Breaking in of engine

[bebear]

very educational...

One of the reasons why I love this forum...

[Terrible One]

here a tip for all, u dun have to wear out ur engine to achieve clean internal.

by proper tune air/fuel mixture n run at 600~800 deg C, it's self clean.

EFI can be more manageable with pc3.

 

 

Extracts from NGK spark plug, Air-Fuel Mixture:

* Excessively rich air-fuel mixtures can cause the plug tip temperatures to decrease and carbon deposits to accumulate, possibly causing fouling and misfires.

* Excessively lean air-fuel mixtures can cause the cylinder and plug temperatures to increase, possibly resulting in knock and/or pre-ignition. This may cause damage to the spark plug and/or seriously damage the engine.

* If an air-fuel ratio meter or gas analyzer is not available, it will be necessary to visually inspect the spark plugs frequently during the tuning process to determine the proper air-fuel mixture.

 

 

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/tech_support/spark_plugs/image/charttempfiringend.gif

That's off topic already.. We're talking about the amount of leakage at the piston rings

[Terrible One]

sorry, i dun want to discussion this anymore.

u want data....just go n listen how rough their engine runs (those whom had done hard break-in).

 

So that's a baseless claim? I'm not lucky enough to be able to afford a brand new bike,but I did hard break in for my car.. It sounds the same as the other cars who follow factory breaking in procedure.. power wise can't tell cos it's a low powered car,ca't feel even if there 1 or 2HP diff..

[stsoh]

That's off topic already.. We're talking about the amount of leakage at the piston rings

this is not off-topic, it's tie.

mototune has ignore many factors.

dun u know it take a diamond cutter to hone the linear.

carbon steel tool can't do much.

 

So that's a baseless claim? I'm not lucky enough to be able to afford a brand new bike,but I did hard break in for my car.. It sounds the same as the other cars who follow factory breaking in procedure.. power wise can't tell cos it's a low powered car,ca't feel even if there 1 or 2HP diff..

 

it isn't baseless, any mechanical machine abuse will wear considerably.

wun feel the immediate but down a yr, it will gets rough n worst.

i have seen n heard many abused bikes tat run rough n noisy.

seriously do u think by whacking ur engine can really make one part mate n ignore the rest.

have u ever install a piston ring?

do u know tat there is gap where the piston ring end catchment?

u can't achieve 100% load on street, did it on dyno?

[xXxRatedxXx]

Ic... thx for the info st soh.... your contribution help me understand more about how such things work... :thumb:

[crazydj]

I don't know about you guys but, if i had a new bike or car, i would follow the manufacturer's instructions word by word. They made the car and they should know best.

 

So i would just drive normally, following the instructions from the manufacturers.

[Terrible One]

this is not off-topic, it's tie.

mototune has ignore many factors.

dun u know it take a diamond cutter to hone the linear.

carbon steel tool can't do much.

 

 

 

it isn't baseless, any mechanical machine abuse will wear considerably.

wun feel the immediate but down a yr, it will gets rough n worst.

i have seen n heard many abused bikes tat run rough n noisy.

seriously do u think by whacking ur engine can really make one part mate n ignore the rest.

have u ever install a piston ring?

do u know tat there is gap where the piston ring end catchment?

u can't achieve 100% load on street, did it on dyno?

 

I mean meter reading on vibration and loudness of engine,not how good ur hearing is or ur butt dyno. I'm not saying that uur are wrong,but if u claimed that all engines that are broken in the motoman way will be louder and rough den u need proof on paper.

 

And to me that is not abuse, u go Youtube and see how they ride the brand new Kawas in their factory before they roll out. If revving a brand new engine hard will damage it maybe we can request for 'virgin' bikes from the manufacture.

 

And about oil. Since u mentioned that factory run in is advisable,den why do u rec syn oil why manual rec mineral?

[omnislash]

I don't know about you guys but, if i had a new bike or car, i would follow the manufacturer's instructions word by word. They made the car and they should know best.

 

So i would just drive normally, following the instructions from the manufacturers.

 

Again, pertaining to this statement, my manual says change oil at 10,000km interval which I srsly won't follow. Sometimes, the manual is just recycled from older generations, likewise the break in period and method.

[xXxRatedxXx]

I don't know about you guys but, if i had a new bike or car, i would follow the manufacturer's instructions word by word. They made the car and they should know best.

 

So i would just drive normally, following the instructions from the manufacturers.

 

Manufacturer tell you to go jump down you jump??? hahaahhaaa... relax ah riff.... joking!!

[stsoh]

....see how they ride the brand new Kawas in their factory before they roll out. If revving a brand new engine hard will damage it maybe we can request for 'virgin' bikes from the manufacture.

 

And about oil. Since u mentioned that factory run in is advisable,den why do u rec syn oil why manual rec mineral?

factory or authorized mro (Maintenance Repair Overhaul) shops run the engine in stages.

engines r run to check it so tat meet specifications of design, they dun run like mototune style.

 

owners manual did not specify mineral, semi or syn but high end sport cars will specify full syn.

for bikes, it normally specify use api 'G' or 'H' 10w-40 eo.

this is becoz after api 'H' anti-wear agent (zddp) is replaced by another ingredient anti-friction agent.

since nowadays technology r so advance.

i like to keep my bike as new as long as possible, thus i use full syn eo on next eo change. so far my baby is still as new as i brought 6 yrs ago.

so it's up to u, wear out ur engine faster or keep the close tolerance as long as possible.

oh, another thing i want to point out is race engines r rebuilt with loose tolerance coz it is constantly at top end rpm to generate it's max hp, thus higher temp will coz parts to expand more.

Edited February 20, 2010 by stsoh

[omnislash]

this is not off-topic, it's tie.

mototune has ignore many factors.

dun u know it take a diamond cutter to hone the linear.

carbon steel tool can't do much.

 

Again, with all due respect and pertaining to this statement:

 

If you're saying motortune implied that the cross-hatch surface is worn out during the piston ring mating process, motortune didn't. They only said the peaks are worn off but the cross hatch remains which is totally possible without a diamond cutter.

 

I do agree with you on 1 point, "Its a never ending topic, its your bike and do what you want."

 

Bottom line, I feel no one can really prove which method is right and thus no right in saying who is wrong... You just have to do your own research and judge for yourself based on your own aptitude, knowledge and for some, experience.

 

Like yourself, u claim you have experienced whatever and so you chose the soft method.

 

Like Raptor, he claimed he has experienced whatever and so he chose the hard method.

 

I'm more towards the hard method but I wouldn't redline a new machine. I'll definitely use mineral oil though. I would share my opinion but I think it'll be a bit over if one tries to influence other pple's opinion. Well, its a discussion, not a war.

[crazydj]

Manufacturer tell you to go jump down you jump??? hahaahhaaa... relax ah riff.... joking!!

 

You never know chirs. Skali when you jump down, your car can fly later? How?

[xXxRatedxXx]

Interesting stuff.... since we're on that point... which bikes are suitable for ramming and which are not? Those made in Thailand? Malaysia? China? Japan? Or rather which models? Opinions pls..

 

You never know chirs. Skali when you jump down, your car can fly later? How?

 

don need la..... i rmb got one siao eh pour red bull in his tank.... cos he thought red bull give the bike wings.... LOL!! :lol:

[xXxRatedxXx]

double post

[stsoh]

here r reasons tat every sound mechanical engrs knows mototune is a BS:

1) for those whom thinks tat the piston ring seals better after hard-break-in, there is compression test which mototune dun bother to do b4 n after.

2) there is a gap at the piston ring catchment ends, tat's why we install piston rings ends 180 degree apart from each other.

3) so call side thrust of the piston ring from combustion pressure is 1000x much less than the down force pressure (ring end gaps allows gas to pass).

4) film of lubricant btwn the ring n linear act as seal, not the surface2surface contact.

5) running at optimum temperature 600~800 deg C reduce carbon deposit but mototune didn't even knew about this.

6) even with high compression engine if the air/fuel mix r rich carbon deposit will be there.

7) it's near impossible to seat piston ring/linear to the micron b4 out stress other components.

8) ...........

[MrLau]

Most of the engine is already 'run-in' in the factory, you no need to worry about the piston ring, seals, cross-hatch, etc.

 

From what I know, once the engine is completely assembled, he engine shaft will be mounted to a rotating mechine, without carbs (or EFI) and spark plug.

 

The engine will then leaving "running" for few hours with certain RPM, after that increase to higher RPM and "running" for shorter time.

 

After this, the engine will be installed with spark plug, fuel line, engine oil and carry out the hot test for few minutes.

 

With this process, more or less the engine is really for operation, not required much run-in.

 

Hard break-in is applicable to new engine block, piston rings, etc.

 

A bike is not just the combustion chamber, a new gearbox, new chain, sprocket is really tight and rigid, this will required a bit time to make them "mate" well.

[xXxRatedxXx]

Interesting.... perhaps this thread can be sticky-ed.

[ProFatSir]

Most of the engine is already 'run-in' in the factory, you no need to worry about the piston ring, seals, cross-hatch, etc.

 

From what I know, once the engine is completely assembled, he engine shaft will be mounted to a rotating mechine, without carbs (or EFI) and spark plug.

 

The engine will then leaving "running" for few hours with certain RPM, after that increase to higher RPM and "running" for shorter time.

 

After this, the engine will be installed with spark plug, fuel line, engine oil and carry out the hot test for few minutes.

 

With this process, more or less the engine is really for operation, not required much run-in.

 

Hard break-in is applicable to new engine block, piston rings, etc.

 

A bike is not just the combustion chamber, a new gearbox, new chain, sprocket is really tight and rigid, this will required a bit time to make them "mate" well.

 

yes-all new bikes/car are pre run in now.

 

btw,how long do we really drive or ride a machine?

[MrLau]

yes-all new bikes/car are pre run in now.

 

btw,how long do we really drive or ride a machine?

 

Haha... at least for the first 1000km lah....

 

After that, ride like you stole it ....

[ProFatSir]

Haha... at least for the first 1000km lah....

 

After that, ride like you stole it ....

 

hummm.....i dun remember riding like a ant.

 

ya man!thats the way!ride it like you stole it!