Association for Motorcyclist

[blurrblurr]

doesn't that sounds exactly like storm rider?

[KawBoy]

blurrblurr,

 

Nope.

 

Stormriders are different, they are a club. They do more group rides, charities and club meets.

 

The association I have in mind is aimed at changing the motorcycle environment, not focused on group outings but more on taking action on errant drivers to task, actioning on issues like getting outdated regulations dissolved, mediatating between business entities and bikers.

 

It will not be a club. The focus is on getting together to make changes, not getting together. There will probably be less meeting of members except on rides and events which will be rare.

[mechwira]

it all sounds fine and well, and i would love for such an association to be set up. but the problems i highlighted are still not possible to be resolved.

 

Who?

 

exactly who is going to form such an organization? u said it urself, an association set up by the industry players might be working more for their own self-interest rather than the interest of motorcyclists in general. but if not the industry players, then its left to us motorcyclists, or a govt-related body. that means either an established club, or the AAS.

 

How?

 

ur gonna need funding if its purely motorcyclists who set it up. but u wont be able to get things going if membership requires a fee, because motorcyclists wont pay for something that is not established; and it wont be established if we dun get funding. chicken and egg problem (which came first?).

 

i'm not trying to pessimistic, just realistic. honestly, i find no way out other than a small group voluntarily approaching the AAS and offering to work directly under them for an extension of their services for motorcyclists. as and when this 'extended department' becomes established, perhaps the next step can be taken in establishing an autonomous body. when this happens, after this 'extended department' becomes well-known and respected, perhaps motorcyclists will be willing to fork out membership fees.

[Easyrider_Bandit]

Originally posted by KawBoy@Sep 19 2004, 06:33 PM

Stormriders are different, they are a club. They do more group rides, charities and club meets.

Legally, both AAS and Stormriders are no different. Both are societies registered under the registry of societies.

 

But yes, functionally they are different. Bottom line, money talks. End of the day, the average driver will still be able to fork out more money than the average rider. You will need to have quite a few people willing to sacrifice time, effort and money for the sake of the bikes association.

 

The best way, I think is to have a "show of force" situation. There are many formal and informal riding clubs in singapore, perhaps there should be some collection of signatures from all these clubs, and then approach AAS?

 

Even then, there is no reason why AAS should accept riders, unless we are willing to pay car driver's memberships fees... otherwise they will get financially diluted.

 

BTW, I am not so sure about the taking action vs errant drivers part... if we rile up the AAS, and they decide to take action vs errant riders.... we will get flattened by the bad publicity. In singapore everything must be in moderation or risk getting smashed flat by incument powers.

[StingRhea]

End of the day, everyone wants it, but nobody will do it because the mindset is that somebody will do it. Wad to do~

[KawBoy]

mechwira,

 

Perhaps we should take one thing at a time, writing about this can and will go on forever. There's really no point in pursuing further if all there is is talk.

 

Getting a group together to run it and funding are small problems, easily overcome.

 

I doubt getting AAS to set up a motorcycle branch is feasible. If they had no motivation to set one up then there's really no point. A volunteer group is not right either, at the very least part time basis.

 

To ask again, if there was such an association setup, would you join?

 

Respect and awareness about a new association will take time to form. It's not necessary to have these to start. Whether these are present or not does not matter, not every biker will join anyway. The main issue is to get the right people who are spirited to get involved. There will be motorcyclists who do not bother and just wants to ride from home to work and that's fine. If a new association benefits them, all well and good too. Point is, there must be a group with direction to make changes happen.

 

Easyrider_Bandit,

 

I guess you have a good outline of what is about currently.

 

AAS is and will be car orientated. If AAS is demand driven to setup a bike branch, there is the question of motivation. Why should they do this and that for bikers? Membership is not a big problem, even fees can be negotiated.

 

Errant drivers abound as there are errant riders. It will be a negligent association or society that doesn't take action because of perceived fear of retribution be it from publicity, incumbent powers or whatever. The point is to get the facts straight and present your cases fairly. Besides, when it comes to publicity, 2 can play at the game.

 

Would you join a none AAS associated brand new motorcycle based association?

[mechwira]

Originally posted by KawBoy@Sep 21 2004, 03:07 PM

Getting a group together to run it and funding are small problems, easily overcome.

 

To ask again, if there was such an association setup, would you join?

sure, getting a group together to run it is a small problem. but no, i do not agree that funding is a small problem that is easily overcome. plus u mentioned this wont be voluntary but rather part time work basis. i believe funding is a big problem, even if it were voluntary.

 

to answer ur qn, if ur asking whether i'd pay to be a member of this hypothetical association as a motorcyclist myself, then no, i wouldn pay membership fees to a non govt or aas (or other established bodies) related association or society that just popped out of nowhere. however, i will pay to be a member if and when such an association establishes and proves itself. but my answer shd be no surprise: u admitted urself not every rider will join.

 

if ur asking if i'm willing to be one of these 'pioneers' to start this thing going, again no. no offence, but its just my personal opinion that its not gonna work out the way ur suggesting (but good luck to u if u do decide to do it this way, i disagree but i honestly hope it succeeds if u do it). having said that however, i must admit even if my suggestion about aas was taken up, i will still have misgivings about being the 'pioneers'. u have to admit this isn easy (even tho u suggest otherwise); i only do the little things that i can, like in my thread.

[KawBoy]

mechwira,

 

No offense taken no worries.

 

It never is easy.

 

What would make you want to join such an association then?

 

Perhaps you could provide input here?

[mechwira]

Originally posted by KawBoy@Sep 21 2004, 07:04 PM

mechwira,

 

No offense taken no worries.

 

It never is easy.

 

What would make you want to join such an association then?

 

Perhaps you could provide input here?

well actually i've already given all my personal opinions and i nothing else to say.

[Smart Bet]

Even though we all know its a good suggestion, and one that's way overdue, there's a reason why something like this is still not around. I'm definitely not the first one to think about it. And I'm sure KawBoy has had this idea in his head for some time, and probably, so do many others.

 

The bottom line is in general, have a selfish culture. There's always a "What's in it for me?", especially when money is involved. Sad but true...

 

The reason why I started this thread is to mainly just make everyone think "Why is something like this not done? It's so damn obvious!"

 

Starting this up would just be like any other business, except with different goals in mind.

 

Imagine, if we had the budget like say, the armed forces, we could spread our message all over the place. With proper marketing, it could even come across as "very established".

 

Already, the reputation of bikers in S'pore is very bad. And the constant TP bias don't make it any better.

 

The main issue is not to blacklist shops, not to go after other drivers, but TO PROMOTE AWARENESS AND MOTOCYCLISTS" SAFETY ON THE ROAD.

To have other drivers stop treating us like 2nd class road users and see that we are road tax payers and have every right to a safe journey as they do.

 

Something really needs to be done, but I do feel the odds are really stacked against us.

[KawBoy]

Smart Bet,

 

It's just hard to get the ball rolling.

 

In any case, what do you people look for in joining up an association?

 

Input please? Why would a motorcyclist want to join a motorcycle association?

 

mechwira,

 

Well apart from your personal opinions, can you say what would make you want to join a motorcycle association?

[mechwira]

Originally posted by KawBoy@Sep 22 2004, 11:40 AM

mechwira,

 

Well apart from your personal opinions, can you say what would make you want to join a motorcycle association?

are u asking wat would make me join as an ordinary member of this association, or wat would make me want to join the pioneers and actually set up this organization?

[KawBoy]

mechwira,

 

Both ways.

 

Let me know.

[rrr]

Here's a suggestion, ask Steve Chia our nominated MP to head this group n raise the aspects of concern in Parliament.If the MPs and Cabinet cannot influence agencies and stat boards then who can?

[KawBoy]

More suggestions anyone?

[mechwira]

Originally posted by KawBoy@Sep 23 2004, 02:26 PM

mechwira,

 

Both ways.

 

Let me know.

ordinary member

 

like i already said, i'd gladly pay membership fees and be a member if it were an established association, which has proven itself in actual cases, and has shown very clearly that yes indeed being a member benefits. in other words, an association which has already proven in past cases that it indeed works (or proves that it has strong relations to, or directly under, another association which is established and has proven itself in the same way, such as a govt body or aas); as opposed to an association which popped out of nowhere and only has promises to offer.

 

i think any normal rider would have the same sentiment.

 

pioneer

 

u gimme a few years, i'll be graduating soon, then gonna start some career somewhere, once everything stabilised u check back with me

 

but my own personal situation aside, i suppose my concern about funding and establishment need to be addressed. i mean, if all we have is a plan to get a group of interested pioneers, then register ourselves as a society.... and then what...? where to get funding, where to get support? i understand the 'one step at a time', but only one step of a huge staircase is visible right now.

 

if say we go aas (sorry if it sounds like i trying to insist that i am correct, that is not my intention; example only), and assuming they agree take us under their wing and give full support, then to a large degree, the problem of funding and support is reduced. we at least have a base, and we tumpang on their name we wont be 'nobodies' when we go about our activities, be it collecting funds or chasing after shops or mediations. but i concede that the points ppl have raised against this plan are quite valid. nothing is perefect.

[StingRhea]

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forum/index....showtopic=52722

 

Something like this where LTA is not increasing the amount of COES offered to m'cyclists aint gd too~

[KawBoy]

StingRhea,

 

The COE is driven by many factors and not increasing the COE is not LTA's fault.

 

It's a real long story...

 

mechwira,

 

When you mentioned benefits for ordinary members, what benefits exactly do you mean?

 

Any suggestions anyone?

[kianSV]

Stingrhea mentioned about England's bike association and the success they had. Although it is a different country, is it feasible to learn from them?

 

I believe it has a very active association and has done so much for the common motorbiker. They have promoted safety awareness, got more parking for bikes, liase with gahment, held charity events through organised rides and simply improve the image of biking.

 

I think for the common rider in SG, they are not so concerned with these issues. No tangible benefit, no talk.

[kirra55]

I went through teh whole thread. Read every piece several times, and it all fizzled out in the end. Not unusual, seen it plenty of times. Some observations of my own.

 

I have to agree with the comment about "Whats in it for me attitude'' Truth is, bugger all to start with, but in the median to lonegr term, it may make the difference between being able to ride, or sitting on the MRT.

 

I'm familiar with the AMA, forget them! Nice talk, lots of $$$$ but has become so big and political it really does not represent the mainstream of riders. Its like any group that outgrows its membership. It starts to focus on the elected and the employed staff. The same happens with many of the smaller associations that become professional lobby groups.

 

Same thought about AAS, their interest is in promoting and selling of cars. They are not about to promote riders anymore than they are goin to promote bicyclists, commuters or pedestrians. They do not exist for ALL transport users. They do now where their power base comes from, the car manufacturing ndustry. Joining them would not mean that riders would be heard. It would just add to the numbers of AAS membership.

 

The cost factor, why would it be exy? Not planning a major advertising campaign are you? Or want shiny badges for every member and a monolithic club house? Start up small, a list of members who are willing to form an association, a club. Not a big cost, a token amount, say Sg$10 for a year. Less than the cost of a beer at most clubs.

 

The idea is to get members, and split up the things you want to do into small manageable parts. Informal meetings do most of the work anyway. Contact by email, use this forum. Not hard to do.

 

I know its not hard, having been involved in setting up associations and clubs over many years. That includes motorcycle clubs and a road racing association. They started as very small gathering, less than 15 ppl. They now not only have hundreds of members, but are also getting national exposure and receive gahment funding. One association had a full road racing complex built for them by the gahment.

 

That did not happen overnight, it took years. However it started with a group of riders saying "I'm sick of being treated like a pox when I pay for my motorcycle registration!"

 

I would have to say that its a lot easier now. With email, sms and hp. Lack of communication is one of the biggest problems in getting ppl together. It was a lot harder doing so by snail mail and telephone. No such thing as facsimiles either, those came later.

 

Who would set it up? We should! We meet, we have a talk, and we work out what the aims are. Then take it from there. One step at a time. Its a bit like learning to ride that first bicycle. Doesn't seem like you'll ever get to being good enough to ride one of those big engined bikes. Thats how it is when you start out.

 

Then suddenly it starts to fall in place. It gets easier, don't have as many silly problems and you learn from each mistake. The problems get bigger, but you deal with it.

 

[Keynes]

Hi all.

 

It looks like most of the stuff are already in place, the only lacking now is who to start the club/association and to legally register it.

 

We have this forum, it is a very good platform to start with. We had organised numerous outings, now is just to publicse the outings and get more members. We even have our own classified ads.

 

Where to get funds?

 

1) from classified advertisements

 

Share w u my experience. I sold my car in one of the cars selling forum, they charge me $25 for putting my car's ad in the forum for 3 months, my car were sold within 5 days. How can they achieve this? Well they have a network of ppl, who are their so called agents, once u have posted the car ad w Yahoo or other free service ads, the agents will asked you to advertise in their forum, they will then get a small fee, they also have at least one person managing the ads. And believe me, the product there must sell. If we can make our forum a good place to sell bike/accessories, we can charge a small fee, so from there funds are available for the running of the association. Someone has to manage the classified ads section, we can charge $3 to $8 per ads (depending on types of items). It's good enough. But I must stress that this section must be better than Straist times claissifed ads, and Yahoo! Otherwise why should ppl put ads with us instead of Yahoo which is free?

 

2) Memebership fees

Another source of funds is of course membership fees, $10 is reasonable, even $20/yr, I'm willing to pay, AAS collects $56/yr (correct me if I'm wrong), and it organsies car outings, towing services, car maintenance workshops, lobby for car owners interest, it even has a members' lounge, we can slowly follow suit, if our funds r coming in regularly.

 

3) Advertisements from motor shops. Some motor shops can organsie big activities for their anniversary, even our forum has ads, so this is another source of funds.

 

Having said so much, we shd not forget AAS too, though currently it concentrates on cars only, we shd not give up the chance to persuade AAS to include us. If given the permission and need, I'm willing to volunteer to talk/discuss with AAS, but success is not guaranteed.

[cyberstorm]

Having said so much, we shd not forget AAS too, though currently it concentrates on cars only, we shd not give up the chance to persuade AAS to include us. If given the permission and need, I'm willing to volunteer to talk/discuss with AAS, but success is not guaranteed.

 

Like what kirra has mentioned, AAS's interest solely lies in the automobile industry. It's not to say they can't change their aims, but there isn't any obvious incentive or improvement to their image and status as Singapore's premier 4-wheel vehicle association to include motorcyclists. A sister affiliation could probably be viable, but not until this proposed motorcycle association gains in stature.

 

We are better off to be supported by motor dealers, insurance companies who see it in their interest to help promote safer riding and improving the image of motorcycling in SG. Getting TP endorsement would also help in building a respectable image and also pave the way for dialogue sessions to build up rapport and understanding.

 

Just mi 2 cents.

[Keynes]

Originally posted by cyberstorm@Feb 22 2005, 12:35 AM

Like what kirra has mentioned, AAS's interest solely lies in the automobile industry. It's not to say they can't change their aims, but there isn't any obvious incentive or improvement to their image and status as Singapore's premier 4-wheel vehicle association to include motorcyclists. A sister affiliation could probably be viable, but not until this proposed motorcycle association gains in stature.

 

We are better off to be supported by motor dealers, insurance companies who see it in their interest to help promote safer riding and improving the image of motorcycling in SG. Getting TP endorsement would also help in building a respectable image and also pave the way for dialogue sessions to build up rapport and understanding.

 

Just mi 2 cents.

Hi.

 

Just for discussion sake.

 

Like what kirra has mentioned, AAS's interest solely lies in the automobile industry.

 

By definition, automobile means anything that moves powered by an engine, does a motorcycle not fit into this definition?

 

but there isn't any obvious incentive or improvement to their image and status as Singapore's premier 4-wheel vehicle association to include motorcyclists.

 

The incentive to include I can see is plenty. Number one, membership fees, it can be a considerable sum. Number two, more members means more voices and more represented, for issues which concern both 4- and 2-wheelers, AAS will then have a stronger voice. Three, some earnings from roadside recovery of bikes (currently AAS does it free for car owners).

[Steppenwolf]

Originally posted by KawBoy@Sep 21 2004, 07:04 PM

mechwira,

 

No offense taken no worries.

 

It never is easy.

 

What would make you want to join such an association then?

 

Perhaps you could provide input here?

Hey Kawboy,

 

I'd join... heck i'd even pay the 50 bucks....

 

More importantly though is to communicate what the association will stand for?

 

It seems to me that the what we need most is a strong lobby for bikers to represent our views to the policy makers (ie the govt, Traffic police, lta,etc). This extends to private organisations like Shell as well (with the dismount of bugger off mentality). Likewise, a stong bike lobby can be consulted on policies which affect our community.

 

To be taken seriously by the powers that be, we need to "officially" represent a significant number of bikers. Don't forget that although bikers in general may not represent as much financial muscle as car owners, we have the same political muscle when it comes to voting.

 

So bikers have a right to be heard, like everyone else does. Just because it's not been done b4, doesn't mean the govt won't listen. The trick is : getting enough members to be a strong lobby - i'd say we need to be 5000 to 10000 strong. Now i'd find it very hard to imagine the average biker to fork over $50 for such an association (especially since they benefit even they weren't members). I think the way to make this work would be to collect only a nominal fee of less than $5 just to cover the admin overheads of registering the society, etc. Afterall, the "value proposition" of the association won't initially be like the AAS (with towing services, and other complementary services), so it would be hard to justify a high membership fee.

 

If we stick to objective of being a strong and responsible lobby for the bike community, we wouldn't need extensive funding.

 

Anyway, I'd join the association, coz i think we bikers have been under represented, and it's time things change. But 1 man is not enough.

[comics00]

have read every posting in this thread n it sounds more possible with every posting i read. my mind was running n fill with all the possibilities....mmm...

was thinking abt this SBF, LTA, AAS, motortiam, motor agents, magazines... NOW all we need is to get it rolling. we need to sit together n pen down able all the possibilities, decide who to aproach, how to approach.

1st thing now is to get the ppl to start the first meeting. allow me to put forward my name

 

1) comics00

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*its time we kick start an bike association to

1) help promote safety awareness among bikers

2) educates other road user on safety awareness for bikers

3) promote the image of bikers

4) provide basic svc like wat AAS is providing for drivers