City Harvest Church

[Phantom00]

Quote:

 

i dnt hide anyting & act holy moly here. i tok the same way in my own church too but pple know tht i'm jus like tht, they r more interest in the heart & not how we behave & send pple for counselling.

 

Nobody is talking abt acting holy. I have been in City Harvest and I respect their high level of conduct.

 

What you are saying is in your church only the heart matters and you can "tok the same way in my own church" and your church is not interested in "how we behave". That means you can talk and behave in whatever manner you want and your church doesn't stop you, as long as you think your heart is supposedly right?

I think you're grossly mistaken. I have faith in your church that it doesn't operate that way. You are just living in self-denial.

 

Quote:

 

if ur intention is really to start a fight then u can go ahead with tis

 

Nobody is thinking or talking abt a fight except yourself. We can be firm and assertive in our tone when we make a stand, but only those with insufficient character will think in terms of a fight. What your heart thinks the mouth speaks. If you are thinking of a fight you will say it out. That alone speaks volumes, doesn't it?

[josean]

Originally posted by speedkills@Jul 27 2005, 02:39 PM

hey, thats really very bad. a statement like that is without grounds and you can be sued for that even if u meant it to be a joke. every single cent that the members gave are accounted for. pls refrain from such comments esp when it concerns money issues. if you rem about a year ago thers this person who accused my pastor of certain things and in the end went up to apologise on all the local papers. because his claims are without grounds. reading a "joke" like this simply disgust me. if you wanna tell a joke like dat, dun do it publicly, you might find it funny, but others dun. though i know nuts about law, but i know based on that you still can be sued. watch what you say.

ooooh kena sued ..

 

scary...

 

its a joke i came across else where and i cut and paste here.

 

nothin wrong abt that.

 

 

do bear in mind that sueing would put some organisations in the limelight.

 

remember the NKF incident

 

 

 

by the way, i have chosen the red pill.

[ah_tee]

i was laughing my toes off wen the fat gal in my class started distributing flyers abt CHC sueing pple in my lecture hall and it has nothing to do wif my course, she jus wants to spread the news

 

is this normal practice ?

[speedkills]

Originally posted by josean@Jul 27 2005, 11:29 PM

ooooh kena sued ..

 

scary...

 

its a joke i came across else where and i cut and paste here.

 

nothin wrong abt that.

 

 

do bear in mind that sueing would put some organisations in the limelight.

 

remember the NKF incident

 

 

 

by the way, i have chosen the red pill.

hey there, i am just saying becareful of wad you post. actually come to think of it, why am i even warning you when you are the least appreciating it. not like i am the one who is going to engage a lawyer. just be responsible of whatever you post. you can copy and paste it everywher you go. as long as its under your id and no quotes whatsoever, no one cares wher you got whatever joke / letter / essay from. it will be directly linked to you. btw, what has NKF got to do with this matter?

 

[speedkills]

Originally posted by ah_tee@Jul 28 2005, 01:12 AM

i was laughing my toes off wen the fat gal in my class started distributing flyers abt CHC sueing pple in my lecture hall and it has nothing to do wif my course, she jus wants to spread the news

 

is this normal practice ?

for your info, i dun CHC has ever sued anyone or will choose to do anything like that. What does it benefit a church anyway? what i was trying to tell Josean is that whatever he says could be liable for slander. whether or not people will sue him is up to them. if today i was the one and i was from a huge organization. if someone were to say anything like dat about me which is not true, for me, i will sue him defitnitely. but again, it is different for everyone. my heart isnt that big as much as i wish it could be.

 

anyway this conversation is not getting anywhere. the joke itself is not even a relevant topic to our discussion. if you wan attention, jus set up another thread and post whatever comments you wan there.

[ah_tee]

Originally posted by speedkills@Jul 28 2005, 01:43 AM

for your info, i dun CHC has ever sued anyone or will choose to do anything like that. What does it benefit a church anyway? what i was trying to tell Josean is that whatever he says could be liable for slander. whether or not people will sue him is up to them. if today i was the one and i was from a huge organization. if someone were to say anything like dat about me which is not true, for me, i will sue him defitnitely. but again, it is different for everyone. my heart isnt that big as much as i wish it could be.

 

anyway this conversation is not getting anywhere. the joke itself is not even a relevant topic to our discussion. if you wan attention, jus set up another thread and post whatever comments you wan there.

before u use the word "dun think" i hope u go find out first

 

 

some of my friends felt a religion shld be humble and wadever praises be done in a solemn way, unlike the doings of some modern churches

 

and lastly my advice to u, all religion teaches good and guide u thru the rite way, if someone has the wrong impression, kindly teach them gd beliefs of ur own religion, if they dont, leave them alone

 

 

no nid to get so work up n agressive, if u cant take some joke i think u r getting too obsessed wif wad u r doing, there are plently of jokes abt other religions also, of cos to certain extend then it becomes inappropritate

 

and pls open ur eyes n see properly whos the one who posted the joke

 

seems like u know the church well,

 

is it true the new building cost 24mil?

 

and the pastor lives in river valley condo ?

[speedkills]

Originally posted by ah_tee@Jul 28 2005, 03:25 PM

before u use the word "dun think" i hope u go find out first

 

 

some of my friends felt a religion shld be humble and wadever praises be done in a solemn way, unlike the doings of some modern churches

 

and lastly my advice to u, all religion teaches good and guide u thru the rite way, if someone has the wrong impression, kindly teach them gd beliefs of ur own religion, if they dont, leave them alone

 

 

no nid to get so work up n agressive, if u cant take some joke i think u r getting too obsessed wif wad u r doing, there are plently of jokes abt other religions also, of cos to certain extend then it becomes inappropritate

 

and pls open ur eyes n see properly whos the one who posted the joke

 

seems like u know the church well,

 

is it true the new building cost 24mil?

 

and the pastor lives in river valley condo ?

indeed like what you say. is ther any areas that i was being too proud of in any sense? pardon me then.

 

the reason i say dun think is becos i seriously doubt so and why should i speak on behalf of the church, right? i am just trying to clear some doubts and misunderstandings here.

 

and lastly my advice to u, all religion teaches good and guide u thru the rite way, if someone has the wrong impression, kindly teach them gd beliefs of ur own religion, if they dont, leave them alone

 

now what i dun understand is...firstly i did not bring other religions in. secondly, it was not a issue on religion if you care to read back before you type. the issue is city harvest church. and in what ways have i bothered them? now i think the only person thats really disturbed is you?

 

no nid to get so work up n agressive, if u cant take some joke i think u r getting too obsessed wif wad u r doing, there are plently of jokes abt other religions also, of cos to certain extend then it becomes inappropritate

 

and in what way may i ask you that i am agressive? if a doctor tells you if you continue "eating" certain things, you will be in trouble. is he being agressive? certainly not, if you continue doing, it doesnt bother the doctor in any sense just you pay for whatever you do.

 

and yes, i know there are many religous jokes around, some are really uncalled for. now if you would read the news more, maybe you will understand why the world is always in turmoil. why isreal and the islam nations are always fighting..are you saying that while the heat is on, your "church/mosque/temple" jokes will cool off their anger becos its funny? hello?

 

and pls open ur eyes n see properly whos the one who posted the joke

 

i never said it was you who posted the joke..i said in the first place. thats a reference statement.

 

seems like u know the church well,

 

is it true the new building cost 24mil?

 

and the pastor lives in river valley condo ?

 

i am from the church. pls define what you mean by i know the church well. its not a living entity,i can only say i know where the church is, i know it cost $48000000.

 

fyi, which 24mil building are you toking about? i am beginning to find your figures really doubtful. did you roll some dice and got that? or heard from "someone" again. people tend to say alot of things. thats why i try keeping my cool, but really...if i were you, i would jus not say anything because even the tabloids seems very off. hmmm.. and again, if you have read the papers some time back, my pastor condo was featured in the news frontpage. but wads wrong with living in a nice condo? if you even bother to find out a little more, you actually can earn royalties from tapes and CDs you sell thats yours and on top of that when you are invited to speak, you also get paid. so i dun see why he cant buy his family a comfortable place to live in?

 

 

:nono:

[ah_tee]

i tell u wad

 

i personally feel u r getting too overly sensitive, i have many christian friends, them and you (not all) are too work up wen pple has the slughtest comments abt their religion

 

same like the fat chick in my class who started distributing flyers

 

n i think i remember wrongly, thks for correcting me, i initially tot 24mil was an overkill for a place of worship, so now we know its 48mil according to u

 

in case u dun understand wad i meant wen i say u know the church well, i mean u r familiar wif the church, i think tis is common english

pls dont start playing word games wif me

 

and its perfectly alright for pastors, priests, monks to live in condos in central districts

 

mother theresa and her missionaries shld have likewise be ferried in limos, fly on private jets, have their own cruise ships wen they are doing their works, if u seen the condition they worked in, wont they have have deserved more ?

 

since i dun think anyone in sg, including any churches in sg, have did as much as mother theresa, if there is lemme know, we could nominate him or her for the noble prize

 

the sister mary tat i knows lives in the church n lead a humble life

[josean]

Originally posted by speedkills@Jul 28 2005, 01:36 AM

hey there, i am just saying becareful of wad you post. actually come to think of it, why am i even warning you when you are the least appreciating it. not like i am the one who is going to engage a lawyer. just be responsible of whatever you post. you can copy and paste it everywher you go. as long as its under your id and no quotes whatsoever, no one cares wher you got whatever joke / letter / essay from. it will be directly linked to you. btw, what has NKF got to do with this matter?

 

lets see.

how NKF issue is relevant here ...

 

 

1. NKF was seen to be doing the 'good deeds' for the public. eg. subsidising patients needs etc. aint it the same with CHCSA on helping needy folks ?

 

2. both organisations do not have their finances published. i last checked chc.org.sg and i couldnt find any yesterday afternoon.

 

3. both orgs have their funding by donations. difference only NKF by public and CHC by its members.

 

 

 

now with reference abt the joke i posted. which of it is not true ?

don't CHC have the practise of giving tithe ?

 

 

doesnt the bible say that GOD should be the centre of your faith, not the pope, not the hansome pastor, or the pretty girl that sits next to you every sunday? if so, doesnt that make GOD an equivalent of a recruitment officer ?

 

 

 

next on tithing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithe

 

if i remember correctly, the book of MALACHI says something like do not rob God and every christian is dutybound to give 10% to God

 

but look closely. the book is in the OLD TESTAMENTS.

We are currently living in what the Bible calls the Administration of the Secret (Eph. 3:9), which began on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1)

 

as such, we do not live under the Mosiac Law (the law during the time of Moses), where tithing was part of the law and a commandment from GOD.

 

this is also why the Catholic Church in SG does not have this practise too.

 

now, look at the NT.

i quote you 2 Cor. 9:6 - the more u sow, the more u reap. and it is NOT the more u tithe, the more u sow

 

its obvious that giving is encouraged. Give to who ?

look at 2 Cor. 9:7 - each Christian is to determine in his own heart how much he gives and where he allocates his resources among his brothers and sisters in Christ.

 

 

to me, CHC makes it look like we give to God, and God blesses His children. u can see from the examples where your church ask ppl to come up and share that they have contributed generously to the Building Fund or responding to the 'calling' to give your last $100 or whatever reasons. and God has blessed them financially one way or another.

 

it makes it seems that only when I gives generously, then God will bless me.

would you agree with me ?

 

this is NOT TRUE. why ?

God does not need your offering. God wants an obedient servant that remains faithful blah blah blah. u should have heard a lot of this by now.

 

the truth is, God gives first.

example u might ask.

 

i can't remember the passage but it goes something like this ..

we love God because he FIRST loved us, and we GIVE bacause God has given.

and the classic Jn 3:16. God GAVE his only son blah blah blah ....

 

in conclusion. i conclude that the practise in CHC is flawed. Tithe is no longer a practise. and your church makes it seems that members have to give to God so that i can get something in return

 

too lazy to give feedback on the COR 14.... another day ..

 

 

in case u were thinking.

im not a christian.

i was from CHC back when they were in katong.

i gave my building fund and tithe back then too.

i dun like CHC over their use of the wife of your senior pastor

 

dun try to change me around but feel free to argue over what i have mentioned in this post

[speedkills]

well, one thing i must say is that your believes on tithing and the old testaments are abit warp. why? if the old testaments arent important, does it also mean that the 10 commandments no longer stands? firstly, tithing opens the windows of heaven. indeed the bible says, when you sow you will reap. but how big of a open heaven over your life determines how much your able to receive. true? no open heaven = no oppotunities. (thats wad i strongly believe)

 

in conclusion. i conclude that the practise in CHC is flawed. Tithe is no longer a practise. and your church makes it seems that members have to give to God so that i can get something in return

 

in that case, only the catholic churchses arent flawed. because if you check all around the world, churches are getting their members to tithe. why? becos we do not give our tithes....we pay our tithe. this 10% we are paying in return for thanking the Lord for the 90% we can use. wher do you think your increase comes from? anyway, loads to say..but i gtg teach now. be back tonight to continue on post.

[josean]

Originally posted by speedkills@Jul 29 2005, 02:34 PM

well, one thing i must say is that your believes on tithing and the old testaments are abit warp. why? if the old testaments arent important, does it also mean that the 10 commandments no longer stands? firstly, tithing opens the windows of heaven. indeed the bible says, when you sow you will reap. but how big of a open heaven over your life determines how much your able to receive. true? no open heaven = no oppotunities. (thats wad i strongly believe)

 

 

 

in that case, only the catholic churchses arent flawed. because if you check all around the world, churches are getting their members to tithe. why? becos we do not give our tithes....we pay our tithe. this 10% we are paying in return for thanking the Lord for the 90% we can use. wher do you think your increase comes from? anyway, loads to say..but i gtg teach now. be back tonight to continue on post.

i was expecting u to use the 10 commandments as an example already.

 

that is not relevant.

i think u should remember this verse that goes something like this.

 

a new commandment i give unto u, that u love one another as i have loved u blah blah blah

 

i get no increase as im not a christian.

 

 

as for whether the catholic church is right or wrong, the numbers would tell you.

Catholism is supposed to be the 'true religion' as the pope is supposed to be the representative of JC after he acended to heaven.

 

this power is passed on by the ' laying of hands' blah blah blah.

 

 

im not a Catholic BTW. sometimes i think that they are hypocrites too. do no practise what they preach.

 

 

if u claim that the OT is as important, then somewhere in LEV says something like sleeping with your dotter or somewhere running along that lines. sorry i cant remember where exactly it is

 

so u choose to believe part of the OT but disregard the rest?

 

 

Yes, the book of Malachi does says that tithing opens the windows of heaven. but its still in the OT.

 

if u accept what i have mentioned on OT and NT and still practise tithing, wont it be considered as being kiasu? eg. i might as well tithe in case i dun have an open heaven.

 

in any sense, prosperity preaching is wrong altogether as what i have mentioned earlier.

 

will be awaiting your post tonite.

[josean]

Originally posted by speedkills@Jul 29 2005, 02:34 PM

but how big of a open heaven over your life determines how much your able to receive. true? no open heaven = no oppotunities. (thats wad i strongly believe)

by the way, pls let me try to paraphrase what u are trying to say.

pls correct me if im mistaken too.

 

 

u are trying to say that u want an open heaven so that u can have more opportunities. for that to happen u have to tithe.

[speedkills]

Originally posted by josean@Jul 29 2005, 02:58 PM

i was expecting u to use the 10 commandments as an example already.

 

that is not relevant.

i think u should remember this verse that goes something like this.

 

a new commandment i give unto u, that u love one another as i have loved u blah blah blah

 

i get no increase as im not a christian.

 

 

as for whether the catholic church is right or wrong, the numbers would tell you.

Catholism is supposed to be the 'true religion' as the pope is supposed to be the representative of JC after he acended to heaven.

 

this power is passed on by the ' laying of hands' blah blah blah.

 

 

im not a Catholic BTW. sometimes i think that they are hypocrites too. do no practise what they preach.

 

 

if u claim that the OT is as important, then somewhere in LEV says something like sleeping with your dotter or somewhere running along that lines. sorry i cant remember where exactly it is

 

so u choose to believe part of the OT but disregard the rest?

 

 

Yes, the book of Malachi does says that tithing opens the windows of heaven. but its still in the OT.

 

if u accept what i have mentioned on OT and NT and still practise tithing, wont it be considered as being kiasu? eg. i might as well tithe in case i dun have an open heaven.

 

in any sense, prosperity preaching is wrong altogether as what i have mentioned earlier.

 

will be awaiting your post tonite.

why is the 10 commandment not a relevant point to use? the whole Christian faith is based and deeply rooted upon the 10 commandments! there is a reason why from the beginning God wanted the 10 commandments to be laid!

 

that is not relevant.

i think u should remember this verse that goes something like this.

 

a new commandment i give unto u, that u love one another as i have loved u blah blah blah

 

so are you trying to say that the 10 commandment no longer stands as a new commandment is given that is you jus love one another? then i might as well tell everyone i am a christian and arry on sinning willfully. i can kill a person as long as i dun get caught. becos 10 commandments is no longer important. i can lie, comit adultery,dishonour my parents as long as no one knows? lol...if thats the case...i might as well be a satanist? their first commandment is "do art thou will" meaning do whatever u please.

 

as for whether the catholic church is right or wrong, the numbers would tell you.

Catholism is supposed to be the 'true religion' as the pope is supposed to be the representative of JC after he acended to heaven.

 

this power is passed on by the ' laying of hands' blah blah blah.

 

jus fyi, catholic means the universal church of jesus Christ. and not the current roman catholic. this is another issue on its own. i never believe anything jus based on numbers as well. you be stupid to do so...if the world has a majority of fa lun gong pple, will you set yourself on fire too because the number tells you?

 

and btw, all of us are suppose to be a representative of Jesus. not just the pope. because the bible in the new testaments, paul said"imitate me as i imitate Christ" we are Christians because we are "little-christ". and this is another topic too.

 

if u claim that the OT is as important, then somewhere in LEV says something like sleeping with your dotter or somewhere running along that lines. sorry i cant remember where exactly it is

 

so u choose to believe part of the OT but disregard the rest?

 

the bible in the old testaments had never encouraged anyone to sleep with their daughters. that is incestrous. any religion that teaches that is simply a cult. and if you read properly, the fact that the bible mentioned about people who were incestrous does not mean that it condones it. many of whom were destroyed. take sodom and gormorrah. the 2 cities of pleasures were destroyed. God's anger was upon them! and since when did i said i only believe the old testaments? hmmmm..please highlight to me.

 

Yes, the book of Malachi does says that tithing opens the windows of heaven. but its still in the OT.

 

if u accept what i have mentioned on OT and NT and still practise tithing, wont it be considered as being kiasu? eg. i might as well tithe in case i dun have an open heaven.

 

in any sense, prosperity preaching is wrong altogether as what i have mentioned earlier.

 

will be awaiting your post tonite.

 

again i have mentioned about the old testament point. i don't understand why u deem it as a kiasu act..i practise tithing because i fear God. i wouldnt care what men says and i would just obey what the bible teaches me to.

 

Mt23:23(this is a verse and spoken by Jesus in the new testaments!)

"yes you should tithe, but shouldnt leave the more important things undone. "

 

In fact, tithing was the only thing that Jesus praised the pharisees for doing.

 

1Cor 16:2 (TLB)

"on every Lord's DAy, each of you should put aside something from what you have earned during the week......... "

 

Lev 27:30

" a Tithe of everything belongs to the Lord...."

 

Deut 14:23 (TLB)

"the purpose of tithing is to teach you always to put God first in your lives!"

 

wheras a offering is given freely above tithes.

 

2 Cor 9:7, 2 Cor 9:8 (TLB).

 

all these verses from both the new and old should be enough for you to go and do a proper review.

[speedkills]

Originally posted by josean@Jul 29 2005, 02:05 PM

lets see.

how NKF issue is relevant here ...

 

 

1. NKF was seen to be doing the 'good deeds' for the public. eg. subsidising patients needs etc. aint it the same with CHCSA on helping needy folks ?

 

2. both organisations do not have their finances published. i last checked chc.org.sg and i couldnt find any yesterday afternoon.

 

3. both orgs have their funding by donations. difference only NKF by public and CHC by its members.

 

 

 

now with reference abt the joke i posted. which of it is not true ?

don't CHC have the practise of giving tithe ?

 

 

doesnt the bible say that GOD should be the centre of your faith, not the pope, not the hansome pastor, or the pretty girl that sits next to you every sunday? if so, doesnt that make GOD an equivalent of a recruitment officer ?

 

 

 

next on tithing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithe

 

if i remember correctly, the book of MALACHI says something like do not rob God and every christian is dutybound to give 10% to God

 

but look closely. the book is in the OLD TESTAMENTS.

We are currently living in what the Bible calls the Administration of the Secret (Eph. 3:9), which began on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1)

 

as such, we do not live under the Mosiac Law (the law during the time of Moses), where tithing was part of the law and a commandment from GOD.

 

this is also why the Catholic Church in SG does not have this practise too.

 

now, look at the NT.

i quote you 2 Cor. 9:6 - the more u sow, the more u reap. and it is NOT the more u tithe, the more u sow

 

its obvious that giving is encouraged. Give to who ?

look at 2 Cor. 9:7 - each Christian is to determine in his own heart how much he gives and where he allocates his resources among his brothers and sisters in Christ.

 

 

to me, CHC makes it look like we give to God, and God blesses His children. u can see from the examples where your church ask ppl to come up and share that they have contributed generously to the Building Fund or responding to the 'calling' to give your last $100 or whatever reasons. and God has blessed them financially one way or another.

 

it makes it seems that only when I gives generously, then God will bless me.

would you agree with me ?

 

this is NOT TRUE. why ?

God does not need your offering. God wants an obedient servant that remains faithful blah blah blah. u should have heard a lot of this by now.

 

the truth is, God gives first.

example u might ask.

 

i can't remember the passage but it goes something like this ..

we love God because he FIRST loved us, and we GIVE bacause God has given.

and the classic Jn 3:16. God GAVE his only son blah blah blah ....

 

in conclusion. i conclude that the practise in CHC is flawed. Tithe is no longer a practise. and your church makes it seems that members have to give to God so that i can get something in return

 

too lazy to give feedback on the COR 14.... another day ..

 

 

in case u were thinking.

im not a christian.

i was from CHC back when they were in katong.

i gave my building fund and tithe back then too.

i dun like CHC over their use of the wife of your senior pastor

 

dun try to change me around but feel free to argue over what i have mentioned in this post

1. NKF was seen to be doing the 'good deeds' for the public. eg. subsidising patients needs etc. aint it the same with CHCSA on helping needy folks ?

 

yes CHCSA is helping all the needy folks.

 

2. both organisations do not have their finances published. i last checked chc.org.sg and i couldnt find any yesterday afternoon.

 

CHCSA is set up to help the needy, the aged , the handicapped. with my earlier post, i have mentioned about AGMs wher in it, the finances and every area is being looked into. as you have mentioned, its the members who gave their money, now if thers anyone who should be unhappy about the way the finances are being channeled, whouldnt it be the members? why should the public be involved with something that they have not given a cent for? this is amusing me a little. but if you do feel that funds have been misappropriated..you can always get a auditor to do the figures.. good luck

 

doesnt the bible say that GOD should be the centre of your faith, not the pope, not the hansome pastor, or the pretty girl that sits next to you every sunday? if so, doesnt that make GOD an equivalent of a recruitment officer ?

 

yes that is of course! did i say i worship my pastor? with all due respect, he is only my shepherd and leader...above all i worship only one God. so pls, stop trying to assume things...many of your assumptions are groundless..

 

to me, CHC makes it look like we give to God, and God blesses His children. u can see from the examples where your church ask ppl to come up and share that they have contributed generously to the Building Fund or responding to the 'calling' to give your last $100 or whatever reasons. and God has blessed them financially one way or another.

 

it makes it seems that only when I gives generously, then God will bless me.

would you agree with me ?

 

honestly, when you give, God blesses you. i didnt say when you dun give, God curse you or something.. the reason why we ask people to share their testimonies is to encourage others to give. when we share our testimonies, we glorify the Lord and shame the devil. and indeed, many times when i personally felt that i wanted to empty my pocket and wallet, God never once shortchanged me. now how do you explain this, a stranger came up to me and told me he felt that God wants him to give me this cheque of an amount almost 10 times my offering? coindence? or maybe luck? come on man, if this kind of things happened to not jus me but many many others...surely this God is true and real? well then again, maybe you wouldnt understand otherwise you wouldnt be so against giving. in fact i do enjoy blessing others, i have in turned been blessed and i learn to be a happier person.

 

this is NOT TRUE. why ?

God does not need your offering. God wants an obedient servant that remains faithful blah blah blah. u should have heard a lot of this by now.

 

the truth is, God gives first.

example u might ask.

 

i never said God needed my tithe or my offerings. and yes..when we give, he is looking at our heart. then maybe you ought to do something about it too? instead of arguing here.. maybe you had not been a happy and cheerful giver? probably? mayve thats why you are so against prosperity messages...and you want to be a poor christian because poor = holy? i personally think that this is one of the most selfish thought. if you are barely having enough...how are you able to help others around you who are in need? how are you able to be a blessing to the world? why then did Jesus mentioned about the churches in ephesus that they were freely willing. giving and sending aid time and again.

 

in case u were thinking.

im not a christian.

i was from CHC back when they were in katong.

i gave my building fund and tithe back then too.

i dun like CHC over their use of the wife of your senior pastor

 

dun try to change me around but feel free to argue over what i have mentioned in this post

 

CHC has no right to use my pst wife that is SUN. and since when have we used her? it had always been the desire of my pst to use her vocal talents to impact the world. well well, i think you should stop assuming too much and start finding out more before you talk. i wouldnt try to change you either because i am going to spend my time more wisely than argueing with you based on your assumptions. i know you have been a member of my church maybe even before i was around..maybe due to some bad experience or again its because of your assumptions. i wouldnt know but guess probably its the latter. good luck to your path in life then. just rem that a joke may seem funny to you but whats the purpose behind it? is it a constructive thing to do even? perhaps you have never been put in the limelight of the nation before and you may never understand. its no fun. even for T T Durai.. he also had his fair share of judgement already. give him a break. people like you ought to do some reflections. the world would be a better place to live in with people who are more forgiving. and the latter would also be true.

[speedkills]

Originally posted by ah_tee@Jul 29 2005, 09:47 AM

i tell u wad

 

i personally feel u r getting too overly sensitive, i have many christian friends, them and you (not all) are too work up wen pple has the slughtest comments abt their religion

 

same like the fat chick in my class who started distributing flyers

 

n i think i remember wrongly, thks for correcting me, i initially tot 24mil was an overkill for a place of worship, so now we know its 48mil according to u

 

in case u dun understand wad i meant wen i say u know the church well, i mean u r familiar wif the church, i think tis is common english

pls dont start playing word games wif me

 

and its perfectly alright for pastors, priests, monks to live in condos in central districts

 

mother theresa and her missionaries shld have likewise be ferried in limos, fly on private jets, have their own cruise ships wen they are doing their works, if u seen the condition they worked in, wont they have have deserved more ?

 

since i dun think anyone in sg, including any churches in sg, have did as much as mother theresa, if there is lemme know, we could nominate him or her for the noble prize

 

the sister mary tat i knows lives in the church n lead a humble life

if even mother theresa deserve a limo to chauffer around....don't you think that 48mil for my God is too little?

 

given a choice, like i said earlier.....if God willing and i be very very prosperous, i would wan to build a house for the Lord thats far far far grander than the one build by king solomon!

 

well, i dun think i am over sensitive or wad. like i said, we are all trying to clear some doubts of people here...but here you are this joker came along and added comments which no one asked for and basically its out of topic.

 

yah you know what, at the end of the day, the fat chick has done something at least by helping someone stand up again on his feet. but you? laughing is the only thing you did...i wish you will be placed in a position like that and when something happens, you would appreciate it when a fat chick distributes flyers for your sake. :nono:

[MS]

Hey! Christian brothers and sisters!

 

It's good to bare your heart and soul to your fellow christians when you're down. Seeking God when you're dejected also raises you up.

 

But what is being presented here is a joke of Christ-like behavior!

 

God want us to be gentle. Gentle means to be not quarrelsome. Whoever is right or wrong is be judged by God. Anyway all of us fall short in the presence of his glory.

 

If someone else fires at you in the forum, no one gave us a right to fire back. God will deal with it. I have come across many pple who insist they are right but to the extend of slamming pple with humiliations whether on me or my friends. But that doesn't mean we otta fight back. Don't forget God sees everything.

 

OK, let's forget about this and shake hands ok? Whether the church is right or wrong, let God decide. I believe all of us has state our points clear enough. Not need to further turn the whole forum ugly.

[ah_tee]

Originally posted by speedkills@Jul 29 2005, 06:00 PM

if even mother theresa deserve a limo to chauffer around....don't you think that 48mil for my God is too little?

 

given a choice, like i said earlier.....if God willing and i be very very prosperous, i would wan to build a house for the Lord thats far far far grander than the one build by king solomon!

 

well, i dun think i am over sensitive or wad. like i said, we are all trying to clear some doubts of people here...but here you are this joker came along and added comments which no one asked for and basically its out of topic.

 

yah you know what, at the end of the day, the fat chick has done something at least by helping someone stand up again on his feet. but you? laughing is the only thing you did...i wish you will be placed in a position like that and when something happens, you would appreciate it when a fat chick distributes flyers for your sake. :nono:

ya, if a 48mil church is consider too little in ur pov, i say then dun u think those small chapels here n there shld be torn down, if according to u, all these small chapels may seem like a "disgrace" to ur god

 

i said mother theresa deserve this cos of the things she done for the pple, if u seen her background she can afford it, but she chose to be humble, n help the poor, tis is wad a real religion shld,

 

in my opinion the 48mil is a SPLURGE, its NOT NECESSARY, n since they can afford such money, it makes me worry abt how much true resources do they have, and monetary greed is a temptation (i m reffering to the convicted pastor)

 

48mil or a broken chapel, its the FAITH tat matters, y not use the money to do more good ?

 

mus ur faith to god be prove thru ur offerings? or the value of ur place of worship ?

 

friend, a religion is there to guide u, pls dun be too obsessed, from the way u argued about mother theresa, it seems like ur obsession has taken control of ur common sense

 

wake up

[josean]

Originally posted by speedkills@Jul 29 2005, 05:49 PM

 

yes CHCSA is helping all the needy folks.

 

 

 

CHCSA is set up to help the needy, the aged , the handicapped. with my earlier post, i have mentioned about AGMs wher in it, the finances and every area is being looked into. as you have mentioned, its the members who gave their money, now if thers anyone who should be unhappy about the way the finances are being channeled, whouldnt it be the members? why should the public be involved with something that they have not given a cent for? this is amusing me a little. but if you do feel that funds have been misappropriated..you can always get a auditor to do the figures.. good luck

 

 

 

yes that is of course! did i say i worship my pastor? with all due respect, he is only my shepherd and leader...above all i worship only one God. so pls, stop trying to assume things...many of your assumptions are groundless..

 

 

 

honestly, when you give, God blesses you. i didnt say when you dun give, God curse you or something.. the reason why we ask people to share their testimonies is to encourage others to give. when we share our testimonies, we glorify the Lord and shame the devil. and indeed, many times when i personally felt that i wanted to empty my pocket and wallet, God never once shortchanged me. now how do you explain this, a stranger came up to me and told me he felt that God wants him to give me this cheque of an amount almost 10 times my offering? coindence? or maybe luck? come on man, if this kind of things happened to not jus me but many many others...surely this God is true and real? well then again, maybe you wouldnt understand otherwise you wouldnt be so against giving. in fact i do enjoy blessing others, i have in turned been blessed and i learn to be a happier person.

 

 

 

i never said God needed my tithe or my offerings. and yes..when we give, he is looking at our heart. then maybe you ought to do something about it too? instead of arguing here.. maybe you had not been a happy and cheerful giver? probably? mayve thats why you are so against prosperity messages...and you want to be a poor christian because poor = holy? i personally think that this is one of the most selfish thought. if you are barely having enough...how are you able to help others around you who are in need? how are you able to be a blessing to the world? why then did Jesus mentioned about the churches in ephesus that they were freely willing. giving and sending aid time and again.

 

 

 

CHC has no right to use my pst wife that is SUN. and since when have we used her? it had always been the desire of my pst to use her vocal talents to impact the world. well well, i think you should stop assuming too much and start finding out more before you talk. i wouldnt try to change you either because i am going to spend my time more wisely than argueing with you based on your assumptions. i know you have been a member of my church maybe even before i was around..maybe due to some bad experience or again its because of your assumptions. i wouldnt know but guess probably its the latter. good luck to your path in life then. just rem that a joke may seem funny to you but whats the purpose behind it? is it a constructive thing to do even? perhaps you have never been put in the limelight of the nation before and you may never understand. its no fun. even for T T Durai.. he also had his fair share of judgement already. give him a break. people like you ought to do some reflections. the world would be a better place to live in with people who are more forgiving. and the latter would also be true.

the first 3 chapters of your reply regarding CHCSA and CHC vs NKF.

i answered your question on how are NKF is relevant so i am replying in what ways are they similar.

 

also, i was mentioning how true (to a certain extent) part of the joke is. i do not see anything defamatory there. unless u can correct me then i will take it back

 

 

thus, your response is unwarranted.

 

 

 

on the issue of tithing, i was giving my comments on what i felt things should be.

how your church wants to practise it is your church's problem, not mine. and i was giving my comments.

 

 

my assumptions ? maybe u want to look up the HARVEST TIMES for the 2nd half of 2002 dunno which issue.

Four pages of the Harvest Times for the second half of 2002 are devoted to the subject of “Giving that Pleases God.” The message is that “those who obediently heed the voice of God will continually experience blessing and increase in their lives.”

 

 

Many testimonies are given of how this has been fulfilled in the lives of church members. One member, for example, testified that he has been attending City harvest since January 2000. When he started supporting City Harvest, he was involved in “a struggling insurance business.” When he and his wife made their initial pledge, “For the first time in my life I literally wept because I knew we were going to give beyond our means”! Here, then, we have an actual example of giving until it hurts! Sure enough, though, he has prospered beyond his wildest dreams. His income in 2001 increased by almost S$100,000 from the previous year and the year 2002 was just as good or better. To boot, his entire family “was blessed with a seven-day vacation in Tokyo Disneyland, flying business class, staying at a six-star hotel...”

 

how does one react when u read this kinda article?

 

my main issue, is how it is presented, and how i felt it to be.

i felt it exactly like 'if i dun tithe, i got no open heaven, and God wont bless me' and 'i donate generously to the building fund hoping to get something in return'

 

something for your persual perhaps? not my problem. its your members $$$ not mine. no one forced them into it. this says it all for the issue on 'prosperity gospel' and i have nothing else to add

 

 

 

u might wanna read this article too: http://www.lighthouseprophecy.com/prophecy...heTitheLie.html

 

the URL says it all

 

period.

 

 

next on SUN aka HYS

click at your own risk:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a365/tankaywee/hys.jpg

 

 

In the 1999-2000 A Guide to Churches and Christian Organizations in SIngapore, they are listed as Rev H Kong & Rev Yeow Sun Ho

------------------------------------------------------------------

From City Harvest Church

SENIOR PASTOR'S OFFICE

Founder / Senior Pastor Rev. Kong Hee*

 

Personal Assistant Teo Meng How

 

Research Assistant Valerie Chiam

 

Administration Assistant Cynthia Chua

 

Chief Executive Officer Ho Yeow Sun ( note no Reverend!)

 

Creative Ministry Director Ho Yeow Sun (note again, no mention of Reverend)

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------

source: http://www.chc.org.sg/english/staff.cfm

 

 

 

according to the above, she is the music director cum CEO

 

Before she became a singer you will find her photo on the website as asst. pastor.When she started singing all the pop songs instead of gospel, and had lots of controversy over her singing,dressing and a great taste for branded clothes,she then claim that she is not a pastor but a music director. interesting huh. back in the katong days, ppl addressed her as PASTOR SUN.

 

on another note, she describes herself as a “radical and hip female pastor.” In another interview, she said: “I’ve always been hip. I’m the first pastor to dye my hair and the first to wear hip pants. I know people have a problem with that, but I really couldn’t care less” (Her World, p. 199, can't remember which month)

 

 

u asked.

was it not for her to use her role as a pop singer to draw in more 'un-saved souls' ?

if that is not true, then tell me why did i see HO YEOW SUN singing her POP MUSIC at the church main auditorium? i was simply disgusted at that partitular service. it was somewhere before she held her own concert.

 

there was no preaching of the word (i was there to pay a visit), just her singing, some demonstration to teach some dance moves, sharing of her life story of how her wreck she was before she was a christian and how many boyfriends she had before, and a short outreach session at the end. WHY IS THIS SO ?

 

her POP MUSIC has nothing to do with religion itself, would u not agree with me?

 

Of course, she holds the unscriptural philosophy that music is neutral: “To me, music comes from heaven. It’s not bad--it’s just music.” The musical style on her second album, Sun-day, is described as “ballad to acid jazz to R&B to trip-hop” (8Days, Dec. 26, 2002, p. 30).

 

 

and since CHURCH has nothing to do with POP, then why did the City Harvest Church magazine features 10 pages dedicated to Pastor Sun as a pop star? of which,Two pages are about the “Sun Fan Club.” (July-Dec 2002)

 

care to elaborate?

 

 

 

next will be the issue of the 10 commandments.

let me clarify what i meant by saying that its not relevant.

 

look with me to Matthew 22:34-40 (sounds familiar huh)

what is being mentioned is the GREATEST COMMANDMENT.

 

with partitular reference to verse 40 (good news bible) the WHOLE LAW OF MOSES and the teachings of prophets depend on these two commandments.

 

would you not agree with me that the whole law of moses include the 10 commandments?

 

if so, the greatest commandments has superceded the 10 cmmmds already. an example is like an ammendment to an ACT (law). would u still look back to the old law? probably not. but the old statute is still there, serving as a guide to what the amendment is about. perhaps i might have used a wrong example here pls feel free to correct me.

 

 

next, on the issue on slping with whoever's dotter. i have no scripture to quote u whatever, my apologies.

 

since u observe the laws of the OT so much,i suppose u dun work on a sunday too?

 

 

 

on the issue of CAT vs CHRIStn, thats another topic altogether. not relevant ... for now.

and the issue of tithe i have already said my piece. nothing else to add. btw, u havnt replied my post of me paraphrasing what u have said

 

 

 

some other points and scriptures for you to consider too.

 

Romans 12:1-2 “I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, HOLY, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And BE NOT CONFORMED TO THIS WORLD: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”

 

 

didnt CHC showed the game on the screen in the main hall on the night of the finals of World Cup 2002? where one of the pastors showed “their wild side,” with one pastor even ”doing a Brazilian samba number in the middle of the game.”

 

The church Magazine mentioned: “A sea of excited faces ... crowds arrayed in yellow and white ... waving hands lifted above many heads ... rousing soccer cheers of ‘Ole-Ole-Ole-Ole’ ... the ‘Mexican wave’ making exhilarating rounds across the auditorium ... snack sellers doing brisk business ... pounding music reverberating through the loudspeakers before the ‘kick-off’ ... a giant LED screen flashing Brazil and Germany flags.”

 

I don’t think the Apostle Paul would have enjoyed such an unholy ruckus in the house of God.

 

 

 

Hebrews 13:15-16 describes true worship: “By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name. But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.”

 

Note the attributes of true worship: thanksgiving to God in all circumstances, doing good works or obedience to God’s commands, and communicating to those who have needs. One does not need rock music to accomplish any of these things.

 

The City Harvest magazine contains a section on questions and answers. One question by a new member to City Harvest is instructive. “I just started attending church a few months back and really felt drawn to the presence of God, ESPECIALLY THROUGH THE TIMES OF PRAISE AND WORSHIP. Yet, each time when I try to meet God in the same way during my personal quiet time AND ‘FEEL’ THE TANGIBLE PRESENCE that I always sense during church services, I always fail. Is this because there’s something that I’m not doing right? Am I not worshipping in the correct way?”

 

The answer to the person’s question is that he or she is looking for the wrong thing and is confused about the nature of true worship of God. Worship has nothing to do with my feelings or with a “tangible presence.” Those things are easily counterfeited by the flesh and the devil. True worship is to give thanks to God and to serve Him obediently NO MATTER HOW I FEEL AND NO MATTER WHAT THE CIRCUMSTANCE. Abraham doubtless did not feel very good and had no tangible presence when he trudged toward the mountain with his most beloved son in tow with the purpose of sacrificing him in obedience to God’s command, but he was performing a most supreme act of worship. Job did not feel tingly, wonderful emotions when he was sitting in the ash heap scrapping his boils with pieces of clay pots and contemplating the loss of his children and wealth and rebutting his wife’s complaints, but he was worshipping God acceptably and fruitfully when he endured that terrible condition and did not curse God, but trusted Him in spite of how miserable he felt. In that horrible condition, Job said, “Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him.” That is true worship. It has nothing to do with being under the sway of powerful music or stirring up high emotions and pursuing a perception of God’s tangible presence.

 

 

 

1 Timothy 2:12. “But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.”

 

Yet Anne Graham Lotz preached at City Harvest Church as the main guest speaker at the South East Asia Congress of Evangelism (SEACOE) in 2002. In that forum, she preached to more than 1,500 pastors and church workers

 

 

i hope u still have a copy of the City Harvest Church Introductory Class booklet.

Under the section on salvation, City Harvest teaches that a sinner needs to do three things: acknowledge that he is a sinner, believe that Jesus died for his sins, and confess his sins to God and “ask Him to be my Lord and Savior.” In their statement of faith they say that “eternal life begins the moment we receive Jesus Christ into our lives by faith.”

 

That biblical statement is contradicted, though, by another statement in the Introductory Class booklet, as follows:

 

“Salvation is not a one-time event.”

 

As proof, they quote 1 Corinthians 1:18 from the New King James Bible, which reads, “For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but TO US WHO ARE BEING SAVED it is the power of God.”

 

isnt that contradicting?

 

 

Last I recall, this is an open forum, a place where one can post their views in a constructive manner.

 

 

lemme conclude with an encounter i has regarding my NS officer last time

 

He was telling us after CNY that a bunch of his wife's church friends came over. So as usual before meals give thanks to god for food, clothes, whatever. He was complaining to us, "KNN thank god for fu3k. I pay for the food and clothes. If I stop working U think he(referring to God) will feed the family issit. never seen them thank me before every meal"

 

*note my former NS Superior was obviously not a Christian

 

its nothing constructive thou.

[josean]

for those who wanna know more abt this church.

 

 

 

THE CHURCH BUILDING

 

The massive City Harvest Church building cost S$48 million (US$26.6 million). It is the first titanium-clad building in Asia and is modeled after the Guggenheim Museum in Bilbao, Spain. Special limestone for part of the building was imported from Europe. The Riviera walkway was designed by a world-famous artist. The elevators go from B4, which is where the auditorium is located, all the way up to level 5, which is the roof top area. There are more than 200 parking lots within the building itself.

 

Everything is elaborate and expensive. Comfortable lounge areas with expensive sofas are scattered around the first floor area, and large state-of-the-art plasma television monitors are built into the walls, featuring video recordings of past services. There are waterfalls, gardens, coffee kiosks, a children’s playground, fountains, even a putting green for enthusiasts who can’t get too far from a golf club. There is a large café on the 4th floor. The rooftop has a beautiful garden, a baptismal pool, a children’s wading pool, and a coffee kiosk. Cool Mist fans blast out moist air that can cool down the entire rooftop area to ward off the infamous Singapore heat. The bathroom facilities were created by French designer Philippe Starck. Even the toilets “exemplify the very meaning of style” (Harvest Times, July-December 2002).

 

The auditorium covers 1,700 square meters and is said to be the largest column-free church sanctuary in the Southeast Asia Peninsula. There are two artist make-up rooms directly beneath the stage. A large audio and video crew are required to create each elaborately-produced service. The sound is provided by a 60-channel console, the largest in the world. The stage was created by a designer who formerly worked with Christie’s Auction House in New York. It features a massive, bright LED screen.

 

The church charters 280 buses to ferry church members in from various parts of Singapore, making a total of 1,842 stops.

 

The senior pastor of City Harvest is Kong Hee, and the “First Deputy Senior Pastor” is his wife, Ho Yeow-Sun. Kong Hee travels frequently and has an influential ministry in the charismatic world. His 2003 itinerary includes stops in Taiwan, the USA, Australia, Russia, Sweden, the Netherlands, Malaysia, Hong Kong, and Indonesia.

 

 

obviously copied and paste from elsewhere.

[speedkills]

you know something, everything you have typed is all based on your self. and based on YOUR OWN experiences. no one can stop you from thinking that way and i am not either. obviously, i am wasting my time here. whether a church is right before the Lord or not, its never in your position to judge. you can critic for all you wan,no one will stop you seriously, advice can be given but i guess you are jus too self to take it in.

 

first of all, you claim that you are no longer a christian and then you jus go on and on and on about the bible and quoting it based on YOUR understanding. which many of which, is more than warp. firstly, if i had a choice, i wouldnt work on sundays because its a day when people all want to rest. in fact, if i could sit at home and jus receive money, i wouldnt mind a bit.

 

u asked.

was it not for her to use her role as a pop singer to draw in more 'un-saved souls' ?

if that is not true, then tell me why did i see HO YEOW SUN singing her POP MUSIC at the church main auditorium? i was simply disgusted at that partitular service. it was somewhere before she held her own concert.

 

arent you being stupid then? if you have something which can help you to be more effective, would you wan to use it? you buy a bike for what? so that you can get from point ! to point B fast. dun tell me you choose to walk because God gave you 2 legs. duh?!! over here we are talking about being effective and not being traditional.

 

disgusted? you have no right to be. its like the pot calling the kettle black. always reflect on yourself before you start pointing out to the dirt in others' eyes. and i am not refering to the religious context.

 

anyway, this debate should come to an end. maybe you can say i am not "zai" enough to reply you. but really, i feel i am wasting my time here. many things its more than jus saying. good luck in your believes. and if your goal is to bring down other people's views on Christianity...Well done. i think you have done a good job. but too bad, the church will keep moving..the church will keep reaching out. like i said, people do make mistakes, including me and every single believers or non believers. at the end of the day, our intentions are good, we are righteous as far as God is concerned. all else no longer matters.

 

period.

[speedkills]

Originally posted by ah_tee@Jul 29 2005, 08:40 PM

ya, if a 48mil church is consider too little in ur pov, i say then dun u think those small chapels here n there shld be torn down, if according to u, all these small chapels may seem like a "disgrace" to ur god

 

i said mother theresa deserve this cos of the things she done for the pple, if u seen her background she can afford it, but she chose to be humble, n help the poor, tis is wad a real religion shld,

 

in my opinion the 48mil is a SPLURGE, its NOT NECESSARY, n since they can afford such money, it makes me worry abt how much true resources do they have, and monetary greed is a temptation (i m reffering to the convicted pastor)

 

48mil or a broken chapel, its the FAITH tat matters, y not use the money to do more good ?

 

mus ur faith to god be prove thru ur offerings? or the value of ur place of worship ?

 

friend, a religion is there to guide u, pls dun be too obsessed, from the way u argued about mother theresa, it seems like ur obsession has taken control of ur common sense

 

wake up

haha... why dun you ask those small chapels around.. given a choice, would they want to build a temple as or even more manificent than the old temple solomon build? whoever said that the chapel are a disgrace?

 

i said mother theresa deserve this cos of the things she done for the pple, if u seen her background she can afford it, but she chose to be humble, n help the poor, tis is wad a real religion shld,

 

does buying big houses / cars means being proud? then i think the singapore goverment which include our founder is too proud. becos we shoulkd remain as a kampong and not upgrade to HDB.. living in a bungalow then is a SIN!!! beware man..

 

stupid idealogy right?

 

in the smallest ways we are able to help the poor, we have already done so. and we are continueing to do so with or without comments from people like you.

 

in my opinion the 48mil is a SPLURGE, its NOT NECESSARY, n since they can afford such money, it makes me worry abt how much true resources do they have, and monetary greed is a temptation (i m reffering to the convicted pastor)

 

indeed mammon is a big temptation. if someone ask me to be in charge of 48mil, i am sure i will be tempted to take and run to the other part of earth to live life. too bad i dun have that chance. but whether it is a splurge, its still your POV. to us who gave..we felt that it was money well spent. then perhaps kind david should plan to build a tent that stretches from one end of isreal to the other. because that could house more people to worship God? if you are talking about splurging...what about temples out there with a statue thats made of pure Gold. maybe one isnt alot...but what about hundreds of it? why do they still do it? because to them, thats the best way they could do to make their gods look good. you go tell them that they are splurging lor.

 

friend, a religion is there to guide u, pls dun be too obsessed, from the way u argued about mother theresa, it seems like ur obsession has taken control of ur common sense

 

wake up

 

firstly, i wasnt argueing, i was jus tryin to make you think. i think that most of my replies are written based on common sense. and yes, i am very awake thats why i can reply you.

 

perhaps its time you do some good rather than just keep pin pointing others. you think what you are doing is really good? benefitting the poor? if you think so, then good for you. carry on at it.

 

peace out.

[speedkills]

Originally posted by MS@Jul 29 2005, 08:14 PM

Hey! Christian brothers and sisters!

 

It's good to bare your heart and soul to your fellow christians when you're down. Seeking God when you're dejected also raises you up.

 

But what is being presented here is a joke of Christ-like behavior!

 

God want us to be gentle. Gentle means to be not quarrelsome. Whoever is right or wrong is be judged by God. Anyway all of us fall short in the presence of his glory.

 

If someone else fires at you in the forum, no one gave us a right to fire back. God will deal with it. I have come across many pple who insist they are right but to the extend of slamming pple with humiliations whether on me or my friends. But that doesn't mean we otta fight back. Don't forget God sees everything.

 

OK, let's forget about this and shake hands ok? Whether the church is right or wrong, let God decide. I believe all of us has state our points clear enough. Not need to further turn the whole forum ugly.

i agree. i have decided to keep silent. because a debate has no end. why prove so hard to be right? you do what you think is right, benefit the poor,honour the Lord...i do what i think is right, dun kill,dun murder, dun break any laws..

 

argueing here is a waste of time. if indeed you think that this church here is wrong and not suitable for you, the door is always open for you to come in or out. life is about choice..choose the path that seems right for you. no one is holding a knife at your neck.

 

If the church is misappropriating funds, i pray that God will deal bountifully with us. otherwise, life goes on..with or without any critics or disatisfaction. life goes on man.

 

so chill. continue believing what you believe, my only advise to all is always check on yourself before condemning others.

 

cheers!

[Guest Supertoad76]

I think one should post their arguement and let the peepz decide.... dun have to get worked.

 

Everyone has their own thoughts and just let them be... no point getting all defensive about it. Dun rebuke out of anger but answer with deep thought, then ask questions why? Why would he think this way.....

 

Sometimes when you decide to defend your thoughts/organsation, how you talk/type might either put your self/organsation in a good/bad light.

 

My own belief here, I been to CHC. I seriously think it tooo extravagant for my taste. That my belief....dun hang me for it.

 

7 deadly sins : Greed, lust, gluttony, envy, sloth, wrath/anger and Pride/vanity

[speedkills]

thats why i said no point debating all the way. the door is always open...everyone is welcomed to stay and go up to themselves

 

but honestly, surely as a member, i would try to clear any doubts..but defending it? well, i am not up to it..God will himself do it. why should i try defend God.. whatever happens, it wouldnt shake His throne anyway..

 

so be happy.. but if you really think that we build the church out of vanity/greed...then i think we are far from the standard. the bible says that the Throne of God is made of many precious stones the one seen in the vision of Isaiah when he was taken to heaven. we only have titanium clading!!! not titanium building...so its far less glorious. anyway when the church looks good....its not the pastor who will look good...maybe people will say, " thats the pastor of that nice church.." but no one will say, "wha his house very nice hor..he really rich siah.." because people all know that he didnt build it out of his own money tho he really made lots of sacrifices..hmmm... well,everyone got their own perspective...and i cant and dun intend to change them.

[sheep]

Originally posted by josean@Jul 27 2005, 02:06 AM

also an intersting pic i found too ....

That woman got constipation?!