Rebuilding an R1 Engine

[Terrible One]

mind ask what's the problem with this engine when u first bought it?

 

Read first post

[li_gangyi]

For some odd reason I can't post pictures or link to anywhere offsite. Bloody disturbing.

 

Anyways back on topic, I have seen R6 engines with cast in sleeves installed from the factory. As long as the sleeve material will expand and contract at the same rate as the base material, I don't see why they cannot be used.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v388/scooter6/Cylinder2.jpg

[li_gangyi]

For some weird reason I can't post links or pictures, maybe I'm still not up to the min poast count yet.

 

Anyways back on topic, I have seen R6 engines with cast in sleeves installed from the factory. I don't see a reason why they can't be used as long as the sleeve expands and contracts at the same rate as the base material.

[Marcheline]

I don't know about R6es, but most engines nowadays are using Nikasil instead of sleeves. Better heat transfer, attracts oil and very tough for a few mm thickness. Drawback is it's very brittle.

[samuelftw5]

Hi bro, may i know if valve clearance need any technical skill to do or just replacement of parts? Thanks (:

[mild_slevin]

Read first post

 

No lei, TS mentioned its a engine which he bought from fellow forumer.

 

TS current R1 engine had a cracked block, releasing fumes from the crankcase which cannot be routed to the airbox. It's burning engine oil at a rough rate of 100ml per 2000km.

 

Lastly TS agenda for the "newly" purchased engine.

 

1. Piston Rings

2. Rod Bearings

3. Inspect Gear teeth (particularly the 2nd gear)

4. Install new Clutch Basket and assorted plates

5. Replace Timing Chain

6. Valve Clearance

 

That's why I asked if TS knew what's wrong with the purchased engine or its just another aging engine for sale.

[mild_slevin]

Hi bro, may i know if valve clearance need any technical skill to do or just replacement of parts? Thanks (:

 

Hmmm as I see from service manual, not necessary that you need replacement its just another maintenance check. You would need a feeler gauge and micrometer, I find that for noob like me would be a problem without proper tools and likely hood things would mess up. Again if you have such intention of involving with such work just do ur homework well and have a service manual as guide should minimize such encounter?

At the end, we wanna see "IT WORKS!!!"

[Marcheline]

No lei, TS mentioned its a engine which he bought from fellow forumer.

 

TS current R1 engine had a cracked block, releasing fumes from the crankcase which cannot be routed to the airbox. It's burning engine oil at a rough rate of 100ml per 2000km.

 

Lastly TS agenda for the "newly" purchased engine.

 

1. Piston Rings

2. Rod Bearings

3. Inspect Gear teeth (particularly the 2nd gear)

4. Install new Clutch Basket and assorted plates

5. Replace Timing Chain

6. Valve Clearance

 

That's why I asked if TS knew what's wrong with the purchased engine or its just another aging engine for sale.

 

When I bought it, I didn't know what was wrong. Ex-owner said it's a low-mileage plug and play engine from a crashed bike overseas. I still tore it down anyway out of curiosity and to learn. The knowledge you gain is really priceless.

 

Looking at the parts during the tear-down, I would say its a relatively low mileage engine. Problem is, it has a hairline crack in the nikasil layer, which I only found when I was about to reassemble everything. The crack was covered by a layer of oil. I believe the crack was caused by the crash.

 

Now, my only option is to send the top block to USA for replating. Shipping is not cheap for 10++kg. The electroplating itself will cost about US600 for a 4 cyl engine. Have not saved enough yet.. Still studying.

[mild_slevin]

When I bought it, I didn't know what was wrong. Ex-owner said it's a low-mileage plug and play engine from a crashed bike overseas. I still tore it down anyway out of curiosity and to learn. The knowledge you gain is really priceless.

 

Looking at the parts during the tear-down, I would say its a relatively low mileage engine. Problem is, it has a hairline crack in the nikasil layer, which I only found when I was about to reassemble everything. The crack was covered by a layer of oil. I believe the crack was caused by the crash.

 

Now, my only option is to send the top block to USA for replating. Shipping is not cheap for 10++kg. The electroplating itself will cost about US600 for a 4 cyl engine. Have not saved enough yet.. Still studying.

 

after I read through all ur efforts and money spend its alot... especially some tools are not common.

So do u have that intention of swapping it with ur current ride? Cause I'm curious if we able to test the engine without installing it on the bike.

[li_gangyi]

Sleeves can still be plated with nikasil, before or after the sleeve is installed.

 

mild_slevin: I have no idea about the specifics of the R1 engine (I mostly work on car engines), but if you can hook up a suitable fuel supply, have a stable enough stand, hook up the electronics and the starter, you'd be able to start the engine off the bike, and possibly do the initial camshaft break-in.

[SNapEl]

And make a hell lot of noise that is going to wake the whole estate.

[li_gangyi]

Definetly against running an engine without it's exhaust system, it'll be stupid loud... LOL

[mild_slevin]

Sleeves can still be plated with nikasil, before or after the sleeve is installed.

 

mild_slevin: I have no idea about the specifics of the R1 engine (I mostly work on car engines), but if you can hook up a suitable fuel supply, have a stable enough stand, hook up the electronics and the starter, you'd be able to start the engine off the bike, and possibly do the initial camshaft break-in.

 

Are engine powered by ECM a real headache than those running under carb?

My curiosity how actually professional break down the fault of an engine? Beside too many modules are link with one another..

YZF-R1 and Fazer 1000 are using the same engine, the so call tune up/down means? How actually we can achieve that?

[li_gangyi]

More than likely the FZ1's engine has a different camshaft / head design.

 

ECM comes in handy for it's almost unlimited tune-ability (at least from the manufacturers standpoint), great for meeting emissions while creating insane power and a smooth torque curve. Carbs will very likely get you your max power, but to meet emissions, might need a whole shitload of accessories (usually vacuum related) and multi jets to get there, negating the original cost benefit it had over electronic control.

 

Not too sure what you mean by breaking down the fault of the engine, but if there was an issue with the engine itself, it pays to look at the whole picture, instead of just solving the symptom, you need to fix the original causing factor (that say made the piston burn through for an extreme example).

[mild_slevin]

More than likely the FZ1's engine has a different camshaft / head design.

 

ECM comes in handy for it's almost unlimited tune-ability (at least from the manufacturers standpoint), great for meeting emissions while creating insane power and a smooth torque curve. Carbs will very likely get you your max power, but to meet emissions, might need a whole shitload of accessories (usually vacuum related) and multi jets to get there, negating the original cost benefit it had over electronic control.

 

Not too sure what you mean by breaking down the fault of the engine, but if there was an issue with the engine itself, it pays to look at the whole picture, instead of just solving the symptom, you need to fix the original causing factor (that say made the piston burn through for an extreme example).

 

different camshaft... does it mean the period that intake and exhaust valve are very very different from hyper sport and street?

From professional point of view what can a engine goes wrong it its crash during a race etc?

I'm wondering does injectors has to work side by side with ECM OR actually it can goes without it?

[li_gangyi]

Camshaft and head design (ultimately how much flow you will get at a specific RPM), defines how much power you will make. I'm guessing that's what is different between the R1 and the FZ1.

 

What can go wrong with the engine during the crash, you meant the engine was the cause of the crash? Or what can fail in the engine during the crash? Way too vague a question, impossible for me to answer.

 

Injectors need the ECM to tell them when and how long to open. The actual fuel pressure comes from the fuel pump + regulator system.

[mild_slevin]

Camshaft and head design (ultimately how much flow you will get at a specific RPM), defines how much power you will make. I'm guessing that's what is different between the R1 and the FZ1.

 

What can go wrong with the engine during the crash, you meant the engine was the cause of the crash? Or what can fail in the engine during the crash? Way too vague a question, impossible for me to answer.

 

Injectors need the ECM to tell them when and how long to open. The actual fuel pressure comes from the fuel pump + regulator system.

 

mean to say if a bike met an accident, skid and crash would the engine survive? Cause I'm pondering if an engine able to withstand such a horrendous impact and shock.

If we flip a regular in line 4 engine upside and crank it, would it still operate as per normal?

[li_gangyi]

Wouldn't know, the impact might have cracked something inside. Usually you won't be able to operate an engine upside down for long due to lubrication issues, the oil pump will not be able to pickup anything.

[Marcheline]

mean to say if a bike met an accident, skid and crash would the engine survive? Cause I'm pondering if an engine able to withstand such a horrendous impact and shock.

If we flip a regular in line 4 engine upside and crank it, would it still operate as per normal?

 

Most of the time, the engine would survive, unless the impact rips it out of the chassis, or something inside cracks. You'd need a gas-turbine engine to operate an engine upside down. Our oil sumps are gravity based and the oil pump picks it up from the bottom. If you invert the engine, the oil will collect in the cylinder head. Yeah, your cams would have plenty of lubrication, but not your piston, cylinder and gearbox. Ouch.

[li_gangyi]

Don't have to run a gas turbine to go upside down, I suppose a well engineered dry sump system would suffice.

[Bluetooth]

Hi TS

 

I need to know do you know of any machine shop that can disassemble the crank and re-install with new con rod and bearings?

 

Can they also balance the crank after assembling it back?

[JbAtRaCeR]

Hi TS

 

I need to know do you know of any machine shop that can disassemble the crank and re-install with new con rod and bearings?

 

Can they also balance the crank after assembling it back?

 

Disassemble crank and replacing con-rod i think most bikeshop can do it. Btw for which bike bro?...As for crank balancing i'm not sure if its locally available..

[Bluetooth]

Disassemble crank and replacing con-rod i think most bikeshop can do it. Btw for which bike bro?...As for crank balancing i'm not sure if its locally available..

 

I was referring to small bike with a single crank.

 

The crank need to be split to remove the con-rod.

 

Most bike shops can't do it for small bikes so I guess they have to send to machine shop.

 

There are some shops I know but their quality of work, not up to standard.

 

Do you know of any shops that can disassembale and assemble the crank with rod properly and charge a reasonable fee?

[JbAtRaCeR]

I was referring to small bike with a single crank.

 

The crank need to be split to remove the con-rod.

 

Most bike shops can't do it for small bikes so I guess they have to send to machine shop.

 

There are some shops I know but their quality of work, not up to standard.

 

Do you know of any shops that can disassembale and assemble the crank with rod properly and charge a reasonable fee?

 

Ohh...like vespa crankshaft...Think tong aik can do it. Not sure how much maybe can call them up?...

[samuelftw5]

Hi bro. the Clutch Remover Tools you bought is Universal ? If it is, dont mind if you on rent me ? (:

 

Anw, Any bro can confirm me Honda Parts distributor is at Rowell Road?

Edited November 3, 2010 by samuelftw5