SBF Silverwings / HOM Cafe 2012

[daimtastic]

Hi all, I would like to ask if anyone knows what is the weight of the original rollers for the SW-T400. Thank you!!!

[SW9000]

stock rollers are 28g for FJS 400 Euro and SWT 400.

[daimtastic]

stock rollers are 28g for FJS 400 Euro and SWT 400.

 

Thanks SW9000 for the reply. So if i want more low end acceleration, i can change the rollers to lighter ones, Malossi 24Grams?

 

Other than Malossi, are there any other brands that sell rollers suitable for SW-T400?

 

Thank you!!!

[etkach3]

So far there are no SG bike shop carrying hagon shocks. If you going for hagon shocks, you have place order overseas.

 

SW rear shocks can buy online. See below.

 

Thanks guys:) ill check it out:thumb:

Edited August 17, 2011 by etkach3

[scoobydoo]

Thanks SW9000 for the reply. So if i want more low end acceleration, i can change the rollers to lighter ones, Malossi 24Grams?

 

Other than Malossi, are there any other brands that sell rollers suitable for SW-T400?

 

Thank you!!!

yes, using lighter rollers "allows" faster acceleration BUT you will be running bike at higher rpms... consums for fuel??

 

this is due to the science of centrifugal forces acting in the variator... rate of spinning (rpm) and weight of rollers (mass object) reacts to create centrifugal forces which "change the gears".

* spinning fling/push the rollers outwards from the axis which in turn pushes the ramp and movable drive plates apart.

* movement squeeze the drive plates (which hold the belt) closer and forces the belt to move outwards ("idle" position is closer to the crank shaft).

* when belt at front variator increases it circumference, it pulls itself inwards at the rear variator (idle position is away from drive shaft).

* when front has smaller circumference and rear has larger circumference, this is the equivalent of low gear; many rotations at front is required to cause 1 rotation at rear.

* when front has larger circumference and rear has smaller circumference, this is the equivalent of high gear; 1 rotation at front causes many rotations at rear.

 

read the SW Tech Corner at sticky for more about how a scooter's CVT transmission works.

 

some SWingers have used Dr Pulley sliding rollers (lighter than stock):

http://www.unionmaterial.com/vsScooterTypeAll.htm

stock = 28g

sliding rollers = 24g or 26g

some riders have posted their review/feedback in the forum and seems some experienced faster wear-n-tear after using. however, manufacturer/resellers claimed no such issue.

 

personally, my CVT is 100% stock... to each their own.

temptations by pollini and malossi products are still very strong though

 

check this out:

http://www.malossistore.eu/famiglia2.aspx?M=150&MM=MO%2fHOSI400

http://www.malossistore.eu/famiglia2.aspx?M=150&MM=MO%2fHOSW400

malossi as a "whole" set for SW (variator, belt, clutch, springs, etc.)

Edited August 17, 2011 by scoobydoo

[anodise57]

Swinger Guru is GOod!!!!

[daimtastic]

yes, using lighter rollers "allows" faster acceleration BUT you will be running bike at higher rpms... consums for fuel??

 

this is due to the science of centrifugal forces acting in the variator... rate of spinning (rpm) and weight of rollers (mass object) reacts to create centrifugal forces which "change the gears".

 

 

read the SW Tech Corner at sticky for more about how a scooter's CVT transmission works.

 

some SWingers have used Dr Pulley sliding rollers (lighter than stock):

http://www.unionmaterial.com/vsScooterTypeAll.htm

stock = 28g

sliding rollers = 24g or 26g

some riders have posted their review/feedback in the forum and seems some experienced faster wear-n-tear after using. however, manufacturer/resellers claimed no such issue.

 

personally, my CVT is 100% stock... to each their own.

temptations by pollini and malossi products are still very strong though

 

check this out:

http://www.malossistore.eu/famiglia2.aspx?M=150&MM=MO%2fHOSI400

http://www.malossistore.eu/famiglia2.aspx?M=150&MM=MO%2fHOSW400

malossi as a "whole" set for SW (variator, belt, clutch, springs, etc.)

 

Thank you scooby for the reply. May i know where can i get malossi/polini rollers? Thanks.

[etkach3]

Just about to order Hagon shock den i saw some leaking from my front suspension:(

 

Need advice:

 

1) How much to repair the leaking?

2) Is it better to change to hyperpro?

3) How much is hyperpro spring and any recommended workshop?

 

Help me

[etkach3]

Thank you scooby for the reply. May i know where can i get malossi/polini rollers? Thanks.

 

I called tai hin just now...he recommed me use Dr. pulley rollers...i read about dr. pulley in silverwing forum in US they say its better den polini and malossi...

Just change the rollers and you can feel the zoommm...hmm...itchy to try it out..

 

but first i need help in my front suspension:(

[TitanicLexus]

Just about to order Hagon shock den i saw some leaking from my front suspension:(

 

Need advice:

 

1) How much to repair the leaking?

2) Is it better to change to hyperpro?

3) How much is hyperpro spring and any recommended workshop?

 

Help me

 

Bro, my suggestion to you is change the front suspension spring to hyperpro first, then just consider hagon. Most of the SWgers bro here have upgraded to hyperpro but will continue their stock rear suspension. To answer your question, please see below;

 

1. Leaking can be solved, just buy the original fork seal from FJT or Ever success and buy the fork protector from LAB, total cost abt $50-$60 cant remember liao, after go to your preference bikeshop to install it.

2. Yes, definitely improve alot.

3. Can find from;

a) Can order from Motoworld, cost abt $280 with installation, but need to wait abt 3 mths for shipment. The cost is only for spring and fork oil, you have to buy the fork seal yourself. Can try your luck if got cancellation stock or extra i got mine done at Motoworld, i buy fork seal and protector for them to install all together.

b) Do hear from one bro, Unique carry in stock for hyperpro spring, cost abt $300++ with installation and fork seal included. Give a call to them and check it out.

 

Since your front fork is leaking, why don't upgrade to hyperpro, save the cost for fork seal and fork oil if their price inclusive all. Hagon you can consider later on since is still working fine. Not sure how soft your rear suspension, if u want to try my stock one, maybe i can pass u mine. I leave at ah choong there, hopefully he din throw it lah.

Edited August 17, 2011 by TitanicLexus

[etkach3]

Bro, my suggestion to you is change the front suspension spring to hyperpro first, then just consider hagon. Most of the SWgers bro here have upgraded to hyperpro but will continue their stock rear suspension. To answer your question, please see below;

 

1. Leaking can be solved, just buy the original fork seal from FJT or Ever success and buy the fork protector from LAB, total cost abt $50-$60 cant remember liao, after go to your preference bikeshop to install it.

2. Yes, definitely improve alot.

3. Can find from;

a) Can order from Motoworld, cost abt $280 with installation, but need to wait abt 3 mths for shipment. The cost is only for spring and fork oil, you have to buy the fork seal yourself. Can try your luck if got cancellation stock or extra i got mine done at Motoworld, i buy fork seal and protector for them to install all together.

b) Do hear from one bro, Unique carry in stock for hyperpro spring, cost abt $300++ with installation and fork seal included. Give a call to them and check it out.

 

Since your front fork is leaking, why don't upgrade to hyperpro, save the cost for fork seal and fork oil if they price inclusive all. Hagon you can consider later on since is still working fine. Not sure how soft your rear suspension, if u want to try my stock one, maybe i can pass u mine. I leave at ah choong there, hopefully he din throw it lah.

 

Hi titanicexus, thanks for the input..i call a bike shop, he quote me $160 just to change the fork seal and oil..ex sia..might as well change the front spring at one go:)...ill try call unique see wthr they have hyperpro;)

my rear i use level 5 it seem to be better already compare to level 3..

[TitanicLexus]

Hi titanicexus, thanks for the input..i call a bike shop, he quote me $160 just to change the fork seal and oil...ill try call unique see wthr they have hyperpro;)

my rear i use level 5 it seem to be better already compare to level 3..

 

Wah sei, $160.... i rather pay more to take hyperpro. Try to ask other shop like ah choong, futurescootering and K&T to check out the price? If Unique got hyperpro and inclusive of fork seal, can consider to take. Cheers.

[etkach3]

Wah sei, $160.... i rather pay more to take hyperpro. Try to ask other shop like ah choong, futurescootering and K&T to check out the price? If Unique got hyperpro and inclusive of fork seal, can consider to take. Cheers.

 

yup i called unique..he say he'll check and get back to me..he say shld have in stock...i call other shops also they quote me about the same price for fork seal and oil +/- 150..so ex sia..now waiting for unique to call me..

 

anyways, any of the silver wing users uses dr. pulley rollers?

[Fusionjaz]

 

anyways, any of the silver wing users uses dr. pulley rollers?

 

I don't have the experience of installing dr. Pulley rollers. But I do ever see the damage done after installing dr pulley rollers. The square rollers will cause friction damage on the roller guides in the variator. If you Want a higher torque, you can try installing a after market torque spring. I am running malossi torque spring.

[TitanicLexus]

If you Want a higher torque, you can try installing a after market torque spring. I am running malossi torque spring.

 

Improve pick up bo? where you install and how much the spring huh?

[TitanicLexus]

deleted... double post....

Edited August 18, 2011 by TitanicLexus

[etkach3]

I don't have the experience of installing dr. Pulley rollers. But I do ever see the damage done after installing dr pulley rollers. The square rollers will cause friction damage on the roller guides in the variator. If you Want a higher torque, you can try installing a after market torque spring. I am running malossi torque spring.

 

Improve pick up bo? where you install and how much the spring huh?

 

Serious will cause damaged to the variator?..I confuse alrdy bro..coz i read the US silverwing forum they say its good..

den i try to call tai hin pte ltd (Dr Pulley Distributor in Sg) they say Dr. Pulley is better than the malossi spring and polini is as good as using stock..

aiyoooo..i super confused alrdy...i want my bike to have a fast pickup and high top end..

 

Hows the malossi torque spring bro?feel any diff after installing?

[etkach3]

I found this review on Dr. Pulley Rollers:

 

http://www.scootermaxi.com/index.php?contentID=589&articleID=4187

 

http://www.silverwing600.com/t448p15-dr-pulley-sliders

 

"I've finally received my Dr. Pulley Sliders from Scootertrap yesterday. Installed them today and we're up and running. My results are pretty consistent with JeffR and most everyone elses. I am seeing a solid 400 RPM drop from 60 on up. The bike will not have to labor as hard at cruising speed and I am expecting to see somewhat of a fuel milage increase as a result. Is it faster off the bottom end? Well..... I don't know for sure. I have done some 0-60 tests with a stop watch in the past and I may do it again to see if there is an appreciable difference with the Dr. Pulley sliders. It doesn't seem any slower but I'll just have to test and see. More to come."

 

Tempting to try..

It say it can boost yr accleration and safe fuel

Edited August 18, 2011 by etkach3

[scoobydoo]

before jumping into any 'enhancements", we should try to understand how/why each of them works to improve performance.

 

in this case, can consider both torque and clutch springs. its not that a few horses are gained but more about harvesting a little more torque from higher rpm. for better pickup, we need higher torque.

the 400cc SW's max torque is listed as 37.00 Nm at 6500 rpm. looking at a typical dyno chart for torque-to-rpm, we'ld know that torque climbs as rpm increases, peaking at the max torque rpm before it starts to drop.

The rpm where the maximum torque is delivered, is the rpm where the fuel is burned most efficiently: it is at that rpm that the piston delivers the maximum torque on the crank.

 

torque clutch springs holds the 5x clutch pegs in their natural position (closed), acting against centrifugal forces as the rear variator/clutch assembly spins. i.e. "stiffer" springs need higher centrifugal forces to fling the clutch pegs outwards so that they could bite/hold/turn the clutch bell which is mounted to final drive shaft; the shaft turns the gears and eventually rear wheel. to obtain higher centrifugal forces, clutch assembly needs to spin at higher revolutions, thus higher rpm from engine is required. with higher rpm (say 3+k instead of 2+k when moving off), we run the engine into higher torque band thus we get better pick up.

 

Torque spring is a spring that is pressing on the rear variatior. Installing a higher tension spring will increase the overall torque curve. You will feel it when the scoot is going up slope (Benjamin Shears bridge). You will have more torque to conquer up hill roads but lose out on top speed.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg207/fusionjaz/GEDC0588.jpg

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg207/fusionjaz/129c22cb.jpg

 

btw, there's a price to pay... burns more fuel

 

 

 

apologies: the mentioned springs that holds the clutch pegs in should be clutch springs, not torque springs... my bad

Edited August 18, 2011 by scoobydoo

[scoobydoo]

Serious will cause damaged to the variator?..I confuse alrdy bro..coz i read the US silverwing forum they say its good..

den i try to call tai hin pte ltd (Dr Pulley Distributor in Sg) they say Dr. Pulley is better than the malossi spring and polini is as good as using stock..

have you seen a fish monger telling people that his fish stock is very fresh? plenty of them!

have you seen a fish monger telling people that his fish stock is not very fresh and we may have problem after eating them? well, i haven't, would love to meet one and buy him/her coffee

 

imo, the sliding rollers should help in improving pickup since they are lighter than stock ones. but everything comes with a price and what riders are concerned is the corresponding costs such as maintenance, rollers replacement, earlier variator replacement (wear-n-tear), etc.

 

tai hin is sole distributor for Dr Pulley sliding rollers so i'ld be very surprised if jackye doesn't sing a nice song

 

this is tai hin's warranty notice:

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forums/showthread.php/294842-Dr.-Pulley-Sole-distributor-in-Singapore!!!

Warrenty Notice: There are news spreading around by some people saying sliding rollers wear out the variator, so to make our customer feel safe on using our product, we will replace your variator to a brand new one if your variator is wear out by the sliding rollers that installed by Tai Hin.

 

Note: Warrenty does not cover normal wear and tear.

 

p/s: To prevent your variator from wearing out, please change rollers every 12000 km (original variator) and multivar every 5000km. Improper installation, wrong weights and size will wear the variator too

on stock, i change rollers at around 20k cycle... this one at 12k

 

what is "normal wear n tear"? running with stock, i changed my variator plate around 30+k and that's because of wearing at belt face ("groves" created by belt), the roller ramps inside and the movable drive plate are still in ok conditions.

multivar is the equivalent of of variator, change every 5k. normal???

 

malossi multivar 2000:

http://www.taihin.sg/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/Malossi_VARIATOR_49f27e484a8e8.jpg

Edited August 18, 2011 by scoobydoo

[Fusionjaz]

torque springs holds the 5x clutch pegs in their natural position (closed)

 

The spring that holds the 5x clutch pegs is called clutch spring. Installing a higher tension clutch spring requires a higher spin rate. Thus moving off with higher torque.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg207/fusionjaz/322.jpg

 

Torque spring is a spring that is pressing on the rear variatior. Installing a higher tension spring will increase the overall torque curve. You will feel it when the scoot is going up slope (Benjamin Shears bridge). You will have more torque to conquer up hill roads but lose out on top speed.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg207/fusionjaz/GEDC0588.jpg

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg207/fusionjaz/129c22cb.jpg

[etkach3]

have you seen a fish monger telling people that his fish stock is very fresh? plenty of them!

have you seen a fish monger telling people that his fish stock is not very fresh and we may have problem after eating them? well, i haven't, would love to meet one and buy him/her coffee

 

imo, the sliding rollers should help in improving pickup since they are lighter than stock ones. but everything comes with a price and what riders are concerned is the corresponding costs such as maintenance, rollers replacement, earlier variator replacement (wear-n-tear), etc.

 

 

tai hin is sole distributor for Dr Pulley sliding rollers so i'ld be very surprised if jackye doesn't sing a nice song

 

this is tai hin's warranty notice:

 

on stock, i change rollers at around 20k cycle... this one at 12k

 

what is "normal wear n tear"? running with stock, i changed my variator plate around 30+k and that's because of wearing at belt face ("groves" created by belt), the roller ramps inside and the movable drive plate are still in ok conditions.

multivar is the equivalent of of variator, change every 5k. normal???

 

malossi multivar 2000:

http://www.taihin.sg/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/Malossi_VARIATOR_49f27e484a8e8.jpg

 

 

wahh multivar every 5k?..aiyoooo..

 

Any recoomedation on my Sw if i want to increase the pickup..

Mine feels like struggling to pick up speed:(

 

thanks scoobydoo:thumb:

[scoobydoo]

ahhh... tot that one is called contra spring? now i know its called torque spring... hehe

thanks bro, for correcting my blunder

my bad... corrected earlier post liow.

 

like Fusionjaz mentioned, with a stiffer torque spring pushing pressing on the 2 rear variatior together, higher force (thus higher rpm) from belt is needed to pry the plates apart before belt can go inner for smaller circumference (gear ratio). effect is similar to delaying gear change in normal gear transmission bikes.

 

thus if want to have hardcore effect for pickup, change both clutch springs and torque spring... but probably more noisy and more jia yiu lor

 

another effect of using a stiffer torque spring is, for better "engine brake" and "dropping gear" as a stiffer spring will more quickly move the belt outwards (by closing the 2 rear variator plates) once throttle is closed. this is important at slopes where we want to "drop gear" and throttle off as desired. i understand that many scooterists somehow dun like engine brake effect

Edited August 18, 2011 by scoobydoo

[daimtastic]

let me try to draw a summary to the roller weights, torque (contra) spring and clutch spring.

 

Clutch spring, this is the easiest, a harder clutch spring will cause the clutch to engage later, a softer one will cause the clutch to engage earlier.

 

Roller weights and torque spring i think they are interlinked, please correct me if i'm wrong.

 

Roller weight - lighter=better low end acceleration, reach top gear slower and at higher RPM. heavier=better high end acceleration, reach top gear faster and at lower RPM

 

Torque (contra) spring - harder=torque curve shifts, higher torque for the lower speeds. softer=higher torque for the higher speeds

 

I find that the effects on changing the roller weight and torque spring are similar. My question is: Are the effects of using lighter roller weights and harder torque spring the same? Would there be any difference, pros and cons?

 

Thanks

Edited August 18, 2011 by daimtastic

[Fusionjaz]

ahhh... tot that one is called contra spring?

 

 

O so contra spring ney