need advice on horn wiring

[kaozie]

if u follow according to the diagram, ur hooking up to ur horn switch, thus if u have other designs, pls draw clearer, otherwise i'm seeing it as the relay is hooking up to the horn switch directly. so unless u already know where ur horn switch wiring goes, u will need to strip the switch.

 

the circuit breaker meaning this http://i54.tinypic.com/161ynn4.jpg i dont know in technical terms what u call, but it breaks the circuit if there's no current.

 

a fuse is like insurance, not a must, if u want to risk it. i see no fuse in the diagram.

 

again i stress, i'm following exactly the whole wiring concept according to the diagram. i would say both r workable if they were hook up accordingly, but it would not be an ideal setup. if ur setup is according to the diagram, yes, i would say it might be the cause of ur battery drain, cos ur other components are missing/incomplete.

 

he already said his drawing is amatuer... at least he can draw a circuit...

 

if you dun know the terms used, then dun talk... it is very mis-leading... which is why i always say i dun understand what you talking.

 

and please, insurance or not, never advice anybody to take risk, always advise the proper way to do it. if they dun take the advise, then it is a different story...

 

in future, leave it to the pros to advise. hate it when the blind starts to lead the blind.

[arthur_chan]

http://i55.tinypic.com/atmar.jpg

 

this is my wiring diagram. n, no, it's not the same as either of mechwira's diagram.

[arthur_chan]

he already said his drawing is amatuer... at least he can draw a circuit...

 

if you dun know the terms used, then dun talk... it is very mis-leading... which is why i always say i dun understand what you talking.

 

and please, insurance or not, never advice anybody to take risk, always advise the proper way to do it. if they dun take the advise, then it is a different story...

 

in future, leave it to the pros to advise. hate it when the blind starts to lead the blind.

 

so u pro, pls tell me what that is.

 

an amature, i understand, but pls look at my wiring compared to his, totally diff. if connect using his diagram, yes it still works, u tell me no need to strip the horn switch, pls tell me u know where his horn switch wiring is, n if u know, pls do mine too. i'll like to challenge u to do exact same wiring without stripping the switch.

 

i may be amature in electrical, at least i know how to follow and what is what. if u're so pro, how come i dont see u talking in technical terms.

 

as for fuse, it's really up to u if u want to put. i stress again, it can be done without fuse, exactly like mechwira's diagram. and his diagram doesn't include a fuse. i had advised better to put, similar like insurance u want to buy or not. if u're very confident the wires wont short, a fuse is redundant.

 

fyi, i did my hella diy, without any help from anybody, i'm confident that my diagram is correct. thus if ur horns r hooked up exactly as my diagram, ur battery leak is not because of ur horns.

Edited April 1, 2011 by arthur_chan

[mechwira]

ok, know what? i'm not an electrical engineer. but i dont think my diagram creates confusion.

 

heres the diagram from the website.

 

http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/4081/circuit1.png

 

which, mr arthur chan, i believe is similar to yours with the exception of the fuse.

 

now from that diagram, let me just group the entire horn mechanism like so:

 

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/355/circuit2.png

 

and then i just move the relay/button out.....

 

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/9200/circuit3.png

 

and just move it below here:

 

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/7849/circuit4.png

 

and compare to my diagram:

 

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/2961/relay2q.jpg

 

not the same meh?

 

and i donno wat a circuit breaker is, but last time i checked http://i54.tinypic.com/161ynn4.jpg is the symbol for 'switch'. which pretty much describes the horn button and the relay, at least in layman.

[arthur_chan]

not the same meh?

yes it's the same, but if u notice what the author says, he's using the stock horn wires too, not exactly the same as in the diagram.

 

stock horn goes thru a bunch of other electrical stuff which we will not go into before it reach ur horn switch.

 

and i donno wat a circuit breaker is, but last time i checked http://i54.tinypic.com/161ynn4.jpg is the symbol for 'switch'. which pretty much describes the horn button and the relay, at least in layman.

what i mean "circuit breaker" is pt 85 & 86 of the relay. it breaks the circuit of pt30 & 87 if there's no current. there's actually 2 circuits in a relay if u break them up. the only thing is that one circuit will activate the other.

[kaozie]

so u pro, pls tell me what that is.

 

an amature, i understand, but pls look at my wiring compared to his, totally diff. if connect using his diagram, yes it still works, u tell me no need to strip the horn switch, pls tell me u know where his horn switch wiring is, n if u know, pls do mine too. i'll like to challenge u to do exact same wiring without stripping the switch.

 

i may be amature in electrical, at least i know how to follow and what is what. if u're so pro, how come i dont see u talking in technical terms.

 

as for fuse, it's really up to u if u want to put. i stress again, it can be done without fuse, exactly like mechwira's diagram. and his diagram doesn't include a fuse. i had advised better to put, similar like insurance u want to buy or not. if u're very confident the wires wont short, a fuse is redundant.

 

fyi, i did my hella diy, without any help from anybody, i'm confident that my diagram is correct. thus if ur horns r hooked up exactly as my diagram, ur battery leak is not because of ur horns.

 

since when i said i'm pro? which sentence did i said i am???

 

and please, you can find that circuit from the Hella horn box...

 

why should i talk in technical terms? i dun have to prove anything here... just get VERY irritated when people teach the wrong things.

 

did i say the horn won't work without a fuse? you understand what a fuse is for???

if confident means no need fuse than you trying to say the people at Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki and Kawasaki sucks big time? they fixed so many fuse into our bikes???

 

you diy you own horn alone without any help!!! you GOD leh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[kaozie]

yes it's the same, but if u notice what the author says, he's using the stock horn wires too, not exactly the same as in the diagram.

 

stock horn goes thru a bunch of other electrical stuff which we will not go into before it reach ur horn switch.

 

 

what i mean "circuit breaker" is pt 85 & 86 of the relay. it breaks the circuit of pt30 & 87 if there's no current. there's actually 2 circuits in a relay if u break them up. the only thing is that one circuit will activate the other.

 

first you say "totally diff", now you say "yes it's the same". so which is which??? you dun prata can???

 

what other electrical stuff it goes through before it goes to your horn?

 

so 85 & 86 is a circuit breaker? at what amp will it trip???

[kaozie]

Hi Mr Arthur Chan,

 

it seems like every thread you trying to help ends up in you advising the wrong things...

my advise to you is, if you dun know or not sure, try to stay humble and dun post anything...

nobody will blame you for not helping...

[Phang]

As an electrical and electronics engineer, I found this thread amusing. Please carry on

[mechwira]

in any case, i've already inferred the answers i was looking for when i first came in. thanks to everyone who shared including mr arthur chan.

 

i wanted to know why a relay was necessary with aftermarket horns when the stock horns didn need it. i now understand its because stock horn taps its electricity from the rectifier while aftermarket horns tap directly from batt. and essentially, the relay is to ensure the aftermarket horns are not operable with the ignition off.

 

i then wanted to know how the relay should be connected in a general sense because TS's story implies there are at least two different methods of connecting the relay, one of which may drain the battery. this is just from TS.

 

i now know in general how the relay is supposed to be connected. just that mr arthur chan nitpicks on my diagram based on what it implies in the actual physical setup such as 'the use of stock horn wires', which i've insisted before, my diagram is not trying to depict actual physical setup. if u still insist my diagram is not clear or wrong because of what it implies, not gonna argue except that my understanding based on my diagram corresponds exactly to what you have given, which i thank you for as well.

[spaiduhz]

Tapatalk hates imageshack.

 

Just have this to say.

 

Take it easy. We are all here to share knowledge, not to diss each other.

 

Peace.

[kaozie]

As an electrical and electronics engineer, I found this thread amusing. Please carry on

 

waa... engineer ah... i near-engine only... hahaha...

come draw a circuit diagram lei...

hehehe...

[spaiduhz]

Actually, isnt the relay there because the rails from the motorcycle wiring harness were not able to supply enough current to the aftermarket horns?

 

Horn connects to relay, relay connected to wiring harness and the battery, and voila. Isnt that the case? A relay just a switch of sorts, after all.

 

I am also interested in knowing whether the stock relay that comes with the horn is able to splice a single rail to two to provide juice to both horns.

[spaiduhz]

Regarding the unnatural battery drain, i think its due to an incorrectly installed wiring.

 

I am not too good with this, but if i were you, i would check that all wires are installed in the proper places on the relay, and that any exposed wiring has been isolated, be it using electrical tape or heat shrink.

 

Good luck!

[kaozie]

Actually, isnt the relay there because the rails from the motorcycle wiring harness were not able to supply enough current to the aftermarket horns?

 

Horn connects to relay, relay connected to wiring harness and the battery, and voila. Isnt that the case? A relay just a switch of sorts, after all.

 

I am also interested in knowing whether the stock relay that comes with the horn is able to splice a single rail to two to provide juice to both horns.

 

in basic, yes. as it draws the current straight from the battery. but in theory, amount of current draw is determine in this case, the horn. higher the resistance, more current drawn. unless the stock fuse in your bike does not support the amp of your aftermarket horn, then its required to re-wire it by means of a relay.

 

yes the relay is capable to support 2 horns, in this case, a parallel circuit.

[kaozie]

Regarding the unnatural battery drain, i think its due to an incorrectly installed wiring.

 

I am not too good with this, but if i were you, i would check that all wires are installed in the proper places on the relay, and that any exposed wiring has been isolated, be it using electrical tape or heat shrink.

 

Good luck!

 

any thing installed? volt regulator? alarm?

 

remove any useless stuff and monitor from there.

[lawrence21]

in any case, i've already inferred the answers i was looking for when i first came in. thanks to everyone who shared including mr arthur chan.

 

i wanted to know why a relay was necessary with aftermarket horns when the stock horns didn need it. i now understand its because stock horn taps its electricity from the rectifier while aftermarket horns tap directly from batt. and essentially, the relay is to ensure the aftermarket horns are not operable with the ignition off.

 

i then wanted to know how the relay should be connected in a general sense because TS's story implies there are at least two different methods of connecting the relay, one of which may drain the battery. this is just from TS.

 

i now know in general how the relay is supposed to be connected. just that mr arthur chan nitpicks on my diagram based on what it implies in the actual physical setup such as 'the use of stock horn wires', which i've insisted before, my diagram is not trying to depict actual physical setup. if u still insist my diagram is not clear or wrong because of what it implies, not gonna argue except that my understanding based on my diagram corresponds exactly to what you have given, which i thank you for as well.

 

i managed to solve my battery problem and thought i should share my experience in case it would be useful to anybody facing anything similar.

 

in the end, it was a faulty rectifier that caused all my battery woes. i went to three different mechs (not naming them, but they all enjoy good reviews on this forum) with the same complain - a flat battery - and none of them detected the problem. i'm not saying the motortiams were no good (i'm still going to one of them for my servicing), it was just that my problem was quite tricky to diagnose.

 

a good battery like a yuasa dry cell lasted less than a year while a made-in-china battery lasted about a month. the faulty rectifier killed my batteries slowly and in time, all the batteries were not able to hold on to their charge. all three mechs detected this and assumed the problem was with the battery and thus changed the battery.

 

i had to live with a faulty rectifier (aka voltage regulator) which routinely blew my bulbs, fried my batteries and basically gave me a hard time with my electric-start only vespa.

 

i believe my aftermarket horn had little to do with it, whether it was connected directly to the battery or to the ignition system didn't matter (in terms of battery drain) because the horn will only draw power when activated (horn button pressed) tio boh??

 

so what were my symptoms of a faulty rectifier (on a vespa GT)?

- slow/weak cranking over time.

- frequent blown headlamp, brakelights.

- turn signals refuse to work when travelling at speed, but function normally when bike is stationery.

- revving the bike would cause the headlamp and dashboard lights to brighten, lights would dim when on idle.

- unusually hot battery after a long ride.

 

finally, mechwira i hope you managed to solve your battery problem.

 

peace.

[mechwira]

finally, mechwira i hope you managed to solve your battery problem.

 

peace.

 

coincidentally, my problem was same as yours. faulty rectifier.

 

of coz, it all does sound very fishy that the rectifier blew immediately after the installation. and i mean like one day later, the symptoms appeared. but my rectifier was a two year old second hand item, which means it was about time it gave out, plus after changing to a brand new piece, no problems with batt. so i'm giving it the benefit of the doubt and assume the timing is just one big coincidence.

 

same shop that installed my horns found the problem after leaving my bike there overnight, didn have to get diagnosed by different shops.

[mechwira]

so what were my symptoms of a faulty rectifier (on a vespa GT)?

- slow/weak cranking over time.

- frequent blown headlamp, brakelights.

- turn signals refuse to work when travelling at speed, but function normally when bike is stationery.

- revving the bike would cause the headlamp and dashboard lights to brighten, lights would dim when on idle.

- unusually hot battery after a long ride.

 

 

by the way, the first time my rectifier blew, i did experience all of the above as well, so its not unique to vespa. i must say tho that the first symptom of weak cranking when not accompanied by all the rest could be nothing more than worn out batt.

[lawrence21]

by the way, the first time my rectifier blew, i did experience all of the above as well, so its not unique to vespa. i must say tho that the first symptom of weak cranking when not accompanied by all the rest could be nothing more than worn out batt.

 

agreed on both points sir, thanks for confirming!

[Rahza]

whatever it is do remember..... DO NOT CONNECT THE HORN IN SERIES!!!! other wise all the work is wasted..... coz d horn wont be as loud.... did d stupid mistake myself... den had 2 redo the whole wiring....

[adesmond2]

coincidentally, my problem was same as yours. faulty rectifier.

 

of coz, it all does sound very fishy that the rectifier blew immediately after the installation. and i mean like one day later, the symptoms appeared. but my rectifier was a two year old second hand item, which means it was about time it gave out, plus after changing to a brand new piece, no problems with batt. so i'm giving it the benefit of the doubt and assume the timing is just one big coincidence.

 

same shop that installed my horns found the problem after leaving my bike there overnight, didn have to get diagnosed by different shops.

 

Hi bro.. I do agreed that symptoms tend to appeared after some major stuff done to your bike and more stuff breaking down..

I suppose that's Plane*'s theory.. don't do anything unless it's spoilt.

because everytime I do something major, or even minor.. some stuff starts to act weirdly.. or fuse suddenly blow and etc.. lolx..

 

*fuse is there to "just in case, you get the OPSS!" I'm sure you rather your fuse fused than your relay or any other items get fried up..

*w/o fuse still work but, touch wood, anything happen will be your device or the more expensive ($$$) got fry~~

 

unless you intend to change your bike next year den it's ok.. I own my bike for 3 years.. things i done in the past was abit wrong.. because black tape falling off, revealing the wire, lucky i have a "fuse" so I fuse it.. after searching for the expose part for 2 hours.. finally found it and wrap it with the correct method..

 

as for the horns, the method above is correct, that's what i did anyway, thus no comment on it..

 

Anyway, chill out guys.. share knowledge ma.. not to quarrel..

 

I'm just a small small person with 2 cents of knowledge.. dun flame me...