City Harvest Church

[redname]

Originally posted by Dunamis@Jun 27 2005, 09:40 PM

No, it was quite obvious what Sheep meant in the post on Jun 27 2005, 02:15 PM was that my pt raised was off topic because there is no need to create a new topic in the chat section, since there is already a thread on religion at sammyboy.

 

You replied on Jun 27 2005, 02:36 PM that I had wanted to read abt the discussion in this forum, which means you knew Sheep's meaning.

 

But you turned around now and say Sheep had meant another thing.

haha, there's such a thing as diff time zone, its due to our config & also the server host config, relax lah

[redname]

Originally posted by hailang_82@Jun 28 2005, 02:22 AM

Since their belief is based on the old testament, just that they interpret differently?

i really not sure wat the muslims interpret as leh

[Guest Dunamis]

Originally posted by redname@Jun 28 2005, 10:06 AM

haha, there's such a thing as diff time zone, its due to our config & also the server host config, relax lah

Well but you did refer to sheep's post, which meant his post came before yours. Anyway I have offended quite a few fellas here, but that's expected. From the debate I see there are a few who are very defensive but calling others defensive, at the same time labelling others as wanting to be right all the time, but are themselves what they have accused others of.

 

I had merely pointed out it would be better to relocate the debate, and that my point is not off topic.

 

You can't talk any sense with people who do not have honesty and integrity. So watch yourself, and all the best, redname.

[sheep]

Originally posted by hailang_82@Jun 28 2005, 02:46 AM

Maybe what u said is correct... but u got to know that bible itself is re-written alot of times for the past 2 thousand yrs... Things are being added in and things are deleted to suit the political situations at that time.. For example... the Roman Catholic Church during the Roman Empire... Some parts of the bible was being changed...

 

I can confidently said that The bible whoever is using now is not the fully translated one. It is been edited numerously for the past 2k years. The first english version was translated in the 1500s.. And it is not translated from the original bible... meaning.. in Hebrew and at least 5 other languages... It was translated from the bible that was used by the Roman Catholic Church at that pt of time... if I am not wrong lahz....

 

One thing my uncle mentioned is that Bible itself is split into alot of books. 66 books? Written by 40 authors? At different times but yet they seem to be in consecutive orders..

 

Another thing my friend mentioned is... Jesus teach his followers by writing in sands.. and it was followers who documented it in a book... which is the bible... Both of them seems contradictory..

 

Abt scientific evidence.... Human was found to have a history of more than 15,000 yrs thru carbon dating.. From the bible, The world was supposed to be created 6,000 yrs ago and the flooding of Eden garden or something is 4,500 yrs ago.

 

Trying to be ferni now... Dinosaurs are not mentioned in bible.. haha. No offence...

One more thing,

Religion mixed with politics is never a good thing.

[redname]

Originally posted by hailang_82@Jun 28 2005, 02:46 AM

Maybe what u said is correct... but u got to know that bible itself is re-written alot of times for the past 2 thousand yrs... Things are being added in and things are deleted to suit the political situations at that time.. For example... the Roman Catholic Church during the Roman Empire... Some parts of the bible was being changed...

 

I can confidently said that The bible whoever is using now is not the fully translated one. It is been edited numerously for the past 2k years. The first english version was translated in the 1500s.. And it is not translated from the original bible... meaning.. in Hebrew and at least 5 other languages... It was translated from the bible that was used by the Roman Catholic Church at that pt of time... if I am not wrong lahz....

 

One thing my uncle mentioned is that Bible itself is split into alot of books. 66 books? Written by 40 authors? At different times but yet they seem to be in consecutive orders..

 

Another thing my friend mentioned is... Jesus teach his followers by writing in sands.. and it was followers who documented it in a book... which is the bible... Both of them seems contradictory..

 

Abt scientific evidence.... Human was found to have a history of more than 15,000 yrs thru carbon dating.. From the bible, The world was supposed to be created 6,000 yrs ago and the flooding of Eden garden or something is 4,500 yrs ago.

 

Trying to be ferni now... Dinosaurs are not mentioned in bible.. haha. No offence...

wah, such a long msg, haha, looks like i'm gng to need a long time to answer tis, long msg coming from me too

 

b4 i start, i wld like to clarify tht wat i'm gng to write is from a christian pt of view & also some of my personal view, so i won't really expect u to listen or believe cause u got ur style & the Bible did say tht not everyone will hear & believe.

 

1stly, the Bible didn't get re-written, it got translated. i hope u do know there's a diff. it was translated for obvious reasons as not everyone knows the original language & thus translated as the Gospel is meant to spread to everyone having different languages. It is true tht some stuff r added but not deleted, the reason is because of different believes between the catholic & protestant & not like wat u said of political reasons.

 

2ndly, i wanna ask u is on wat basis r u standing on when u say u confidently say the bible used isn't the fully translated one? did u actually got hold of the original & compared to those now? i u did, pls pass me a copy of the original

 

3rdly, wat ur uncle said is true but only half way only. The Bible clearly states tht all scriptures written by those authors were inspired by the Holy Spirit, which means there's only one source where it came from.

 

4th, ur fren said written on sand, wat basis does he have? cause i dnt see it on the Bible writing tis way. in the same case as of the 3rd point, it was the Holy Spirit who told them wat to write.

 

5th, cause of the flooding of the WHOLE world (not only eden), those edvidence of carbon dating were damaged as the whole world was soaked, only those things also of the earth were safe, thts y i took the example of the stars & even the sun as these were left untouch. Dinosaurs r real, the Bible did mention animals roaming the earth when the earth was created, these shld be toking about the dinosaurs, unless u r looking for exact words, i believe this is enough to know tht they were mentioned. wats fake about them is the number of yrs ago they appeared.

 

remember tht these r my views as a christian, i have nothing against u

[1.37boost]

waah. the topic went from a practical one (church-goers causing traffic jam) to a philosophical one!

 

tink writing to the TP, with cc to the church and the town council or something is prob a good idea.

 

isn't it amazing how that church has spent so much money on its architecture (the tiered steel facade and the constant waterfall down its external walls) but did not spend on more carparks for its parish, or a wider entrance/exit to ease the jam? tsk-tsk

[redname]

Originally posted by 1.37boost@Jun 28 2005, 02:41 PM

waah. the topic went from a practical one (church-goers causing traffic jam) to a philosophical one!

 

tink writing to the TP, with cc to the church and the town council or something is prob a good idea.

 

isn't it amazing how that church has spent so much money on its architecture (the tiered steel facade and the constant waterfall down its external walls) but did not spend on more carparks for its parish, or a wider entrance/exit to ease the jam? tsk-tsk

i guess they needed to cut down on some stuff cause of budget

[nivleK1985]

how much is a bible ?

[comics00]

Originally posted by redname@Jun 22 2005, 10:29 PM

dnt point at pple & say "u christian, u dnt know meh", veri impolite, moreover, how sure r u in ur facts? u use the word "gothic" which actually has relation to the goths, smeting to do with eastern german i believe. judging from wat hilter did to the jews, haha, i dnt really believe they had anyting to do with christiantity anywhere. moreover, gothic is associated with satanic stuff

 

there r some truth in wat u said but only in the part about having different grps worshipping the same "God". it all started in the age of adam & eve (well, almost), their descandants were separated & thus, started their own worship within their household, i cant give u the details now as i dnt have my notes with me (yes, i do have notes on these as i have a diploma in theology, so dnt say i dnt know my religion's history).

 

there's a lot of history in christianity basically because its the history tht proves on wat we r standing for. i do hope i can share with those who r interested but jus because its really long, i'm not sure whether i shld input tis.

wow! seems like this is the only active thread in "Rally Point"

 

firstly must apologise to redname. some talk(type) too fast never go through the big head

 

secondly as for the "goths" part i can't say much now 'cos past 3 yrs i've been reading abt Buddhism n MM Lee KY need to seach through my study room or back to library again

 

as for the history part we know abt the book "feng sen pan" & "see you chi" (journey to the west) r stories written base on historical event & figures. many of us will agree that the figures r only immortalise by the author. but there r millions of ppl who still offer prayers to these historical figures & hold strong faith in these immotrtals, they too can link their relics to history & archaeological finding... there is no end 'cos of this thing in human being :"faith"

 

another thing i wish to point out is that this strong feeling has been a powerful tool to the politician. in the "enlightenment age" of today, we still c these tricks use everywhere in the world, c how they stir up roar in the middle east! how i wish u can be here with me to witness how they use religion to stir up the morole of the soldiers!! even in sillipore, c our goverment trying hard to built these "we are singapore" thing into our younger generation! human being is an emotional spices...aminal, u control his emotion, u cntrol him.

 

it is the "faith" that the christian hold so strong that they believe that bible is the words of God, no evil or nobody can change the words of God. even though this religion has been wat i call a "political religion". just my personal translation of the history on the many wars that has been fought using God's name. his name has been abuse.

[comics00]

Originally posted by redname@Jun 22 2005, 09:30 PM

u r wrg, muslim's dnt have the same God, pls dnt make such remarks cause it might make an uproar. even thou u read a bit the same but if u go into context, its different. the jews don't follow the new testament cause in the new testament, its written tht its the jews who killed Jesus, so until now, they r still denying the fact, thus they dnt read it

redname,

 

i don't assume things 'cos i believe the saying "assumption is the mother of all f#$% up" wat i know abt Islam r all through muslims i know. to answer to ur post i specially visited this Turkish soldier i know to comfirm. this r his exact words "we all believe in the same God, the God of Abraham" btw he is reading the bible an american soldier gave him. it interest him 'cos he said he wats to know if there is any big diff between his holy book & the bible.

[comics00]

Originally posted by lava@Jun 24 2005, 06:29 PM

yepp, am glad Christ walk on earth 2000yrs ago..1 simple way to know that is the calendar system we having is base on Christ ressuration.. AD n BC

 

saw the documentary of noah's ark being found too

 

The link is very helpful.. thank you, Dunamis!!

'cos of the european power from the 15th centuries thus their use of roman calendar. u know wat, if the chinese danasty had make it ard the globe we will be now using the lunar calendar. guess wat!? if the indians had make it instate of the westener, we'll all be celeberating the victory of the "Light God" (sorry dont remember his name) over evil & not christmas... tell me abt the calendar system...

[comics00]

Originally posted by redname@Jun 27 2005, 01:34 PM

we christians believe in the Holy Trinity, muslims dont. back in the old testament, the Trinity exist already, so base on tht, how can u say muslim & christian believe in the same God? there r a lot more diff ut i lazy to type

ops! forgot to ask that Turkish guy abt the Holy Trinity, will go ask him

[comics00]

Originally posted by redname@Jun 27 2005, 02:35 PM

another case is tht in the Bible, it was already mentioned tht the earth is actually round, during tht time, no one was able to proof, later on, the earth was found to be round by scienist again

i fail to notice anywhere in the bible that pointed out that earth is round...care to share? i only remember reading from the national space & air museum, washinton d.c, USA, as early as 12th century scientist already found clues that earth is round & orbits around the sun but were to keep mute 'cos those who dares voice out were all acuse by the church for practicing witchcraft & were burn to death... & of'cos these acts r later explain as "the act of devil" ... the same old excuse to cover up their wrong doing.

[sheep]

Originally posted by comics00@Jul 1 2005, 11:13 AM

washinton d.c, USA, as early as 12th century scientist already found clues that earth is round & orbits around the sun but were to keep mute 'cos those who dares voice out were all acuse by the church for practicing witchcraft & were burn to death... & of'cos these acts r later explain as "the act of devil" ... the same old excuse to cover up their wrong doing.

Lol....

[redname]

Originally posted by nivleK1985@Jul 1 2005, 12:15 AM

how much is a bible ?

veri big range leh, can come from FOC to 100+

[redname]

Originally posted by comics00@Jul 1 2005, 11:13 AM

i fail to notice anywhere in the bible that pointed out that earth is round...care to share? i only remember reading from the national space & air museum, washinton d.c, USA, as early as 12th century scientist already found clues that earth is round & orbits around the sun but were to keep mute 'cos those who dares voice out were all acuse by the church for practicing witchcraft & were burn to death... & of'cos these acts r later explain as "the act of devil" ... the same old excuse to cover up their wrong doing.

u wait, i find the verse, confirm have

[nivleK1985]

Originally posted by redname@Jul 1 2005, 01:25 PM

veri big range leh, can come from FOC to 100+

redname let me know where to get 1 ?

i need 1 that's easier to understand. my english not v good so it'll be better if it's in simpler terms

[redname]

Originally posted by nivleK1985@Jul 1 2005, 01:49 PM

redname let me know where to get 1 ?

i need 1 that's easier to understand. my english not v good so it'll be better if it's in simpler terms

maybe u tell me which area u prefer lor. city area got funan, bras basah etc

 

i wld suggest the New Living Translation or The Message Bible. both r in easy to understand english

[william_liu]

Just FYI.

 

From NKJV: (Isaiah was written circa 720BC)

 

Isaiah 40:21

 

"Have you not known? Have you not heard? Has it not been told you from the beginning? Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth?"

 

Isaiah 40:22

 

"It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in."

 

Anyway, just to add my two cents, I too agree that for centuries people have been committing atrocities in the name of religions, and it is still on-going even today... so let us not fall into the trap!

 

[comics00]

Originally posted by nivleK1985@Jul 1 2005, 01:49 PM

redname let me know where to get 1 ?

i need 1 that's easier to understand. my english not v good so it'll be better if it's in simpler terms

when u need? if can wait then i give u foc when i come back

[redname]

Originally posted by william_liu@Jul 1 2005, 10:26 PM

Just FYI.

 

From NKJV: (Isaiah was written circa 720BC)

 

Isaiah 40:21

 

"Have you not known? Have you not heard? Has it not been told you from the beginning? Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth?"

 

Isaiah 40:22

 

"It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in."

 

Anyway, just to add my two cents, I too agree that for centuries people have been committing atrocities in the name of religions, and it is still on-going even today... so let us not fall into the trap!

 

thnx for providing the verse.

 

comics00, tis is the verse i'm toking about

[comics00]

Originally posted by redname@Jul 2 2005, 01:48 AM

thnx for providing the verse.

 

comics00, tis is the verse i'm toking about

thks found tht too in my bible.

now that really makes me wonder y the church didn't realise this indication in Isaish... for the centuries of studies n vast no. of bilble institution... sigh... atleast those scientist did die for a good cost & their belief.

[Blankies]

erm...No offence..but....

 

Circle is 2D.

 

And that circle in the bible, does not means the earth is circle, It means that Jerusalem is in the centre and they plotted all the areas with jerusalem in the centre of the circle.

 

See the links below for more info. you will see that the bible/christians/and other religions believe the earth was flat at that point of time.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_earth

 

http://www.answering-christianity.com/earth_flat.htm

 

http://octopus.gma.org/space1/nav_map.html

 

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/febible.htm

 

 

You might be also interested to read how Galileo was perscuted by his theory of the earth revolving around the sun, which was not accepted by a major religion at that pt of time.

http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~histor...ns/Galileo.html

[Blankies]

http://www.facingthechallenge.org/galileo1.htm

 

here is another link stating that Galileo thingy was a myth...

 

 

Well, think at the end of the day, history is written by the person who won.

[w1n6]

Originally posted by Blankies@Jul 2 2005, 10:59 PM

http://www.facingthechallenge.org/galileo1.htm

 

here is another link stating that Galileo thingy was a myth...

 

 

Well, think at the end of the day, history is written by the person who won.

rhetoric 0 - 1 dialectic