and u will never know if u bought a lemon.

 

there are many other factors to consider also, someone might need a big car for large families and so on, or need a licence for work. it does not make sense to spend so much to be able to drive a 2litre car.

 

its a good idea in some ways, but i guess its just too impractical to apply in real life.

so wat's the different?

 

just carry on dreaming n bikers have to wait until he/she get class 2 too.

 

if car r expensive then ride a bike, otherwise take MRT & buses. LOL

[Ken]

Originally posted by siaoliao@May 27 2004, 11:19 AM

But imagine if the car of your dreams is a 2litre camry, you will either have to wait 3yrs to buy it or risk losing a lot of money on driving other cars for just a year and then selling them. as we all know, first yr depreciation for cars are the highest, is anyone willing to lose 20-30k for a car? dun think so. if theywere to settle for 2nd hand, then choices are limited, and u will never know if u bought a lemon.

 

there are many other factors to consider also, someone might need a big car for large families and so on, or need a licence for work. it does not make sense to spend so much to be able to drive a 2litre car.

 

its a good idea in some ways, but i guess its just too impractical to apply in real life.

Think of me saying this message in a low and soft tone with no keys like niam kian.

 

1000cc car oso can have 5 person inside, not neccessary must be 2L car then can take 5 people in a car bah.

 

if the reason for breaking the motorcycle license into 3 categories is to enable a person to have enough experience before riding a bigger cc bike is afraid that he might buang himself if riding a big cc bike too soon, then this reason is totally applicable on the car license too, in fact, its more disasterous.

 

When a rider did get into an accident, how often is that he will create a fatal impact on others?

when a driver did get into an accident, how many fatal cases can it inflicted?

see the difference?

 

if the mindset of the license system is set, based on protecting the rider or driver himself, then i think that it is time to change it to protecting the other road users.

 

so, can we conclude that the drivers can inflict a bigger damage to other road users?

 

if this is the case, to be able to operate a more dangerous vehicle which is the car, shouldn't they in the first place, learn how to operate and understand the characteristics of a more fragile vehicle so that when they upgrade to a more dangerous vehicle, they will know how to prevent themself from hitting the fragile vehicles?

as from the feedback from so many people that when one ride before they drive, they are a more complete road user.

[siaoliao]

Originally posted by Ken@May 27 2004, 01:17 PM

Think of me saying this message in a low and soft tone with no keys like niam kian.

 

1000cc car oso can have 5 person inside, not neccessary must be 2L car then can take 5 people in a car bah.

 

if the reason for breaking the motorcycle license into 3 categories is to enable a person to have enough experience before riding a bigger cc bike is afraid that he might buang himself if riding a big cc bike too soon, then this reason is totally applicable on the car license too, in fact, its more disasterous.

 

When a rider did get into an accident, how often is that he will create a fatal impact on others?

when a driver did get into an accident, how many fatal cases can it inflicted?

see the difference?

 

if the mindset of the license system is set, based on protecting the rider or driver himself, then i think that it is time to change it to protecting the other road users.

 

so, can we conclude that the drivers can inflict a bigger damage to other road users?

 

if this is the case, to be able to operate a more dangerous vehicle which is the car, shouldn't they in the first place, learn how to operate and understand the characteristics of a more fragile vehicle so that when they upgrade to a more dangerous vehicle, they will know how to prevent themself from hitting the fragile vehicles?

as from the feedback from so many people that when one ride before they drive, they are a more complete road user.

 

 

 

the fact is a 800cc car can also kill someone if driven recklessly, so shld we ban cars altogether?

 

i am not convinced that it works, thus my concerns. true, there are many reckless wrxs out there, but that does not equate with punishing many pple who truly want to own their dream car. a car is much more expensive than a bike, much much more, so we cant compare it to the bike classification system.

the fact is however, that many 2b bikers still ride recklessly, which proves the pt that the 2b 2a 2 system is necessary, but how many car related accidents are due to reckless ferraris, we do not know.

 

any car is capable of causing more damage than a bike, whether it is 1cc or 10000cc, simply due to its size. recklessness is due to driver attitude, not engine size. 2b system is to protect the rider, secondary is to protect other road users. i do not see the plan protecting other rd users to a much higher degree, other than having more cars that struggle to overtake.

 

if the considerations are met however, the plan might be a gd one. lets hope more ideas can be put forth to make the roads safer for everyone...

 

 

Robin

[mechwira]

the fact is however, that many 2b bikers still ride recklessly, which proves the pt that the 2b 2a 2 system is necessary.....

 

 

recklessness is due to driver attitude, not engine size. 2b system is to protect the rider, secondary is to protect other road users.  i do not see your plan protecting other rd users to a much higher degree, other than having more cars that struggle to overtake.

 

with regards to safety considerations for a staggered licensing system, i feel that you are contradicting yourself. assuming a staggered system is implemented and followed, then for both bikes and cars, either it is safer to limit riders/drivers to lower capacities or it is not.

 

if you claim that "recklessness is due to driver attitude, not engine size", then surely this argument applies to riders as well. i do not see how you can make this claim in the same breath as "many 2b bikers still ride recklessly, which proves the point that the 2b 2a 2 system is necessary". and if you say that a staggered class 3 system will do little other than to have more cars that struggle to overtake, then won't it also be the case that today on the roads the 2b 2a 2 system is not doing anything more than making riders pull throttle harder to overtake?

 

HOWEVER, with regards to the implementation of a staggered Class 3 system, i find myself hard pressed to argue against the notion that people will not follow such a system due to financial considerations. in my other topic in this channel, i stressed that today's riders bypass the 2A license, thus the purpose of the 2A license has failed. if riders are willing to wait out their 2A and bypass, then surely such a system will also result in drivers bypassing the staggered system due to even greater financial concerns. you can implement it, but if nobody follows it (like 2A), then it won't work.

 

on a sidenote, i also raised the issue of staggered class 3 system in my other topic. the third paragraph of this post is a recent revelation to me after reading through this thread, occurring after my posts in the other topic concerning this issue.

[siaoliao]

Originally posted by mechwira@May 27 2004, 10:29 PM

with regards to safety considerations for a staggered licensing system, i feel that you are contradicting yourself. assuming a staggered system is implemented and followed, then for both bikes and cars, either it is safer to limit riders/drivers to lower capacities or it is not.

 

if you claim that "recklessness is due to driver attitude, not engine size", then surely this argument applies to riders as well. i do not see how you can make this claim in the same breath as "many 2b bikers still ride recklessly, which proves the point that the 2b 2a 2 system is necessary". and if you say that a staggered class 3 system will do little other than to have more cars that struggle to overtake, then won't it also be the case that today on the roads the 2b 2a 2 system is not doing anything more than making riders pull throttle harder to overtake?

 

HOWEVER, with regards to the implementation of a staggered Class 3 system, i find myself hard pressed to argue against the notion that people will not follow such a system due to financial considerations. in my other topic in this channel, i stressed that today's riders bypass the 2A license, thus the purpose of the 2A license has failed. if riders are willing to wait out their 2A and bypass, then surely such a system will also result in drivers bypassing the staggered system due to even greater financial concerns. you can implement it, but if nobody follows it (like 2A), then it won't work.

 

on a sidenote, i also raised the issue of staggered class 3 system in my other topic. the third paragraph of this post is a recent revelation to me after reading through this thread, occurring after my posts in the other topic concerning this issue.

my gist is missed...

 

when i said the 2b 2a 2 system is necessary, i meant that it is useful to safeguard RIDER safety, and not other users, which at most is a secondary issue. at any stage of this system, it is still rider attitude that matters...

 

a car however, protects a driver much more than a rider at the same speed, which thus renders the class system useless in increasing safety for other users, which is the issue of this topic, but rather juz increases the safety of the driver. at any stage, it is still driver attitude that is of consequence to other users.

 

again i stress that i am not opposed to the merits of the mentioned proposal, which i agree, but just that the negating factors are too large to justify, in my opinion, such a drastic move. if everyone here thinks that i am wrong, i sincerely accept any criticisms and will refrain from reiterating the abovementioned pts anymore. i have had my say, this reply is to simply address any misunderstandings, and not begin an argument.

 

mechwira, i wish u all the best in pushing for the policy.

[mechwira]

when i said the 2b 2a 2 system is necessary, i meant that it is useful to safeguard RIDER safety, and not other users, which at most is a secondary issue. at any stage of this system, it is still rider attitude that matters...

 

a car however, protects a driver much more than a rider at the same speed, which thus renders the class system useless in increasing safety for other users, which is the issue of this topic, but rather juz increases the safety of the driver. at any stage, it is still driver attitude that is of consequence to other users.

 

then i guess its all a misunderstanding. i suppose we can all agree if i put it in perspective as follows:

 

A driver is safe inside his car, and implementing a staggered class 3 system might not significantly increase his safety.

 

People outside the car are less safe as compared to if it were a bike, so a staggered class 3 system could possibly (debatable) improve the safety of others.

 

A rider is not safe on his bike, therefore a staggered system (that is followed) to limit capacities might increase his safety.

 

i will not argue about whether rider/driver safety is more important, or whether passer-by safety is more important. my opinion is they are both important.

 

thanx for your well wishes.

[Ken]

Hi, siaoliao,

is it the first sentence which describe my tone which triggered the thought of i m playing big.

if yes, i m sorry to had cause this resentment on you.

The reason i describe my tone is becos there's just too many flaming wars in this forum and some people might just pass a remark which is in a joking tone, but others might read it in a mocking tone and thus triggering all the sparkplugs.

Thought that describing my tone as no feelings might work but seems like it backfired.

 

Let's make this topic a healthy thread with everyone opening up their mind to other's opinions and suggestions as there's no right or wrong but the appropriate level.

 

What i mean is the fact that when a person ride before he drive, they are a more complete road user( other than chiongsters ).

Agreed?

So my suggestion is that if there's anyone in future who like to take a class 3 license, it is best to take up a class 2B course so that they understand the characteristics of bikes more.

And why?

Is because, since driving a car is safer, wouldn't it be more appropriate that they should take care and keep a lookout on the more fragile vehicles?

Sure we got many experiences of "hey, how come this car like that drive 1..."

So next time when u drive, u will take note of that.

This is my thinking of creating a road more safer for the users.

 

About the staggering class 3 system, actually, i believe that the authorities had consider this system before.

But Staggering Class 3 system will be a burden to many as cars is more expensive ( even the 2nd hand cars ) and it is quite impossible for the majorities to keep changing cars like bikes.

As even our Mr Lee warned us to be careful in not becoming a car slave due to incurring losses on sales and resales. So thus, creating the staggering system on the Class 3 is hugely restricted by this budget factor.

This is no doubt a good suggestion, but i personally sees the drawback of be a bit big for many.

 

I think that the current motorcycle system is more of safe guarding the road user himself which the authorities might thought that they are more fragile thus creating the staggering system in the motorcycle category.

And to me, the class 3 system is not in staggering system is becos the authorities might thought that they are more safe in the car so no need the staggering system to safe guard themselves.

I believe that the current system on our license is based on safe guarding the road user himself.

To me, it had achieve its own objectives, but on the other hand, it had neglect the road user of a more powerful vehicle which is the car, as if the person operating a more powerful vehicle, a higher responsibility is to be shoulder by the operators.

And for the operators who is the drivers to take on a bigger responsibilities, they must be equip with more knowledge and greater understanding of the road rite?

And to achieve that, one of a very good way is to ride before u drive.

Agreed?

 

But there is a down side on my suggestion.

As for many, riding is almost impossible for them, i mean physically.

 

Its true that many riders still ride recklessly.

So if they do buang while riding recklessly, they only got themselves to blame. i wont pity them too.

But if a driver do drive reckless, they might and most of the time cause more damages and often dragging other road user into agony.

Although riders will cause damages but the seviality(dun noe how to spell) is often a lesser degree than that of drivers.

Thus i think that the drivers should shoulder more responsibility.

Not that i m biased, i m a driver too.

 

Ask me why should the drivers take up more responsibilities?

Not fair rite?

The world is never fair.

Just like why should the boss(car?) take up the rap of a careless mistake by their employee(bikes?).

 

But, in the end, it is still the attitude that is the cure for the problems we faced in sg road presently.

 

I stress that no hidden or belittering meaning is in my message.

 

Let us all be more open to new ideas and suggestions to make our road a safer place for everyone.

(Although we knew that no matter what we tok here is of not much used, but let's just keep trying.

Sing with me,".....I believe in Miracles....." By 2 "Busties")

 

Peace.

[ahwing]

quoting Ken...

 

yeah....i guess wat u said is much correct...

 

but no one seems to point out that...the staggered system for Class 2...

in my opinion...itz more for a rider to get use to riding an "easier" to control bike, before advancing to a stronger or bigger machine. when we first attained our 2B...did u ever try mounting a Class 2 bike?? did u feel as if u cud control such a machine??

 

for cars, the size of the vehicle doesn't concern itz engine capacity...but for motorcycles, it seems that the higher the 'cc', the bigger the bike.

thus, a staggered car system would be totally outta qns...

 

i'm not sure if i'm here...abit side-track...

but anyway....dun u feel that...the mindet of us riders is also wrong....??

i feel that...when we get our 2b licence...we ride a 2b bike...which satisfies the need of transport. in terms of speed, i'm sure most 2b bikes can hit the speed limit easily..so why a bigger bike?? in my opinion...itz coz we want a more powerful, faster bike. which is sorta redundent right? i'm not sure bout the bike having more safety measures or itz safer to ride a 2a/2 bike.

 

back to the main point,

juz some....alternative thoughts on having drivers take 2b before taking class 3...

parent views, i believe there are lotsa parents out there who do not support the idea of their children riding, coz they believe a car is safer etc etc...by implementing the 2b then 3 system, wouldn't tt start off more problems...???

 

i feel that....the problem with obtaining a driver's licence...is more towards the way the learner is taught...

 

when i was learning how to drive, i was taught...."check blindspot"...why?? coz if u dun check, will get demerit points..."check mirror before braking"...why?? coz if u dun check...will get demerit points...

i feel that the instructors are like...teaching us how to pass the test...and not on road safety and awareness...

perhaps the attitude of drivers shud start from the root...where learners start driving...

 

learning how to drive shud be of a stricter policy...i'm sure all of us noticed the learner giggling it off when he or she makes a mistake, jam brake...stall engine... turn never check blindspot..."sorrie sorrie..forgot..." *giggles*...when the learner makes a wide turn...almost hitting another vehicle, *sticks out tongue*...

stuff like this isn't common...

yes learning to drive shud be enjoyable, but definately not less strict....

[siaoliao]

to ken...

 

sorry if i misunderstood your intentions, have edited my posts to keep out the emotions liao, sorry for that...

 

i can see where u are coming from, lets hope more drivers come here and take a look and understand the plight of motorists...

[madman]

how to get the right attitude

 

1) send them back to driving school

 

2) send them back to driving school and

 

3) send them back to driving school !!!

 

I tell you, after 10 yrs riding on the road, I also become quite careless.

Only after I went back to driving school to take other classes, then I realised how many things I have overlooked. So, the best way is to send them back to driving school.

[Ken]

No problem siaoliao.

but some people is just too arrogant by nature to be have the rite attitude on the road... just hope that they do not get others into trouble.

 

recently, whenever i saw drivers using hp while driving, i will horn them and gesture to tell them to stop it. but after i went off, who noes what they do.

 

anyone noes what the penalty if they are caught using hp or both hands not on wheels?

[Tyrian]

My dream bike is a harly davidson which is at least 1000cc and yet i have to wait for 2 years upon passing my 2b den i can get it provided i go for my class 2a and class 2...

 

My dream car is a wrx but i juz need to pass my licence to get it...

 

Which is more dangerous??