The Honda NC700 series

[andrei]

anyway defeat the purpose of riding a class2 bike if honda is going to cut down efficiencies just to give comfortable n save fuel.

 

How do you define "efficiency"?

[stsoh]

Detuned engines are usually not much "weaker", i.e. they usually have almost as much torque as original engines.

They are significantly less powerful because torque, or, in your terms, "strength" of the engine, is moved into lower range.

i know tat but honda still can detune without throwing away so much hp for a 670cc capacity engine.

eg. yamaha fz6 s2 uses a sportbike detuned engine.

[stsoh]

How do you define "efficiency"?

down from 70+hp to 46.6hp.

eg. yamaha fz6 s2 produce 90+hp.

[andrei]

down from 70+hp to 46.6hp.

eg. yamaha fz6 s2 produce 90+hp.

 

So your definition of efficiency is number of HP for a given engine displacement? Why is it so important?

 

If you want to maximize your notion of efficiency, buy a 600cc sportbike

If you need more power, buy a BMW S1000RR

 

NC700 has a different notion of efficiency: it has decent acceleration and top speed with low price and good fuel consumption. Buying other model, you can improve some of these, but you will have to sacrifice some other

[stsoh]

deficiency of the main critical component is the engine, the heart of a bike.

[MonoWorld]

read somewhere that the machine is created for efficiency. the tuning is optimized for engine speed that is often used. from the reviews, seems like the big is torquey (which makes riding around town fun) and thus fun to ride.

[Lexanez]

read somewhere that the machine is created for efficiency. the tuning is optimized for engine speed that is often used. from the reviews, seems like the big is torquey (which makes riding around town fun) and thus fun to ride.

 

After reading many reviews, watching videos and even seen the bike in action, I believed that is what the bike is. A fun, economical commuting bike.

 

DCT is just an option and as what many people said, great for city commuting and start/stop riding conditions on full auto. The manual function is for those who wishes to change gears at will but without using the clutch.

 

Heh, from what I see, most people were skeptical til they tried the bike.

[Chemol]

not really sure about it, vfr figure is from non-dct.

chances is very high, vfr with dct will be the same as crosstourer.

honda wont do extras in manufacturing processes.

anyway defeat the purpose of riding a class2 bike if honda is going to cut down efficiencies just to give comfortable n save fuel.

s4 can do better, very easy to cut down hp but it damn difficult to squeeze more hp.

it takes so many decades to improve efficiency n honda is taking the easy way out.

 

Urm, the VFR DCT model came out a year before the Crosstourer. Same engine, same specs as the non-DCT model.

 

The Cross-tourer also has a non-DCT model. It is as detuned as the DCT model.

[Chemol]

deficiency of the main critical component is the engine, the heart of a bike.

 

If that's the case, everyone should be riding sports bikes derived from racing counterparts. All other engines are, by comparison, detuned and deficient, compared to their high-revving cutting edge cousins.

[stsoh]

honda takes two steps backwards in technology,

1) dividing clutch into two halves makes the clutch weaker.

2) by detune engine down 30% weaker than current standard of a specific capacity.

3) advertising comfort ride n saving fuel if consumer buy it, others should be aware of it.

 

your point is noted, if honda is successful with their ideology, everyone will be riding harley davidson not sport tech bike tat u mention.

currently bike development advancements r from racing tech like motogp n wsbk.

cars (AUTOMOTIVE) developments r taken from f1 technology.

[stsoh]

Urm, the VFR DCT model came out a year before the Crosstourer. Same engine, same specs as the non-DCT model.

 

The Cross-tourer also has a non-DCT model. It is as detuned as the DCT model.

can u check n confirm kw/ps/hp of both models with n without dct?

[Chemol]

can u check n confirm kw/ps/hp of both models with n without dct?

 

There is no need. DCT is an option on both models. Color is an option. Is a black VFR more powerful than a white one, for the same model? Comparing between models sharing the same engine is a nono. What about the hayabusa and b-king? Or the Fazer and r1?

Edited June 1, 2012 by Chemol

[Chemol]

honda takes two steps backwards in technology,

1) dividing clutch into two halves makes the clutch weaker.

2) by detune engine down 30% weaker than current standard of a specific capacity.

3) advertising comfort ride n saving fuel if consumer buy it, others should be aware of it.

 

your point is noted, if honda is successful with their ideology, everyone will be riding harley davidson not sport tech bike tat u mention.

currently bike development advancements r from racing tech like motogp n wsbk.

cars (AUTOMOTIVE) developments r taken from f1 technology.

 

Take some time to explore how dual clutches work. You have a misinformed dislike for this bike and DCT. There are plenty of muscle bikes for your riding pleasure.

[altya]

down from 70+hp to 46.6hp.

eg. yamaha fz6 s2 produce 90+hp.

 

deficiency of the main critical component is the engine, the heart of a bike.

 

can u check n confirm kw/ps/hp of both models with n without dct?

 

Seriously la, base on your analogy, like wat everyone say, ALL bike except sport bike is detune and crap and in-efficient coz they got lousy hp.... Ur sport bike HIGH hp rule ok??

 

Btw if u are so obsess with hp aka horsepower number.... You shouldn't ride a bike, u shld go ride a HORSE, then u will get infinite horsepower which will satisfy u till ur heart content...

[newblood]

There are diffrrent bikes which are built for diff purposes.

 

And the honda nc series is built and meant for ur basic need. Needs that most rider use most of the time

1)torquey

2) excellent fuel comsumption for 14L

3) gd handling

4)easier maintainance

5) 160-180 touring speed

6) a gd fake tank.

[stsoh]

very well, i'm the only one viewed differently.

u all win in mass.......

[newblood]

very well, i'm the only one viewed differently.

u all win in mass.......

 

Nah... each is entitled with their own opinion.

[stsoh]

Seriously la, base on your analogy, like wat everyone say, ALL bike except sport bike is detune and crap and in-efficient coz they got lousy hp.... Ur sport bike HIGH hp rule ok??

 

Btw if u are so obsess with hp aka horsepower number.... You shouldn't ride a bike, u shld go ride a HORSE, then u will get infinite horsepower which will satisfy u till ur heart content...

 

altya, it is very impolite to pick on context.

read the entire postings b4 smashing this trash at me if u understand wat is hp.

all i ask is why honda did not put on an engine of today standard (ie. 70hp) instead honda dump a half baked 46hp engine.

u have not ride any bike above 100hp b4 or know wat is hp from your statements.

simple math 70-46=24hp, this is two of your cbf150 engine horsepower.

if u ride a s4 or any class2A bike n switch to this nc700, its a better ride cos it has 6hp more.

from a class2 bike perspective, its a cheap trick from honda for comfort, fuel economy n pay premium price for dct with a half baked engine.

on the other hand, half baked engine got its own merits:

it will last longer than other bikes cos it will never reach critical stress points.

altya, u r the biggest a$$hole.

for those whom dun understand, u dun have to insult me.

enjoy your ride, end of topic.

Edited May 31, 2012 by stsoh

[samsontok]

Well, I would say NC is a good bike for daily commuter.

[Chemol]

altya, it is very impolite to pick on context.

read the entire postings b4 smashing this trash at me if u understand wat is hp.

all i ask is why honda did not put on an engine of today standard (ie. 70hp) instead honda dump a half baked 46hp engine.

u have not ride any bike above 100hp b4 or know wat is hp from your statements.

simple math 70-46=24hp, this is two of your cbf150 engine horsepower.

if u ride a s4 or any class2A bike n switch to this nc700, its a better ride cos it has 6hp more.

from a class2 bike perspective, its a cheap trick from honda for comfort, fuel economy n pay premium price for dct with a half baked engine.

on the other hand, half baked engine got its own merits:

it will last longer than other bikes cos it will never reach critical stress points.

altya, u r the biggest a$$hole.

for those whom dun understand, u dun have to insult me.

enjoy your ride, end of topic.

 

Name calling aside, the arguments you've made are misleading.

 

1. The NC700 burns lean and overheats.

2. FC of 28km/l is a gimmick (btw 'D' mode at 50kph, is that a car you're referring to?).

3. DCT is two halves of one clutch, hence weaker and cannot handle high HP.

 

Your belief is divorced from fact.

 

As for the HP argument, much of the rev band on a modern Class 2 bike is unused other than on tour up north. Most of the mileage is accumulated from urban commuting. Other than the occasional overtaking thrill, power is latent and fuel wasted on big bikes. A Hayabusa's throttle is really difficult to tame when you can beat the speed limit on first gear!

 

Oh yes, Harleys are not known for fuel efficiency. The Harley owners I know? They buy the story, more than they buy the bike.

 

You are welcome to dislike this underpowered Honda. But, dislike it for the right reasons.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Chemol

[muddyxr]

I like this bike.

Might get the DCT for daily commute.

[MonoWorld]

my impression of high hp = rev the tits out of the engine, dancing with the gear lever etc

 

I believe this bike is not for hp. it is built for the power (or people call it torque) range where city people like us mostly use. we can't be using 130hp (FZ1) on Singapore rd, right?

[samsontok]

my impression of high hp = rev the tits out of the engine, dancing with the gear lever etc

 

I believe this bike is not for hp. it is built for the power (or people call it torque) range where city people like us mostly use. we can't be using 130hp (FZ1) on Singapore rd, right?

 

 

Agree with you for local use. Most riders when riding on local roads tend to move off fast after stop line or traffic light and thereafter they tend to slow down & turn their heads. Reason being they are afraid people like you "TeePee", lol...

[stsoh]

Name calling aside, the arguments you've made are misleading.

 

1. The NC700 burns lean and overheats.

2. FC of 28km/l is a gimmick (btw 'D' mode at 50kph, is that a car you're referring to?).

3. DCT is two halves of one clutch, hence weaker and cannot handle high HP.

 

Your belief is divorced from fact.

 

As for the HP argument, much of the rev band on a modern Class 2 bike is unused other than on tour up north. Most of the mileage is accumulated from urban commuting. Other than the occasional overtaking thrill, power is latent and fuel wasted on big bikes. A Hayabusa's throttle is really difficult to tame when you can beat the speed limit on first gear!

 

Oh yes, Harleys are not known for fuel efficiency. The Harley owners I know? They buy the story, more than they buy the bike.

 

You are welcome to dislike this underpowered Honda. But, dislike it for the right reasons.

 

dislike for the right reasons?

did i say anything about dislike this bike?

i dun recalled putting a statement tat i dislike it.

 

anyway u r a good fellow as compare to the ruffian altya, did not contribute just fired sh.it off.

this is typical young sillyporean, i believe u r new citizen of sillypore cos u have a head on your neck.

 

lets have a good healthy discussion.

this is not the first time honda have done this.

take a look at gt bro, nv700, nt700 (deauville), pc800.

these r v-twin also detuned under power.

this time round, they do it with new gimmick dct p-twin but the lowest detuned engine as compared to those mentioned.

for nc700, honda did not make manual gearshift model. only dct model, correct me if i'm wrong.

vfr have both manual gearshift(166hp) n dct model(123hp), dct model cost us$2,000 more n power detuned 30% down.

which will u choose if there r two models manual n dct for nc700??

more costly dct model with 30% power down or manual gearshift with std 70hp??

needless to say, i know wat u will choose, am i wrong again?

dct model has a minor fault like any new gadget (have not iron out yet) but can get use to it, u will know when u ride it.

 

your reasons is fuel economy n comfort, so why arent any of u ride any of those nv700, nt700, gt bro, pc800??

they all failed in sales n not very popular in europe n usa, this time honda sale dept try luck with nc700.

reasons maybe they can entice consumers becos of high fuel price or europe is pushing bike not exceeding 100hp.

 

my view n your view is different n my taste n your taste r not alike, whichever or whatever.

your view of a half filled glass is half full.

my view of a half filled glass is half empty.

 

when u r young, u r always curious n ask 'why' eventually u got the answers.

do it to honda or ask yourself.

why must detune engine??

why cant built a full baskets for each side of clutch??

why cant honda put a standard or on par engine with their competitors??

kept asking why......n u will know.

there many stereo type naive sillyporeans, i know i'm wrong anyway.

Edited June 1, 2012 by stsoh

[Lexanez]

dislike for the right reasons?

did i say anything about dislike this bike?

i dun recalled putting a statement tat i dislike it.

 

anyway u r a good fellow as compare to the ruffian altya, did not contribute just fired sh.it off.

this is typical young sillyporean, i believe u r new citizen of sillypore cos u have a head on your neck.

 

lets have a good healthy discussion.

this is not the first time honda have done this.

take a look at gt bro, nv700, nt700 (deauville), pc800.

these r v-twin also detuned under power.

this time round, they do it with new gimmick dct p-twin but the lowest detuned engine as compared to those mentioned.

for nc700, honda did not make manual gearshift model. only dct model, correct me if i'm wrong.

vfr have both manual gearshift(166hp) n dct model(123hp), dct model cost us$2,000 more n power detuned 30% down.

which will u choose if there r two models manual n dct for nc700??

more costly dct model with 30% power down or manual gearshift with std 70hp??

needless to say, i know wat u will choose, am i wrong again?

dct model has a minor fault like any new gadget (have not iron out yet) but can get use to it, u will know when u ride it.

 

your reasons is fuel economy n comfort, so why arent any of u ride any of those nv700, nt700, gt bro, pc800??

they all failed in sales n not very popular in europe n usa, this time honda sale dept try luck with nc700.

reasons maybe they can entice consumers becos of high fuel price or europe is pushing bike not exceeding 100hp.

 

my view n your view is different n my taste n your taste r not alike, whichever or whatever.

your view of a half filled glass is half full.

my view of a half filled glass is half empty.

 

when u r young, u r always curious n ask 'why' eventually u got the answers.

do it to honda or ask yourself.

why must detune engine??

why cant built a full baskets for each side of clutch??

why cant honda put a standard or on par engine with their competitors??

kept asking why......n u will know.

there many stereo type naive sillyporeans, i know i'm wrong anyway.

 

Well, apologies there but I'll have to disagree with you.

 

The NC700X (670cc Parallel Twin) comes in 3 models. Base, C-ABS and C-ABS cum DCT.

 

Aside from that, the NC700 series includes the NC700X, NC700S, Integra.

 

The NC700S and NC700X comes in the 3 models stated above but only the NC700X C-ABS cum DCT model has higher power which is 38.1 kW @ 6,250rpm and 62Nm of torque @ 4,750rpm, the rest is at 35kW @ 6,250rpm and 60Nm of torque @ 4,750rpm.

 

The Integra, like the NC700X DCT is also at 38.1kW @ 6,250rpm and 62Nm of torque @ 4,750rpm.

 

Now let's compare these paper figures to NT700V, CBF600 (One of the most popular 600cc around in Europe and other countries) and the bike which you mentioned, FZ600 S2. Oh, let's throw in the GSR600 for comparison too!

 

The NT700V have 48.3 kW (65 hp) @ 8,000 rpm and 66.2 Nm (48.8 lb·ft) @ 6,500 rpm

(Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Deauville)

 

The CBF600 have 57 kW @ 10500 rpm and 59 Nm @ 8000 rpm

(Source: http://www.motorera.com/honda/h0600/cbf600.htm)

 

The FZ600 S2 have 72 kW (98 PS) (97HP) @ 12,000 rpm and 63.1 Nm (46.5 lbf·ft) @ 10,000 rpm

(Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_FZ6)

 

The GSR600 have 68 kW (90 bhp) @ 12,000 rpm and 59.7 Nm (44.1 lb.ft) @ 9,750 rpm

(Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_GSR600)

 

One thing to take note though, between different engine types such as In-line 4, V-twin and P-twin, you can't really compare how is it like as it is pretty unfair to look at just purely horsepower figures. Remember, these engines aren't the detuned version of In-line 4s but entirely different engines altogether.

 

Inline 4

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inline-four_engine

 

V-twin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-twin_engine

 

Parallel twin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel-twin_engine

 

Now as you can see, the various figures above have shown that it is pretty clear that the NC700 series have the greatest torque of 62Nm at a low rpm of 4,750rpm but however, the lowest power at a modest 38.1kW.

 

This means that the NC700 series are tuned for low end torque and designed like a car due to its low rpm, maxed out at 6,500rpm but it will run out of rpm before 200km/h, it has only a top speed of 197km/h as shown in a video.

 

What the power rating does, just means that all of the bikes above are gonna beat the NC700 in a flat out, straight road long distance race. However, the NC700 will shine in start/stop riding and city rides as its admirable torque at low rpm will allow it to zip around easily.

 

Detuning a bike is not a bad thing, really. As in the case of NC700, what Honda did was to significantly increase the low-end response of the bike for usage in real-time riding as most bikers could't really hit above 120km/h in cities and crowded highways, allowing the rider to reach his destination at the shortest time possible.

 

Now, lets look at fuel economy of the above bikes based on Manufacturers' specifications

 

The NC700 series gets bout 64MPG (27.2km/l)

(Source: http://powersports.honda.com/2012/nc700x/specifications.aspx)

 

The NT700V Deauville gets about 49MPG (20.8km/l)

(Source: http://powersports.honda.com/2011/nt700v/specifications.aspx)

 

The CBF600 gets 45.9mpg (19.5km/l) (Apologies if I took the liberty to convert UK MPG to US MPG)

(Source: http://www.doble.co.uk/theBikes/newBikeDetails.asp?bikeRefNo=1324)

 

The Yamaha FZ600 S2 yields 43MPG (18.2km/l)

(Source: http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products/modelspecs/619/0/specs.aspx)

 

The GSR 600 obtain bout 42MPG (17.9km/l)

(Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_GSR600)

 

Given the above fuel consumption, the NC700 yields the best among the above. This would again apply onto real world concept as given current gas prices, it would make your gas consumption as low as possible.

 

Now, with the above characteristics, the NC700 fits the bill of being a commuter. The torque and low gas consumption would make it appealing to the everyday city rider with the tendency of an occasional tour, is it not what most people are? This bike was never designed to go track or go incredible distance within a short period of time or serious dirt biking, for that purposes, you have other specifically tailored bikes.

 

One more thing though, the numbers that you quoted for the VFR1200F and VFR1200FD confuses me. Honda South Africa have stated that these 2 bikes have the same power and torque.

 

As seen here, under the 'Engine' heading.

 

http://www.honda.co.za/showspecs.aspx?t=2&ModelList=194,218,187

 

MCN, however quoted different figures. All MPG figures are in UK MPG which is higher than US MPG. I lol'ed at the one for VFR1200F and VFR1200F DCT

 

I used this to convert the different MPG values.

http://www.markporthouse.net/rangie/fuelconsumptionconversion.htm#

 

The NT700V Deauville

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/bikereviews/searchresults/Bike-Reviews/Honda/Honda-NT700V-Deauville-2006-current/

 

The CBF600

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/bikereviews/searchresults/Bike-Reviews/Honda/HONDA-CBF600-2004--current/

 

The FZ600S2

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/bikereviews/searchresults/Bike-Reviews/Yamaha/Yamaha-FZS600-Fazer-1998-2004-/

 

The GSR600

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/bikereviews/searchresults/Bike-Reviews/Suzuki/Suzuki-GSR600-2006-current/

 

The VFR1200F

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/bikereviews/searchresults/Bike-Reviews/Honda/Honda-VFR1200F-2010-current/

 

The VFR1200F DCT

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/bikereviews/searchresults/Bike-Reviews/Honda/Honda-VFR1200F-DCT-2010-current/

 

Well, now onto popularity of these bikes.

 

The NT700V have received good reception across Europe and is a pretty popular bike. These 2 articles would prove it. Well, the NV700 is just the US naming of the NT700V.

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/117/5327/Motorcycle-Article/2010-Honda-NT700V-First-Ride.aspx

http://www.topspeed.com/motorcycles/motorcycle-reviews/honda/2010-honda-nt700v-ar79405.html

http://www.productreview.com.au/p/honda-nt700v-deauville.html

 

I have no idea of what a "gt bro" is but the nearest I got is the Honda Hawk GT NT650, the Japanese model was called "Bros". The PC800 Pacific Coast was the forerunner to side opening cases that the NT700, ST1300 sported.

These 2 bikes are old bikes which cease production in 1991 and 1998 respectively so they are old bikes. However, both have their own cult following as a simple Google search will yield forums dedicated to these 2 bikes. Information below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_NT650

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Pacific_Coast

 

 

Also, why not add these?

 

The African Twin, a V-twin with a massive following from many countries boosted a modest 45.3 kW (62 hp) @ 7500 rpm and 62.7 Nm @ 6000 rpm. This bike is a hugely popular dual sport with many people hoping for a new update in the near future, since production of the bike was ceased in 2003.

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50630

http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/honda/honda_xrv750_98.htm

 

The Versys 650, a parallel twin with 47 kW (64 hp) @ 8000 rpm and 61 Nm @ 6800 rpm is a huge success in Europe, Britain and Malaysia. It is also awarded Motorcycle of the year on the "Motor Cycle News", a British magazine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasaki_Versys

http://londonbikers.com/news/10514/kawasaki-versys-wins-prestigious-award

 

Let's make a balance. The DN-01.

This did not take off in any manner due to its peculiar outlook and a "Crossover" between a Scooter and a Tourer. Primarily due to its lack of storage space, low loading tolerance and high pricing that ultimately push it away from the minds of people to other models instead.

Read somewhere that a dealer called it "Do Not Order 1". Funny stuffs but still, a bike to consider if it weren't so expensive!

Human Friendly Transmission is pretty cool though.

 

 

Lastly, here's a video from Honda to tell you what DCT actually is.

 

Edited June 1, 2012 by Lexanez