Honda New 400cc lineup 2013, CB400F, CB400X, CBR400R

[kawarides]

anybody who wants to do a 'real' tour up north or further on a cub-chai, i frankly have nothing to say. its your bike, your joy, so if you find such a thing fun, more power to you.

 

i would never tour on a low-powered bike for the following reasons (but this is only me):

 

1) i will fall asleep cruising 100kmh on NSH.

2) even if the bike can hit above 120kmh but its small and light, its dangerous and will be unstable.

3) even if can go above 100kmh, the trucks on NSH are going at 120kmh, i would rather be on a bike with good power to spare beyond 120kmh to avoid these trucks. a small bike can hit 120kmh, but typically not much power left by then.

4) most friends and guys i know who actually tour, go on high powered bikes and cruise at high speed, for precisely the reasons i mentioned above. if you cant keep up, you cant join them.

 

no doubt a CB400X is no cub, but when i say i'm not confident with its ability to tour, i mean i'm not confident the CB400X effectively tackles the four issues above. but if you just want to tour on anything as long it runs on petrol and no need to pedal.....

 

 

as for the fact that few people actually bring their adventure bike off-road, point very well taken. i totally agree. just like not every guy on a sportsbike has seen a track, also not every dude on a bmw or ktm adventurer or africa twin has gotten real mud on his bike. but some do. and the rest just like the idea that theoretically they can if they want to. but i think the CB400X can't.

 

 

but like i said earlier, don't take away the 400X for what it can't. what it can, is commute well and in style.

 

That's very true...

[zzky]

Think Honda is taking a lot of focus to lauch the 400 parallel twin to capture the market share. Looking at the response here very soon will have gathering and perhaps touring activity. Short tour (a few hours to Msia, not for chiong at 200kmh) should be perfect using this machine and the power is just nice for daily run especially in Singapore.

 

Soon Suzuki/Yamaha will follow, Kawa already has similar engine on ninja 400 just need to cater the touring model (tune up the power a bit to be competitive to 400X). Then the 400 cc fever in the 90's will repeat just that the in-line 4 (in 90's) was more on power game and current parallel twin 400 is more on fun touring (not for speed, tp should be happy if this is the trend).

 

I think this bike group (p.twin 400cc) in Singapore will definitely grow, many 250s will upgrade to this since it is same 2a (if financially ok). Enthusiast on power game will still be there and looking at >600cc IL4.

 

I think currently only PI, Boon Siew may/may not take in this due to consideration of cbr250r market proposition. In other countries 400r is a fear competition to ninja300 (in price) and attracting upgrader of the 250's. Hope AD will take in then price will be even more competitive.

[ORen]

Miss. I gave the link....download the PDF......

The recommended fuel is ron91 for 500x on pg36

 

Thank you I missed it the first time I browsed the manual !

[thechosenx]

Will the 400X's manual be in Jap or English? o.O

 

If is parallel import most probably is in jap?

 

Anyway another interesting review on the 500x (Turn on the English caps)

 

Edited August 15, 2013 by thechosenx

[jyew777]

That's very true...

 

My views : An adventure is what you get out of it, regardless of what bike you ride. If you need 100BHP to have an adventure so be it, but look at the forums such as advrider.com or rideasia.net and you will find people riding anything from C70 cubs to 250 cc bikes having the kind of adventures that most of us here can only dream of, even with a 1200GS. If your definition of an adventure is cruising highways, which is perfectly fine, then you will probably need something bigger than the 400 X.

 

But if you riding jungle trails and doing a lot of offroad, you probably do not want anything bigger than 400 cc or more than 200kg. I was talking to some folks who regularly explore small roads and single tracks in northern Thailand and they do not recommend anything bigger than 250cc.

Having said that, I have decided to get a 400X next year, unless something else comes on the market by then. My decision is driven mainly because I only have a 2A license and everything else is just not comfortable enough for my body size. To me it is more of a standard bike with adventure styling. However, the 40+ HP will not stop me from going on my own adventure ride to Chiang Mai and beyond because my idea of an adventure is not cruising highways but exploring back roads and small towns, meeting people and experiencing cultures. I do wish I had about 20-30 more HP for the times when I have no choice but ride the highways but I’ll make do with what I have and learn to ride within the limits of the bike and I am certain I will enjoy any adventure ride I will plan on the 400X. I would even consider the CRF 250L if they bring it here.

If I did have a class 2, the 400 or 500X would not even be on my shortlist.

[zzky]

@jyew777, my situation is very similar to yours, plan is end of next year. Use it as weekend adventure.

[Baal]

@Baal, could you please explain the relationship between the fuel grade (RON) and the engine capacity or compression ratio? Sorry for the silly question, I could Google it but I find it better to ask other riders

 

I never really stopped to consider this question, I would just follow the manual.. Which btw I haven't found yet online, so if anyone does, even the 500X that would be great!

 

I believe mech already elaborated quite a fair bit. When comp is high, it increases the likelihood pre ignition which results in engine knocking/damage. Yes, manuals always state the minimum......but I believe that's because they take into account the timing/ignition retard system (safety net) into account. Without it, something like super 4 with 11.3 to1 made need more than 92 or even 95. Now imagine running a 10 yrs S4 whereby the :retard" system is no longer working/spoilt & the owner uses 92. See ur luck I guess.

 

I agree that with 98 feels smoother which somewhat feels more powerful. But again, many articles I read claims that high ron fuel does not contain more energy. Hence I infer that it feels smoother / more powerful because, the " retard " system does not need to kick in to prevent pre-ignition. With less/no interference = smoother / shioker experience.

 

An example is what I read of a question regarding the car Golf GTI (2 litre Turbo). The guy ask the magazine......will running regular (92) damage the engine. Magazine replied, it will not as there is the "retard" system to save it. However, you will noticeably compromise the driving performance...

 

I also apply the online games theory for myself. The game says req min 2mb interne speed, u will likely lag & lag & lag & jerk & jerk. In reality, u need 5mb connection speed to get smooth online experience.

 

hence base on above & my own feel of the vehicle, my own rule is

[danielb]

so how? was my decision to buy a good one after all? for class 2A semi adventure touring?

[danielb]

JAPANESE.

can't find any engrish manual yet.

once i find i share with u

 

Will the 400X's manual be in Jap or English? o.O

 

If is parallel import most probably is in jap?

 

Anyway another interesting review on the 500x (Turn on the English caps)

 

[rock n roll]

I think the manual book is the same as cb500x

[PenangKia]

If I did have a class 2, the 400 or 500X would not even be on my shortlist.

 

Yup - totally agree. Then it would be a whole different discussion (can't wait!). My current ride which is a Duke 200 is too puny for me. Now to sign up for my 2A next month :-)

[mechwira]

I agree that with 98 feels smoother which somewhat feels more powerful. But again, many articles I read claims that high ron fuel does not contain more energy. Hence I infer that it feels smoother / more powerful because, the " retard " system does not need to kick in to prevent pre-ignition. With less/no interference = smoother / shioker experience.

 

absolutely true. if your vehicle runs RON92 without auto-ignition engine knocking, you gain nothing by using higher like 95 or 98. in fact the petrol burns faster.

 

but the petrol companies are smart. compared to their 92, they put some additives in their 95. then they put even more additives in their 98.

 

end result, its not 'imaginary' when bikers or drivers claim their vehicles run 'better' with higher RON. but the petrol companies could have used their same 98 additives, or even like v-power additives, into their 92 grade fuel and you'd feel just as much power/smooth yet better mileage.

 

but why wont they do such a thing? because they want you to pay for the higher grade RON and burn the fuel faster so buy more.

[mechwira]

i suppose i have to admit that i'm overly critical of the 400's ability coz i have class2. i still think they make great local commuters and look stylish, and would be a great buy for anyone capped at 2a or downgraders; i just not so sure how much more they can offer.

 

but to each his own, its your money and your joy, thats all that matters.

[danielb]

one can never find that perfect bike

[thechosenx]

danielb when are you getting your 400x?

[Baal]

absolutely true. if your vehicle runs RON92 without auto-ignition engine knocking, you gain nothing by using higher like 95 or 98. in fact the petrol burns faster.

 

but the petrol companies are smart. compared to their 92, they put some additives in their 95. then they put even more additives in their 98.

 

end result, its not 'imaginary' when bikers or drivers claim their vehicles run 'better' with higher RON. but the petrol companies could have used their same 98 additives, or even like v-power additives, into their 92 grade fuel and you'd feel just as much power/smooth yet better mileage.

 

but why wont they do such a thing? because they want you to pay for the higher grade RON and burn the fuel faster so buy more.

 

That was what I suspected about the part on additives that you mentioned. Esp when manual says min 91, I use 95, how come feels shioker on 98 ?!!! As usual shrewd corporations at work. Indeed on my current getz 1.4, I attest that from 92, 95, 98, ......my fuel economy gets worse & worse.

 

On my prev Ver S, I get poorer economy when I "upgrade" from 98 to V Power. Tho the latter feels shioker.

[SC Gaban]

regarding the ER4F aka ninja 400, theres only 1 unit left at MAH. i went there to cekidot myself few months ago. otr price will be around +- 17k

[kifakw]

What's a bike's ability for touring and adventure? The idea that one can only tour on a GS or Tenere or a bike marketed for such use is getting a bit old don't you think ?

People have toured on all sorts of 2 wheelers and then some.

 

To me, unless we are talking about 1 to 2 years touring, real stuff across continents, any bike will do. And there's absolutely no need for an "adventure" bike.

 

That is even more true here where people talk often about touring but you can still count on your fingers the number of bikers who went to China, or Nepal or even across more than 3 countries. In Singapore most of the time touring means going somewhere in Malaysia or push it to Thailand, maybe go have fun in the Golden Triangle. That's a few days ride up and down, no need to bring out the big boys, a Wave can do it and bring a gigantic smile on the rider's face.

 

I say your bike can be an adventure bike if you let it. It's all about the rider

 

Although I caught the touring virus, I am attracted to the looks of the bike more than the fact that its supposed to be for touring. Out of all the series models, the X looks the best to me. It's sexy, kinda fierce but stylish, love that beak and the compactness of the front. Also, it has a bigger tank and is slightly higher than its street counterpart so that's an added benefice for me.

 

very well said, thumbs up for you! :thumb:

[Baal]

regarding the ER4F aka ninja 400, theres only 1 unit left at MAH. i went there to cekidot myself few months ago. otr price will be around +- 17k

 

I have never ridden a kawa bike, though by the looks / "image" of the bike, many appeal to me.

 

The only kawa I will consider is KR150 or/and if there are any other Kawa models that have parts & services widely available from parallel sources.

[danielb]

danielb when are you getting your 400x?

 

once i clear class 2A TP..mid october bah huh?

[danielb]

That was what I suspected about the part on additives that you mentioned. Esp when manual says min 91, I use 95, how come feels shioker on 98 ?!!! As usual shrewd corporations at work. Indeed on my current getz 1.4, I attest that from 92, 95, 98, ......my fuel economy gets worse & worse.

 

On my prev Ver S, I get poorer economy when I "upgrade" from 98 to V Power. Tho the latter feels shioker.

 

more power need more fuel lei..... the equation can't wont change la...how to have less fuel more power?

[jyew777]

i suppose i have to admit that i'm overly critical of the 400's ability coz i have class2. i still think they make great local commuters and look stylish, and would be a great buy for anyone capped at 2a or downgraders; i just not so sure how much more they can offer.

 

but to each his own, its your money and your joy, thats all that matters.

 

Well it is a forum where we are supposed to exchange views and yours is as good as any. It would be very boring if we all had the same views, don't you think?

My point was we all have different needs and wants. Some of us need to cruise at 150 kph and others like to take their time. No right or wrong here.

By the way, I was just told there are 2 guys setting off from Singapore to China on two 135cc bikes. Now that as good as an adventure as any. Anybody knows about this? I would love to follow their progress somehow.

[jyew777]

one can never find that perfect bike

that's because it does not exist

[Baal]

more power need more fuel lei..... the equation can't wont change la...how to have less fuel more power?

 

i do agree to some on that.

 

But what i don't like is that they could have put in the same additives for 95 ron. Though burn faster with better performance, but at least i'm paying 2.18 rather than 2.40. Its like a conspiracy to make people go for 98.

 

But again all these big coys sing the same song......so i guess consumers suck thumb as per usual. sigh

[kinwei]

The CB400X only have a compression ratio of 11:1. It is quite low. I believe 92 is more than enough. If not, go 95 is way good enough. No need 98 or Vpower. I have been riding sport bikes with high compression of 12.3:1 and I only pump 95 all the way. The only time I pump 92 is for my DRZ with compression level of 11.3:1 and no knocking detected.

 

Only vehicle with knock sensor will auto retard the timing upon sensing knocking. It is more commonly found in cars. Not common for bike. So far I only know CBR1000RR have it. Not sure if others have it or not.