Grounding

[Lmodel]

Originally posted by d0n^@Oct 8 2004, 10:25 PM

huh??

1cm thick?!!

this is not ordinary wire liao leh........

 

so is it 1mm thick?

or are the subwoofers for my comp not using the wires u are talking abt....?

Its not those wires which you'd normally see for computer wiring, etc.

 

Basically, amps fanatics will know which kinda wires is being referred to. One of the most branded wires known in the market is the MONSTER cable. Perhaps the word "cable" is more appropriate here. Usually these cables can comes in many form from 18k gold plated to copper, etc. These cables are usually thick in diameter and have better conductivity. In an amp system, such cables are used for enhancing the sound produced by the speaker or laymen terms, clarity. Some of these cables can cost abt $50 per meter or more.

 

However, its still cheaper to buy these cables than go to those shops which charges you an absurd price for their "grounding" with normal wires. Of course, these cables defintely conducts better than those wire u can buy off hardware shops.

 

Hope it helps =)

[william_liu]

Originally posted by roger@Oct 8 2004, 11:06 PM

Its really 1 centimetre thick!!

 

nE0 pian xin one... only use 1cm for his elmo, our bike all so thin...

 

Hahhaa

I also want can or not?.......

 

[MC28]

Originally posted by Lmodel@Oct 8 2004, 11:41 PM

Its not those wires which you'd normally see for computer wiring, etc.

 

Basically, amps fanatics will know which kinda wires is being referred to. One of the most branded wires known in the market is the MONSTER cable. Perhaps the word "cable" is more appropriate here. Usually these cables can comes in many form from 18k gold plated to copper, etc. These cables are usually thick in diameter and have better conductivity. In an amp system, such cables are used for enhancing the sound produced by the speaker or laymen terms, clarity. Some of these cables can cost abt $50 per meter or more.

 

However, its still cheaper to buy these cables than go to those shops which charges you an absurd price for their "grounding" with normal wires. Of course, these cables defintely conducts better than those wire u can buy off hardware shops.

 

Hope it helps =)

bro,monster ex lehz..my bro using for his sound system..

[Guest nE0]

Noneed so good ones, Monster cables have very fine grain crystals for its metalic structure in the wire itself, has better shielding, low internal inductance and capacitance, low crosstalk etc.... Or, Good acoustic properties

 

The 1cm, yes, 1cm, or 10mm thick cable is 10mm of pure copper strands with a 1.5mm thick rubber insuation and a thin foil shield. Its good enough for vehicle grounding applications.

 

I pian xin? You guys didn't want to use the thick wire ok, hee hee. And, my Elmo always gets the best things!

[Guest nE0]

http://www.picturesky.com/albums/userpics/10129/DSCN2787.JPG

 

REplaced the stock wire with the one at the bottom.

[josean]

Originally posted by nE0@Oct 9 2004, 02:04 AM

http://www.picturesky.com/albums/userpics/10129/DSCN2787.JPG

 

REplaced the stock wire with the one at the bottom.

the one i saw at ET,

 

the cables look something like that. red in colour too

[WildCard]

Originally posted by nE0@Oct 9 2004, 02:04 AM

http://www.picturesky.com/albums/userpics/10129/DSCN2787.JPG

 

REplaced the stock wire with the one at the bottom.

 

Neo,

that one still too thin lah.

Remember that cable I showed you at SLT?

kekekekekk!

I still can't stop laughing trying to picture that cable on our bikes.

 

 

guys,

If the idea is for better morning starts and better power flow to the spark plugs, try measuring the incoming voltage at the HT coils.

Big electrical bikes like mine, with God-knows numerous sensors, resistors and fuses along the way, will "leech" some of the power from the 12V batt to the HT coils.

Tried it out before. Power flowing from batt was a tad above 12V, meaning fully charged. Power at coil was 10.49V. Meaning along the way, I lost nearly 2 volts.

Comes along a fren from Finland with a rewiring idea. We're calling it positive grounding, as opposed to the negative grounding.

http://img40.photobucket.com/albums/v123/jaketintti/Coilmod.jpg

Essentially, I'm rewiring a thicker gauge cable from my batt +ve terminal directly to the HT coils. In between is a 15A fuse for prevention of surges and an Bosch Automotive Relay, courtesy of nE0 (thank you). The original wire which passes thru the various sensors is used to power the relay. When the relay is powered up, the connection between the batt and the HT coil is closed. What I get is 12V directly from the batt, instead of just 10+V.

The outcome? I haven't had a start failure yet, no matter what type of weather. Used to, I'd often had problems in cold starts on really cold mornings. 2, maybe 3 times to start the bike. Now, I just press it once and she will start. Not exactly springing to life but no heavy reluctance to start either.

[Guest nE0]

Theres thick, theres thicker, and theres OVERKILL.

 

I'm not gonna put a wire thats as thick as my forks!

[WildCard]

Originally posted by nE0@Oct 9 2004, 11:12 AM

Theres thick, theres thicker, and theres OVERKILL.

 

I'm not gonna put a wire thats as thick as my forks!

:lol:

thought more is good?...

 

j/k

[d0n]

hm

icic...now i can see 1cm wire

 

so if i were to use the normal copper eletrical wires for the grounding

is it okie?

or insufficient?

[Non Stop Racing]

guys u think a bike wif alarm n volt meter nesscery need to do grounding ?

[S750WP]

Originally posted by WildCard@Oct 9 2004, 08:50 AM

Neo,

that one still too thin lah.

Remember that cable I showed you at SLT?

kekekekekk!

I still can't stop laughing trying to picture that cable on our bikes.

 

 

guys,

If the idea is for better morning starts and better power flow to the spark plugs, try measuring the incoming voltage at the HT coils.

Big electrical bikes like mine, with God-knows numerous sensors, resistors and fuses along the way, will "leech" some of the power from the 12V batt to the HT coils.

Tried it out before. Power flowing from batt was a tad above 12V, meaning fully charged. Power at coil was 10.49V. Meaning along the way, I lost nearly 2 volts.

Comes along a fren from Finland with a rewiring idea. We're calling it positive grounding, as opposed to the negative grounding.

http://img40.photobucket.com/albums/v123/jaketintti/Coilmod.jpg

Essentially, I'm rewiring a thicker gauge cable from my batt +ve terminal directly to the HT coils. In between is a 15A fuse for prevention of surges and an Bosch Automotive Relay, courtesy of nE0 (thank you). The original wire which passes thru the various sensors is used to power the relay. When the relay is powered up, the connection between the batt and the HT coil is closed. What I get is 12V directly from the batt, instead of just 10+V.

The outcome? I haven't had a start failure yet, no matter what type of weather. Used to, I'd often had problems in cold starts on really cold mornings. 2, maybe 3 times to start the bike. Now, I just press it once and she will start. Not exactly springing to life but no heavy reluctance to start either.

The wiring diagram is exactly what how I used to wire my Hella horns previously.

 

To interpret your your schematic in words.

 

1. Wire a cable to a inline fuse holder, with 15A from the positive of batt to Bosch relay Pin 30.

 

2. Remove the primary coil and attached to Pin 85 and 86 of bosch relay

 

3. Wire from pin 87 from bosch relay to the primary coil and ground the open end of the relay to frame.

 

4. When a signal from digital ignitor(CDI) tell coil to fire, pin 85 and pin 86 activates (12V or 10++ volts for your case) and pin 30 is connected to pin 87 supplying 12v directly from the batt.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[WildCard]

I forgot the numbers on the relay (kept calling to nE0 to confirm I was wiring correctly).

Since I have 2 HT coils, it went like:

 

batt +ve -> 15A fuse -> relay input -> relay output (2 of them) splitting to 2 coils.

 

Original coil +ve wire are twisted together -> to the relay control terminal. Ground is tied to bike frame.

 

What I like abt the circuit is tat its nearly fool-proof. If there is a surge from the batt, the fuse will protect the relay and the coil. If any sensor fails (tip-over, side-stand, engine kill-switch), the relay will not be powered up coz there is no current flow from the original coil wire.

If the relay fails, all I have to do is just splice the original coil wire into the newer coil wires. Current will flow bypassing the relay but still has the original fuse box and sensors to protect it. I'm doing clicking-couplers at strategic locations to allow this instead of having to cut and splice wires in case of relay failure.

 

Only problem is, I'm worried that I twisted the two original +ve coil wires together to allow it to connect to the relay. Its from a single wire that Suzuki electricians split to power up each HT coil. Dunno what the effect will be.

nE0, any comments?

[d0n]

wah

this one getting too chimz for mr krr liaoz

[S750WP]

Originally posted by WildCard@Oct 10 2004, 12:17 PM

I forgot the numbers on the relay (kept calling to nE0 to confirm I was wiring correctly).

Since I have 2 HT coils, it went like:

 

batt +ve -> 15A fuse -> relay input -> relay output (2 of them) splitting to 2 coils.

 

Original coil +ve wire are twisted together -> to the relay control terminal. Ground is tied to bike frame.

 

What I like abt the circuit is tat its nearly fool-proof. If there is a surge from the batt, the fuse will protect the relay and the coil. If any sensor fails (tip-over, side-stand, engine kill-switch), the relay will not be powered up coz there is no current flow from the original coil wire.

If the relay fails, all I have to do is just splice the original coil wire into the newer coil wires. Current will flow bypassing the relay but still has the original fuse box and sensors to protect it. I'm doing clicking-couplers at strategic locations to allow this instead of having to cut and splice wires in case of relay failure.

 

Only problem is, I'm worried that I twisted the two original +ve coil wires together to allow it to connect to the relay. Its from a single wire that Suzuki electricians split to power up each HT coil. Dunno what the effect will be.

nE0, any comments?

I'm not really sure abt your bike wiring because yours is V-twin and my is in-line 4

 

Bandit400 configuration is as follow.

 

There are 2 coils , located on the left and right side of the frame

 

Left coil has 2 secondary wire(spark plug cable) connected to cyl 1&4 spark plugs and 2 primary wires (12V on and off depends on signal generator and CDI)

 

Right coil has 2 secondary wire(spark plug cable) connected to cyl 2&3 spark plugs and 2 primary wires (12V on and off depends on signal generator and CDI)

 

The bosch relays has total of 5 pins,

1 Pin30(+ve of batt),

1 Pin 85 & 1 Pin 86(primary circuit)

2 Pins 87(secondary cirucit).

 

How the relay work is when pin 85 and Pin 86 is activated (10-12v), Pin 87 normally open is closed and current is pass from pin 30 through Pin 87. And when 10-12V is removed from Pin 85 and Pin 86, Pin 87 opens again.

 

I would suggest to use 2 bosch relay, because there are 2 different set of signals telling the left coils(cyl 1&4) and right coil(cyl 2&3) when to fire, and the bosch relay only have only 1 primary circuit(1 Pin 85 and 1 Pin 86). And I cant take anyhow the the relay output (Pin 87) and connect it to which ever coil I like, because the signal are different, it may ends up misfiring if I did not wire it properly. Hope I dont confuse you.

 

Left coil

 

+ve batt -> 15A fuse -> Pin 30(Relay 1)

2 left primary wire controlling cyl 1&4 -> Pin 85 & Pin 86(relay 1)

Pin 87(Relay 1) -> +ve of left coil

-ve of left coil -> frame of motorbike

 

Right coil

 

+ve batt -> 15A fuse -> Pin 30(Relay 2)

2 Right primary wire controlling cyl 2&3 -> Pin 85 & Pin 86(relay 2)

Pin 87(Relay 2) -> +ve of right coil

-ve of right coil -> frame of motorbike

[WildCard]

tats what I'm thinking.

2 relays, 1 for each coil.

But I raised this with my Finnish friend. He mentioned need not, considering that for my case, the wire splits after the last sensor. Meaning, the signal to fire for both coils is coming from the same single wire splitting. Kinda odd. But maybe coz mine is a V.

Nonetheless, it might be a useful safety precaution.

You've tried it on yours?

 

don, dun think this one is necessary for yours coz urs is kick-starter. But it might be useful guide for other electrical accessories.

[S750WP]

Originally posted by WildCard@Oct 10 2004, 10:12 PM

tats what I'm thinking.

2 relays, 1 for each coil.

But I raised this with my Finnish friend. He mentioned need not, considering that for my case, the wire splits after the last sensor. Meaning, the signal to fire for both coils is coming from the same single wire splitting. Kinda odd. But maybe coz mine is a V.

Nonetheless, it might be a useful safety precaution.

You've tried it on yours?

 

don, dun think this one is necessary for yours coz urs is kick-starter. But it might be useful guide for other electrical accessories.

Nope I didn't do this mod, because I have no problem firing up the bike.

 

If I were you I would play safe with 2 bosch relay, its not too expensive, rather than to risk messing up the timing of the bike. Anyway the choice is yours.

[d0n]

Originally posted by WildCard@Oct 10 2004, 10:12 PM

tats what I'm thinking.

2 relays, 1 for each coil.

But I raised this with my Finnish friend. He mentioned need not, considering that for my case, the wire splits after the last sensor. Meaning, the signal to fire for both coils is coming from the same single wire splitting. Kinda odd. But maybe coz mine is a V.

Nonetheless, it might be a useful safety precaution.

You've tried it on yours?

 

don, dun think this one is necessary for yours coz urs is kick-starter. But it might be useful guide for other electrical accessories.

okie

thanks

[Guest AndrewChang]

Originally posted by Gixxer Lee@Oct 5 2004, 03:13 PM

So there'll not be any present of electrical moving in ur bike when there's no direct power supply.

 

Har? Your bike fram stores electricity when its not grounded? So it will explode later if not released har? Like macham never have sex for a month leh.

 

Wait wait, another question, so if must ground else there will be a short circuit, but then a short circuit is in fact a direct grounding leh, so should be good leh, but how come its bad?..how cum ar?

[Guest AndrewChang]

Originally posted by apek@Oct 5 2004, 03:35 PM

A cheap way, u can just use any left-over home wiring; u noe those type that runs along the wall at our home. A more stylo DIY if u wish; go to Sim Lim basement shop & buy the bare cable, pre-cut at 1M length, sold in a small packet for S$1.50. ONE cable per bike is more than enuf. BARE cable is best.

 

Hope this clarify.

Exactly the answer i'm looking for, not some bike shop hearsay because they are selling the product.

 

Go to SIM LIM, buy some thicker guage cables, buy some connectors (You can even buy beautiful gold ones), replace the factory grounding wires (chassis, computer, subframe, engine), and you should be good to go, and you would save so much than buying a so called kit from the bike shop

[william_liu]

Upz..... thinking about DIY-ing this..... Counter-T, interested?

[Counter-Terrorist]

Originally posted by william_liu@Oct 22 2004, 11:35 AM

Upz..... thinking about DIY-ing this..... Counter-T, interested?

i saw grounding wires selling for $18 for model 737, $28 for model 747 (sunshine plaza best, other places including web going for 35-55).....total 5 cables......but only in green or blue colour...........i wanna red to accompany my blackie........think can share lah..........i only want to do a 2 to 3 point ground.........got 5 too many........

 

negative to frame (front most)

negative to clutch case (right)

negative to crank case (left)

negative to cdi (think not)

negative to ???? (think not)

 

else can buy 5m speaker cable.......maybe cabletalk......costing $3-4 bucks per metre........try to find gold coated connectors...then diy

[william_liu]

Why not do like Neo, just get thicker speaker cables, connectors to replace the stock ones? We can get from Sim Lim Towers, then DIY at some sheltered carpark... how?

[Counter-Terrorist]

hmmm.......our bikes around 1-3year old......think dun wanna to touch the original bike wiring yet.......rect still okie, colour of connection still good...thus just wanna to improve the grounding first

[william_liu]

Yah lah.... I meant the stock ground wire....