STREET SMART

[smokegirl]

Originally posted by mike1024@Aug 13 2005, 11:50 PM

i have a question that i have been thinking about for some time. i don't know if this is the right place to ask, but you all seem like a very experienced and mature group, so here goes:

 

1. is it safe to be braking through a turn, even gradually? if not, why not? what are the likely consequences of braking through a turn? what i have been doing is approaching turns (left filter lanes, e.g.) at pretty high speed, braking till an acceptable speed to enter the turn, and then doing very light rear brake action to help make the tunr somewhat tighter if i find that my speed is still too high.

 

i everytime or mostly use my rear brake when turning or cornering...nothing wrong rite?

[Icefalcon]

i think just be careful not to lock your rear wheel can liao... if skid during a turn or corner...

[Spectrum]

Originally posted by smokegirl@Aug 14 2005, 10:13 PM

i everytime or mostly use my rear brake when turning or cornering...nothing wrong rite?

Braking is a Big Subject by itself...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v484/2100spectrum/Cornering.jpg

Rear braking is fine... what's more important is your entry speed.

Entering a corner too fast will give all kinds of problem.

Either overshooting the corner or banking too much to try to make the turn

resulting in a skid.

 

Ideally... Drop your gear maybe from 5th to 3/2 depending on the curve.

So as to be able to accelerate smartly when u exit the corner.

 

If u remain at eg 5th or 4th, then u may not be in the right gear to

Pull out of the corner.

 

Try not to change gear in a corner.

 

 

Adding to the Discussion...

 

Front Braking is actually more effective for bikes.

That is why the Front is given 2 disc brakes & rear only 1.

Using the Front will cause the front end to dive

eg. increasing the stopping effect.

So some school of thoughts is to apply 2/3 front & 1/3 back braking.

 

Some bikes like the Black Bird & ST has "linked braking."

Eg. apply any brakes & both brakes comes on.

In Normal riding... that's what u wanna do.

But some more advance riders prefer a choice.

 

Recommendation for Normal Day to Day riding...

Learn to Use Both Brakes.

Equally is fine.

Just slow down & enter that corner in a safe spd.

 

Note: Those that goes track regularly... your comments please

[chris 525]

Originally posted by smokegirl@Aug 14 2005, 10:13 PM

i everytime or mostly use my rear brake when turning or cornering...nothing wrong rite?

It is OK to use you rear brake when cornering, but never use your front brake until you are very very experienced. And never change gear until you are very experienced.

 

The reason for this is when you are cornering, most of the weight of your bike is on the front wheel. You apply the front brake, this will cause the forks to dip, and could lock-up the front wheel.

 

If you change gear on a corner, this could lock up your back wheel and cause the back wheel too skid, but a rear wheel skid is easier too recover.

 

 

But it is OK to use the rear brake on a corner, but dont; clutch in.

 

A front wheel skid will definitely make you fall off.

 

 

 

For experienced riders - My friend told me when you use the front brake in a corner, this causes the bike to go upright, but I have not try it yet, is this true.

[josean]

Originally posted by chris 525@Aug 15 2005, 12:01 AM

For experienced riders - My friend told me when you use the front brake in a corner, this causes the bike to go upright, but I have not try it yet, is this true.

i belive this has to do with the double disc brake.

i had that experience before.

 

to prevent braking in a corner, the entry speed is very important. never over estimate your abilities or u might end up kissing the metal railings on the side of the road

[slowrider]

Just pop in to say even with this topic called street smart many riders ( mostly P-platers) will be minced meat on the road.

 

What happened today on the AYE today at aroung 0910 hrs on my way to work was as I was travelling towards Jurong approaching Normanton I noticed a Kaw Kips P-plater with a pillon travelling just behind a taxi in the blind spot zone.

 

The traffic was already slowing down to about 60 to 70 km/hr and this rider ( looked to me as a type of 'Chow Ah Beng) wanted to squeeze pass the taxi at a critical moment when the taxi closed the gap!

 

His bike right handle bar hit the rear boot of the cab and his bike started to wobble very badly and within a few seconds crashed right in front of me.

 

Luckily I was driving slow enough and took avoidance action as the rider and pillon crashed right in front of me!...splattering all over two lanes!...helmets , slippers flying all over the place!

 

Even the next two lane of cars next to me had to take immediate action inorder not to kill these two stupid buggers.

 

What type of riders are these but those waiting to be killed. I only hope that other ppl don't get involved in their stupid acts on the road and get BLAMED FOR KILLING THEM!!

 

In this case, other ppl might think the taxi driver was at fault but in reality IT IS THE RIDER WHO IS TOTALLY TO BE BLAMED AND HOPEFULLY HE DO NOT EVER RIDE AGAIN!

[endlessloop]

On the subject of braking:

 

1. For road riding

 

It's unlikely we will brake near the limits of the bike and tires when doing any braking on the road, whether straight or corners. So I think that one can get away with using any number of braking methods (front brake, rear brake, intiate braking before bend, during bend, clutch in) whatsoever.

 

2. My recommended braking for most people

 

I would suggest this, which is what riding school is teaching:

 

Phase 1: Complete your braking on the straights.

The corner entry speed should be established before entering the corner and not while in the corner.

 

I will highly recommend using mainly, if not all of, the front brake.

I will highly NOT recommend rely solely on the rear brake.

 

Phase 2: Turn in towards apex.

Keep a small throttle opening to maintain speed when traversing the corner.

 

Phase 3: After the apex and possibly be before the exit of the turn, open throttle to accelerate.

 

This is also the most common cornering approach on the track for most people. It is a useful reference because on the track, we ride nearer the limits of the bike and tires.

 

 

If one wants to do any other way, it is ok because as I said, chances of one getting into danger is very slim on the road unless you really ride towards the limit. But if you want to be safe, I suggest (2).

 

The riding schools have already taught us the braking and cornering approach. I do not understand why one would want to increase our own risk or complicate our lifes by using any other methods for road riding.

[Wayang]

Originally posted by smokegirl@Aug 14 2005, 10:13 PM

i everytime or mostly use my rear brake when turning or cornering...nothing wrong rite?

its not wrong.. but u r not applyin wat was taught in the riding skool.. there is a reason behind most things they teach us..

 

the front brake is MUCH more effective in slowin down a bike when compared to the rear brake.. y ? cos when u r tryin to slow down.. weight is shifted in front and the front tyre bear most of the weight so it has much more traction than the rear..

 

u shld practise usin BOTH ur brakes.. no matter the situation.. cos if u r used to juz usin ur rear brake it becomes a habit.. in a emergency situation instinct takes over and normally u wld do wat comes to ur mind 1st..

[Wayang]

Originally posted by endlessloop@Aug 15 2005, 12:04 PM

On the subject of braking:

 

1. For road riding

 

It's unlikely we will brake near the limits of the bike and tires when doing any braking on the road, whether straight or corners. So I think that one can get away with using any number of braking methods (front brake, rear brake, intiate braking before bend, during bend, clutch in) whatsoever.

 

2. My recommended braking for most people

 

I would suggest this, which is what riding school is teaching:

 

Phase 1: Complete your braking on the straights.

The corner entry speed should be established before entering the corner and not while in the corner.

 

I will highly recommend using mainly, if not all of, the front brake.

I will highly NOT recommend rely solely on the rear brake.

 

Phase 2: Turn in towards apex.

Keep a small throttle opening to maintain speed when traversing the corner.

 

Phase 3: After the apex and possibly be before the exit of the turn, open throttle to accelerate.

 

This is also the most common cornering approach on the track for most people. It is a useful reference because on the track, we ride nearer the limits of the bike and tires.

 

 

If one wants to do any other way, it is ok because as I said, chances of one getting into danger is very slim on the road unless you really ride towards the limit. But if you want to be safe, I suggest (2).

 

The riding schools have already taught us the braking and cornering approach. I do not understand why one would want to increase our own risk or complicate our lifes by using any other methods for road riding.

personally.. i like to keep alittle throttle on when i enter a corner.. helps keep weight distribution equal.. and i never use my brakes when leaned over.. juz too dangerous.. front wheel lock = most likely low side.. rear wheel lock = recoverable.. but might result in a high side (even more scary)

 

there were 2 occasion when my rear wheel lost traction.. both times there were some water on the road and i juz corner like it was dry.. scared the hell out of me when i felt the rear wheel slidding.. but quite fun.. wahahaha~~ lucky stil in one piece

[ValenYono]

Originally posted by mike1024@Aug 14 2005, 08:59 AM

yeah, i can see that, but some times like along the expressways, it is not preferable to slow down that quickly, because there is a good gap between me and the vehicle in front slowing down. my small cc bike's pickup is not good, while the engine brake actually slows the bike down quite quickly. that's when i decide to clutch in and coast, firing up the engine when the car in front decides to accelerate again.

 

i still wonder - on a dry road, not going round a bend - what are the risks of clutching in?

 

what about around a bend? safe to clutch in?

If u clutch in around a bend, ur bike will tend to go upright.

 

On an expressway, I suggest u can look far and wide. Don't stare at the vehicle right in front of you, look 1-3 vehicle further. Dat way, u can judge if you need to reduce speed or increase it way in advance. Don't close ur throttle completely unless u are goin to make a full stop. Control ur throttle so that u can accelerate better when the opputunity comes. All of this done with a safety distance in mind(2 second rules perhaps).

[mike1024]

Originally posted by ValenYono@Aug 15 2005, 03:00 PM

If u clutch in around a bend, ur bike will tend to go upright.

 

On an expressway, I suggest u can look far and wide. Don't stare at the vehicle right in front of you, look 1-3 vehicle further. Dat way, u can judge if you need to reduce speed or increase it way in advance. Don't close ur throttle completely unless u are goin to make a full stop. Control ur throttle so that u can accelerate better when the opputunity comes. All of this done with a safety distance in mind(2 second rules perhaps).

actually, it is because i am looking through the windscreen of the car in front that i want to clutch in and coast - cos i can see the red lights 2-3 cars in front, therefore i am anticipating that the car in front will slow down too.

 

thus clutch in, coast a bit and wait for the car directly in front to slow down, then when he picks up, i do so too.

 

on my part, my speed is more even; if i do it well, need not use the brakes even.

 

but have anybody ever got into trouble by clutching in? in a turn? on a straight?

[yazidoff]

Suddenly start braking mid-corner can be deadly. Always be on safe side when gauging a turn, slower instead of faster.

 

For mi, trailbrake into a turn with a higher gear, pass the apex then drop gear + accelerate is the XXX man..

 

Of cos, shud know the corner speed 1st then know how much can trailbrake..

 

But then again, I onli do this in my HDB carpark.. 3rd gear brake, corner, drop 2nd gear, open throtle.. :thumbsup:

 

I love riding

[JackoFIRE]

hmm i wanna ask about those flip-up full face helmet,if u somehow fall on the tarmac*touchwood*,will the flip up still close as tight as it should be? or was it just for appearance? coz i was thinking of getting it as im wearing specs. Full-face + spec = ouch.

[Spectrum]

http://www.shoei-europe.com/en/img/ssc_stoerer.jpg

 

The Helmet should not flip up during a crash if properly locked.

 

Get a full face & it will never flip up.

 

As for Full-Faced Helmets...

A reasonable gd helmet

A space is provided for specs.

And There will be not discomfort.

[burningacid]

My method of braking before turning in a corner is to use engine brake + front brake. I always drop gears before reaching the apex so as to have the engine brake and to just tap the front brake lightly to control the speed, once entering the corner, i would turn the throttle to complete that corner. Unless i noe the corner well, i wouldn't wana play rossi with it..

[Spectrum]

Originally posted by mike1024@Aug 14 2005, 09:06 AM

spectrum:

 

thanks for the advice on trail braking - that explains why it feels better to be braking while entering the turn. in hindsight it does feel like the trail is being reduced, and turning is sharper.

 

besides the book (?) you quoted, what's a good book on this? where would be a good place to find it? borders? kino?

 

85. A Twist of the Wrist: The Motorcycle Roadracers Handbook

Code, Keith

Trade Paperback ~ April, 1997 ~ In Print

List Price: $19.95

 

The above book is available at Spore Borders.

And they can order for u bks not in the stores.

 

U may want to check out

"Total Control" by Lee Parks.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v484/2100spectrum/ResizeofFastMag01.jpg

 

Interestingly... The DVD for "Twist of the Wrist" is given free with the Latest Copy o "Fast Bike" UK Magazine. Aug 2005

Bought mine @ Funan Grd FL. $17.50.

It is also available At Times Bk Stores...

 

About 23min of video about corners & control of the bike.

The recording is kind of oldish... but the points for good cornering

remains the same.

 

At the end of the session... it recommends a 129min complete video.

Marketing lah...

I find the video helpful & interesting.

Cos to reading does not bring out as much as a demo

 

So maybe readers here may like to pick up a copy...

Better hurry... before it runs out. Enjoy.

[Wayang]

Originally posted by Spectrum@Aug 17 2005, 06:18 PM

85. A Twist of the Wrist: The Motorcycle Roadracers Handbook

Code, Keith

Trade Paperback ~ April, 1997 ~ In Print

List Price: $19.95

 

The above book is available at Spore Borders.

And they can order for u bks not in the stores.

 

U may want to check out

"Total Control" by Lee Parks.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v484/2100spectrum/ResizeofFastMag01.jpg

 

Interestingly... The DVD for "Twist of the Wrist" is given free with the Latest Copy o "Fast Bike" UK Magazine. Aug 2005

Bought mine @ Funan Grd FL. $17.50.

It is also available At Times Bk Stores...

 

About 23min of video about corners & control of the bike.

The recording is kind of oldish... but the points for good cornering

remains the same.

 

At the end of the session... it recommends a 129min complete video.

Marketing lah...

I find the video helpful & interesting.

Cos to reading does not bring out as much as a demo

 

So maybe readers here may like to pick up a copy...

Better hurry... before it runs out. Enjoy.

i got the summer edition of 'fast bike' and they gave 'a twist of the wrist' by keith code.. paperback book la..

 

urs is the dvd edition.. wah.. how can liddat ? damn sian of readin.. kinda complicated stuff inside the book.. but provides some insight to high speed riding.. wld love the try out the stuff tat is written inside..

 

anyway.. ultimately juz enjoy the ride la..

[Spectrum]

Originally posted by slowrider@Aug 15 2005, 10:25 AM

Just pop in to say even with this topic called street smart many riders ( mostly P-platers) will be minced meat on the road.

 

What happened today on the AYE today at aroung 0910 hrs on my way to work was as I was travelling towards Jurong approaching Normanton I noticed a Kaw Kips P-plater with a pillon travelling just behind a taxi in the blind spot zone.

 

The traffic was already slowing down to about 60 to 70 km/hr and this rider ( looked to me as a type of 'Chow Ah Beng) wanted to squeeze pass the taxi at a critical moment when the taxi closed the gap!

 

His bike right handle bar hit the rear boot of the cab and his bike started to wobble very badly and within a few seconds crashed right in front of me.

 

Luckily I was driving slow enough and took avoidance action as the rider and pillon crashed right in front of me!...splattering all over two lanes!...helmets , slippers flying all over the place!

 

Even the next two lane of cars next to me had to take immediate action inorder not to kill these two stupid buggers.

 

What type of riders are these but those waiting to be killed. I only hope that other ppl don't get involved in their stupid acts on the road and get BLAMED FOR KILLING THEM!!

 

In this case, other ppl might think the taxi driver was at fault but in reality IT IS THE RIDER WHO IS TOTALLY TO BE BLAMED AND HOPEFULLY HE DO NOT EVER RIDE AGAIN!

Thks for your Interesting Comments...

 

For one... Your alertness & quick response kept the Kawa Kip Rider

From further injuries. That's gd.

 

U had enough time & space to slow down.

And your action probably influence

the rest of the motorist around to do the same.

 

Save the day for the fallen biker & his pillion.

 

True... Many bikers will be involve in accidents

in the above case... lack of experience & perhaps also poor judgement

So the gap he was squeezing thru closes up.

He could be "In the Filter Mode"

eg Max alert and ready at both brakes when any vehicle on both side close up.

 

If "Street Smart" could reach him...

perhaps he may give himself a little more

space & time with such heavy traffic.

Or just simply wait for a bigger gap...

 

Who is to Blame?

In this case, the rider was rash.

Then... a vehicle may just turn into our path for no rime or reason.

Then the Driver is rash.

Crash!

And we will be the one on the floor.

And he will be walking over to pick us up.

 

Here we keep clear of "who's fault is it".

We keep clear of the conflict.

Read the situation & say...

Hey! danger ahead... Let's keep clear!

 

And if someone is able to prevent being injured

thru our discussion here...

This Thread would had achieve it's aim.

 

As For the Location @ AYE off Nomanton Park....

Before NUH turn off..

Just 2 mth ago...

A biker had a fatal accident there. 7pm light rain.

No witnesses. Hit & Run.

Biker Could had skidded & fell... Wet Rds. Poor Traction.

Vehicle behind... not as alert... or maybe just too sudden..

 

This stretch of Highway has 4 lanes.

Plus one coming in from Nomanton Pk.

Cars are Filter Left for NUH Exit.

And Now with the Connection to Alexander/Red Hill...

There is just a lot of Criss-crossing.

Spd camera ahead.... sudden slowing down veh. to keep 90kmh.

So Bikers.... please be very careful...

Maybe just stay in your lane till U pass NUH.

[Spectrum]

Originally posted by Wayang@Aug 17 2005, 06:59 PM

i got the summer edition of 'fast bike' and they gave 'a twist of the wrist' by keith code.. paperback book la..

 

urs is the dvd edition.. wah.. how can liddat ? damn sian of readin.. kinda complicated stuff inside the book.. but provides some insight to high speed riding.. wld love the try out the stuff tat is written inside..

 

anyway.. ultimately juz enjoy the ride la..

Wayang...

 

Next time we mtg...

We Trade...

 

DVD for Book...

[yazidoff]

85. A Twist of the Wrist: The Motorcycle Roadracers Handbook

Code, Keith

Trade Paperback ~ April, 1997 ~ In Print

List Price: $19.95

 

Think I saw it going for $49.++ at borders.. Is very good though.

 

Interestingly... The DVD for "Twist of the Wrist" is given free with the Latest Copy o "Fast Bike" UK Magazine. Aug 2005

 

Heyy thanks for the tip!!

[Spectrum]

Originally posted by yazidoff@Aug 18 2005, 11:20 AM

Think I saw it going for $49.++ at borders.. Is very good though.

 

 

 

Heyy thanks for the tip!!

Sorry about the Price... Think it is in US$.

Brought my bk "Total Control" for about $43 Spore.

 

Anyway... Can always Review the Bks with a nice cup of Coffee...

 

Click to Reveiw Bks Available @ Borders Spore

[Wayang]

spec.. juz wonderin.. whr u found all the pics of the bikers on hornets ?

[Ravon11]

Originally posted by Wayang@Aug 18 2005, 04:03 PM

spec.. juz wonderin.. whr u found all the pics of the bikers on hornets ?

ask a fren to take pics of u when u ride la..!!

[Wayang]

Originally posted by Ravon11@Aug 18 2005, 10:26 PM

ask a fren to take pics of u when u ride la..!!

[Spectrum]

Pics are from websites... hope u like them.

Plenty of Nice Hornets in the Web...