Wts: Flip prata alert!

[Kapo]

As a public service to the SingaporeBikes community, this is a public service announcement regarding a guy from the West buying and selling bikes posing as a private buyer but is actually a small time trader, usually buying Class 2b bikes (in some cases, involved in minor accidents) where he will clean them up and repair and repaint if necessary and for Class 2 bikes, usually getting those from expats advertising on the expat sites.

 

(The following in bold are current names, numbers and bikes that's he's advertising.)

 

He is known to adopt the names of:

Dave, Corgi123, Iceman24, Gutripper, Maverick, JohnNg, lemonboy, yoyobear, jkeee

 

And has used the following numbers in his adverts:

81974858, 82049645, 84598505, 86883365, 86895409, 87000035, 90894216, 90922199, 91938446, 91999063, 92316109, 94568750, 96999051, 98750414, 98750414, 98835100, 98861626

 

Selling these kind of bikes:

CB400, FZ6N, Honda Helix, Wave-S, Steed, Phantom, Sonic, YBR125, X1R, PCX125, Spark, Runner, X11, Daelim Cruiser, X9, Fino, Peugeot Vivacity, Suzuki scooter (FBH3601E), Pegaso 650, GSXR600, GSXR1100

 

Using these kinds of wording:

"Helping my dad sell his Honda CB400"

"Helping my brother to sell away his bike as he went overseas for studies."

"Helping my sister to sell a Well maintain Fz16."

"Helping my uncle.." etc..

 

A selection of his current ads (if he is a legitimate trader, why is there the need to use different contact numbers?):

 

number colour bike wording

9143 4233 blue wave

9199 8569 white SYM Combiz Tip Top Condition

9350 4694 red msx 125 Helping my sister to sell

9678 3510 black road king

8197 4858 blue CB400 vtec 1

8225 7859 black CB400 spec 2

8459 8505 blue Honda helix

8688 3365 black CB400 spec 2

8689 5409 silver FZ6N

9089 4216 blue Wave-S Bedok

9231 6109 black Honda Steed Aljunied

9231 6109 maroon Phantom 200 Aljunied

 

His latest 'flip prata' deal:

 

Buy from expat on Tuesday 17 Mar 2015 at $4K:

 

Flip on Wednesday 18 Mar 2015 at $9K:

 

Now there's nothing wrong with doing what JohnNg (or Dave or Corgi123 or Iceman24 or Gutripper or Maverick) does, but if you're going to do this, at least be up front and say you're a dealer / trader. The main reason why this is important is that they are able to avoid the responsibilities of a professional trader. For example, they can sell you something not safe or roadworthy and you couldn't get your money back (perhaps via CASE) if you later found that the bike was involved in an accident and was badly repaired. Why not? Simply because he is a private owner, there'll little protection for the consumer. On the other hand, a registered trader would be forced to repair or refund your money if the vehicle was found to be dangerous to use.

 

Since this person is only interested in the profit margin, do you think that he would spend much of that ensuring that all safety aspects of the bike was tip top? But that's what I would consider a basic responsiblity for anyone selling a vehicle. Especially when he buys a bike one day and LITERALLY advertises it on the next, I don't think he has the time to give the bike a thorough check over when he has to: buy the insurance, go to the bank get the cash, go to the LTA do the transfer and also, create and post the new ad out on 4 or 5 different websites.

 

So, to all you part time traders out there, declare yourself as a trader if you are trading in bikes, that is the least you can do in your pursuit for money. Speaking of which, be aware that the Inland Revenue Authority of Singapore is looking for people like you, who deals in cash and are therefore able to fail to declare this income.

 

Just be honest, it's not worth hiding because, well, you can't hide.

 

You ARE being watched.

 

Note:

'JohnNg' has actually been doing this for a few years already and after annoying several SBF netizens in 2013, stopped advertising his flip prata deals there, having to use other 'expat' buying / selling websites instead. But he's started advertising on the BikeMart section of SBF again so do watch out.

 

Note of Appreciation:

Thank you to SBF for making this a 'Sticky', at least for now. This shows that SBF is truly a community, one of caring bikers who genuinely look out for each other so that we can spend more time on our hobby and less time dealing with the few unscrupulous individuals around.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Kapo

[MR BIKER]

well done.hmmmmmmmm

[j1605198987]

well done, many prata flipper around but this one seems professional, so many numbers

[Little_kambing]

Thumbs up for TS!Great info to share esp for newbies,dun end up paying roti cheese price for a roti kosong

[878]

Great work TS! Such low life scum should be exposed and made known to as many people as possible!

[MrHui]

:thumb:

[diruiz]

this man deserves that last piece of cookie/wanton/oneh-oneh

[zalk]

Meh. If no one bought it at $5k what makes one think someone will buy it at $9k?

[luca9277]

I don't see the point of this post.

You can have a private person scouting the web for good deals, perhaps off ppl who want to sell quick at a lower price, then he advertise at a higher value.

It doesn't mean people will buy but.. C'mon what's wrong with it?

Also.. As a private buyer if you want warranty you go to a dealer, not a private person.

If someone does own a dealer and decides to sell privately is that a crime?

Don't give other people power over your safety, be smart, buy from a dealer or get the bike thoroughly checked either before or right after you buy it.

It is your responsibility, no one will care about you safety and well being more than you do..

As for this guy making a few bucks buying and selling well... Good on him if he can make a profit in a tough market like SG

[theblackmamba]

go and PWN his mother then

[blademaster2010]

Well said luca9277. Pp make money is right. But what this will do is inflate the price of motorcycles. Tys y bikes r gettg more n more expensive. If u rich, u wont care. But if u poor n looking for an affordable bike.....good luck.

I wish u all huat ah

[Dicky]

I think the TS did a good deed by raising awareness. Singapore used to be a very safe place to buy and sell bikes. Now we have scammers from all over Europe and even locally. You forget that this forum is a community. It's there to help each other and keep each other informed. You can do what you want with that information. No one is telling you not to buy from this or any other seller.

 

Or you think it's better we kept quiet if we knew something was not quite right?

[oohpa]

Luca9277, I agreed and to all buyers here you just need to b vigilant not only here but all Internet deal. Otherwise go to proper shop or dealer. U trust no one. Otherwise you just need to pay for your lesson, like me..

[slkl]

Buy with eyes open and remember no one forces anyone to buy. Sell with honesty, any problems with bike please be upfront.

[cgl]

I don't see the point of this post.

You can have a private person scouting the web for good deals, perhaps off ppl who want to sell quick at a lower price, then he advertise at a higher value.

It doesn't mean people will buy but.. C'mon what's wrong with it?

Also.. As a private buyer if you want warranty you go to a dealer, not a private person.

If someone does own a dealer and decides to sell privately is that a crime?

Don't give other people power over your safety, be smart, buy from a dealer or get the bike thoroughly checked either before or right after you buy it.

It is your responsibility, no one will care about you safety and well being more than you do..

As for this guy making a few bucks buying and selling well... Good on him if he can make a profit in a tough market like SG

 

I think you missed one important point that Kapo made. This reseller is posing as a private seller. In private transactions, some transparency and honesty is expected and assumed.

 

A dealer has a shop and reputation to maintain, this guy doesn't because he is changing his identity all the time.

[matthias76]

Behind all the beautiful, moral reasons why the thread was started, is there also some other unknown reasons?

 

I don't agree with the argument that "Simply because he is a private owner, there'll little protection for the consumer. On the other hand, a registered trader would be forced to repair or refund your money if the vehicle was found to be dangerous to use."

 

In a business transaction, it takes 2 parties - the seller as well as the buyer. Private/self or business/trader doesn't guarantee a sweeter deal for that matter.

 

"In private transactions, some transparency and honesty is expected and assumed."

 

Neither is that statement above any more truth than the "Law of Averages"

 

Honesty, Morality are relatives that some have and some don't. I certainly speak from experience having bought things from private persons as well as business entities. There are more factors to consider when you are running a business rather than trying to get rid of a piece of unwanted equipment. The person/ entity in this equation doesn't matter.

 

Truth be told, I don't think we should go all out to isolate, or AIM this fellow. It's his right as a person to conduct trade in manners he deem fit. If someone indeed bought a bike which is only worth $5000 for $9000 from this guy, I would say the buyer deserves what he gets for not doing proper research.

 

Like how I deserve it when I bought a lemon from a private person years ago, and spent nearly as much repairing it at a business when I could spend half or lesser than that in a reputable shop.

Edited March 19, 2015 by matthias76

[Lester28]

I don't see the point of this post.

You can have a private person scouting the web for good deals, perhaps off ppl who want to sell quick at a lower price, then he advertise at a higher value.

It doesn't mean people will buy but.. C'mon what's wrong with it?

Also.. As a private buyer if you want warranty you go to a dealer, not a private person.

If someone does own a dealer and decides to sell privately is that a crime?

Don't give other people power over your safety, be smart, buy from a dealer or get the bike thoroughly checked either before or right after you buy it.

It is your responsibility, no one will care about you safety and well being more than you do..

As for this guy making a few bucks buying and selling well... Good on him if he can make a profit in a tough market like SG

 

 

 

luca I also think you missed a point. I don't think the TS is referring to the fact that this trader is making a few bucks. Yes good luck to him if he wants to take a gamble on the bike market. But the point is that he's posing as a private buyer and then selling the bike quickly to make a few bucks (up to 5K is a few bucks to you?) and for someone like that, money is the focus, not safety. I believe that safety is very important for us especially on two wheels, so someone that is driven by making a buck by turning the bike around as quickly as possible is not going to care much whether the bike is safe to ride or not. I believe that a few of us has encountered such traders where things like a leaking fork or faulty brake were covered up temporarily before a sale and because the selling price was low you also overlooked these important areas. So I also think the TS did us a good favour by reminding us there are people out there who don't have the same passion for bikes and riding brotherhood as some of us but are more interested in making a quick buck (or a few thousand bucks) possibly at the expense of your safety?

[GuiNNeSS]

Erm.... what's wrong with that? Willing buyer and willing seller? Used bike dealers can as easily sell you something less than perfect and as is condition.

[imjustin]

Willing buyer willing seller, yes, agreed.

But when its such blatant and shameless profiteering, it causes prices of secondhand bikes to be articifically inflated.

 

Bad enough rising COE has artificially inflated the 2ndhand market, and so many people thinks its "common market practice".

 

Let prata flippers continue doing their ways, and soon everyone will also think " its common market practice" to do what he does.

 

Welcome to SG, where old bikes can be sold more than they were bought brand new 10 years later and people think that it's absolutely fine.

 

Not only that, all the arguments above hold true too. Have we lost our sense of ethics and moral practices in the pursue of money? Perhaps this is the world of business, but to see people start to adopt the dog-eat-dog mindset is just sad. At the end of the day, who loses? The weak, the poor and the needy. In this context, I'm talking about those who depends on motorcycles on a living, those who use it as a daily transport, those

who struggle to make ends meet on 2-wheels. Soon, there will be only willing sellers, no wiling buyers coz nothing is affordable to those who desperately need motorbikes the most.

 

Thanks for the expose OP.

[reshy]

i agree with the TS bout the traders needing to be transparent bout his deal. but let's say he in fact is not a dealer. really a private seller juz trying 2 sell his bike or bikes. any proof that he is a trader and not a private seller? TS based his conclusions on the basis that he has multiple post selling different bikes. but any proof he is a trader? btw, i'm not defending the "dealer" in any way. juz basing on what i read... innocent until proven guilty... not guilty until proven innocent...

[An3pZ]

Willing buyer, willing seller:thumb:

That's the whole point here.

Better is to spend a bit & get the bike's integrity checked. Or a little step further, get the commonly wear/tear parts replaced. But BEST, get a brandnew bike!!

[Dicky]

i agree with the TS bout the traders needing to be transparent bout his deal. but let's say he in fact is not a dealer. really a private seller juz trying 2 sell his bike or bikes. any proof that he is a trader and not a private seller? TS based his conclusions on the basis that he has multiple post selling different bikes. but any proof he is a trader? btw, i'm not defending the "dealer" in any way. juz basing on what i read... innocent until proven guilty... not guilty until proven innocent...

 

reshy you missed the point - I don't think TS even care if this is a trader in real life or not, the fact is he is acting like a private buyer. But you really so naive think he is just another innocent private bike lover? If so then why need to have so many names when advertising the bikes? And why need to have like how many, 15 or 20 different handphone numbers? And can keep so many models of bikes? And finally, why need to make up story about why selling the bike like selling for brother, uncle, sister, grandfather? haha...

 

You also have so many names, handphones, bikes and relatives is it?

[matthias76]

There's nothing wrong with TS starting a thread to alert forummers of people's bad reputation in selling bikes. In fact, we should all be as helpful.

 

However, the content of his thread is stating that the "poser" is flipping bikes for a profit. There was no complaint in so far about the quality of the "poser"'s bike sold. And its a very damaging way to allege that just because he decided to do his business this way, it was for the purpose of evading taxes and shirk responsibility after the bike is sold. I think this allegation is not fair to any one here.

 

Whether one claims that he is selling for relatives or for himself, does it matter as to the condition of the bike? A buyer who does not research into buying and relies on an advertisement to decide deserves what he pays. That is the proverbial wisdom in "A fool and his money is soon parted".

 

Again I must stress - I have no qualms or quarrels with neither the TS or the "poser". But lets be a more responsible internet/ forum user and not hurl allegations or threats in the same manner as what TS did.

 

But for someone who has 51 post counts of "Ups for a ducati" and more than 50% of the 51 posts in 1 single day, I really have a feeling that this was a case of "stung". TS could have sold his Ducati for a low price only to be flipped by the "poser" and now taking a private vendetta. My question now to TS, "Do you like this allegation I made about you?"

Edited March 19, 2015 by matthias76

[Dicky]

imjustin made a very good point also

 

If you all think is 'OK' to let these small time traders profiteer coz willing buyer willing seller what?

 

Then think about this, what about the simple uncle who just needs a bike to earn a basic living, he also cannot buy anymore (not because of COE high, that one is another problem) but because of all the actions of the prata flippers, this will raise the average price for old second hand bike to a new higher level.

 

Just because of these few greedy small time traders who selfishly only buy to sell to make a quick profit and don’t care about those less fortunate who have to work hard just to survive.

[srini2411]

There was a moron few months ago advertising high end bicycles for dirt price and would ask to transfer money for ordering. This moron filled up the Web page with his ads and real ads got lost . What a waste of time! !!