Loud Pipes Saves Lives

[Guest nE0]

I think its down to how sensible the user is. You can go round irritating everyone with a perfectly legal bike, revving and horning for no reason in the wee hours of the morning in a dense housing estate.

 

So how, ban motorcyclists from horning and revving above 5000rpm after 10pm???

[w1n6]

Originally posted by nE0@Mar 11 2005, 03:01 AM

So how, ban motorcyclists from horning and revving above 5000rpm after 10pm???

hahaha... why not? police patrol cars are BANNED to on their siren when got emergency cases dunno 10 or 11pm coz sillyporean think its anti-social or they have too many wet-dreams.

[mechwira]

Originally posted by nE0@Mar 11 2005, 03:01 AM

I think its down to how sensible the user is. You can go round irritating everyone with a perfectly legal bike, revving and horning for no reason in the wee hours of the morning in a dense housing estate.

 

So how, ban motorcyclists from horning and revving above 5000rpm after 10pm???

its all about placing a practical limit. granted, stock bikes can rev realli loud at 9k rpm. so, place the limit as that decibel level for 9k rpm. or set it at some other rpm. basically, any mod which brings the sound level higher at the test standard rpm is not allowed.

 

this is what is going on in the world. even for our vicom test. i donno the test standard rpm they use; maybe idling.

 

a perfect solution may not exist, but doesn mean cant go round looking for practical solutions with as little imperfections as possible.

[numbergames]

Originally posted by w1n6@Mar 9 2005, 10:19 PM

of course safe riding save lives, but with an additional 'loud pipes' on your bike, you save more lives. tio bo

no man... loud pipes will only iritate people and cause maybe more incidents of road rage....

[w1n6]

Originally posted by numbergames@Mar 12 2005, 01:31 AM

no man... loud pipes will only iritate people and cause maybe more incidents of road rage....

i agree with you. some of the phantom bikes on roads are really irritating, though i can't see them from my mirror when i'm driving... but i can hear those loud pipes by my side. not much i can do, but hopefully with their louder pipes can save them.

[Lass]

Originally posted by rhema83@Mar 10 2005, 01:06 PM

Sorry but I don't agree with you.

 

What I propose is that the authorities allow aftermarket pipes and systems as long as they are made for the bike and meet emission and noise standards. These can all be verified using manufacturer specs.

 

I am appalled that those deafening "stock" Harley pipes that definitely don't meet noise standards are road legal. They should have modified them to meet noise standards just like how they slapped the detested "milo can" onto RS125 to meet emission standards. (No offence to Harley owners, but some Harley pipes are really so loud that damage to the ears is possible.)

i definitely agree w u on this one. harley's are so noisy and doesn't help when u got an arrogent rider who just rev and rev to get pple's attention, sorry to say this out of the many harleys i come across, 8 out of 10 does that and hence my bad impression of them.

 

i heard it fr the grapevine that some harley pipes r mod to become louder is it true?

 

the only time i can't hear my own 2b bikes exhaust is when a harley is next to me and my bike is stock but i absolutely hated the noise fr my exhaust and hope that i can upgrade to a nice 4 stroke 2a bike soon.

[akapovic1]

Y harleys always like to blow when they stop at traffic lights huh?Kind of irratating..

9 out of 10 do that.

[numbergames]

it's their status thing i guess.... they want people to look at them that's why....

[Easyrider_Bandit]

If making a sound is the key to safety, I suggest ALL bikes should carry a constant sound emitting device (like maybe the reverse tone that lorries have). Like that confirm car drivers will know you are there all the time. Can be bought for a fraction of a loud pipe, and you can disengage at the middle of the night while going into your carpark.

 

After all, there's no reason why safety should be restricted to Harley's right?

 

And I suspect, now that I have proposed this really uncool solution (which is 100% resonable from a safety perspective)... suddenly people won't want to adopt right? I would love to see a few HDs cruising down the street making the "doh-rei-mi, mi-rei-do" tune and turning driver's eyes....

 

You don't even have to mount the device on your bike... can carry it around, TP cannot summon you for illegal mod.

[nacl]

Originally posted by Easyrider_Bandit@Mar 20 2005, 10:52 PM

You don't even have to mount the device on your bike... can carry it around, TP cannot summon you for illegal mod.

i like ur style. u just had to reveal our true desire eh? i enjoy the throaty roar of an exhaust as much as anyone else. that's the REAL reason (n maybe some extra ponies). safety or no. heh heh.

 

still can't stop laughing over ur suggestion of installing a do-re-mi mi-re-do device. it's just so funny. imagine all our faces when u suggest that.

 

i guess some may hv seen dis : http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/03/17/quiet.b...reut/index.html

[rickzhee]

Originally posted by nacl@Mar 20 2005, 11:05 PM

i guess some may hv seen dis : http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/03/17/quiet.b...reut/index.html

Check out this line in the attachment: -

 

"Powered by a high pressure hydrogen fuel cell, the Emissions Neutral Vehicle (ENV) produces the equivalent noise of a personal computer fan belt.

 

Not only is that distinctly wimpish in the eyes of many bikers, it could also be dangerous."

[mechwira]

Originally posted by rickzhee@Mar 21 2005, 02:16 PM

Not only is that distinctly wimpish in the eyes of many bikers

are you arguing for louder pipes because of "safety" or because the sound of one's pipes reflects the size of his libido?

 

it could also be dangerous."

 

the other guy came up wif a nice idea, i'd like to know your comments.

 

every bike needs a 'siren-like' device that goes something like "beeeeeeeeep.......beep-beep.....beeeeep....." which warns other road users of one's presence.

 

i can tell you now, there is technology that allows a device to emit sound loudly but only up to a particular radius. perfect isn it? vehicles near the biker can hear the biker but other people who wanna sleep in their homes dun hear the "beeeeeeeeep.......beep-beep.......beeeeep.....!". unlike the pipes where ppl who dun wanna hear it will aslo hear it.

 

plus unlike pipes, u wont need to continously keep at high revs to emit loud sound, the device can continously beep loudly despite ur bike going slowly at low revs. more plus point for such a device in terms of safety.

 

safety.

[Easyrider_Bandit]

Every bike should have a electrical powered socket, by law. All riders are then required by law to plug in the lorry reverse sound device into this socket. This device can be mounted on the bike, in a givi box, or carried in a backpack by the rider. Those who do not comply will kena summoned.

 

All bikers will travel to the tune of "do-rei-me, me-rei-do" Safety for all.

[mechwira]

The entire issue has been based on the following shallow premise:

 

Loud pipes ---> Others can hear your presence ---> "Life saved"

 

 

Questions:

 

1) For loud pipes to be a safety feature, it would be fair to assume that every vehicle should and would have loud pipes. In such an instance, how then would loud pipes continue to be a safety feature, if the above premise fail becasue others cannot hear your presence since other vehicles themselves have loud pipes as one's own?

 

2) For moving vehicles, you can hear the engines much more clearly when you're behind the particular vehicle then when you're in front of the vehicle. This is a real scientific phenomenon which is noticeable on the roads. How effective would the loud pipes be to fellow vehicles, considering its when the bike is behind that is when you need the front vehicle to be able to hear it?

 

3) Continuing from qn 2, how much safer would one be with loud pipes? What specific examples of situations can you offer whereby "loud pipes save lives"? Are the gains big or small? In light of such (in my opinion) small gains, how would one justify their use considering the very big compromise that one would surely incur in terms of noise pollution?

 

 

 

Surely anyone who wants to argue about lud pipes need to answer the above questions before he/she can convince ppl that 'loud pipes save lives'. you'll need to explain how they save lives, and why it is worth doing despite the inconvenience it will cause in terms of noise pollution. i see neither thus far.

 

Me, i'm honest: i'd like nothing better than to get on a big sportsbike and thumb the starter and throttle to a deep glorious roar, plus if it adds some ponies than all the better; not some pseudo-safety issue. But i understand its an inconvenience to others; hence my argument is that if the aftermarket pipes meet local/international sound and exhaust emmisions restrictions, then lets allow them. its not got to do with safety.

[rickzhee]

Originally posted by mechwira@Mar 21 2005, 04:06 PM

The entire issue has been based on the following shallow premise:

 

Loud pipes ---> Others can hear your presence ---> "Life saved"

 

 

Questions:

 

1) For loud pipes to be a safety feature, it would be fair to assume that every vehicle should and would have loud pipes. In such an instance, how then would loud pipes continue to be a safety feature, if the above premise fail becasue others cannot hear your presence since other vehicles themselves have loud pipes as one's own?

 

2) For moving vehicles, you can hear the engines much more clearly when you're behind the particular vehicle then when you're in front of the vehicle. This is a real scientific phenomenon which is noticeable on the roads. How effective would the loud pipes be to fellow vehicles, considering its when the bike is behind that is when you need the front vehicle to be able to hear it?

 

3) Continuing from qn 2, how much safer would one be with loud pipes? What specific examples of situations can you offer whereby "loud pipes save lives"? Are the gains big or small? In light of such (in my opinion) small gains, how would one justify their use considering the very big compromise that one would surely incur in terms of noise pollution?

 

 

 

Surely anyone who wants to argue about lud pipes need to answer the above questions before he/she can convince ppl that 'loud pipes save lives'. you'll need to explain how they save lives, and why it is worth doing despite the inconvenience it will cause in terms of noise pollution. i see neither thus far.

 

Me, i'm honest: i'd like nothing better than to get on a big sportsbike and thumb the starter and throttle to a deep glorious roar, plus if it adds some ponies than all the better; not some pseudo-safety issue. But i understand its an inconvenience to others; hence my argument is that if the aftermarket pipes meet local/international sound and exhaust emmisions restrictions, then lets allow them. its not got to do with safety.

Question 1: -

Not all vehicles exhaust/engine sound the same. Unless the vehicle you are driving is 'too loud' or you have Noise Induced Deafness, you will be able to hear another vehicle with 'loud pipes' approaching. I do hope you have the experience of 'going out' with a group of loud sounding car/bikes. If so you will understand what I mean.

 

Question 2: -

Unless you are travelling faster then the speed of sound, the vehicle in front will be able the hear you coming. Although the sound will be more distinctive after you overtake him.

 

Question 3: -

Example of a scenario is pedestrians jay walking. They would be able to hear you coming b4 they step onto the road. Especially although wrong, when the bike is squezing between cars in a jam packed road where there's lots of pple crossing the road at the same time. I myself experience that. Luckily the old man who was about to step onto the road heard my ex-yoshimura & stop in his tracks. There was no time to react if he had crossed & I thanked my 'loud pipe' for that. Imagined if i had knocked him down the consequences would be unimaginable so what do you think is the weight of the gain. To help you visualise imagine that old man was your close relative. Do you mean I should have compromised the life of that old man just to reduce noise pollution.

 

You are not wrong in your arguement, we are just seeing it from different views & priority. Great to have your comments here. Thanks..

[mechwira]

Originally posted by rickzhee@Mar 21 2005, 05:32 PM

Not all vehicles exhaust/engine sound the same.

 

Unless you are travelling faster then the speed of sound, the vehicle in front will be able the hear you coming.

 

Example of a scenario is pedestrians jay walking.

A) where do we draw the line between a vehicle with pipes that are 'loud enuff' and 'too loud'? does it not occur to you then when all vehicles have loud pipes, the end result is a collective engine noise on the road that is 'too loud', thereby rendering pipe sounds useless? meaning u dun need to be in a vehicle that is 'too loud', just that when everybody has loud pipes it will be 'too loud'?

 

B)in the 'group of loud cars/bikes', were they able to distinguish between two other cars/bikes within the group not counting the vehicle the person is in? or is it only a case of other vehicles outside of that group can hear them coming but within that group, only a collective noise is heard? if only a collective noise is heard, but not distinguished, will it not be useless? As in consider the same group with everyone else on the road just as loud.

 

C)If you've heard a group of loud bikes/cars from your bedroom in the middle of the night, you'll also know about noise pollution. Are the gains from loud pipes worth the loss in peace and quiet? a lot of people dont think so. Basically people not convinced that the gains in safety not worth the loss in peace.

 

D)Your example of pedestrians: People will always point to the pedestrian not jaywalking, and vehicles slowing down at blind turns, as a more 'real' solution. Any close relative of mine would get an advice from me not to jaywalk without due care. We all accept that even if we talking about close relatives, much better to take due care when crossing roads then to allow vehicles to have loud pipes. you cant hear the engines of modern cars even up close; any jaywalkers out there complaining about such lack of warning when jaywalking?

 

How many people jaywalk near blind bend then suddenly vehicle appear, didn hear the engine, almost knock down, then complain about the vehicle being silent? And how many people complain about engines too loud especially middle of the night? Compare the two numbers of complains.

 

 

 

like i said, i want bikers to have a real and legal option of fitting aftermarket exhausts; at the same time, i want sound emission to be an enforced restriction on the types of exhausts that are legal.

 

Hope u understand i am not attacking you personally; but i vehemently oppose any notion that traffic sound levels should be raised for any reason; they should continue to be reduced. I am very bothered by the high pitched wail of 'knocked' 2-strokes and 'tractor-exhaust' scramblers and harleys in the middle of the night.

[rickzhee]

I understand where you are coming from & your perspective of noise pollution. Everybody has their own point of view & most will agree with your arguement. But there's always a minority that prioritize safety to comfort. Especially for those whom have lost close ones to traffic accidents.

[cb1300]

Originally posted by mechwira@Mar 21 2005, 04:06 PM

Loud pipes ---> Others can hear your presence ---> "Life saved"

 

 

agree.........

 

but in Singapore : loud pipes = $500 fine

 

[mechwira]

Originally posted by cb1300@Apr 8 2005, 12:12 AM

agree.........

 

but in Singapore : loud pipes = $500 fine

 

i've been trying to say that the second component of my 'equation', the part about 'others can hear your presence', does not work well enough to 'save lives' to justify such a move.

[Arcfire]

Originally posted by rickzhee@Mar 21 2005, 05:32 PM

Question 1: -

Not all vehicles exhaust/engine sound the same. Unless the vehicle you are driving is 'too loud' or you have Noise Induced Deafness, you will be able to hear another vehicle with 'loud pipes' approaching. I do hope you have the experience of 'going out' with a group of loud sounding car/bikes. If so you will understand what I mean.

 

Question 2: -

Unless you are travelling faster then the speed of sound, the vehicle in front will be able the hear you coming. Although the sound will be more distinctive after you overtake him.

 

Question 3: -

Example of a scenario is pedestrians jay walking. They would be able to hear you coming b4 they step onto the road. Especially although wrong, when the bike is squezing between cars in a jam packed road where there's lots of pple crossing the road at the same time. I myself experience that. Luckily the old man who was about to step onto the road heard my ex-yoshimura & stop in his tracks. There was no time to react if he had crossed & I thanked my 'loud pipe' for that. Imagined if i had knocked him down the consequences would be unimaginable so what do you think is the weight of the gain. To help you visualise imagine that old man was your close relative. Do you mean I should have compromised the life of that old man just to reduce noise pollution.

 

You are not wrong in your arguement, we are just seeing it from different views & priority. Great to have your comments here. Thanks..

Just like to highlight the first part... You mentioned, i quote "or you have Noise Induced Deafness, you will be able to hear another vehicle with 'loud pipes' approaching"

 

I would like to stress that, similarly to what mechwira has mentioned..... is everyone in Singapore is to have their vehicles fitted with loud pipes, the collective noise would be an environmental hazard.

I would also like to point out that while travelling on a bike at speeds higher than 40mph for long periods of time will possibly lead to noise induced deafness. Imagine that the sounds of the pipes from the surroundings are louder than that(due to the fact that everyone has a loud pipe).... would you go deaf faster? So the solution?? Get even louder pipes till you are permanetly deaf?

 

Simply to say, imagine youself at a disco.... to make yourself heard, you haf to shout really loud or be real close. You are in fact fighting with the loud music to be heard....the loudest person wins. Or you sms(visibility wins)

Take that to the roads..... the loudest pipe wins.....so you constantly upgrade your pipe till its as loud as a bladdy boeing(by which you would be completely deaf).......

 

Gd luck

[ghost04]

i personally also don like loud pipes. i mean 2 stroke ones. i prefer a louder horn. once at orchard a beng civic drove in a way tat we bikers can never get in front of him.once i managed to cut beside him i revved to get his attention but my wave too soft liao so at the red lite i finally moved in front of him but an RXZ behind me did not make it. then for nothing the civic revved like in racing mode. tail me all the way..then i think the RXZ not happy overtook him and blow rite in front of him. next junction we stopped and we smiled. sometimes loud pipes can be useful to let drivers know u are around them.

[dookie]

Originally posted by Keynes@Dec 22 2004, 12:42 PM

if you are approaching a car from its back, loud pipe doesn't really help the driver to notice you because when u move forward, sound travel backwards.

This is not true. Sound travels in all directions.

 

It is true that less waves travel forward because of the pipe's alighment. But as long as you are travelling slower than the speed of sound, the sound waves produced by the loud pipe behind you can catch up with you.( I think so far only concordes can create a sonic boom) The only issue is how much energy is left when it reaches you; the higher the energy, the more noise you will be able to hear.

 

I have been notified of bikers coming from behind many times on the expressway. Usually its loud 2 strokers. I agree that they let drivers know they are coming. But whether they save lives, I have absolutely no idea.

 

Even if they really do save lives, we must look within the context of Singapore to decide if its suitable in our country.

[w1n8]

well done dookie! you sure do still remembered your science. anyway, legalising 'loud pipes save lives' wouldn't work in sillypore coz we are living too near to each other, the mentality... self centered mindset... stress disorder... work too hard and no play... all are the factors and its been label as 'anti social' many times already. can you image when i push my sofa once too many times the uncle from downstair will come up and COMPLAIN!?!?

[w1n8]

Originally posted by ghostwaver@Apr 11 2005, 10:11 AM

i prefer a louder horn.

well, when a horn is too loud, its illegal. its just 'anti social'. but its ok for a cement mixer travelling on the road!?!?

[dookie]

Originally posted by w1n8@Sep 26 2005, 12:34 AM

the mentality... self centered mindset... stress disorder... work too hard and no play... all are the factors and its been label as 'anti social' many times already.

Actually I learnt these much later after secondary school.

But thanks for your compliment.

 

You mentioned our mentality...which I have pondered for quite some time too. Self centered...work hard no play...these are all very true. Everyday when I open my eyes to get out of bed, all I can think is money and how I can earn lots of it. Money for marriage, money for car, money to pamper my family, money to pamper myself, money to buy my own 5 rm flat, money to return my tuition loan.

 

Singaporeans are so driven by money and the circumstances and society molds them into creatures who can become very focus on this money making expedition. My friend who has started working said to me " trust me when you are supporting a car and getting married, you would be damn happy when your boss asks you to clock OT"

 

Well gone are the days when responsibility is going to sch on time and handing up your homework on time. Nowadays I see secondary sch kids or JC students, Im damn envious.

 

But come back to your sofa issue. Try to put you in his shoes, wouldn't you be annoyed? My sis always complain to her neighbour staying on top because they always hang out dripping wet laundry. I guess staying higher is better.