Safety officer

[Sex Kid]

hey bro,

 

yeah you're right. but wad to do, i already enrolled myself to those courses. haha. so i guess i'll just hv to complete those courses first ah,dat would be by mid october.

 

but i need ur advise on whether i shud try opt for those trainee wsho scheme, or should i just try to apply for jobs as ss/sc at safety consultants? since by then i wud hv already obtain some certs mah.

 

as u know, not easy to find jobs in safety for someone like me who has no experience at all. so trying my luck in sending job applications to safety consultants instead. at least a bit better chances.

 

if ur company is hiring anyone new, do tell me can bro? i'm willing to take up low pay. i just need an opportunity to work, dats all.

 

anw i'll pm bro welly see if his company hiring or not. anw thank u so much for ur advices so far. very much appreciated.

 

Hi to the Bros here, been reading this thread for quite sometimes and i can honestly say that i learn a lot about the sg safety industry here. Currently i have ACWSH , but no exp doin safety solely. Are there chances for me to join a comp as a safety personnel straight or is it better for me to try joining a safety consultant ? Seems kinda hard to get a response for this line after sendin quite a number of resume.

 

Any inputs from u seniors would be greatly appreciated.{/QUOTE]

It doesn't matter whether you join company direct or through consultant. Harder to join company direct, easier to join consultant which is also hard unless recommended.

 

My next company is direct not consultant so sorry, quite difficult. Bro Welly can help you out here as he also helped me out last year. He good bro.

 

But like I said, before you sign, make sure contract fair to you or else kenna bond for long time, wait you get demoralised.

 

Cheers

Sex Kid

[Sex Kid]

Dun worry bro, its ur call.... I intro doesn't mean u muz take...

 

But i belif tis fellow not bad lah... Else i aso wun intro mah...

 

No problemo bro, I see him tomorrow.

 

Cheers

Sex Kid

[Sex Kid]

Hi Bro,

 

I have not started taking the Nebosh Dip, still deciding to take Nebosh National Dip, International Dip or Environmental Dip or go for related Bsc/Msc. What I meant is I feel that for WSHO level, if interested in Nebosh, should at least go for Diploma level.

 

singapore have a company - KBA training centre can facilitate your nebosh needs, but more expensive than distance learning from RRC and Sheilds.

 

Ya I heard Dip around $9K leh. But sometime got class better then distance learning got I think human being a little lack discipline to self study lah. Somemore people like me, need lecturer explain then can understand and also like to ask many question because very slow to catch lah.

 

Cheers

Sex Kid

[bryan84_lim]

"You sound like little bit angry leh... Don't lah, I just asking only mah." you can hear? But not true. Just stating facts

 

"Of course if can convince that course is useful then maybe can consider lah." Not here to convince you.

 

"But must know more first right, $1,000 + is a lot of money to me leh." It is money, but I thought your pay was high?

 

 

"Can share share the lobang where and how to get the exemption or not?" Yes there are but how to list here??

 

"I must be the only mountain tortoise leh, which consultant ah? I thought bring in overseas expert to come out with program leh."

Didnt know you were one.

Now you know lah, so can share share the info or not?"

 

Thanks for clarifying that you are. Search on google also can find the answer, easy as abcd ....E...

 

"My class got 3 fail leh. I don't know other classes how many." Why? never come to class? attendance issues? copying the assignment? or what?

Also - can appeal right? so not out right failure.

 

"I hard to believe my company will reduce my pay lah. Serious. Unless I cok up lah." Good, then you should stay in your company lah, dont look else where., I have a feeling you are working for some consultant.

 

"Don't like dat say leh. Multi-task actually not too bad. But actually, not all place like dat lah. My place not like that mah. ECO is ECO. WSHO is WSHO."

But same person is it? or is it because client demand? Is it a project requirement? commercial set up? or are you working for a consultant and the consultant is supplying man so thats why need to supply people?

 

"Wow sorry this is a funny statement, no offense. Obviously even when a Malaysian (just next door) safety officer comes to singapore, he/she would not be recognised here. An indonesian same, and so on. The idea is to find a bigger playing field but I think you should stay and do whatever you are currently doing, no one is forcing or pushing you.

Actually I got see in newspaper got company project in Malaysia but advertise for Singapore (MOM registered) safety officer leh. About 3 weeks ago only. Actually I want to apply, but the company tell me they want put me in Singapore project. So no choice loh."

 

This is where they say you are just knocking your own head. Company come to singapore look for singapore certified people to work here only.

 

"So I think international company got office or project in Singapore, I think also got put some value in our WSHO lah. Maybe little bit, but still got some value lah."

Again since you say they want to work here, they have to comply here..

 

So are you trying to run your own consultancy or are your working for a consultant?

Or doing a little side line here and there?

 

mr/miss chan, you sound like one of your boss in the consultancy branch. Be cool, this is a forum, you reply like got "gun powder" in it. (No offence) Lol!!!

[shaiful72346]

Hi to the Bros here, been reading this thread for quite sometimes and i can honestly say that i learn a lot about the sg safety industry here. Currently i have ACWSH , but no exp doin safety solely. Are there chances for me to join a comp as a safety personnel straight or is it better for me to try joining a safety consultant ? Seems kinda hard to get a response for this line after sendin quite a number of resume.

 

Any inputs from u seniors would be greatly appreciated.{/QUOTE]

It doesn't matter whether you join company direct or through consultant. Harder to join company direct, easier to join consultant which is also hard unless recommended.

 

My next company is direct not consultant so sorry, quite difficult. Bro Welly can help you out here as he also helped me out last year. He good bro.

 

But like I said, before you sign, make sure contract fair to you or else kenna bond for long time, wait you get demoralised.

 

Cheers

Sex Kid

 

ok thanks again bro sex kid for your invaluable info. have pm-ed bro welly to enquire. now just waiting for his reply.

[joelynchan]

"mr/miss chan, you sound like one of your boss in the consultancy branch. Be cool, this is a forum, you reply like got "gun powder" in it. (No offence) Lol!!!"

 

sori hor brother, i know tis is a forum however seam like there are consultants here. i onli do training course. Yes, my commission is based on number of courses sold. If i dont hit my target, i dont have commission. So you think leh, i am not here to "recruit teams lah or recruit safety etc". Just do what I can, so that I too can feed myself/family.

 

I also see the salary you guys make but i dont interfere in your job.

 

So if i try to sell, you can ask question but why stop me from hitting my target? I got stress leh. You onli need to wake up and go to work. I need to bring sales in brother.

 

Gun powder? no lah- maybe just sound like it becos lazy to type properly

 

no offence hor but can i please earn my living?

[Knievel82]

Hi to the Bros here, been reading this thread for quite sometimes and i can honestly say that i learn a lot about the sg safety industry here. Currently i have ACWSH , but no exp doin safety solely. Are there chances for me to join a comp as a safety personnel straight or is it better for me to try joining a safety consultant ? Seems kinda hard to get a response for this line after sendin quite a number of resume.

 

Any inputs from u seniors would be greatly appreciated.{/QUOTE]

It doesn't matter whether you join company direct or through consultant. Harder to join company direct, easier to join consultant which is also hard unless recommended.

 

My next company is direct not consultant so sorry, quite difficult. Bro Welly can help you out here as he also helped me out last year. He good bro.

 

But like I said, before you sign, make sure contract fair to you or else kenna bond for long time, wait you get demoralised.

 

Cheers

Sex Kid

 

Hey Bro, understand ur situation. no worries. Actually im hoping to get into the industy ,am realistic enough not to demand too much as no exp as SS/SC. Yeah will make sure the contract is fair to me b4 i sign. As long its withing my expected salary and can OT a bit i happy liao.

[skazuz]

Hello Bro,

 

OKI. You friend already send me his CV. I will meet up with him next week to have a chat first. No promises as I want to be confident that the team is a solid and good team.

 

Cheers

Sex Kid

 

Bro, got job lobang? i dont mind low pay. need a stepping stone.

 

thanks

 

cheers

skazuz

[skazuz]

Hi guys,

 

 

Anyone got a Job opening, i have a couple of safety certs but no experience, the only experience i have is during my attachment in JI as a process tech.

 

i dont mind a low paying job as i need a exposure n experience. If you guys do have any pls let me know.

 

cheers

skazuz

[bryan84_lim]

"mr/miss chan, you sound like one of your boss in the consultancy branch. Be cool, this is a forum, you reply like got "gun powder" in it. (No offence) Lol!!!"

 

sori hor brother, i know tis is a forum however seam like there are consultants here. i onli do training course. Yes, my commission is based on number of courses sold. If i dont hit my target, i dont have commission. So you think leh, i am not here to "recruit teams lah or recruit safety etc". Just do what I can, so that I too can feed myself/family.

 

I also see the salary you guys make but i dont interfere in your job.

 

So if i try to sell, you can ask question but why stop me from hitting my target? I got stress leh. You onli need to wake up and go to work. I need to bring sales in brother.

 

Gun powder? no lah- maybe just sound like it becos lazy to type properly

 

no offence hor but can i please earn my living?

 

 

Lol! why u say till like we(or I in this case) is breaking your rice bowl. no one is stopping you from achieving your target. All i say is "you sound like one of your boss in the consultancy branch." because i happen to "know" one of the boss in safety@work. So just be cool and enjoy the forum. =)

[WarForGe]

My apologies first, if what I'm going to say is going to offend anyone.

 

First of all, this is a public forum. If anybody wants to do sales here, please check with the moderators for approval.

 

Secondly, sorry again if this is going to sound like a personal attack, but if you are going to survive in sales line, do a self check on your attitude. No-no to lazy typing. No-no to flaring up. No-no to choosing the wrong words. Targets? Commission? To be frank, you are selling something that is not the everyday product. If you decide to use this forum as a sales channel, please project yourself as a sales person. If not, your potential customers will not choose to give you the sales, even if they want to take up the course. Competitors are just a Google+phone call away.

 

Coming from a person that have been in service industry and sales line for years before joining becoming a Safety professional.

 

It's the same thing in every industry, every profession. You need to have the right attitude for that industry in order to survive.

 

 

I do agree with what some of the fellow forumers are saying. The course fees are too high for some interested stakeholders. In fact, most people are just trying to fulfill the local requirements before attempting being "Internationally recognized". And to be "Internationally recognized", there are a few routes, from diploma programmes to masters degrees. But locally, Specialist Diploma in WSH is one of the better known, cheaper (hooray SPURS funding!) source of qualification for employment.

 

Tough? Yes it is. Relevance to local Safety industry in terms of applicable legal requirements? 100%. Can you say the same for NEOSH? NEOSH got SDU points? I don't think so. There are so many other certifications that one would NEED to acquire before it's NEOSH turn in the queue.

 

I'm not saying NEOSH is no good. Any kind of knowledge is good. But there are limitations such as time, money and availability (from work, family, social, etc). Get to know some pros and cons about your product will help you sell it. Don't just focus on the pros.

 

You have seen some of our industry's salary scale. Some are market rates. Some are crazy rates. Many, like myself, cannot even afford to splurge on a cup of Starbucks once a month.

 

Just my 2 cents. (can still afford 2 cents)

pai sey huh.. long long post again..

[Guest aircraft]

My apologies first, if what I'm going to say is going to offend anyone.

 

First of all, this is a public forum. If anybody wants to do sales here, please check with the moderators for approval.

 

Secondly, sorry again if this is going to sound like a personal attack, but if you are going to survive in sales line, do a self check on your attitude. No-no to lazy typing. No-no to flaring up. No-no to choosing the wrong words. Targets? Commission? To be frank, you are selling something that is not the everyday product. If you decide to use this forum as a sales channel, please project yourself as a sales person. If not, your potential customers will not choose to give you the sales, even if they want to take up the course. Competitors are just a Google+phone call away.

 

Coming from a person that have been in service industry and sales line for years before joining becoming a Safety professional.

 

It's the same thing in every industry, every profession. You need to have the right attitude for that industry in order to survive.

 

 

I do agree with what some of the fellow forumers are saying. The course fees are too high for some interested stakeholders. In fact, most people are just trying to fulfill the local requirements before attempting being "Internationally recognized". And to be "Internationally recognized", there are a few routes, from diploma programmes to masters degrees. But locally, Specialist Diploma in WSH is one of the better known, cheaper (hooray SPURS funding!) source of qualification for employment.

 

Tough? Yes it is. Relevance to local Safety industry in terms of applicable legal requirements? 100%. Can you say the same for NEOSH? NEOSH got SDU points? I don't think so. There are so many other certifications that one would NEED to acquire before it's NEOSH turn in the queue.

 

I'm not saying NEOSH is no good. Any kind of knowledge is good. But there are limitations such as time, money and availability (from work, family, social, etc). Get to know some pros and cons about your product will help you sell it. Don't just focus on the pros.

 

You have seen some of our industry's salary scale. Some are market rates. Some are crazy rates. Many, like myself, cannot even afford to splurge on a cup of Starbucks once a month.

 

Just my 2 cents. (can still afford 2 cents)

pai sey huh.. long long post again..

 

 

Well written bro.

[joelynchan]

"My apologies first, if what I'm going to say is going to offend anyone."- Thank you.

 

"First of all, this is a public forum."- Yes I got this, I hope that others get this too. Public Forum.

 

"Secondly, sorry again if this is going to sound like a personal attack, but if you are going to survive in sales line, do a self check on your attitude." None taken

 

"I do agree with what some of the fellow forumers are saying. The course fees are too high for some interested stakeholders. In fact, most people are just trying to fulfillthe "local requirements before attempting being "Internationally recognized". "

 

I totally agree that you need local qualifications. I dont think it would be right for people to go for nebosh then local qualifications. My statement (initially) was that if interested this is the fee, the structure and stuff. Then came ....

 

I dont mind if people say its expensive or too long etc but can "eat" ?

 

Agreed when I first joined, it was set at $2300, I told my boss that we can cater to the industry by getting the price down.

 

"Get to know some pros and cons about your product will help you sell it. Don't just focus on the pros." My initial post did not indicate pro or con, just what it was.

 

See ya

[joelynchan]

"no one is stopping you from achieving your target. All i say is "you sound like one of your boss in the consultancy branch." because i happen to "know" one of the boss in safety@work."

 

Few years ago i was in training and i know how consultants work/recruit. They like to collect resumes- nothing wrong. In fact when I worked for employment agency in Jurong East, they have many many resumes- again nothing wrong. So when I see people collect resumes I feel......

 

In fact it was the boss from safety@work who got me this job. I knew him when he dealt with my ex-com few years back but now every different person. But he doesnt want to do anything with safety or work with people in singapore anymore. And I over the last few weeks i learnt why.

 

Very strange- he paid the internet service provider to stop facebook being accessed from the office! He says he hates internet.

 

See ya

[cstay66]

dear joelynchan,

 

think it's time you change line.

[WarForGe]

You give me a feeling that you are having alot of hatred/grief towards your job bottled up. The same kind of negative feeling I have towards my company/boss (separate matter anyway).

 

There is a few contributing factor towards this "forum saga".

 

1. Your target audience is a group of professionals who deals with people who, at times, can be quite boorish. There is a certain way we talk at work, such as when talking to the average ah nehs = "you no ali baba talking many many..", talking to contractors = "knn lah.. everytime ask you nicely cannot 1.. must f**k you then can get your cb moving issit?", etc.

 

Some of the comments from the forumers may be perceive as crude remarks but they are actually harmless. Let me give you an example of one of my lecturer for an ESS module. She is used to giving lecturers to MDs, CEOs, managers, bankers, etc. When she come to us, she expects us to speak her Queen's English, behave in the MDs' manner. She have no idea of our industry and what we do, so she keeps giving examples based on air conditioned beautifully decorated office, expensive ergonomics chairs, suits and ties, etc. When we try to explain to her all these does not seems to be applicable to us, she deny and says that we don't know our job. We learn nothing on day 1.

 

Day 2, without anyone's request, another lecturer came and told us she is on MC, with a cheeky look on his face. We learn what we should and shared experiences with the lecturer. Objective accomplished.

 

 

2. As a sales/service professional, be prepared for the harshest words and unbelievable attitudes thrown at you. Be prepared to maintain your professional image regardless what happens. I'm not trying to teach you how to do your job, which I'm not qualified to, but trying to brace you on what the industry expects. Before you flare up, walk away. Before angry thoughts cloud your mind, take a deep breath. See anything you dislike, ignore.

 

I've seen a customer service staff at N*U*Learn***H** serving ah neh.. "Thank you Sir". "Have a nice day." somemore. Professional? Very.

 

 

Don't let your boss' mindset affect your's no matter how logical it sounds. Judge the situation yourself. If you really thinks negatively about this whole saga, maybe it's time to move on.

[WarForGe]

oh.. additional..

 

Once, my site had alot of fluorescent lamps broken. I told my jap boss about the root cause of the issue. The mobile scaffold, which is erected to almost the height of the beams, are accidentally knocking into the lamps. I suggested to him, why not drill a hook on the condeck (ceiling) to hang the lamps, since some of the lamps are also damaged by the spraying of vermiculite (a fire retardant) on the beams.

 

His reply is simple. He just stare at me and "You do ah?!"

 

 

Another time, I suggested to purchase a height rescue kit. Not going into details of the kit here, but I briefed him till every technical aspect of it. It cost $2500. He asked me.. "height rescue kit? can eat anot?" (sounds familiar?)

 

I simply reply, "cannot eat but can save lives".

 

 

End of the day, the height rescue kit till now not purchased. He is only interested in budget, money, work progress. Wait till somebody fall, die of suspension trauma, if needed then buy. Or if garmen say must buy, then buy.

 

 

What I'm trying to say is.. don't take words too hard. Wait blood vessels burst.. pain also pain yourself.

[joelynchan]

"dear joelynchan,

 

think it's time you change line. "

 

I shall use WarFoGe advice-

"Thank you Have a nice day."

 

See Ya!

[Sex Kid]

 

ok thanks again bro sex kid for your invaluable info. have pm-ed bro welly to enquire. now just waiting for his reply.

 

Noted Bro. At the same time, try all the other consulatancy services too like SPOT, etc.

 

Don't jump into it and don't let anyone "pressure" you into signing dotted line. During interview, not they interview you only, you also interview them.

 

Cheers

Sex Kid

[Sex Kid]

"mr/miss chan, you sound like one of your boss in the consultancy branch. Be cool, this is a forum, you reply like got "gun powder" in it. (No offence) Lol!!!"

 

sori hor brother, i know tis is a forum however seam like there are consultants here. i onli do training course. Yes, my commission is based on number of courses sold. If i dont hit my target, i dont have commission. So you think leh, i am not here to "recruit teams lah or recruit safety etc". Just do what I can, so that I too can feed myself/family.

 

I also see the salary you guys make but i dont interfere in your job.

 

So if i try to sell, you can ask question but why stop me from hitting my target? I got stress leh. You onli need to wake up and go to work. I need to bring sales in brother.

 

Gun powder? no lah- maybe just sound like it becos lazy to type properly

 

no offence hor but can i please earn my living?

 

Alamak sis,

 

I think you should approach WSHC, and present your case for your course lah. Maybe make it equivilant to the Cert in WSH or Advance Cert in WSH. Like that if WSHC accept it as equivilant, then the NEBOSH cert become got value mah.

 

Of course sure difficult. If you speak to your boss, sure your boss will say difficult also, or he have tried before and cannot pass, or whatever. But if you feel strongly that the NEBOSH cert is that powderful, you must not give up lah. Get all information, proof, evidence, etc. Make your case strong, and keep going. Don't give up. Of course if approved, other company got provide NEBOSH will also benefit, but so what?

 

Like that your credentials go up, people will know, and they will send people to take course from you loh..

 

Remeber, the safety degree from Newcastle U last time also cannot be use for register for safety officer, but now can liow hor.

 

Cheers

Sex Kid

[Sex Kid]

 

Hey Bro, understand ur situation. no worries. Actually im hoping to get into the industy ,am realistic enough not to demand too much as no exp as SS/SC. Yeah will make sure the contract is fair to me b4 i sign. As long its withing my expected salary and can OT a bit i happy liao.

 

Hi Bro,

 

always ask yourself this?

 

Will this contract be fair to you down the road maybe one year later?(assuming the contract 2 to 4 years)

 

Cos I see people starting sign contract be'cos the think fair lah. Like you say, within expected salary and can OT cos basically when starting they got no or not much experience.

 

After along the way, they upgrade, take up other courses themselves like lifting, confined space, scaffolding, whatever. Then they other safety personnel performance not as good especially those old bird too long in the position.

 

Then they start to feel "short-change" and demoralise b'cos got bond cannot leave or else kenna pay 6 months of 1 year salary in lieu.

 

So whatever you do, you must be careful. Personally, if the company only provide you job, then don't sign any bond.

 

Also, if company tell you they can help you get safety officer so must kenna bond, DON'T believe. To go for SDWSH course, you need your own credentials, not your company. to pass the SDWSH course is your own effect, no company can tell Ngee ann, SP or BCA to pass you. To get register from MOM, also your own credential. No company can tell or write to MOM say must give you register.

 

Cheers

Sex Kid

[Sex Kid]

Bro, got job lobang? i dont mind low pay. need a stepping stone.

 

thanks

 

cheers

skazuz

 

Bro, like that join civil engineering project. got many hardcore you can also step.

 

joking lah.

 

But I sorry lah. My project need experience and knowledgeable people. Unless you can prove to me that you like me. today get cert, tomorrow start work in project and learn super fast (not boasting hor).

 

Maybe should arrange "coffee session" with you guys and can talk about it? Hmmm....

 

Sex Kid

[goondoo]

Bro, like that join civil engineering project. got many hardcore you can also step.

 

joking lah.

 

But I sorry lah. My project need experience and knowledgeable people. Unless you can prove to me that you like me. today get cert, tomorrow start work in project and learn super fast (not boasting hor).

 

Maybe should arrange "coffee session" with you guys and can talk about it? Hmmm....

 

Sex Kid

 

I nearly took it literally as "you like me" :dot::cheeky:

[cstay66]

You give me a feeling that you are having alot of hatred/grief towards your job bottled up. The same kind of negative feeling I have towards my company/boss (separate matter anyway).

 

There is a few contributing factor towards this "forum saga".

 

1. Your target audience is a group of professionals who deals with people who, at times, can be quite boorish. There is a certain way we talk at work, such as when talking to the average ah nehs = "you no ali baba talking many many..", talking to contractors = "knn lah.. everytime ask you nicely cannot 1.. must f**k you then can get your cb moving issit?", etc.

 

Some of the comments from the forumers may be perceive as crude remarks but they are actually harmless. Let me give you an example of one of my lecturer for an ESS module. She is used to giving lecturers to MDs, CEOs, managers, bankers, etc. When she come to us, she expects us to speak her Queen's English, behave in the MDs' manner. She have no idea of our industry and what we do, so she keeps giving examples based on air conditioned beautifully decorated office, expensive ergonomics chairs, suits and ties, etc. When we try to explain to her all these does not seems to be applicable to us, she deny and says that we don't know our job. We learn nothing on day 1.

 

Day 2, without anyone's request, another lecturer came and told us she is on MC, with a cheeky look on his face. We learn what we should and shared experiences with the lecturer. Objective accomplished.

 

 

2. As a sales/service professional, be prepared for the harshest words and unbelievable attitudes thrown at you. Be prepared to maintain your professional image regardless what happens. I'm not trying to teach you how to do your job, which I'm not qualified to, but trying to brace you on what the industry expects. Before you flare up, walk away. Before angry thoughts cloud your mind, take a deep breath. See anything you dislike, ignore.

 

I've seen a customer service staff at N*U*Learn***H** serving ah neh.. "Thank you Sir". "Have a nice day." somemore. Professional? Very.

 

 

Don't let your boss' mindset affect your's no matter how logical it sounds. Judge the situation yourself. If you really thinks negatively about this whole saga, maybe it's time to move on.

 

:thumb:

i wan to say like you say loh. but too lazy to write so just give one line summary. you can say and write better lah.

[cstay66]

 

Hi Bro,

 

always ask yourself this?

 

Will this contract be fair to you down the road maybe one year later?(assuming the contract 2 to 4 years)

 

Cos I see people starting sign contract be'cos the think fair lah. Like you say, within expected salary and can OT cos basically when starting they got no or not much experience.

 

After along the way, they upgrade, take up other courses themselves like lifting, confined space, scaffolding, whatever. Then they other safety personnel performance not as good especially those old bird too long in the position.

 

Then they start to feel "short-change" and demoralise b'cos got bond cannot leave or else kenna pay 6 months of 1 year salary in lieu.

 

So whatever you do, you must be careful. Personally, if the company only provide you job, then don't sign any bond.

 

Also, if company tell you they can help you get safety officer so must kenna bond, DON'T believe. To go for SDWSH course, you need your own credentials, not your company. to pass the SDWSH course is your own effect, no company can tell Ngee ann, SP or BCA to pass you. To get register from MOM, also your own credential. No company can tell or write to MOM say must give you register.

 

Cheers

Sex Kid

 

 

good advice. dont anyhow sign.