City Harvest Church

[lava]

redname: u put the point across in great way.

 

"eh, if u r willing, do find out more about wats behind those things they do b4 u get so angry"

 

We often react when we only see things from our viewpoint. I was a buddhist for over 20years. I have some very close friends who are christians but i have nv heard of gospel from them. I wonder why they nv tell me the good news all these years.

 

I believe they did, it is just me who did not listen, my heart wasnt open.

 

A year ago, I found Him(of cos someone have invest a lot of time n energy on me). Life change for the better and I beginning to have answers to many life, living, purpose questions. Last evening, i am very touch, my church have an evanglism event, many many old folks came forward to receive Him.. I am praying for my old folks n friends now.

 

Why do people spend time n energy to tell u abt Him, simply bcos of Love.

[BikeLover]

Originally posted by hailang_82@Jun 17 2005, 11:46 PM

What's the difference between a religion and teaching?

 

How's religion different from teaching when the teaching requires u to follow a certain ritual.. chanting etc?

There is nothing wrong with chanting.

Chanting also helps me to gradually go into meditation. It is a way of teaching that you practice to learn the PEACE. Quite a good exercise.

Go and try it .... if you have any misunderstanding.

 

[BikeLover]

Originally posted by lava@Jun 17 2005, 04:03 PM

Before i know God.. i am mad hearing similar encounters, that before the loved one is gone, the believers would do their best to tell this loved one about God.

 

pls take a moment n think,

 

Why do the believer bother spending their energy n time "converting" these loved ones?

 

Why do they want to do so knowing that they might be "enemies" of the rest of familes(those who not know God)?

 

And how does it benefit them in doing so?

There are some people who don't like it that way, simple as that and they are happy and living like all others..... Pls don't tell me that "one way" is correct.

 

So let me ask you, if you are one of those people that BlackSheep said and you are faced with similar circumstances, will you do the same THING?

 

Careful, bro lava from your talk you are in danger of going into the "no-respect-for-others zone"..... pls don't!

 

"And how does it benefit them in doing so?" >> They "think" they will help others, but becos of the different cultural background and everybody's right to live the way they want it, these great "MATRYRS" had became problems themselves.

 

[BikeLover]

Originally posted by redname@Jun 18 2005, 11:00 AM

eh, if u r willing, do find out more about wats behind those things they do b4 u get so angry & wanna resort to violence. from ur statment, u did mention tht it was due to ur assumption, hhhhhmmmm, i do hope tht u understand assumptions shldn't be the way of life & if u've been to army, u'll prob heard of tis statment "dnt assume cause it makes an a$$ out of u & me"

 

i hope u dnt find me offensive cause i'm not really trying to. jus trying to make u realise tht there r still some space for sensible thots

 

Cool it bro redname. I understand you are a milder and not-so-radical christian.

 

PEACE

 

For friendly discussion, quite an interested question.......

IF you see people doing what those hard-cores were doing (as described by bro BlackSheep and Comics), will you stop them?

 

 

PEACE

[Guest max_nhk]

Originally posted by redname@Jun 18 2005, 11:00 AM

if u r willing, do find out more about wats behind those things they do

My distant grand-ma was converted during her last moments when she's under an un-recoverable unconsicous state.

 

The person who converted her was her only son. The one she gave birth to, loved and raised... That was almost ten years ago, till now, I've never figured out what other possible reasons could there be.

 

Grand-ma was a devoted buddhis all her life. A kind hearted person whose smile alone can warms people's heart. Everytime I imagine myself in her position -Whole life a Buddhis, but lying eternally in a Christian coffin + Executed by her last only close one- it's as good as hell. And I don't think it'll feel any better vice versa.

 

I hated her son only for that thing he did. In fact, I respect him for he has spent all his life in the education sector, retired after 10+ years as a principle. A very patient man who I sometimes seek for advice. I never bring up that topic to him, it doesn't matter. I strongly believe grand-ma has RIP regardless she was converted or not, and that's because she has done many good deeds in her life. NOT because of the religion attached to her.

 

 

Do you think the son will go to hell for his actions? Or will he go to heaven because he has served society well as a teacher? Or will he go to heaven because he believed in the correct religion?

 

It's hard to say, my experiences taught me that humans being humans make mistakes, including selfish and evil ones. And it takes courage to forgive.

[Guest max_nhk]

To be more specific and fair. Taking out the religious portion, it's obvious ONLY the action of converting a defenless person that is deem wrong. Anybody with the basic sense of 'fairness' and 'respect' would definetly agree with me.

Personally, I would labelled it as 'demonic', regardless of what religion was converted to.

 

This thread has gone wwwwwaaaaaaayyyyyy, off topic. But if it's possible to maintain a open minded approach, plus a willingness to understand, I think it's worth staying off topic a little longer.

[sheep]

Originally posted by redname@Jun 18 2005, 11:00 AM

eh, if u r willing, do find out more about wats behind those things they do b4 u get so angry & wanna resort to violence. from ur statment, u did mention tht it was due to ur assumption, hhhhhmmmm, i do hope tht u understand assumptions shldn't be the way of life & if u've been to army, u'll prob heard of tis statment "dnt assume cause it makes an a$$ out of u & me"

 

i hope u dnt find me offensive cause i'm not really trying to. jus trying to make u realise tht there r still some space for sensible thots

Well, yes I asumed that other radical christians do not respect other religion.

For my relatives, its a direct head on collision, not an assumption.

So i believe that in my own personal case, confrontation and listening will not solve everything. Thus keeping our distance might cool things.

For the others out there, i have no grudge against them unless they choose to invade.

I do believe in peace. Hopefully peace will prevail.

[sheep]

Originally posted by max_nhk@Jun 18 2005, 10:42 PM

To be more specific and fair. Taking out the religious portion, it's obvious ONLY the action of converting a defenless person that is deem wrong. Anybody with the basic sense of 'fairness' and 'respect' would definetly agree with me.

Personally, I would labelled it as 'demonic', regardless of what religion was converted to.

 

This thread has gone wwwwwaaaaaaayyyyyy, off topic. But if it's possible to maintain a open minded approach, plus a willingness to understand, I think it's worth staying off topic a little longer.

Yes i agree with you. harmony breeds happiness.

Lets all share with an open mind.

[lava]

"So let me ask you, if you are one of those people that BlackSheep said and you are faced with similar circumstances, will you do the same THING?"

 

I am in no position to judge if that sceniro is being force and God gives ppls the freedom to choose even in the time of adam n eve. He do not force.

 

Human beings err n we are not "perfect".. we may sometimes not able to put across our point in approiate manner, we may not display e behavoir a christian shld be, etc. thou we do our best.

 

To answer ur qns, i will nv force someone in believing in God, that oni turn a person away.. will be the very last thing i ever do. If i have been untactful in my words.. i'm sorry.

[redname]

Originally posted by BikeLover@Jun 18 2005, 08:46 PM

 

Cool it bro redname. I understand you are a milder and not-so-radical christian.

 

PEACE

 

For friendly discussion, quite an interested question.......

IF you see people doing what those hard-cores were doing (as described by bro BlackSheep and Comics), will you stop them?

 

 

PEACE

 

i'm not a milder one actually, wat i'm saying tht these radical ones u see dnt actually understand God's will, i'm actually a devoted christian & my walk with God has nvr been better. i'm also gng for peace here cause not everyone wld wanna take things like me. some other christians may start a flame war, so b4 tis happens, can clear some stuff then clear lor

[redname]

Originally posted by max_nhk@Jun 18 2005, 10:36 PM

My distant grand-ma was converted during her last moments when she's under an un-recoverable unconsicous state.

 

The person who converted her was her only son. The one she gave birth to, loved and raised... That was almost ten years ago, till now, I've never figured out what other possible reasons could there be.

 

Grand-ma was a devoted buddhis all her life. A kind hearted person whose smile alone can warms people's heart. Everytime I imagine myself in her position -Whole life a Buddhis, but lying eternally in a Christian coffin + Executed by her last only close one- it's as good as hell. And I don't think it'll feel any better vice versa.

 

I hated her son only for that thing he did. In fact, I respect him for he has spent all his life in the education sector, retired after 10+ years as a principle. A very patient man who I sometimes seek for advice. I never bring up that topic to him, it doesn't matter. I strongly believe grand-ma has RIP regardless she was converted or not, and that's because she has done many good deeds in her life. NOT because of the religion attached to her.

 

 

Do you think the son will go to hell for his actions? Or will he go to heaven because he has served society well as a teacher? Or will he go to heaven because he believed in the correct religion?

 

It's hard to say, my experiences taught me that humans being humans make mistakes, including selfish and evil ones. And it takes courage to forgive.

 

well, sorry to hear ur granny's death. u r asking a christian with qns about gng to heaven & hell, i tink u prob already expect my answer already lor. toking about exp, has it come to ur mind tht experinces can be gd & bad, so which type of exp did u had? anyway, ur part about forgiving, a bit off topic leh, how u link

[StingRhea]

I rather the mods move this topic to chatterbox.

[redname]

Originally posted by BaaBaa Black Sheep@Jun 18 2005, 10:50 PM

Well, yes I asumed that other radical christians do not respect other religion.

For my relatives, its a direct head on collision, not an assumption.

So i believe that in my own personal case, confrontation and listening will not solve everything. Thus keeping our distance might cool things.

For the others out there, i have no grudge against them unless they choose to invade.

I do believe in peace. Hopefully peace will prevail.

so its more of a bad experience lah? hhhhhhmm, jus remember tht not everyone is like tht lah

[BikeLover]

Originally posted by max_nhk@Jun 18 2005, 10:42 PM

This thread has gone wwwwwaaaaaaayyyyyy, off topic. But if it's possible to maintain a open minded approach, plus a willingness to understand, I think it's worth staying off topic a little longer.

I agree, esp when you try to sweep the dust under the carpet, you give others the impression the religion has something to hide. Also it deprives the younger christians and other believers a chance to learn....

[Guest max_nhk]

Originally posted by lava@Jun 18 2005, 11:48 PM

"So let me ask you, if you are one of those people that BlackSheep said and you are faced with similar circumstances, will you do the same THING?"

 

I am in no position to judge if that sceniro is being force and God gives ppls the freedom to choose even in the time of adam n eve. He do not force.

 

Human beings err n we are not "perfect".. we may sometimes not able to put across our point in approiate manner, we may not display e behavoir a christian shld be, etc. thou we do our best.

 

To answer ur qns, i will nv force someone in believing in God, that oni turn a person away.. will be the very last thing i ever do. If i have been untactful in my words.. i'm sorry.

Is your question directed to me? If so then here's my ans, it's pretty simple actually.

 

I would do what myself and everybody else would do. That is to choose what I felt is the most appropriate decision during that moment. Or in your own words, our best.

 

Should the decision be right, then I'm glad. Should it be wrong, then I'll learn my lesson, see if there's any way to recitified, else forgive myself.

 

Life can be very very complicated if you choose to be knowledgeable.

[BikeLover]

Originally posted by redname@Jun 18 2005, 11:49 PM

i'm not a milder one actually, wat i'm saying tht these radical ones u see dnt actually understand God's will, i'm actually a devoted christian & my walk with God has nvr been better. i'm also gng for peace here cause not everyone wld wanna take things like me. some other christians may start a flame war, so b4 tis happens, can clear some stuff then clear lor

You forgot to answer my question..... also hope for bro Lava and other christian frens reading to answer......

 

IF you see people doing what those hard-cores were doing (as described by bro BlackSheep and Comics), will you stop them?

 

Peace

[Guest max_nhk]

Originally posted by redname@Jun 18 2005, 11:54 PM

well, sorry to hear ur granny's death. u r asking a christian with qns about gng to heaven & hell, i tink u prob already expect my answer already lor. toking about exp, has it come to ur mind tht experinces can be gd & bad, so which type of exp did u had? anyway, ur part about forgiving, a bit off topic leh, how u link

Good or bad, it's only in the mind. If it's twisted, good can be bad, bad can be good.

 

An experience (or any topic) can have multiple perspective, not just good or bad. Biased people just choose a single perspective and superglued it to their heart. A fairer way is to analyze all different perspectives first, then decide.

 

Sorry but my exp is personal. But my approach to such things are very simple. Every religion has the same basic principles. Honesty, respect, share, love, trust, help others, etc. So long as one tries his/her best to achieve these, he/she will go to some place nice (heaven or wherever). A true God will understand that not everybody can just detach their religion when they feel like it.

 

As for the forgiving, it's more for every one. Esp for those who has bad experiences. Why hold painful grudges when it's over and nothing much can be done already? Just let it go lah.

[Guest max_nhk]

Originally posted by BikeLover@Jun 19 2005, 12:25 AM

You forgot to answer my question..... also hope for bro Lava and other christian frens reading to answer......

 

IF you see people doing what those hard-cores were doing (as described by bro BlackSheep and Comics), will you stop them?

 

Peace

It'll not be easy to stop people whom you share the same boat. Takes courage to risk a relationship and confront fellow members/friends.

[comics00]

Originally posted by hailang_82@Jun 17 2005, 11:46 PM

What's the difference between a religion and teaching?

 

How's religion different from teaching when the teaching requires u to follow a certain ritual.. chanting etc?

i didn't know that there was a diff between religion & teaching till ~2001. i was like majority of the buddhist out there, i failed to ask myself this question : wat did Buddha really wanted to preach? until i started to spent time in the library, 'cos my daugther loves the library, i read up abt religion. Islam, Tao Da Jin (Lao Zi), Buddhasim & Christianity.

Buddha's life story, Buddhism, how it spread throughout the globe caught my attention. then i started visting those purely buddhist temple hunting for books to read n talking to the monks. from there i understand that Buddhism is a teaching. it teaches me the way of life to attain inner peace. that's wat Buddha was teaching 2,500 year ago, hoping that every being on earth through his teaching will eventually attain enlightenment & become Buddha just like himself.

 

above is purely my own understanding abt Buddhism, pls feel free to comment 'cos i m still leaning, i'll always be leaning

 

*btw i was in a Catholic sch for 13yr, some of my relatives, friends & colleauges r Christian. so i know wats a bible & personally has 3 versions. so dont tell me i won't know until i read the bible infact i have 1 in my room rite now.

[MS]

Originally posted by BikeLover@Jun 19 2005, 12:25 AM

You forgot to answer my question..... also hope for bro Lava and other christian frens reading to answer......

 

IF you see people doing what those hard-cores were doing (as described by bro BlackSheep and Comics), will you stop them?

 

Peace

As the bible has said some will hear but not understand. And the word has very evidently shown its creditbility here in this little part of a forum. No pt debating further. Let God do his works in his ways for his ways are much higher than our understanding. Christian brothers, Where's your faith?

 

To the above quote, If I were to see those so called hard core christians, I will simply leave them to do what they want. If I stop them what does it actually benefit us? It doesnt but rather creates more arguments between christians. I've had enough of the wrong doctrines in the christianity sector. So why not let God handle it? He has even more powerful ways of doing things. We only have our part to do. That is to be gentle to everyone. For gentleness is love and love is the greatest of all.

[redname]

Originally posted by BikeLover@Jun 19 2005, 12:25 AM

You forgot to answer my question..... also hope for bro Lava and other christian frens reading to answer......

 

IF you see people doing what those hard-cores were doing (as described by bro BlackSheep and Comics), will you stop them?

 

Peace

ok, sorry i missed tht out. frankly speaking, i haven't seen such cases yet, as in really forcing christianity down but if i do, i'll prob rebuke them & them them christianity isn't like tis

[BikeLover]

Originally posted by MS@Jun 19 2005, 04:38 AM

As the bible has said some will hear but not understand. And the word has very evidently shown its creditbility here in this little part of a forum. No pt debating further. Let God do his works in his ways for his ways are much higher than our understanding. Christian brothers, Where's your faith?

 

To the above quote, If I were to see those so called hard core christians, I will simply leave them to do what they want. If I stop them what does it actually benefit us? It doesnt but rather creates more arguments between christians. I've had enough of the wrong doctrines in the christianity sector. So why not let God handle it? He has even more powerful ways of doing things. We only have our part to do. That is to be gentle to everyone. For gentleness is love and love is the greatest of all.

It is with this kind of attitude when the true misunderstanding arose..... this kind of I-am-correct-you-don't-understand attitude. Anyway this is a forum, that is why u post to discuss, rite? After so many discussions with the other christians frens like redname, lava and max (and the discussions are cordial in nature), I can actually listen to them better (and not you) becos they are willing to speak out in a open-minded manner.

 

Your doctrine don't seems very good either. For example, one day when you are very weak and too sick to move and 12 rogue monks pulled you into the temple to shave. I know you very well and I know these monks are wrong, but I just stand there doing nothing, becos "I don't want to create frictions between buddhists". I let Buddha decide mah. Now you are alive but cannot move, so you lan-lan watch as your hair get shaved one.....by.....one. The rest touch-wood so I don't say..... kekeke. And to add oil to the fire, I quote "If I stop them what does it actually benefit us?"

 

Pls take this with an open-mind. Just reversing the situation to hope you understand why some bros get out the topic and why I raised the question to see what others think.....

 

[redname]

Originally posted by max_nhk@Jun 19 2005, 12:49 AM

Good or bad, it's only in the mind. If it's twisted, good can be bad, bad can be good.

 

An experience (or any topic) can have multiple perspective, not just good or bad. Biased people just choose a single perspective and superglued it to their heart. A fairer way is to analyze all different perspectives first, then decide.

 

Sorry but my exp is personal. But my approach to such things are very simple. Every religion has the same basic principles. Honesty, respect, share, love, trust, help others, etc. So long as one tries his/her best to achieve these, he/she will go to some place nice (heaven or wherever). A true God will understand that not everybody can just detach their religion when they feel like it.

 

As for the forgiving, it's more for every one. Esp for those who has bad experiences. Why hold painful grudges when it's over and nothing much can be done already? Just let it go lah.

precisely, gd or bad is up to tht person's mind. so y do u need to tink of tht guy's intention as bad? its only to u thts bad mah.

 

well, i did mention tht christianity isn't bout forcing it down to pple & the Bible did mention tht there will still be pple who doesn't believe, i tink tht explains ur part bout saying "A true God will understand that not everybody can just detach their religion when they feel like it."

 

i highlighted the forgiving part cause i feel its off topic from wat u were writing, thts y i catch no ball

[redname]

Originally posted by comics00@Jun 19 2005, 02:04 AM

i didn't know that there was a diff between religion & teaching till ~2001. i was like majority of the buddhist out there, i failed to ask myself this question : wat did Buddha really wanted to preach? until i started to spent time in the library, 'cos my daugther loves the library, i read up abt religion. Islam, Tao Da Jin (Lao Zi), Buddhasim & Christianity.

Buddha's life story, Buddhism, how it spread throughout the globe caught my attention. then i started visting those purely buddhist temple hunting for books to read n talking to the monks. from there i understand that Buddhism is a teaching. it teaches me the way of life to attain inner peace. that's wat Buddha was teaching 2,500 year ago, hoping that every being on earth through his teaching will eventually attain enlightenment & become Buddha just like himself.

 

above is purely my own understanding abt Buddhism, pls feel free to comment 'cos i m still leaning, i'll always be leaning

 

*btw i was in a Catholic sch for 13yr, some of my relatives, friends & colleauges r Christian. so i know wats a bible & personally has 3 versions. so dont tell me i won't know until i read the bible infact i have 1 in my room rite now.

3 versions? i only know 2 wor, the christian one & the catholic one

[redname]

Originally posted by MS@Jun 19 2005, 04:38 AM

As the bible has said some will hear but not understand. And the word has very evidently shown its creditbility here in this little part of a forum. No pt debating further. Let God do his works in his ways for his ways are much higher than our understanding. Christian brothers, Where's your faith?

 

To the above quote, If I were to see those so called hard core christians, I will simply leave them to do what they want. If I stop them what does it actually benefit us? It doesnt but rather creates more arguments between christians. I've had enough of the wrong doctrines in the christianity sector. So why not let God handle it? He has even more powerful ways of doing things. We only have our part to do. That is to be gentle to everyone. For gentleness is love and love is the greatest of all.

i believe u r a christian rite, so can go & read up on the part where the apostle paul said tht if we see anyone in the body of Christ doing wrg, we did go & tell them (tell them only ah, not quarrel) & try to correct them