[Discussion] Technical - Coolant & Radiators

[eddie23]

hi , anyone here heard of coolant ice coolant b4? i heard this coolant ice can keep temp real low.better then normal coolant we use .is it true ?

[Sgbiker23]

yes......... bingo

[Vtec1605198534]

last time i use on my class 2 bike the diff is onli 1 or 2 degree diff nia....for tat kind of price, i will say juz use normal coolant or water wetter...

[and]

erm its call engine ice.. it can make the heat in the engine come out faster thus better performance for bike. something like tat. i change liao like same as normal coolent.

[J-tec]

Originally posted by [V]tec@Jul 6 2005, 01:21 PM

last time i use on my class 2 bike the diff is onli 1 or 2 degree diff nia....for tat kind of price, i will say juz use normal coolant or water wetter...

Where to get that "Water-Wetter" coolant? Premix?

[kaginah]

theres a thread here to do it MASS... look around

[Daijiro]

recently went to racewerks, the mech told me they no longer bringing in water wetter. instead, they brought in cool aide. he told me that there are no much of a difference between them and cool aide is much more cheaper compare to W.W. he added that cool-aide had been tested on both R1 and suzuki 1000 bikes and excellent cooling results shown. wat comment u have?

[ralliart_ray]

I think not much diff, both pinkish-red color rite? Anyway I am using maxmia cool aide... ok la, no negative feedbacks.

[MiCmAsTa]

But my fz1 is using the maxima cool aide but still very hot leh...

[Kushinagar]

Other discussion on a/m thread

[Daijiro]

Originally posted by MiCmAsTa@Oct 6 2005, 10:25 PM

But my fz1 is using the maxima cool aide but still very hot leh...

ur cool-aide/water ratio tio bo?

[xiaowang]

Where can I get Waterwetter? ANy shops selling cheap?

[floppy]

Originally posted by MiCmAsTa@Oct 6 2005, 10:25 PM

But my fz1 is using the maxima cool aide but still very hot leh...

i think scooterer basically sums up both products in a single line:

 

Water wetter (and cool-aide) is a corrosion inhibitor. ITs the distilled water that's doing the job.

[ANR Impex]

Originally posted by MiCmAsTa@Oct 6 2005, 10:25 PM

But my fz1 is using the maxima cool aide but still very hot leh...

FZ1 will never run as cool as a super4 unfortunately, they are 600cc and 90~100hp apart. What you get is a few degrees cooler (5~8 deg) most obvious when cruising on the highway. The engine is more responsive and won't bog down with heat. The meter will still read high when stuck in traffic but once u start moving, bike will loose heat faster compared to glycol type coolant. What you don't see is that the internals (oil, engine) is cooler, and as a result the bike remains more responsive.

[redname]

Originally posted by MiCmAsTa@Oct 6 2005, 10:25 PM

But my fz1 is using the maxima cool aide but still very hot leh...

how fast u go most of the time? for big bikes, u'll need to go pretty fast for the bike to hit a certain rpm b4 the coolant starts to go ard the bike to cool down the system

[Daijiro]

Originally posted by redname@Oct 7 2005, 11:36 AM

how fast u go most of the time? for big bikes, u'll need to go pretty fast for the bike to hit a certain rpm b4 the coolant starts to go ard the bike to cool down the system

the more rapid ur coolant flows to ur engine, depends on the rpm of ur bike.

[MiCmAsTa]

Originally posted by Daijiro+Oct 6 2005, 10:48 PM-->

QUOTE (Daijiro @ Oct 6 2005, 10:48 PM)

ur cool-aide/water ratio tio bo?[/b] Tio!   Originally posted by floppy@Oct 7 2005, 01:44 AM i think scooterer basically sums up both products in a single line:   Water wetter (and cool-aide) is a corrosion inhibitor. ITs the distilled water that's doing the job. That mean all this W.W and M.C.A is crap? Just use distilled water can liao?   Originally posted by ANR Impex@Oct 7 2005, 02:17 AM FZ1 will never run as cool as a super4 unfortunately, they are 600cc and 90~100hp apart. What you get is a few degrees cooler (5~8 deg) most obvious when cruising on the highway. The engine is more responsive and won't bog down with heat. The meter will still read high when stuck in traffic but once u start moving, bike will loose heat faster compared to glycol type coolant. What you don't see is that the internals (oil, engine) is cooler, and as a result the bike remains more responsive. OooOOoOooo... I see.....

[floppy]

Originally posted by MiCmAsTa@Oct 7 2005, 01:37 PM

That mean all this W.W and M.C.A is crap? Just use distilled water can liao?

cannot like that say also.

 

1. water and rust r good friends.

2. water causes mineral scaling.

these 2 r undesirable aftereffects of using water in the radiator.

water wetter and cool-aide r addictives that help keep those 2 items under control. they r good things to have.

 

however, even if u do not have either of those items, no issue also. just remember to flush and change the water often and u will do ok.

[redname]

Originally posted by MiCmAsTa@Oct 7 2005, 01:37 PM

Tio!

 

 

That mean all this W.W and M.C.A is crap? Just use distilled water can liao?

 

 

OooOOoOooo... I see.....

 

 

Usually in sg road around 100km/h +/-. I have remove the temostat which will cos my fan to on frquently...

100km/h shld be quite ok lah but everytime is it? thts the trouble with big bike, u ride in sg, veri easy heat up cause of the speed limit.

 

bout the part where u get whether the 2 coy r toking crap. the role of coolant is to prevent rust from the water mixed in & to keep the heat in when it gets too cold outside. so in hot countries like ours, the oil coy jus took out the thing tht keeps the heat in. in short, its the distilled water tht cools the system but we'll need smeting to prevent the radiator from rusting

[floppy]

Originally posted by redname@Oct 7 2005, 03:00 PM

bout the part where u get whether the 2 coy r toking crap. the role of coolant is to prevent rust from the water mixed in & to keep the heat in when it gets too cold outside. so in hot countries like ours, the oil coy jus took out the thing tht keeps the heat in. in short, its the distilled water tht cools the system but we'll need smeting to prevent the radiator from rusting

the role of coolant in general is, quite simply, to cool down the engine by means of heat conduction.

 

2 types of coolant r usually used in radiators:

ethylene glycol based coolant or water based coolant

 

ethylene glycol based coolant

pros:

less prone to rusting and mineral scaling (compared to water)

higher boiling point (does not freeze in cold weather)

cons:

more expensive (compared to water)

poorer conductor of heat (compared to water)

 

water based coolant is quite the reverse of the above.

but, freezing in cold weather - not our concern

prone to rusting and mineral scaling - job of the addictives (ww and cool-aide) to control

(having said that, our tap water are pretty 'soft'. they r already quite resilient to rusting and scaling. distilled water is even more soft)

[ANR Impex]

Nice summary floopy You're right about the soft part helping to minimise scale, but scale inhibitors found in most good coolant formulations do help. As for the rusting part, sorry, no matter how 'pure' the water we use, even the distilled version, rust will still readily occur. You're right, pure water is actually very resistance to corrosion. However, it takes only a tiny bit of impurity to turn it into a super corrosion facilitator. It is hard to maintain such conditions as it is impossible to flush the system 100%. Additionally, the cooling system is a metal 'container' heated to high temps. The chemical reaction rate happens exceptionally fast at those temps. Initial corrosion will add ions to the water and subsequently bump up the rate. A corrosion inhibitor is critical.

[redname]

Originally posted by floppy@Oct 7 2005, 03:17 PM

the role of coolant in general is, quite simply, to cool down the engine by means of heat conduction.

 

2 types of coolant r usually used in radiators:

ethylene glycol based coolant or water based coolant

 

ethylene glycol based coolant

pros:

less prone to rusting and mineral scaling (compared to water)

higher boiling point (does not freeze in cold weather)

cons:

more expensive (compared to water)

poorer conductor of heat (compared to water)

 

water based coolant is quite the reverse of the above.

but, freezing in cold weather - not our concern

prone to rusting and mineral scaling - job of the addictives (ww and cool-aide) to control

(having said that, our tap water are pretty 'soft'. they r already quite resilient to rusting and scaling. distilled water is even more soft)

i'm toking about the normal coolant. got to disagree with ur 1st line tht coolant is used to cool down the engine cause we have to see which type of coolant r we toking about (like u said, water based or ethylene glycol based )

 

2ndly, the diff between distilled water & tap water is tht normal tap water has +ve & -ve ions in them, thus enabling the metal in the radiator to rust easier, distilled water has the ions removed, so doesn't cause rusting tht easily. its not about "soft" or not

[floppy]

Originally posted by redname@Oct 7 2005, 05:15 PM

i'm toking about the normal coolant. got to disagree with ur 1st line tht coolant is used to cool down the engine cause we have to see which type of coolant r we toking about (like u said, water based or ethylene glycol based )

 

2ndly, the diff between distilled water & tap water is tht normal tap water has +ve & -ve ions in them, thus enabling the metal in the radiator to rust easier, distilled water has the ions removed, so doesn't cause rusting tht easily. its not about "soft" or not

let's start from the top.

 

what goes into the radiator is called coolant. coolant can be either water or ethylene glycol based and comes in many colours - clear, red, blue or green. pros and cons of water and ethylene glycol based coolant has been discussed earlier.

 

coolant, regardless of normal or "adnormal", serves the same (and only) function, ie dissipitate the heat generated by the engine by means of heat conduction (or in short, cool down engine). the choice of water or ethylene glycol based does not affect the function of the coolant. they do however, have certain properties (freezing in particular) that may favour one over the other.

 

both tap and distilled water will always have +ve and -ve ions in them. but the quantity of the ions present in them differs. if you do a ph test, distilled water will always test out to be slightly acidic. the reason is that distilled water dissolves carbon dioxide from the air. it dissolves carbon dioxide until it is in dynamic equilibrium with the atmosphere, ie the amount being dissolved balances the amount coming out of solution. the total amount in the water is determined by the concentration of co2 in the atmosphere (which is omni present). that implies that no matter what you use, tap or distilled water, it will rust eventually (as ANR Impex has pointed out). to remove ions in the water, you need to deionise the water. but deionised water is expensive and impractical to use in our context.

 

"softness" refers to the amount of inorganic salts and minerals present in the water. it is another ingredient necessary for chemical reaction (rusting and scaling) to take place. our tap water are highly treated but due to complaints about blandess, lack of taste, blah blah blah, minerals were added after treatment to enhance the 'flavour' (among other reasons). salts and minerals are present in distilled water for entirely different reasons - the process do not 100% remove all salts and minerals. minute residues will always be present during distillation. the "softer" the water, the less prone to rust and scaling.

 

end of chemistry lesson.

 

either you understand or you don't.

[andyann1]

Ok... t'was a very enriching exchange. Think we now know all we need to know about coolants. Thanks to redname and floppy. Peace.

 

[Kushinagar]

floppy & redname.......chemistry lesson indeed....

 

Hope after this we dun see clown putting more than the required amount thinking it'll cool down the bike more.....