Seller cheated. Plz help

[no7boy]

Hi all

 

I need all your help advise me on the issues.

 

I bought a 2nd hand bike from another guy. We agreed on the price, since the bike is on COI, I agreed to pay in full to him, then he just settle with his shop.

When we both going to LTA to do the ownership transferring. The officer said the bike is locked coz COI or something is not settled down yet. Need to pay the shop to get it unlock. So the transferring cannot be done.

Then later, I went home, he said, just transfer the money first so that he can settle with the shop. Then he will go to lta to do the transferring alone, i no need to come.

Trust him, i transfer the money. Seeing he's a nice guy. Also, I'm busy working and cannot come down with him to lta on week days.

Then following day, he said, cannot do the transfer, coz still need to pay 1k+ fee for the bank/shop coz of late payment, still COI settled all already. Then, he said, he will add me as 2nd rider, then slowly pay off the debt, when done, then he'll do the transferring.

 

Plz advise what should i do now.

 

Thanks a lot.

[xavw]

Ask him to return you your money first? Then look for another bike to buy.

What sort of black & white documents do you have of this transaction?

[tianyou]

I think this guy is a cheater.he should know all this.you should try to ask him to pay back the money as soon as possible.if he can't,I think even you go police.not much help also.drag one to two years for the case.then maybe ask him gO jail for 2 weeks.

[tianyou]

Fighting a civil case like this is not worth and your time.that is the fact.no much protection for buyer.he definitely dun have money to pay.even add as second rider,u check with the bike shop whether need to pay the loan if first rider cannot pay.otherwise,u pay even more.

[no7boy]

hi.

thanks for all your help. he said spent all money to pay installment. all I got is sms message btw me and him and our agreement, also photo of his ic, apparently in camp, serving ns. probably can get witness is the lta officer when both of us came down to do the transfering.

to make it even worse, he said he's going to prison next 2 weeks. I just ride first, when he's out, he'll do the transfering.

[tianyou]

Make sure he add u as second rider. It a big offense riding without insurance.take care.

[xavw]

sms message is enough to lodge police report. and the LTA officer, you better don't assume.

this guy is not trustworthy, don't believe his word.

[BlackDawn]

Another perfect example why COI is a bad deal

[tianyou]

I think next time carry the cash on the hand, once transfer ownership is completed, hand in the cash.

[no7boy]

Yes, definitely. Thing is, we both go to LTA, then things like that happened. I put my trust wrongly.

 

Just now, he said, will add me as 2nd rider, but need me to cancel the my current insurance which I purchased 2 days ago. He said cannot use 2 insurance policy on the same bike, i must use his, then later july expires, can extend under my name. Is it possible ?

 

Desperately, even if I loan him another 1k, to help him pay off the debt and force him to do the ownership transfer, do you know how to make sure he will pay it back ? Like ask him to sign some legal document or something ?

 

Thanks for all your help.

[tianyou]

For the insurance, why do you buy when you are not the owner of the bike.

 

For your second question, IOU cannot help you get back the loan money.If he dun give you return, it is still consider as civil case, u will to get a lawyer which is much even expensive.Secondly, you IOU is no valid.Their is nothing u can take from him.ANy mortages?Even so, i reckon it is not legal as you are not entitled to lend money.If you do that, it is more toward goodwill.

[tianyou]

Police will not handle this case unless there are a lot of same cheated cases and also depend on the inspector.Most of them will not take up this case.

[tianyou]

No need to find MP too, they can only help to write letter. Cases like this, they ask you to queue for free consulation with the lawyer.And in the end, lawyer say no worth it, if you pay, they can sue till he go jail.

 

Now the Best thing, you go to his bikeshop and deal with the bikeshop directly.1K pay to them.They will be more willing to do that.As now you are the one doing the COI instead ofhim.

[no7boy]

Thanks tianyou.

 

I buy insurance coz it's needed for bike ownership transferring. Only after we both go LTA, then they said, the bike is blocked, coz haven't paid COI in full. Then problem comes.

 

The thing is, I already sent him the money, which he's supposed to pay the COI , and he said he did. I asked for receipt but he ignored.

So if I go to bike shop , pay 1K, then the bike is unlocked. Then what if he still dont want to do the transfering ? And that's like adding 1k cost to the bike. zzzz

So, government wont do anything to help me in this case, right ?

Headache !

[no7boy]

double post

[SparkerS1]

he said spent all money to pay installment.

Did u asked the bike shop in person?? He might have lied to u.

Another perfect example why COI is a bad deal

It's not about COI, the buyer gave the money to the seller who will then clear the exsisting installments.

but now the problem is both seller and buyer did not witness the payment of the installments together thus the seller might have lied his way through.

I think next time carry the cash on the hand, once transfer ownership is completed, hand in the cash.

this should be the way.

 

in a case when exsisting installments to be cleared, buyer n seller both must go down the shop and witness the whole process. Prior to tat, buyer should arrange wif bike shop to untag the bike for transfer at LTA. thereafter both can proceed down to LTA and do the transfer.

Just now, he said, will add me as 2nd rider, but need me to cancel the my current insurance which I purchased 2 days ago. He said cannot use 2 insurance policy on the same bike, i must use his, then later july expires, can extend under my name.

is it he putting u as sub-rider under his insuance?

 

btw wat bike u getting from him anyway? how much the amount?

 

Pls go to the bike shop to sort out the whole incident, if its a case of cheating, pls report to the police.

For the insurance, why do you buy when you are not the owner of the bike.

the buyer needs to have a valid insurance for the bike as required by LTA when doing the transferring.

[tianyou]

there is no way you can ask you vomit the 1k out.

When you go to his bike shop, ask the bike shop whether can transfer the ownership to you.dun anyhow give money.If it is a repatuable bikeshop, ask for their advice.At least, that u can go to case unit.

Dun bother pay that guy.

 

Yes, government will not help you.They will say this is no my department matter, i help you write a letter.

[LTC]

No need to find MP too, they can only help to write letter. Cases like this, they ask you to queue for free consulation with the lawyer.And in the end, lawyer say no worth it, if you pay, they can sue till he go jail.

 

Now the Best thing, you go to his bikeshop and deal with the bikeshop directly.1K pay to them.They will be more willing to do that.As now you are the one doing the COI instead ofhim.

 

Go to bikeshop to pay another 1K to deal?

In the 1st place why will the bike shop do that? Kena legalities issue?

Did the previous owner shop gave u proof of settling the instalment?

U cannot just go to the bike shop and just tell them what is as stated here.

As far as the bike shop is concerned the bike under Hire Purchase black and white. They can't just transfer just based on what u go and tell there.

Gather ur facts and evidence. Report to the Police.

If the Police do not take up the case due to breach of agreement instead of cheating, U still can try the small claims and tribunal court to claim back the amount from the SOB and again based on evidence. If the court rule in ur favour, they will exercise of ur behalf and order for the SOB to pay back.

The IOU will not be useful with the Police or the MP. They are not debt collectors.

The IOU may however be good if ur getting a lawyer for ur civil case to claim back ur monies but of course, there's no guarantee.

Wat is the background u know about this SOB?

He's going to Prison for wat? Is he really going to Prison or just another of his BS.

U become he's second rider? Did he collect a lot of summons or a lot of trouble with regards to the bike. In his absence will u become liable?

Will u be able to get back wat is urs before he goes to Prison?

 

When a SOB wants to cheat u, of cos he has to wayang and be nice to u. If not how to cheat u.

Money transaction should always be done proper and not just based on trust.

COI should be done with the involvement of the bike shop.

Under Hire and Purchase, I dun think the rider has the right to do the transfer at LTA. That's why ur were rejected by LTA. That SOB was playing u.

If non owner rider able to do that then bikeshop jialat liao...

If he had wanted to excute the COI and do the transfer, he should have brought u to the bike shop.

[no7boy]

Thanks for all the response. It's very helpful. I wish I could read all this before buying.

 

He said first time selling, doesn't know this doesnt know that.

He said going to prison next week, for beating ppl. But I doubt that. Coz later he said cannot ride the bike since his license is revoked. Seriously, if he caused accident and goes to prison for that, even if i get the bike, would there's any problem with that. And if I can't settle the ownership transferring, even if as 2nd rider, would there be a ton of trouble.

I will contact the bikeshop tmr. Is there anyway to know which bikeshop given the plate number only in case I ask him and he wont tell.

 

Thanks again for all the help guys.

[LTC]

no7boy,

 

U have to note that even if the Police takes up ur case for cheating and proceeds to charge the SOB for "Cheating" and successfully prosecute the SOB for it, it does not mean the bike will go to u.

If the bike still has outstanding instalments with the bike shop. The bike shop will repossess the bike as the SOB default payment.

Then u have to engage a lawyer to file a claim for the bike. Most likely the if the claim goes to court, it will be up to the court to decide who gets the ownership of the bike or how the bike should be dealt with.

Troublesome process but that's roughly how it may be.

 

Sec 415 of the Penal Code (Cheating):

Whoever, by deceiving any person, whether or not such deception was the sole or main inducement, fraudulently or dishonestly induces the person so deceived to deliver any property to any person, or to consent that any person shall retain any property, or intentionally induces the person so deceived to do or omit to do anything which he would not do or omit to do if he were not so deceived, and which act or omission causes or is likely to cause damage or harm to any person in body, mind, reputation or property, is said to “cheat”.

 

417. Whoever cheats shall be punished with imprisonment for a term which may extend to 3 years, or with fine, or with both.

[LTC]

Thanks for all the response. It's very helpful. I wish I could read all this before buying.

 

He said first time selling, doesn't know this doesnt know that.

He said going to prison next week, for beating ppl. But I doubt that. Coz later he said cannot ride the bike since his license is revoked. Seriously, if he caused accident and goes to prison for that, even if i get the bike, would there's any problem with that. And if I can't settle the ownership transferring, even if as 2nd rider, would there be a ton of trouble.

I will contact the bikeshop tmr. Is there anyway to know which bikeshop given the plate number only in case I ask him and he wont tell.

 

Thanks again for all the help guys.

 

From the facts so far, legally ur not the owner. Goodluck in ur pursuit.

*If the SOB has an outstanding case with the Police, the Police may build up another case with the previous case. SOB may not go to jail so soon as all cases must be compiled and to be vetted by the Attorney General Chambers.

[cougar]

Have he signed the letter of transfer and hand over his IC? If you dont settle before he goes prison, you will not gain access to his ic neither will anybody, because his ic will be locked up in prison like him.

 

 

The bike still is under his name. Bikeshop also stuck. YOur best bet is tell the bikeshop that this rider is going prison, maybe they in their own interest, will help you do a quickly transfer, chase for his ic and settle it fast. Else forget it liao. Or they can repossess the bike if he really outstanding, and seek ownership of the bike since he is imprison. I think bikeshop can do that, as long as they are the hire purchase 1st party owner over the hirer.

[tianyou]

You need to convince th police if you want bring this case to them, i reckon they ask you to find a lawyer first.

(Which is it impossible, i had mentioned lawyers fee is not few hundred dollars, civil case may need to go courts)

 

Then you try to say what LTC say to you.Sec penal of 415.See what is their response.The flow is like this, you go to NPP and report cheating, after your statment, the police in the post will see the first round whether that they can take the case.If yes, they call their inspector on the spot for further approvel.Once acknowlegde, then your case will be valid and that guy will kena after investiagations if he volidate the laws

[LTC]

You need to convince th police if you want bring this case to them, i reckon they ask you to find a lawyer first.

(Which is it impossible, i had mentioned lawyers fee is not few hundred dollars, civil case may need to go courts)

 

Then you try to say what LTC say to you.Sec penal of 415.See what is their response.The flow is like this, you go to NPP and report cheating, after your statment, the police in the post will see the first round whether that they can take the case.If yes, they call their inspector on the spot for further approvel.Once acknowlegde, then your case will be valid and that guy will kena after investiagations if he volidate the laws

 

The reason why I quoted the section 415 of the Penal Code is for TS reference. Is he able to relate his experience to that section of the Penal Code which is a Criminal Offence. As any person who makes a Police report needs to provide facts pertaining to the incident. If the facts disclose an offence, the duty officer under the Criminal Procedure Code then may be able to exercise his authority to investigate into the matter. Therefore it is very important for TS to gather his facts and evidence to present to the Police if he wishes to make a Police report. The making of a Police report can be hassle as it involves time and sometime when the expectation is too high and demands are not met, the person who made the Police report will form a negative impression. Dun make a Police report with the mentality of I report I win. It's based on facts and evidence for investigation and prosecution. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[tianyou]

The reason why I quoted the section 415 of the Penal Code is for TS reference. Is he able to relate his experience to that section of the Penal Code which is a Criminal Offence. As any person who makes a Police report needs to provide facts pertaining to the incident. If the facts disclose an offence, the duty officer under the Criminal Procedure Code then may be able to exercise his authority to investigate into the matter. Therefore it is very important for TS to gather his facts and evidence to present to the Police if he wishes to make a Police report. The making of a Police report can be hassle as it involves time and sometime when the expectation is too high and demands are not met, the person who made the Police report will form a negative impression. Dun make a Police report with the mentality of I report I win. It's based on facts and evidence for investigation and prosecution. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I agree with you. Get the evdence and present to the Police and tried to file in the case. That is the idea way. That is provided the police and the duty inspector willingly take up this case as cheating section 415 or any section. Otherwise, it will treat it as civil case. Unless, there are lot of cases reporting to the same person.Yes, they will look into it. If not, try from bottom to the top level of the police force.It might help but waste your time.Utimately, you still will not get the money back but your time spend more.

 

these are just my view and the expriences i went through. That seller basically is a cheater.You and I know understand the situation, no7boy can go to make police report and if the case is able to file in.the outcome is he cant take the money and that cheater might go to jail for 2 weeks or more.