BMW Motorcycles

[atco22]

Any R1200RT owners here have experienced Hall Effect Sensor failure? If so, at what mileage?

[biker20]

Hi MJ, thanks for sharing. Excellent job, next time I need advice on bike, can look for you?

 

I forgot to include a picture of the brace that I designed...

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]226679[/ATTACH]

 

It is made of stainless steel to resist corrosion but is overkill for the application. Stainless steel is also hard to machine and is a rather heavy material.

 

A better solution that I have devised is to machine the same part from aluminum rod stock, round bar approximately 15mm in diameter. The bar can then be parted to the correct length on a lathe. Mill spanner flats for a 13mm spanner midway along bar, radius slot with a ball-nose end mill to reduce the chance of the bar cracking along the spanner flat. The spanner flats are required for you to have something to hold the bar in position whilst tightening or (more importantly!) loosening the fasteners.

 

Either end of bar: Drill hole, depth approx. 10mm. Tap for M10 X 1.25 Helicoil insert (this is necessary as aluminum is weak and threads machined in aluminum parts usually give way after a while). Install Helicoil.

 

Anodise (preferred) or powdercoat to match the centrestand colour.

 

Fasten with countersunk Allen screws, stainless steel.

 

I cannot remember the exact dimensions of the part, but anyone can figure out how it is done; not too difficult.

[biker20]

Hi Atco, it's a little difficult to share on this because it's very subjective. Sharing my own experience, my first hall sensor failed me at about 50 K and the sensor one never fail me even after 100 K but I decided to change due to going for a long trip to Lao. Hope this help.

[MJ Gurunathan]

@atco22: Thank you for your kind comments, it was a labour of love. I must admit that some of the work I did isn't perfect, but I made do with what I had and I'm happy with that. If there's one thing I've learned from all of this, it's that Bimmers aren't that hard to work on. In fact, they're a helluva lot easier to maintain than Japanese bikes!

 

I kept rough records of the cost; the project cost me a total of $3500 spread over two years, materials and labour inclusive. The sad thing is that most people start charging you an arm and a leg for parts just because they know you ride a BMW. I'm not a well-to-do individual, I'm a blue-collar worker in a factory but that doesn't mean I can't ride a bike that I love.

[MJ Gurunathan]

@biker20: I would be happy to help you, if I can. I've realised that most problems are easily solved with a bit of head scratching and a little spannering!

[atco22]

@biker20: Thanks for your reply. I understand it differs from part to part. The reason I asked is that I do know the Hall Effect Sensors tend to fail, not because of the sensors but because of the wires that comes out of it. I ride a 11RT and it intermittently failed once. I am contemplating changing to a 12RT and wondered if BMW has changed to better wires.

 

@MJ Gurunathan: My comments are sincere. To put in this amount of time, energy and perseverence into what I call a BIG DIY project is something that deserves respect from anyone with a little DIY experience. The hard work(the 'hard' part, especially) is something that not everyone can endure, for even 2 weeks, not to mention 2 years. Even over in other countries where such DIY is common, your work will be admired.

 

I am particularly interested in the part which you describe the Hall Effect Sensors. I really thought of dismantling it, and give it some heat-shrink tubing from Sim Lim Tower. As I did not come from a technical background, but would really love to explore, I was only afraid that I will not know how to undo my actions, worse, not knowing how to put back what I removed.

 

Is there really such a thing called "Heat resistant heat-shrink tubing"? I was thinking of this solution, but was baffled by the somewhat contradicting item I am looking. Do you think you can help me with this? Is it possible foe this to be a half-day project? Would really love to learn from you.

Edited November 27, 2011 by atco22

[atco22]

Someone ever told me, implictly referring to the failing Hall Effect Sensors, "Oh, so you ride an RT, the bike that will fail once it is ridden through water or heavy rain, or after a hose-down wash."

[tall girl]

2 years is a rather long time to rebuilt 1 bike.

Are you the one rebuilt bmw bike and then sell to UK?

 

@atco22: Thank you for your kind comments, it was a labour of love. I must admit that some of the work I did isn't perfect, but I made do with what I had and I'm happy with that. If there's one thing I've learned from all of this, it's that Bimmers aren't that hard to work on. In fact, they're a helluva lot easier to maintain than Japanese bikes!

 

I kept rough records of the cost; the project cost me a total of $3500 spread over two years, materials and labour inclusive. The sad thing is that most people start charging you an arm and a leg for parts just because they know you ride a BMW. I'm not a well-to-do individual, I'm a blue-collar worker in a factory but that doesn't mean I can't ride a bike that I love.

[biker20]

Hi Atco, if I'm not wrong the new R1200 GS/RT do not use Hall Sensor anymore, it has been replace with some other technology. Do check with PML to confirm that part.

 

@biker20: Thanks for your reply. I understand it differs from part to part. The reason I asked is that I do know the Hall Effect Sensors tend to fail, not because of the sensors but because of the wires that comes out of it. I ride a 11RT and it intermittently failed once. I am contemplating changing to a 12RT and wondered if BMW has changed to better wires.

 

@MJ Gurunathan: My comments are sincere. To put in this amount of time, energy and perseverence into what I call a BIG DIY project is something that deserves respect from anyone with a little DIY experience. The hard work(the 'hard' part, especially) is something that not everyone can endure, for even 2 weeks, not to mention 2 years. Even over in other countries where such DIY is common, your work will be admired.

 

I am particularly interested in the part which you describe the Hall Effect Sensors. I really thought of dismantling it, and give it some heat-shrink tubing from Sim Lim Tower. As I did not come from a technical background, but would really love to explore, I was only afraid that I will not know how to undo my actions, worse, not knowing how to put back what I removed.

 

Is there really such a thing called "Heat resistant heat-shrink tubing"? I was thinking of this solution, but was baffled by the somewhat contradicting item I am looking. Do you think you can help me with this? Is it possible foe this to be a half-day project? Would really love to learn from you.

[coolcat]

Great job, MJ. Much determination.

 

I can understand how you feel, especially the frustrations when you thought you had solved one problem but another surfaced, but no doubt the end point is worth it.

 

I am particularly interested in the part which you describe the Hall Effect Sensors. I really thought of dismantling it, and give it some heat-shrink tubing from Sim Lim Tower. As I did not come from a technical background, but would really love to explore, I was only afraid that I will not know how to undo my actions, worse, not knowing how to put back what I removed.

 

Is there really such a thing called "Heat resistant heat-shrink tubing"? I was thinking of this solution, but was baffled by the somewhat contradicting item I am looking. Do you think you can help me with this? Is it possible foe this to be a half-day project? Would really love to learn from you.

 

Take pictures at stages if you are afraid of re-assembly. I have plenty of pics that seemed pointless but it helps when putting Humpty-Dumpty together. Heat-shrinking tubing is available at Sim Lim Tower basement. Comes in different diameters.

 

2 years is a rather long time to rebuilt 1 bike.

 

IMHO, length of time depends on many factors, waiting for parts, getting quotes, re-conditioning the used, buying the new or simply figuring what to do? The journey is part of the enjoyment too, for me at least. Two years while working on it on a part time basis seems to me reasonable.

 

Cheers

 

Cat

[moto_fly]

What's the take on water jetting the bike after off-roading? I mean really stuck on 10mm thick mud cakes all over the engine, undercarriage, forks, rims n brakes? Cleaning it by hand would take maybe, 1 month? Haha...some thoughts please

[atco22]

Hi Atco, if I'm not wrong the new R1200 GS/RT do not use Hall Sensor anymore, it has been replace with some other technology. Do check with PML to confirm that part.

 

Oh yah? Hmm....must check that out.

[atco22]

I am faced with a dilemma of a few options for changing my current ride. I currently ride a 11 year-old R1100RT, still functioning well, but BMW bikes are addictive, and I am looking to upgrade to a R1200RT, as I prefer the RT series.

 

Now, I have the following few options :

 

July 2007, almost 100k km, $26k

March 2006, 25k km, $31k

Brand new 2012 model, $47k

Keep current bike(fully paid), wait till new model comes out, then buy.

 

My consideration is that probably between 2013-2015, there might be a newer successor to the current 12RT model, if I get a brand new one now, I may be in another dilemma whether to change or to keep.

 

In all three cases, I might be paying about the same in monthly instalments(cannot afford to pay full), only differing in length of loan. Just wanna hear the different opinions.

[atco22]

 

Take pictures at stages if you are afraid of re-assembly. I have plenty of pics that seemed pointless but it helps when putting Humpty-Dumpty together. Heat-shrinking tubing is available at Sim Lim Tower basement. Comes in different diameters.

 

Cat

 

I have seen those heat-shrink tubing before, but *heat resistant* heat-shrink tubing sounds a little controversial to me. The absence of technical background begs for enlightenment.

[maxxmadness]

@atco22 - in your shoes i would keep the present bike and wait for a new model to be launch,..should be anytime soon.

[coolcat]

I do not think that the heat-shrink tubing are "heat resistant" in the sense of fire retardation. They are a neat and tidy way to bind wires, especially after a solder repair. For heat resistance, there are specialised tapes.

 

For the perfectionist who must insist on BMW - part No. 61136902588 for the tape used to wrap the harness.

 

Re atco22 - the next generation of boxers look to be water-cooled from the grapevine, how do you feel about that? Personally I am not using all of the BHP to need the water-cooling and hence do not mind the lower powered air/oil cool engines.

 

Cheers

 

Cat

[atco22]

@atco22 - in your shoes i would keep the present bike and wait for a new model to be launch,..should be anytime soon.

 

At least not in 2012, they only have a facelift of current 12RT in 2012.

[MJ Gurunathan]

@atco22: I shall try to answer your questions as best as I can.

 

Hall Sensor Repair: I'm not the first to do it, there are quite a few people out there who've done the repair before. The only different thing I did was to redo the wiring. I have two Hall sensors with me; one had the insulation completely degraded, that was the one that had all the wires replaced. The second unit had defective insulation, that one was repaired with heat-shrink tubing.

 

I used to do wire harness repair as part of my job, that's where I first made the acquaintance of Mr. Heat Shrink. There are many different types of heat-shrink tubing, but for high operating temperatures Teflon tubing is best. The standard PFE tubing that you get in Sim Lim is good up to about 150 deg. C; don't quote me on this, though; the temperature rating is stamped on the tubing anyway, as is the nominal diameter that the tubing is designed to shrink to. Anyway, don't confuse heat-shrink with heat-resistance; they're not mutually exclusive. Heat shrink tubing is actually pre-expanded to a larger diameter; heating it simply makes it shrink. If you subject it to very high temperatures, say the heat from a cigarette lighter flame, you'll notice that the tubing will begin to char so it is definitely not fireproof! To make a long story short, yes you can use heat-shrink tubing, yes it is heat-resistant to a certain degree.

 

The tape used to bundle BMW wiring harnesses is called self-consolidating insulation tape. It's a special type of non-sticky tape that bonds to itself when stretched tight. The problem with this tape is that it is not easy to wrap a small-gauge (say 20AWG) wire properly, the only way to correctly do a repair is to use heat-shrink tubing.

 

If you would like to purchase the self-consolidating wire harness tape, you may obtain it from Chop Hock Hong: http://www.chophockhong.com.sg. Ask for Scotch 23B tape.

 

As for it being a half-day project, yeah I guess it could be done in half a day. I took a long time to do it (2 days) because I only worked on the repair when I ended my shift at the factory. You'll need to make some tools to strip the Molex connector from the wire, if you have trouble with that, you can use a small screwdriver and pry the thing apart.

[MJ Gurunathan]

Oh yes and whilst we're on the topic of Hall Sensors, the new GS models don't use the old Hall sensor thingy anymore. They've got a camshaft position sensor that reports to the BMS-K engine management system the position of the camshaft and hence, the position of the crankshaft. This tells the computer when to send a spark to the plugs. They're quite reliable, when I was doing research for the Hall sensor repair on the R1100 everyone I spoke to on ADV said they've had nil problems with the ignition trigger on the new 1200s.

[atco22]

I do not think that the heat-shrink tubing are "heat resistant" in the sense of fire retardation. They are a neat and tidy way to bind wires, especially after a solder repair. For heat resistance, there are specialised tapes.

 

For the perfectionist who must insist on BMW - part No. 61136902588 for the tape used to wrap the harness.

 

Re atco22 - the next generation of boxers look to be water-cooled from the grapevine, how do you feel about that? Personally I am not using all of the BHP to need the water-cooling and hence do not mind the lower powered air/oil cool engines.

 

Cheers

 

Cat

 

Ahh....now you've cleared my mind on the heat-shrink tubing....so it should be: wrap wires with heat resistant tape, then organise with heat shrink tubing to ensure better life for wires from Hall Effect Sensor....

 

My simplistic view of air/oil cooled vs water cooled is this:

Air/oil cooled simpler, but engine heat gets to rider when bike at slow speed or stationary.

Water cooled with radiator and fan makes the bike noisier and additional part to subject to failure....

 

So long as the engine is cooled, whichever way is fine with me. The more "efficient" or "effective" way of cooling is a arguable subject, so I shall not dwell into that.

[MJ Gurunathan]

@tall girl: This is the first time I'm rebuilding a BMW. But I am sure that there are more professional guys out there who may be reconditioning motorcycles and exporting them. Sounds like good business to me!

[atco22]

@atco22: I shall try to answer your questions as best as I can.

 

Hall Sensor Repair: I'm not the first to do it, there are quite a few people out there who've done the repair before. The only different thing I did was to redo the wiring. I have two Hall sensors with me; one had the insulation completely degraded, that was the one that had all the wires replaced. The second unit had defective insulation, that one was repaired with heat-shrink tubing.

 

I used to do wire harness repair as part of my job, that's where I first made the acquaintance of Mr. Heat Shrink. There are many different types of heat-shrink tubing, but for high operating temperatures Teflon tubing is best. The standard PFE tubing that you get in Sim Lim is good up to about 150 deg. C; don't quote me on this, though; the temperature rating is stamped on the tubing anyway, as is the nominal diameter that the tubing is designed to shrink to. Anyway, don't confuse heat-shrink with heat-resistance; they're not mutually exclusive. Heat shrink tubing is actually pre-expanded to a larger diameter; heating it simply makes it shrink. If you subject it to very high temperatures, say the heat from a cigarette lighter flame, you'll notice that the tubing will begin to char so it is definitely not fireproof! To make a long story short, yes you can use heat-shrink tubing, yes it is heat-resistant to a certain degree.

 

The tape used to bundle BMW wiring harnesses is called self-consolidating insulation tape. It's a special type of non-sticky tape that bonds to itself when stretched tight. The problem with this tape is that it is not easy to wrap a small-gauge (say 20AWG) wire properly, the only way to correctly do a repair is to use heat-shrink tubing.

 

If you would like to purchase the self-consolidating wire harness tape, you may obtain it from Chop Hock Hong: http://www.chophockhong.com.sg. Ask for Scotch 23B tape.

 

As for it being a half-day project, yeah I guess it could be done in half a day. I took a long time to do it (2 days) because I only worked on the repair when I ended my shift at the factory. You'll need to make some tools to strip the Molex connector from the wire, if you have trouble with that, you can use a small screwdriver and pry the thing apart.

 

@MJ Gurunathan: Thank you for the information!! I shall go look for Teflon heat-shrink tubing...

[atco22]

Oh yes and whilst we're on the topic of Hall Sensors, the new GS models don't use the old Hall sensor thingy anymore. They've got a camshaft position sensor that reports to the BMS-K engine management system the position of the camshaft and hence, the position of the crankshaft. This tells the computer when to send a spark to the plugs. They're quite reliable, when I was doing research for the Hall sensor repair on the R1100 everyone I spoke to on ADV said they've had nil problems with the ignition trigger on the new 1200s.

 

Hmm? So I guess the 1200RT should be more reliable than my 1100RT in that department.....

[MJ Gurunathan]

@moto_fly: Haha washing with the pressure wand reminds me of the first time I took my GS offroad... I tried riding the damn thing around some really muddy stuff and by the time I was done both the bike and myself were covered in mud. So I ride in to this petrol station and ask the car wash guy there (who is this Ah Beng guy I know from my LC Kia days) to wash the bike. He starts spraying water everywhere, under the tank, the seat, the fenders, all over the place. Bloody bike was totally drenched but was *really* squeaky clean...

 

Anyway after carefully drying off the GS I tried to start the bike and much as I expected, the bike wouldn't start. Water had gotten into the Hall sensor harness and was shorting the damn thing out. So out comes the BMW toolkit and I start to pull the Hall sensor off to try and get it dried, so I can ride the bike home. The Beng comes up to me and this is what happens:

 

Ah Beng: "Eh bro why bike cannot start ah?"

Me: "Yah water go inside the wayar short oredi."

Ah Beng: "Wah KNN like that how?"

Me: "OK lah BMW got put toolkit inside the bike, can take out the sensor and dry-dry a bit. After that can start oredi."

Ah Beng: "OK power, so all BMW got toolkit ah?"

Me: "Yah this one is standard one."

Ah Beng: "I think I know why BMW must got toolkit one, cos everytime bike spoil, can easy to fix mah!"

Me: *PENGZ*

 

But yeah go ahead and pressure wash your baby, just tell the washer-dudes not to spray the sensitive bits. When I was riding scramblers I used to spray the bike with silicone lube, the plastics, forks, swingarm, any bits that could get dirty... and it made the washing so much easier after a ride. The dirt would just come off.

[atco22]

 

Anyway after carefully drying off the GS I tried to start the bike and much as I expected, the bike wouldn't start. Water had gotten into the Hall sensor harness and was shorting the damn thing out. So out comes the BMW toolkit and I start to pull the Hall sensor off to try and get it dried, so I can ride the bike home.

 

You mean to say it is so easy to remove the Hall Sensor, and you were able yo do it right there on the spot?