City Harvest Church

[Guest *Garnet*]

Originally posted by speedkills@Jul 25 2005, 11:52 PM

yeah i am=) you goin for FOP? maybe can see you there

 

drop me a message

 

samuel 91060925

heh, and u are there for 7years?? i was there when i was in NIE.. for about a year plus..

 

ok, will give u a call

[redname]

Originally posted by speedkills@Jul 25 2005, 11:51 PM

MS, i'm sorry to hear of your experience. but what i don't understand is about the part wher you say the extreme wrong teachings..care to elaborate?

 

because if the doctrines arent sound, how is it that my pst is invited all around the world and sought after as a guest preacher in many parts of australia, USA and even to the world's largest church pastored by Dr. Cho Yonggi in Seoul. then maybe they are either compromising on their stand in the doctrine of the Word? first of all, my understanding is that many traditional christians are the kind of word to word christians. that means A means A..B means B. but you must understand one thing, that is, while the Message is sacred, the approach can be different. as the world advances, the people's thinking changes..you cant jus keep going to one person and say that because the bible says that if you don't believe in Jesus, you will die. if i was a person in need, i rather you meet my need. if i needed bread and you come and say God bless you and go your way, how can u expect to reach out to me? what i am trying to get at is...everything in life has to have a balance. that means, we do not just teach the people to pray, we teach them to practice what they preach.

 

one man's meat is another man's poison. while i can tell a person that if you don't believe in Jesus, you will not go to heaven because thats what the bible says! but i cant say that to another. it works for one but for another it would trigger perhaps a negative effect. so i say, the message remain sacred that is we dun say,"oh its ok..you dun believe in Jesus, you will still go to heaven" but rather we reach them with the love of Jesus and whether they choose to believe or not is really up to them. ok goin a little off...but perhaps you can share a little bit here so i can maybe get a clearer picture

 

talk so much haha

i've spoken with a few pple from chc & i do find smeting wrg but i believe the prob doesn't lie with the pastors actually but rather on the huge hierachy. due to having a large num of pple, teachings r pass down from the top, thru many levels then it will prob reach the members, by tht time, the teachings MAY have been distorted. one example is tht there was tis teenager, he tld me he was veri stressed cause his cell leader tld him tht if u dnt slain when u get prayed for, tht means u r not holy enough , wah lau, i immed tell him thts wrg & explain things to him, haha, poor thing, he was so stress bout it until i finally relieve him

[redname]

Originally posted by speedkills@Jul 25 2005, 11:52 PM

yeah i am=) you goin for FOP? maybe can see you there

 

drop me a message

 

samuel 91060925

how bout an outing to FOP? prob on the fri or sun one cause sat i got svc.

 

last yr saw a few bikers, wonder if u guys r one of them. saw a R1 with lazer pipe

[Guest *Garnet*]

Originally posted by redname@Jul 26 2005, 01:13 PM

how bout an outing to FOP? prob on the fri or sun one cause sat i got svc.

 

last yr saw a few bikers, wonder if u guys r one of them. saw a R1 with lazer pipe

u also in CHC? wow, so how many bikers here are actually from there?

[MS]

Originally posted by speedkills@Jul 25 2005, 11:51 PM

MS, i'm sorry to hear of your experience. but what i don't understand is about the part wher you say the extreme wrong teachings..care to elaborate?

 

because if the doctrines arent sound, how is it that my pst is invited all around the world and sought after as a guest preacher in many parts of australia, USA and even to the world's largest church pastored by Dr. Cho Yonggi in Seoul. then maybe they are either compromising on their stand in the doctrine of the Word? first of all, my understanding is that many traditional christians are the kind of word to word christians. that means A means A..B means B. but you must understand one thing, that is, while the Message is sacred, the approach can be different. as the world advances, the people's thinking changes..you cant jus keep going to one person and say that because the bible says that if you don't believe in Jesus, you will die. if i was a person in need, i rather you meet my need. if i needed bread and you come and say God bless you and go your way, how can u expect to reach out to me? what i am trying to get at is...everything in life has to have a balance. that means, we do not just teach the people to pray, we teach them to practice what they preach.

 

one man's meat is another man's poison. while i can tell a person that if you don't believe in Jesus, you will not go to heaven because thats what the bible says! but i cant say that to another. it works for one but for another it would trigger perhaps a negative effect. so i say, the message remain sacred that is we dun say,"oh its ok..you dun believe in Jesus, you will still go to heaven" but rather we reach them with the love of Jesus and whether they choose to believe or not is really up to them. ok goin a little off...but perhaps you can share a little bit here so i can maybe get a clearer picture

 

talk so much haha

I find it very hard to explain in the forum. And it may end up in quarrels too. It is the way offerings and tongues are being utilised. The way CHC are doing are wrong already. Why not you read through 1 COR 14. Take it like a fact and not twisted way of understanding which many charismatic church members are being taught. Then check out what is the basis of offerings and the difference between the Singapore Bible Colledge's view on Offerings. How the Offerings should be carried out. Offerings are also known as tideth (I think spelling wrong).

[redname]

Originally posted by *Garnet*@Jul 26 2005, 02:27 PM

u also in CHC? wow, so how many bikers here are actually from there?

nope, i'm from city missions fellowship. jus wanna have an outing with christian bikers. u keen?

[redname]

Originally posted by MS@Jul 26 2005, 06:46 PM

I find it very hard to explain in the forum. And it may end up in quarrels too. It is the way offerings and tongues are being utilised. The way CHC are doing are wrong already. Why not you read through 1 COR 14. Take it like a fact and not twisted way of understanding which many charismatic church members are being taught. Then check out what is the basis of offerings and the difference between the Singapore Bible Colledge's view on Offerings. How the Offerings should be carried out. Offerings are also known as tideth (I think spelling wrong).

let me help u, its spelled as tithe

[josean]

here's a joke i just read....

 

 

Kong: What job should I pick?

 

Kong's dad: Up to you my son.

 

Kong: How much I get for selling insurance?

 

Kong's dad: Around initial payment of 10%-50%, but you need to look for people to sell your insurance on your own and depends on what you are selling.

 

Kong: What about becoming a minister?

 

Kong's dad: You get very high salary of around 1 million a year, 2 million a year for being president. But you need to be voted, and chances are PAP dont like you to tell them what to do.

 

Kong: What about being a CEO for Charity Organization?

 

Kong's dad: Oh, you can get 12 mths bonus, fly first class and eat peanuts and have a gold tap in your personal toilet. But be prepared that there might be a mob waiting outside for you when you walk the streets.

 

Kong: What about being a pastor?

 

Kong's dad: You get 10% for each follower, but you dont need to recruit your followers, since GOD will be your recruitment officer. And you dont have to be worried about being voted out either. Lastly, you followers need to believe whatever you say until they die before they find out if there really is a god.

 

Kong: Wow, I will be a pastor then!

[josean]

also an intersting pic i found too ....

[psychocandy]

haha... the woman like high on drugs!!! i gues they must have been fed LSD so the can see god!!

[Phantom00]

Originally posted by MS@Jul 26 2005, 06:46 PM

I find it very hard to explain in the forum. And it may end up in quarrels too. It is the way offerings and tongues are being utilised. The way CHC are doing are wrong already. Why not you read through 1 COR 14. Take it like a fact and not twisted way of understanding which many charismatic church members are being taught. Then check out what is the basis of offerings and the difference between the Singapore Bible Colledge's view on Offerings. How the Offerings should be carried out. Offerings are also known as tideth (I think spelling wrong).

1 Corinthians 14 is the classic chapter that opponents of tongues commonly use. However, they conveniently leave out impt pts on what the Apostle Paul says in the chapter while selectively quote the verses out of context. This is one good example of limited understanding and erroneous thinking.

 

Further, I find your basis on the supposedly wrong teachings of City Harvest all the more unpersuasive, when you were urging for the checking of the "basis of offerings", when you can't even spell "tithe".

 

I suggest you empty of your erroneous theologies and start from the basics again.

 

Sunday school would be a good start.

[redname]

Originally posted by psychocandy@Jul 27 2005, 02:18 AM

haha... the woman like high on drugs!!! i gues they must have been fed LSD so the can see god!!

but she's quite cute

[redname]

Originally posted by josean@Jul 27 2005, 02:02 AM

here's a joke i just read....

 

 

Kong: What job should I pick?

 

Kong's dad: Up to you my son.

 

Kong: How much I get for selling insurance?

 

Kong's dad: Around initial payment of 10%-50%, but you need to look for people to sell your insurance on your own and depends on what you are selling.

 

Kong: What about becoming a minister?

 

Kong's dad: You get very high salary of around 1 million a year, 2 million a year for being president. But you need to be voted, and chances are PAP dont like you to tell them what to do.

 

Kong: What about being a CEO for Charity Organization?

 

Kong's dad: Oh, you can get 12 mths bonus, fly first class and eat peanuts and have a gold tap in your personal toilet. But be prepared that there might be a mob waiting outside for you when you walk the streets.

 

Kong: What about being a pastor?

 

Kong's dad: You get 10% for each follower, but you dont need to recruit your followers, since GOD will be your recruitment officer. And you dont have to be worried about being voted out either. Lastly, you followers need to believe whatever you say until they die before they find out if there really is a god.

 

Kong: Wow, I will be a pastor then!

actually the role of pastor not the same as u say leh but i dnt wanna say anyting, sekali start flame war again

[redname]

Originally posted by Phantom00@Jul 27 2005, 09:16 AM

1 Corinthians 14 is the classic chapter that opponents of tongues commonly use. However, they conveniently leave out impt pts on what the Apostle Paul says in the chapter while selectively quote the verses out of context. This is one good example of limited understanding and erroneous thinking.

 

Further, I find your basis on the supposedly wrong teachings of City Harvest all the more unpersuasive, when you were urging for the checking of the "basis of offerings", when you can't even spell "tithe".

 

I suggest you empty of your erroneous theologies and start from the basics again.

 

Sunday school would be a good start.

althou i didn't really bother to read the conversation of u & MS but i do tink its better tht u give others a way out during discussions like tht, give others some face lah, writing things like sunday skool isn't a gd start & won't help, only help is tht it'll help build up some fire.

 

i guess the both of u jus let it off, its no gd for the body of Christ to behave like tht. i do know lots of things spoken bout chc but do u see me raise it up? remember the 12 fruits of Spirits consist of love & peace

[Phantom00]

Agree, I close my case.

 

But I wish to remind you it is biblically correct to use public rebuke in certain circumstances. We can be deceived into the love and peace doctrine and lose focus on the discipline and correction aspect.

 

I have had communications with MS' and have found him to be recalcitrant in having serious doctrinal errors. As for you I hope you will also watch your language and presentation, such as the way you comment about the CHC girls in your earlier posts.

[speedkills]

Originally posted by redname@Jul 26 2005, 01:11 PM

i've spoken with a few pple from chc & i do find smeting wrg but i believe the prob doesn't lie with the pastors actually but rather on the huge hierachy. due to having a large num of pple, teachings r pass down from the top, thru many levels then it will prob reach the members, by tht time, the teachings MAY have been distorted. one example is tht there was tis teenager, he tld me he was veri stressed cause his cell leader tld him tht if u dnt slain when u get prayed for, tht means u r not holy enough , wah lau, i immed tell him thts wrg & explain things to him, haha, poor thing, he was so stress bout it until i finally relieve him

some of the leaders even are really young in terms of theology as well..but well, people learn..when i was growing up in the church, i have people telling me that if i do not lift my hands high and jump high, i am not spiritual enough... i mean what kind of logic is that? but then again, i have to understand that in such a big organization, ther are all types of pple. but i do not take reference from jus the leaders, or even jus the pastors, i also draw reference from the Word. but of course, i fully trust and believe what pastor teaches..he is really solid when it comes to the doctrine. he dun have to convince me, he preahes and i look at the bible and i feel that it is never extreme in any ways. just like the Grace of God is a beautiful thing. but if you take the grace of God to the extreme, like.... "oh if you receive Jesus into your life and He forgiven you of all your sins, if you sin again, dun have to repent because the Grace of God is abundant for you." this is wad i call extreme teachings which are not sound and not in accordance with the Word of God. and that is actually a churh in town preaching on the cheap grace of God. The grace of God is free...but it never came cheap!

 

just my 2 cents

[speedkills]

Originally posted by josean@Jul 27 2005, 02:02 AM

here's a joke i just read....

 

 

Kong: What job should I pick?

 

Kong's dad: Up to you my son.

 

Kong: How much I get for selling insurance?

 

Kong's dad: Around initial payment of 10%-50%, but you need to look for people to sell your insurance on your own and depends on what you are selling.

 

Kong: What about becoming a minister?

 

Kong's dad: You get very high salary of around 1 million a year, 2 million a year for being president. But you need to be voted, and chances are PAP dont like you to tell them what to do.

 

Kong: What about being a CEO for Charity Organization?

 

Kong's dad: Oh, you can get 12 mths bonus, fly first class and eat peanuts and have a gold tap in your personal toilet. But be prepared that there might be a mob waiting outside for you when you walk the streets.

 

Kong: What about being a pastor?

 

Kong's dad: You get 10% for each follower, but you dont need to recruit your followers, since GOD will be your recruitment officer. And you dont have to be worried about being voted out either. Lastly, you followers need to believe whatever you say until they die before they find out if there really is a god.

 

Kong: Wow, I will be a pastor then!

hey, thats really very bad. a statement like that is without grounds and you can be sued for that even if u meant it to be a joke. every single cent that the members gave are accounted for. pls refrain from such comments esp when it concerns money issues. if you rem about a year ago thers this person who accused my pastor of certain things and in the end went up to apologise on all the local papers. because his claims are without grounds. reading a "joke" like this simply disgust me. if you wanna tell a joke like dat, dun do it publicly, you might find it funny, but others dun. though i know nuts about law, but i know based on that you still can be sued. watch what you say.

[speedkills]

Originally posted by psychocandy@Jul 27 2005, 02:18 AM

haha... the woman like high on drugs!!! i gues they must have been fed LSD so the can see god!!

that too isnt funny. please grow up.

[speedkills]

i'm sorry but if you really have something to comment on, maybe certain dissatisfaction regarding the way my church is handling our finances..maybe you can write in to the church and i'm sure you can get someone who knows more than i do to answer your every doubts.

 

like i said, i am still a member and am no where near the pastoral board. many questions i wouldnt be able to answer you, but that doesnt mean that no one else can. with all my understanding, i will try to answer every doubts you guys have but bear with my little knowledge

 

cheers. we arent on this forum to make enemies but rather to make new friends. no hard feelings yea everyone?

[speedkills]

Originally posted by Phantom00@Jul 26 2005, 09:22 AM

I understand where you're coming from, but I take issue with your statement "people should come in and observe for themselves before making certain comments which are really not that beneficial." I had indeed gone to City Harvest for a substantial period of time and had observed the belief systems, practices and its operations. I know the history from where it did not have a fixed place for its services, its move to Paya Lebar, the lease problem and its reason cited for moving to Jurong West. I also know of its plush office and had visited it at Suntec Tower.

 

Are you the one now who makes comments / jumps onto conclusions without properly investigating and finding out the background?

 

Now back to my prev post, I think you did not grasp the point. We know members are growing, and based on its rate of growing and the way of evangelising it might be better and more prudent to build an interim bldg rather than an expensive bldg, and later vacate its main services from the bldg. Your explanation on rather let the bldg go to waste it has now arrange for the elderly and children etc to fill the bldg does not address the issue. Rather, it is similar to after making a mistake you find some ways to lessen the consequences of the mistake. Grasp the issue - the point is abt proper planning and considerations, not a damage control reaction.

well honestly, this is what i feel thats best for the church. of course we arent making a mistake and finding the best way to remedy it. but if your saying that we are building a building thats too extravagant. it is nothing compared to the temple which king solomon build for the Lord. you can say how can we compare with the past. but i personally feel.. if it is possible, we would want to build another 10-20 $48000000 church because i serve a God who deserve my best. just like King David says, "i will not sacrifice a burnt offering which cost me nothing." over the years, we have seen so much of the faithfulness of God even while many times we were not. i personally felt that God had been sooooo faithful to my life while i remain unfaithful at times. so what is this sacrifice compared to the great God that i serve? and i am sure...if given another chance to build another building, we will make it even grander for the Lord to recite in! i would never settle for a vacant old theatre again.

 

with that said, we are defitnitely serving the Lord and not men. we are always speaking about moving out of our comfort zone and that is even if we have to move to the expo temporary to house the whole english congregation, we would. who wouldnt want to stay in the jurong building? it has already became a second home to many of us. when the building was being constructed, many of us went back late at night to prepare the main hall, to move the rubbish and everything. we literally gave our pain and sweat for it.

 

the bottomline is, when God speaks, we will obey. surely this move is not jus about what my pastor feels......where the presence of God leads, we will follow. whether this move to expo or not is the right thing to do, we will jus wait to see what God has prepared for us. when a church grows in influence, you can be sure of critics and people who would be extremely unhappy, why? its not them but the lord of this age. just like when nehemiah was rebuilding the walls of the temple, tobiah sambalat keep coming again and again to oppose them. but similarly, no matter what the world says, we will continue to move on to rebuild the walls.

 

pls bear with me, i tend to stray off topic because i type whatever that comes to my mind.

 

you may still dissagree and may never ever agree.. but honestly i don't care why because what matters is God is not against whatever we are doing. whatever men thinks, its only a comment/idea..but wat the Lord speaks/think, its a command.

 

to non christians who are reading, Christianity is really not that complicated. its jus about a God and You. but pple tend to make things complicated. haha.. thats what we have a brain for right? to think!!

[redname]

Originally posted by Phantom00@Jul 27 2005, 02:09 PM

Agree, I close my case.

 

But I wish to remind you it is biblically correct to use public rebuke in certain circumstances. We can be deceived into the love and peace doctrine and lose focus on the discipline and correction aspect.

 

I have had communications with MS' and have found him to be recalcitrant in having serious doctrinal errors. As for you I hope you will also watch your language and presentation, such as the way you comment about the CHC girls in your earlier posts.

public rebuke? pls read carefully wat the Bible says actually. there's a basis when u rebuke & correct others & urs doesn't lie in line at all. anyway, rebuking is done with love also & i dnt see any coming from u

 

my comments were bout the guys inside, not the gals, wake up ur idea. & it was a joke anyway

[Phantom00]

Ok, I see you're fired up, but there will be no ending in the debate on what the bible says. I will avoid that. But with whatever you say only doesn't equate the truth. I can only say if you present the kind of language in City Harvest and you were under the Pastor's charge you will be given counseling.

 

I have also observed your posts and your debate with other forumers, but have refrained from making comments. If you prefer to set yourself in self-denial mode then we have to leave it at that.

[jinhanz]

Originally posted by speedkills@Jul 27 2005, 03:04 PM

well honestly, this is what i feel thats best for the church. of course we arent making a mistake and finding the best way to remedy it. but if your saying that we are building a building thats too extravagant. it is nothing compared to the temple which king solomon build for the Lord. you can say how can we compare with the past. but i personally feel.. if it is possible, we would want to build another 10-20 $48000000 church because i serve a God who deserve my best. just like King David says, "i will not sacrifice a burnt offering which cost me nothing." over the years, we have seen so much of the faithfulness of God even while many times we were not. i personally felt that God had been sooooo faithful to my life while i remain unfaithful at times. so what is this sacrifice compared to the great God that i serve? and i am sure...if given another chance to build another building, we will make it even grander for the Lord to recite in! i would never settle for a vacant old theatre again.

 

with that said, we are defitnitely serving the Lord and not men. we are always speaking about moving out of our comfort zone and that is even if we have to move to the expo temporary to house the whole english congregation, we would. who wouldnt want to stay in the jurong building? it has already became a second home to many of us. when the building was being constructed, many of us went back late at night to prepare the main hall, to move the rubbish and everything. we literally gave our pain and sweat for it.

 

the bottomline is, when God speaks, we will obey. surely this move is not jus about what my pastor feels......where the presence of God leads, we will follow. whether this move to expo or not is the right thing to do, we will jus wait to see what God has prepared for us. when a church grows in influence, you can be sure of critics and people who would be extremely unhappy, why? its not them but the lord of this age. just like when nehemiah was rebuilding the walls of the temple, tobiah sambalat keep coming again and again to oppose them. but similarly, no matter what the world says, we will continue to move on to rebuild the walls.

 

pls bear with me, i tend to stray off topic because i type whatever that comes to my mind.

 

you may still dissagree and may never ever agree.. but honestly i don't care why because what matters is God is not against whatever we are doing. whatever men thinks, its only a comment/idea..but wat the Lord speaks/think, its a command.

 

to non christians who are reading, Christianity is really not that complicated. its jus about a God and You. but pple tend to make things complicated. haha.. thats what we have a brain for right? to think!!

sorry but i think this kind of total focus to ur god is the reasons why many are so aggressive towards christian or perhaps to be more focus chc members. i nv believe in racial cohesion liek what the government say. what we see now is juz people focus on other stuff liek money and status and couldn`t be too bothered to find another problem with another religion. Especially when i feel the government is takign action if any kind of racial problem or unhappiness. this is the actual reason why theres no racial riot in sg.

 

i use to be curious abt this religion thing. but after going to different places i juz feel that as a human being u juz have to choose what u want in life. i did go to chc before. the pastor is indeed good when it comes to tokign abt life and choosing the right thing to do through the bible. however other religions has also equally good words that can do a lot to one life. this religion thingy will go on and on forever. until one day a real god appear. so lets juz ignore and be more focus on what u wan and not too bother abt other people beliefs

 

and i feel that tokiong abt bikes will be more apporiate and interesting. leave the god thingy to the church or mosque or temple or wherever place

[Phantom00]

Originally posted by speedkills@Jul 27 2005, 03:04 PM

well honestly, this is what i feel thats best for the church. of course we arent making a mistake and finding the best way to remedy it. but if your saying that we are building a building thats too extravagant. it is nothing compared to the temple which king solomon build for the Lord. you can say how can we compare with the past. but i personally feel.. if it is possible, we would want to build another 10-20 $48000000 church because i serve a God who deserve my best. just like King David says, "i will not sacrifice a burnt offering which cost me nothing." over the years, we have seen so much of the faithfulness of God even while many times we were not. i personally felt that God had been sooooo faithful to my life while i remain unfaithful at times. so what is this sacrifice compared to the great God that i serve? and i am sure...if given another chance to build another building, we will make it even grander for the Lord to recite in! i would never settle for a vacant old theatre again.

 

with that said, we are defitnitely serving the Lord and not men. we are always speaking about moving out of our comfort zone and that is even if we have to move to the expo temporary to house the whole english congregation, we would. who wouldnt want to stay in the jurong building? it has already became a second home to many of us. when the building was being constructed, many of us went back late at night to prepare the main hall, to move the rubbish and everything. we literally gave our pain and sweat for it.

 

the bottomline is, when God speaks, we will obey. surely this move is not jus about what my pastor feels......where the presence of God leads, we will follow. whether this move to expo or not is the right thing to do, we will jus wait to see what God has prepared for us. when a church grows in influence, you can be sure of critics and people who would be extremely unhappy, why? its not them but the lord of this age. just like when nehemiah was rebuilding the walls of the temple, tobiah sambalat keep coming again and again to oppose them. but similarly, no matter what the world says, we will continue to move on to rebuild the walls.

 

pls bear with me, i tend to stray off topic because i type whatever that comes to my mind.

 

you may still dissagree and may never ever agree.. but honestly i don't care why because what matters is God is not against whatever we are doing. whatever men thinks, its only a comment/idea..but wat the Lord speaks/think, its a command.

 

to non christians who are reading, Christianity is really not that complicated. its jus about a God and You. but pple tend to make things complicated. haha.. thats what we have a brain for right? to think!!

Its a lengthy reply, but I appreciate the sincerity in your beliefs. As you have said you type whatever comes to your mind. I just think perhaps it will help if you ponder a bit on the issues involved, that could enable you to reply more to the point. Overall, I wish to reiterate that I trust CHC’s integrity on money matters, and I do appreciate its many contributions to society.

[redname]

Originally posted by Phantom00@Jul 27 2005, 06:12 PM

Ok, I see you're fired up, but there will be no ending in the debate on what the bible says. I will avoid that. But with whatever you say only doesn't equate the truth. I can only say if you present the kind of language in City Harvest and you were under the Pastor's charge you will be given counseling.

 

I have also observed your posts and your debate with other forumers, but have refrained from making comments. If you prefer to set yourself in self-denial mode then we have to leave it at that.

ooooohhhh, judgemental eh. seems like i prob got touchy on ur part. counselling? haha, jus cause i'm not the holy molly in chc's standards? so judgemental, no gd lah.

 

its wat in the heart thts impt. i dnt hide anyting & act holy moly here. i tok the same way in my own church too but pple know tht i'm jus like tht, they r more interest in the heart & not how we behave & send pple for counselling.

 

if u can see, the way u write & ur tone really adds more to the fire. i'm not refering to tis post only. if ur intention is really to start a fight then u can go ahead with tis but if u have no intention of tht, then better stop it & watch urself