BMW C 600 Sport and C 650

[easterner]

See electronics in newer bikes are there for a reason. If they add complexity with no benefits why would any manufacturer put them in right? Things like ride - by - wire, ride mode selection, dynamic adjustable suspension, diagnostics interfacing etc are exotic now but they will become standard in a few years, just like ABS. If you understand electronics and have the right equipment newer bikes should be easier to work on, since the bike computer will tell the mechanic what's wrong. It's the older generation of mechanics who don't keep up with the times, or don't give a damn about upgrading themselves that complain most.

 

We riders want better products all the time. But better products cannot happen just by sticking to previous technology. Or everyone will be riding classics! Those who want the most basic experience can still to older or classic bikes.

 

In the end BMW bikes are just expensive to repair because their spare parts are expensive. But maintenance costs to me is on the high side but quite acceptable considering the overall product experience.

 

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[paithorn]

BMW parts not ex.... It's the labour in PML

[easterner]

PML labour cost is high but BMW parts are also expensive. I have plenty of their parts invoices over 12 years to form that opinion. This is comparing with equivalent Japanese bikes of course.

 

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[anodise57]

See electronics in newer bikes are there for a reason. If they add complexity with no benefits why would any manufacturer put them in right? Things like ride - by - wire, ride mode selection, dynamic adjustable suspension, diagnostics interfacing etc are exotic now but they will become standard in a few years, just like ABS. If you understand electronics and have the right equipment newer bikes should be easier to work on, since the bike computer will tell the mechanic what's wrong. It's the older generation of mechanics who don't keep up with the times, or don't give a damn about upgrading themselves that complain most.

 

We riders want better products all the time. But better products cannot happen just by sticking to previous technology. Or everyone will be riding classics! Those who want the most basic experience can still to older or classic bikes.

 

In the end BMW bikes are just expensive to repair because their spare parts are expensive. But maintenance costs to me is on the high side but quite acceptable considering the overall product experience.

 

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Totally agree with ur thoughts.

Coming from automotive background and German firm....

All good intention but electronics are not built to last...

In order to make sure consumables are CONSUMED.... their lifespan are good for 13~20mths on average.

So ... ya.... U sure will go visit them whether you like it or not besides all the mechanical wear and tear and Oil changes ^_^..

It is how the world runs now...

 

PML labour cost is high but BMW parts are also expensive. I have plenty of their parts invoices over 12 years to form that opinion. This is comparing with equivalent Japanese bikes of course.

 

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With ur receipts... its proven that the experience comes with a price ^_^

That not general public can really afford

[easterner]

For the price to get one of these BMW scoots, I think it's a steal to be honest. Look at the serious competitors like Tmax or Burgman Executive. Each has their fans but the C is up there amongst the highest praised products in the maxi scoot segment. Tmax 530 ABS model is about the same money as the GT. Burg Executive is probably more expensive than GT in SG going by USA prices.

And Silverwing is so long in the tooth that unless Honda pushes out an all new model, it's just a faded offering based on a design at least 12 years old.

 

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[easterner]

If the C comes with an engine temperature display AND powered folding mirrors, it'll be 10/10 no doubt. Now it's a solid 9/10.

 

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[papabread79]

U forgot the SRV 850, easterner.

[easterner]

U forgot the SRV 850, easterner.

 

SRV Aprilla not considered a contender in SG market. Aprilla is not a mainstream brand in SG to begin with. Storage is tiny due to the V twin engine... even smaller than Tmax. That's why all successful maxi scoots use parallel twin. Price is another nail in the coffin for the SRV.

 

Yes it is the fastest - in a drag strip. But it has no speed advantage in a track race with hairpin turns, hard brakings etc.

 

Supposedly Mah decided to cut the SRV price to say something like say Majesty 400, already considered a very low volume model, at about $17k. I bet the Majestic still can outsell SRV by 100:1.

 

Don't even think about spare parts support. All things considered SRV don't have a chance to be competitive in SG. Even Silverwing 650 (only parallel import in SG by the way), with it's decade-old design is still more appealing just because it's a Honda. Personally I think even Kymco MyRoad 700 is a better buy than SRV. Other than bragging rights as the fastest in a straight line, there's nothing outstanding about the SRV.

 

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[anodise57]

SRV Aprilla not considered a contender in SG market. Aprilla is not a mainstream brand in SG to begin with. Storage is tiny due to the V twin engine... even smaller than Tmax. That's why all successful maxi scoots use parallel twin. Price is another nail in the coffin for the SRV.

 

Yes it is the fastest - in a drag strip. But it has no speed advantage in a track race with hairpin turns, hard brakings etc.

 

Supposedly Mah decided to cut the SRV price to say something like say Majesty 400, already considered a very low volume model, at about $17k. I bet the Majestic still can outsell SRV by 100:1.

 

Don't even think about spare parts support. All things considered SRV don't have a chance to be competitive in SG. Even Silverwing 650 (only parallel import in SG by the way), with it's decade-old design is still more appealing just because it's a Honda. Personally I think even Kymco MyRoad 700 is a better buy than SRV. Other than bragging rights as the fastest in a straight line, there's nothing outstanding about the SRV.

 

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http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTzof7toCRWI9P6j4PKrEQTWHLtEHY_yt7VzYv1MDy5y-IWUgQ9

 

Good analysis bro...

[papabread79]

Could have been some minutes you spent writing that analysis.

 

But i am still unsure why i grin from ear to ear every time i swing my leg across my SRV's seat. Maybe because the owner knows best.

[Nick_Lee]

I think you must be delusional if you think that myroad 700 I is better than srv... but to each it's own... I think pcx150 is the best scooter.... Cos the other maxi scooters can say they say the best in everything else... but I think fuel consumption is the most impt aspect of riding...

 

my argument is flawed, I know... so is the above claim...

[easterner]

I think you must be delusional if you think that myroad 700 I is better than srv... but to each it's own... I think pcx150 is the best scooter.... Cos the other maxi scooters can say they say the best in everything else... but I think fuel consumption is the most impt aspect of riding...

 

my argument is flawed, I know... so is the above claim...

 

I'm not delusional. SRV has it's pros - straight line speed for one, pretty sporty looks too. But as an overall package MyRoad is a better buy if I have choose that over SRV. Better buy not the same meaning as better. It's like saying Triumph Street Triple is a better buy over MV Agusta Brutale. Both are hooligan bikes with similar tech data. Dealer support, price, performance etc are all considerations even though one can say MV is "better". But how many of us are brave enough to put our hard earned money down for a MV in Singapore, even though the MV is drop dead gorgeous and not really that outrageously expensive compared to the Street Triple? That's my point.

 

Anyway the sales numbers for MyRoad and SRV speaks for themselves. Both are not volume sellers but MyRoad and Kymco in general outsells Aprilla many times over. SRV is a sales flop - that's a fact. That doesn't mean it's a lousy product.. just not a good buy. Anyway bikes are a pretty emotional product and decisions may not be based on logic.

 

Point is the C trumps the competition as an overall package of price, dealer support, quality, spec etc. I'm very satisfied with my GT.

 

 

 

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[Nick_Lee]

I'm not delusional. SRV has it's pros - straight line speed for one, pretty sporty looks too. But as an overall package MyRoad is a better buy if I have choose that over SRV. Better buy not the same meaning as better. It's like saying Triumph Street Triple is a better buy over MV Agusta Brutale. Both are hooligan bikes with similar tech data. Dealer support, price, performance etc are all considerations even though one can say MV is "better". But how many of us are brave enough to put our hard earned money down for a MV in Singapore, even though the MV is drop dead gorgeous and not really that outrageously expensive compared to the Street Triple? That's my point.

 

Anyway the sales numbers for MyRoad and SRV speaks for themselves. Both are not volume sellers but MyRoad and Kymco in general outsells Aprilla many times over. SRV is a sales flop - that's a fact. That doesn't mean it's a lousy product.. just not a good buy. Anyway bikes are a pretty emotional product and decisions may not be based on logic.

 

Point is the C trumps the competition as an overall package of price, dealer support, quality, spec etc. I'm very satisfied with my GT.

 

 

 

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Please feel free to correct me... but you are talking about the bike being value for money? If it is... isn't srv a better deal in term of value? It's not only the best bike in a straight line as you claim... There are many things which would make the bike better 'value' even compared to c600 or the GT... look at it 20 grand for a scooter that is the most powerful, not to mention traction control... and oh yes... The looks and even the fuel consumption is very gd for a 850 cc...

By the way, please do let me know where did you get the figures for the sale of bikes? I would be interested to find out where my cheap bike figures in today's market...

 

But I do agree that the bmw scoots are pretty gd... just that I do not agree with the argument that myroad is a better scoot compared to srv... maybe you shld ride a srv to know how it compares to the GT... before I forget... Brembo brakes... abs with traction control... do consider ppl.

[Scarab]

Personally, I'll be pretty terrified of getting an Italian scoot. Especially Aprilia. Doesn't seems to gel pretty well with our weather here. And I definitely don't trust the service and support of the local agent. Just my 2 cents.

[anodise57]

One man's meat, anther man's poison....

Pocket size is 1 of the BIGGEST deterrence for any MAN's possession.

[easterner]

Please feel free to correct me... but you are talking about the bike being value for money? If it is... isn't srv a better deal in term of value? It's not only the best bike in a straight line as you claim... There are many things which would make the bike better 'value' even compared to c600 or the GT... look at it 20 grand for a scooter that is the most powerful, not to mention traction control... and oh yes... The looks and even the fuel consumption is very gd for a 850 cc...

By the way, please do let me know where did you get the figures for the sale of bikes? I would be interested to find out where my cheap bike figures in today's market...

 

But I do agree that the bmw scoots are pretty gd... just that I do not agree with the argument that myroad is a better scoot compared to srv... maybe you shld ride a srv to know how it compares to the GT... before I forget... Brembo brakes... abs with traction control... do consider ppl.

 

Never rode a SRV before because it's so damn rare? How many in the forum has that honour? Haha.. but some facts do not need an actual ride to know. Tiny storage. Very fast in straights through brute power but nothing outstanding in track, which is closer to everyday riding (source: motorcycling.com). And its instruments is the same as my other ride - Fuoco 500. Same as MP3 400. (All Piaggio brands.) The overall quality fit and finish is just streets better on the C... Tmax also very well made, very quality feel. Aprilla Vespa Piaggio Gilera. . well let's just say they are made in Italy.

 

I don't mean value for money. I mean which is a better buy based on overall package. Quality, specs, dealer support, price. Any bike will always have their fan base. SRV is not a lousy bike and I've never said that. Just a sales flop, due to no small part of the brand: Aprilla. It's just a niche brand in our market and that alone will turn many riders off. Look at the Aprilla Tuono. Awesome machine. But why Ducati Hypermotard or KTM Duke 690 dominate this segment? Brembo brakes, TC, overall specs are only 1 part of the overall picture. And we don't need hard data (bikes sales number by model breakdown are almost impossible to get anyway) to know Hypermotard outsells Tuono 100:1 in SG.

 

Hey I'm all referring to SG market. SRVs probably roam the streets of Italy like Corollas in Japan. MyRoads is probably the king in maxi scoot sector in Taiwan.

 

Well some people want exclusivity, say like Bimota, like SRV, like Brutale, like DN-01, like HP2. Or there's just that something special one sees.. screw that dealer support.

Thiscis just a forum to share our views on bikes and disagreement is expected. If SRV is your choice of ride, no one has the right to disrespect that. Ride safe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Nick_Lee]

Never rode a SRV before because it's so damn rare? How many in the forum has that honour? Haha.. but some facts do not need an actual ride to know. Tiny storage. Very fast in straights through brute power but nothing outstanding in track, which is closer to everyday riding (source: motorcycling.com). And its instruments is the same as my other ride - Fuoco 500. Same as MP3 400. (All Piaggio brands.) The overall quality fit and finish is just streets better on the C... Tmax also very well made, very quality feel. Aprilla Vespa Piaggio Gilera. . well let's just say they are made in Italy.

 

I don't mean value for money. I mean which is a better buy based on overall package. Quality, specs, dealer support, price. Any bike will always have their fan base. SRV is not a lousy bike and I've never said that. Just a sales flop, due to no small part of the brand: Aprilla. It's just a niche brand in our market and that alone will turn many riders off. Look at the Aprilla Tuono. Awesome machine. But why Ducati Hypermotard or KTM Duke 690 dominate this segment? Brembo brakes, TC, overall specs are only 1 part of the overall picture. And we don't need hard data (bikes sales number by model breakdown are almost impossible to get anyway) to know Hypermotard outsells Tuono 100:1 in SG.

 

Hey I'm all referring to SG market. SRVs probably roam the streets of Italy like Corollas in Japan. MyRoads is probably the king in maxi scoot sector in Taiwan.

 

Well some people want exclusivity, say like Bimota, like SRV, like Brutale, like DN-01, like HP2. Or there's just that something special one sees.. screw that dealer support.

Thiscis just a forum to share our views on bikes and disagreement is expected. If SRV is your choice of ride, no one has the right to disrespect that. Ride safe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Without hard facts it's hard to justify the amount of bike sale that a particular brand is selling... you can't simply say, Honda is the best bike brand in the world due to the number of bike that you see on the road... its like saying that coke sells better than Pepsi, cos more coffee shop sells coke... I fully agree that our choice of ride is due to our own preference. The same applies to criticism of bikes... I do not agree to figures which are purely speculative... just don't add up to me... different opinions are expected on forums... so please don't feel offended...

[papabread79]

The only person who can rightfully comment on a certain model of bike is the owner himself. If not, the words are merely hear-says from friends, friends of friends or of course, the internet (articles, publications, forums etc).

 

I did not have any issue with Mah Pte Ltd (regarding my Triumph and Aprillia). But with PML.. plenty. Right from putting down the deposit for a yet-to-arrive GSA till my last servicing. I shudder at the thought of another BMW purchase.

 

There is no perfect maxi-scoot. But the Tmax, MyRoad, C600/650, Burgman, etc are all good bikes nonetheless. Each and every one of them has their strong and weak points. That being said, my SRV is not a perfect maxi-scoot either.

 

And as rightfully pointed out by "easterner", the SRV is rare.

 

The Aventador is rare too. So, it is not good? Just kidding!

 

Have a good weekend peeps!

[bikerson]

hi...good point...many mechanics are just too lazy or busy to upgrade

[Nick_Lee]

The only person who can rightfully comment on a certain model of bike is the owner himself. If not, the words are merely hear-says from friends, friends of friends or of course, the internet (articles, publications, forums etc).

 

I did not have any issue with Mah Pte Ltd (regarding my Triumph and Aprillia). But with PML.. plenty. Right from putting down the deposit for a yet-to-arrive GSA till my last servicing. I shudder at the thought of another BMW purchase.

 

There is no perfect maxi-scoot. But the Tmax, MyRoad, C600/650, Burgman, etc are all good bikes nonetheless. Each and every one of them has their strong and weak points. That being said, my SRV is not a perfect maxi-scoot either.

 

And as rightfully pointed out by "easterner", the SRV is rare.

 

The Aventador is rare too. So, it is not good? Just kidding!

 

Have a good weekend peeps!

 

Not gd cos cannot afford... you know what they say... Sour grapes...

[HelmetBOX1605198525]

Anyone know what is the warranty for pml? 2 years and what mileage?

 

 

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[HelmetBOX1605198525]

Anyone know what is the warranty for pml? 2 years and what mileage?

 

 

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[HelmetBOX1605198525]

 

25km per litre. Serious?

 

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[paithorn]

Without hard facts it's hard to justify the amount of bike sale that a particular brand is selling... you can't simply say, Honda is the best bike brand in the world due to the number of bike that you see on the road... its like saying that coke sells better than Pepsi, cos more coffee shop sells coke... I fully agree that our choice of ride is due to our own preference. The same applies to criticism of bikes... I do not agree to figures which are purely speculative... just don't add up to me... different opinions are expected on forums... so please don't feel offended...

 

good point!!

[paithorn]

PML labour cost is high but BMW parts are also expensive. I have plenty of their parts invoices over 12 years to form that opinion. This is comparing with equivalent Japanese bikes of course.

 

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Wow!!! Which BMW bikes did you own over the last 12 years?