[Discussion] CB400 SUPER FOUR HYPER VTEC Revo

[cabb]

WOW!!! NICE BASSY SOUND!!! even the gloves dropped. hahahaha!!!

[lemontree123]

Thanks Stronbow and Cab. Yes, I am from Australia. With the baffle installed, it's legal. I've taken out the baffle and it's even MORE louder! Definitely illegal I think. I'll make another video and post here for you guys to show the difference

[jorge_99]

hi guys,

 

Was wondering how much does the crash bar cost n where can i get it?

[Yat-]

hi guys,

 

Was wondering how much does the crash bar cost n where can i get it?

 

Unique put on its sbf page 75 chrome and 85 black. There's other shops which you can ask around.

 

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[cabb]

anybody knows where can i get the gear shift socks for the gear shift lever?

it looks something like the website stated.

http://www.yanashiki.com/PhotoDetails.asp?ShowDESC=N&ProductCode=RSS-BLACK

 

Thanks.

[SparkerS1]

Unique motorsports sells the gear shifter socks

[cabb]

Unique motorsports sells the gear shifter socks

 

Noted. Thanks.=D Ride Safe. =D

[chiaph]

FBF blue super four rider with chrome rims traveling towards Tuas link. Are you here?

[Mdreza]

Any place to change seat cover? Go to Bendemeer , shop closed.....

[Mdreza]

Any place to change seat cover? Go to Bendemeer , shop closed.....

[chiaph]

Any place to change seat cover? Go to Bendemeer , shop closed.....

eugene saddlery at 201 Syed Alwi Rd

[gamerzdude]

Noted. Thanks.=D Ride Safe. =D

 

Unique sells overpriced already. Get it from 219 at jln besar. saved me almost ten bucks if i recall.

[gamerzdude]

Noted. Thanks.=D Ride Safe. =D

 

Unique sells overpriced already. Get it from 219 at jln besar. saved me almost ten bucks if i recall.

[f-50evolution]

i have received a letter from looi's as well on the recalled bike lol

[ldslds]

i have received a letter from looi's as well on the recalled bike lol

 

Mine received from boon siew, well if ur bike dun have the issue yet there isnt a need to go as u can always go when urs is spoilt haha.... thats what i am doing

[f-50evolution]

Mine received from boon siew, well if ur bike dun have the issue yet there isnt a need to go as u can always go when urs is spoilt haha.... thats what i am doing

what kind of issue?

[ldslds]

the rear brake switch corrode issue

[breadman]

Anyone know how much is it to re-wire an entire Spec1 ? New wires and labour.

[jorge_99]

hie all,

 

I juz bought a new revo and come wit a warranty wit boonsiew, will the warranty be void if go to normal bike shop instead of boonsiew for my

1st servicing?

[ramsnake]

hie all,

 

I juz bought a new revo and come wit a warranty wit boonsiew, will the warranty be void if go to normal bike shop instead of boonsiew for my

1st servicing?

 

No, Boon Siew cannot void the warranty. Get the bike shop you go to to stamp on the warranty card and fill in the details. Also, keep the receipt for future reference.

[ramsnake]

NOW think back of what bro ramsnake mentioned which i think its very right

 

HONDA is indeed a very famous and world's largest manufacturer and this sentence is also very right

 

SO NOW, what if Honda is playing with unsuspecting bike owners' emotions by recommending 12,000km oil change intervals, so as to let the parts in the engine wear out faster? and people will scrap and buy new bike sooner? you might insist you are right and say that if HONDA engine is so lousy so as to wear out so fast, people will not choose HONDA, now think again, how many people change their EO at 10K km intervals and has been riding the bike for more than 5 years to let the long EO changing intervals' aftermath effect takes place? The recommendation is based on Japan with 4 seasons and ave temp much lower as compared to singapore.

 

Is it worth to risk the repair fee in $XXXX just to save the $XXX ? think of this urself.....

 

To conclude, its up to individual to choose how to maintain their bikes, to me its always better to preventive than to corrective. I will still stick to my 4.5K km EO changing intervals, cheers and ride safe bros

Are you confused? On the one hand you say I am right twice and then you conclude "it's up to the individual". And then after agreeing that Honda is famous and it is the world's largest bike manufacturer, you accuse Honda of "playing with bike owners' emotions" blah blah blah...

Really??? Sounds like you’re just trying to argue for the sake of it. Perhaps you need to use more of the grey matter, mate.

 

side note* : Bro ramsnake, i am still waiting for ur answer regarding "how can a bike indicates the condition of the battery?", please PM me or u can reply here for knowledge sharing... thank you

You can wait a while more or you can start putting that grey matter to work.

Edited April 22, 2013 by ramsnake
typo

[ramsnake]

To those “newer” members on this thread who have been patiently waiting for answers so they can form their own opinions or decide what to do because they may be coming up to their next oil change, I apologise for this late reply. I’ve been quite busy and haven’t had the time to post my reply.

 

I have also initially wanted to post enough information so that my post and explanations can be a stand-alone self-explanatory post. However time does not permit me to do so at this point. Nevertheless, let me state that my suggestions on oil change intervals and oil changes during engine break-in period are based on much time spent on researching on this hot topic as well as from my own experience gained from more than 25 years of cars and bikes ownership. This inevitable meant that in the early days, I also was a victim of unscrupulous mechanics/shop owners.

 

I have also had the good opportunity some time back, as part of my work, to review the management practices of a car rental company, an MNC with 200+ vehicles in their sale and distribution fleet as well as a Japanese truck and buses manufacturer. When you run a company with such a big fleet, maintenance best practices must be applied and I have been fortunate to gain some very practical knowledge in this regard. In other words, this is real world practical information based on facts. Not some opinion passed down from ill informed, “my father/uncle/very-kind-mech (insert your own “advisor” here) did this or suggested this and had no problems,” kind of advises.

 

I trust that people reading this understand that I have only mentioned the above info so you understand where I’m coming from. I have no need for any recognition and have absolutely no interest in grand standing. All I am trying to do, when I have some time on my hands, is to correct any misconceptions and/or mis-information. My only intent is to share what I know so that others, especially those with much less experience in vehicle ownership, can avoid spending money wastefully. Spend that money on good riding gear instead or modifications that actually enhance performance such as a 520 conversion.

 

As far as possible, I have included references as to where you can find some of the information yourselves.

 

Oil Change Intervals (“OCI”)

Firstly, when I recommended that 10,000km oil change interval, it is with the assumption that you start off with good engine oil for your bike. This invariably means fully synthetic oil. IMO, the top brands such as Silkolene, Motul, Motorex, Mobil1 and a few others do produce good oils. I am currently using Mobil1 4T 10w40 simply because it is a good oil and at $20 a litre, it is good value for money choice.

 

@SparkerS1 post #8676

“…Honda never revise its CB400 oil change interval for Revo [sic]”

If you are the Head of Production or Design Engineer at such a hugely successful company such as Honda is, wouldn’t you ensure that your product manual is up to date? If the oil change interval for Spec 1-3 bikes were still applicable for Revo, why would it be necessary to change the recommended interval? If you own a bike manufacturing company can you successfully increase your market share and become top manufacturer in the world by simply slapping some out-dated information for your new products?

I have no idea why the Suzuki GSXR1000 has an OCI of 6000km. Perhaps it has a smaller oil sump and thus the oil volume to engine capacity ratio is lower compared to CB400s. However, this is only speculation and you’d have to ask Suzuki why they designed the bike that way. I trust that the engineers at Suzuki know what they are doing. However, why are you taking another bike model to compare against the Revo? If you do that, why not use these two other examples?

- Honda CBR 1000 RR – 12,000km OCI

- Ducati Panigale 1199 – 12,000km OCI

Download the Manuals here:

http://campaigns.hondampe.com.au/Motorcycles/manuals/CBR1000RR.06.pdf)

http://ducati.com/services/maintenance/index.do

 

 

“I never insist on the oil change interval for the general public, I only sharing my knowledge/opinions on why I don't follow the manual blindly on certain issues.”

Nobody said anything about you insisting. However, in the FAQ thread, you did state “don’t argue with me about my oil change interval” until recently (this has now been removed for reasons only you would know). I now note that you have updated Post #4 of the FAQ thread with your comments about Honda not updating their oil change interval in the manual and etc as per your Post #8676 on this thread. If you only state your opinion without also including other member’s views on this matter, aren’t you providing information that is biased only to your preference? Isn’t this implying that your way is the only way? On the other hand, and if you were an unbiased moderator, you should include other’s views. If you disagree, do state your reasons to justify yourself.

 

Several members have asked that my post on 10k OCI be made sticky. Why haven’t you reproduced my post (with your objections if you need to) on that FAQ thread?

 

I hope you and every one else note that you have a title behind your name on this forum. At one time and for quite a while, you even tagged yourself as a “Legendary Moderator”. Please note that whenever someone carries a title it implies that that person is a subject matter expert and thus he or she need to pay attention to the things that are said. This is simply because for many of those who don’t know better they would simply think, “Oh, he is a moderator, so he must be right. I better follow.” All I am saying is that you should be responsible with what you state. When it is an opinion, you should qualify that opinion with the reasons behind it. Merely making a statement without justifying or stating the basis is passing of an opinion as fact, in other words, misleading.

 

 

“EFI bikes which generate more heat.

Singapore climate is different from Japan.

Singapore riding condition is also different due to many stop & go intervals when encountering traffic jams.

Heat will speed up EO degrading process.

Preventive is always better than corrective.”

 

Let’s start with that last statement. This is an opinion. It is not grounded in facts.

As far as engine heat is concerned, don’t you think Honda has taken this into consideration when they designed the cooling system and engine oil specs so as to ensure that the engine does not overheat? Whilst it is true that the Revo seems to run a bit hotter than a Spec 3 for example, how much hotter are we talking about? Is it hotter than a Fireblade?

 

Before we go any further, let me give you an idea as to how top manufacturers come up with those numbers for recommended maintenance. For the sake of brevity, let’s restrict ourselves to engine oil and filter change intervals. It goes without saying that manufacturers such as Honda know all about the bike and the engine they designed. That is to say, they have run enough tests during the development stage to collect sufficient data on the running conditions (operating temperature, wear rate, oil specs and etc.). They also know which markets they will be selling their bikes at. Based on all these information, they come up with an optimum OCI. They then consider that some bike owners may not use or may not have access to the best engine oil/oil filter that they recommend and may just use average oil and filter. This optimum OCI is then marked down to arrive at the “safe” recommended OCI in the manual. (Note: FYI, this process is considered normal best practice in any good manufacturing firm.)

 

As such, the recommended OCI stated in the manual is reliable.

 

 

“Singapore climate is different from Japan”?

See previous paragraph on how the OCI is derived. Do you really expect them to provide different OCI for every country the sell their bikes? Your statement also shows that you do not really understand operating temperatures in a combustion engine. External ambient temperatures only affect how fast the engine and its internal components cool down AFTER the engine has stop running. Whilst the engine is running, the internal operating temperature remains the same.

 

It is also interesting that you have picked climate to justify yourself. This just goes to show that you still lack the adequate knowledge in this matter. FYI, when vehicles are run in areas which experience the four seasons, the frequency of oil change is actually higher than those vehicles that are run in an area which doesn’t experience extreme weather changes. This is because in colder climate (autumn/winter) engine oils have to maintain a low pour point as indicated in the 0W/10W15W prefix of the oil grade indicator. In order to achieve the low pour point in cold weather, Viscosity Index Improvers (VII) are added to the base oil. It is the VII in engine oil that is most affected by the high shear factor in motorcycles, thus necessitating earlier oil changes if the engine is run during harsh winter conditions.

 

Read more about engine oils here: http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html

 

 

“Heat and traffic jams”

Traffic jam in Singapore? You have not experienced real traffic jams. Go ride in KL or Bangkok during peak hours for some experience. Do they not have traffic jams in Japan? In Singapore, even in the worst traffic jams, you can still split lanes and ride all the way to the front at traffic lights most of the time. On the expressways where cars are stuck, bikers can still ride at 40-50kmh while splitting lanes.

 

In any case, this is another very good example of how you have been making judgement calls or opinions without considering the facts. What do you think this thing called liquid cooled engine is all about? What is the radiator and fan for? When operating temperatures go higher due to moving slowly through traffic, isn’t it the function of the fan to lower the temperature to an acceptable temperature? Has Honda not taken all these into consideration when determining the specs for the temperature sensor i.e. at what point the fan should turn on? Doesn’t the bike come with a “High Temperature” indicator?

 

Also read about Flash Points in the All About Oil website mentioned above. Simply stated, Flash Point is the point at which oil is burnt due to high operating temperature. This has been taken into consideration when Honda recommends the correct oil grade to use depending on the ambient temperature.

 

Post # 8682

“5) Manual stated more frequent oil change as stated in the maintenance schedule when running the bike in very dusty condition. So in Singapore with so much constructions and road works, with the dirt and dust all around, we should ignore the claus stated in Page 95 of the manual and continue using its maintenance schedule?”

 

This is a good one! Thanks for the source of much amusement this past week for an acquaintance and me. This person happens to be the Course Manager – Automotive Technologies, at one of the ITEs. He concurs that Singapore can hardly be considered as dusty by any measure. Even with the construction and road works that you mentioned, on the whole, riding/driving in Singapore cannot be considered as riding under dusty conditions and car/bike manufacturers refer to as intended.

 

If anyone has been to Gelang Patah for a meal or petrol run, you would note upon exiting the North South Highway into Gelang Patah, there is a construction project going on about 600m from the exit. That road is always covered with sand and dust. Now, that is dusty. Absolutely nowhere in Singapore will you find such dusty roads. However, if you only ride on that short stretch of dusty road in Gelang Patah (300-400m) on a weekly or two to three times a month, it is not considered “dusty conditions”. On the whole, you would still be considered as riding in “normal conditions” and the air filter would take care of most of the dust particles. Whatever is the level of remaining dust particles that are too fine and manage to get past the air filter; most of it should be burnt during the combustion stage. The remnants would then be expelled as part of the exhaust. Minute levels of dust particles might get past the piston rings if the rings are not well seated. These would then take the form of silicon in the engine oil.

 

Seepage of exhaust gases past the piston rings are called blow by gases. Blow-by tends to decrease as new engines break in, then slowly increase again as an engine wears out. The purpose of the crankcase breather is to expel blow by gases into the air filter box. You can thus see that modern engines have been designed to eliminate most of the engine oil contamination that may be caused by dust.

(Google “engine blow by gases” for more info)

 

So what is “dusty” and why does Honda mention this in the manual? Think Dubai or the outback /deserts in Australia. Rural Thailand, Laos and Cambodia are dusty. In certain rural kampungs or plantations in general in Peninsula Malaysia where the roads are not paved with tarmac, that is dusty. If you ride off road often, that is you live in such a place and you ride your bike on a daily basis in such conditions, you are considered to be riding in dusty conditions. Then that clause in page 95 of Honda’s manual for Revo owners would come into play and you should adjust your OCI accordingly. This is simply because the CB400 is a commuter bike that is not meant to be used off road for any significant amount of time. If anyone uses a CB400 in dusty conditions as mentioned above, then the 12,000km OCI should be adjusted downwards to suit the conditions.

 

On the other hand if you ride an adventure bike that is built for off-road use, the bike manufacturer would already have taken into consideration that you do actually go off-road when they determine what should be the recommended OCI. Only people who don’t know better or are super kiasu would then mark down the recommended OCI to whatever interval makes them feel at ease. Thus, is this decision based on facts or is it based on the rider’s emotions (usually out of unfounded fears or kiasu-ism)?

 

Conclusion

Based on the above, IMHO the 12,000km OCI recommended by Honda is reliable.

 

If that is the case, why would I recommend that the OCI should be 10,000km? Here is where the fun comes in.

 

To begin with, Singapore is a tiny island by any measure. Most journeys are on average about 20-30km per trip. In my case, my typical daily ride is a 1.5km trip to my neighbourhood coffee shop where I spend a few hours working. About 2-3 times a week, after leaving the coffee shop, I ride another 1.5km for some grocery shopping before riding home. About 4-8 times a month, I ride about 15-20km one way for meetings. I also cross the border every 1.5 to 2 weeks for some makan and petrol. About once a month, I go on a long trip to KL and beyond.

 

Based on my typical ride between oil changes, most of the rides are short journeys. Research has shown that such short trips are harsher on the engine oil than longer trips. For this reason, I have marked down the recommended OCI by about 16.7%. More importantly, at the end of the 10,000km when it is time for an oil change, my engine still sounds good (not noisy, an indication of thin oil) and gear changes are still OK. I would be lying if I were to say that I don’t feel any difference. With the Mobil 1 I am presently using, you do begin to notice a very subtle or slight change at around 8,500km. This is most noticeable during gearshifts ever so slightly when the engine is cold. Once you get going and the engine and oil warm up to its optimum operating temperature it feels ok again.

 

Having said that and based on what I know of the data and research, this does not equate to the oil reaching anywhere near the point where it begins to start affecting the engine in terms of higher wear and tear. As indicated by gamerzdude, you can obtain confirmation of this by doing an oil analysis.

 

Based on my typical ride conditions, an OCI of 10,000km is appropriate. An old timer who uses his Spec 3 for dispatch work (higher short distance stop start rides) and has thus far clocked in excess of 220,000km has also using OCI of 10,000km. His bike has absolutely no problems and still runs well.

 

As such, for most other people who ride their Revo or other CB400s over longer distances than my typical journey, and provided you use a good fully synthetic engine oil, an OCI of 10,000km or 12,000km should be appropriate.

 

References:

Oil Analysis (http://www.blackstone-labs.com/what-is-oil-analysis.php)

All About Oil (http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html)

Bob is the Oil Guy (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/)

The Truth About Motorcycle Oils (http://www.post610.org/truth_about_motorcycle_oils.htm)

Motorcycle Motor Oil (http://www.vfrworld.com/tex_vfr/tech/oil.htm)

The Motor Oil Bible – Exposing the 3000 mile Oil Change Myth (Free pdf - http://hyperformancecycles.net/oil_bible.pdf)

[ramsnake]

Next Instalment:

- Running In

- Car/Commercial Vehicles Oil vs Motorcycle Oils (High Shear Rate and etc.)

[gamerzdude]

UPZ for Ramsnake!

 

To all bikers, do note that the viscosity label means different things between synthetic and petroleum oil. i.e. a 10w40 petroleum oil is actually thinner than a 10w40 synthetic oil, and the synthetic oil also outperforms (always) the petroleum-based ones for high temperature operations. Also beware that some brands market their oils as synthetic but they are not truly synthetic as the still use petroleum based stocks. If you want to have the highest quality, look for labels indicating synthetic ESTERS - it's a higher grade oil. For the REVO, regardless of age of the vehicle (that's bullshit anyway), stick with fully synthetic ester grade oils and you are guaranteed safe. - personally I use 10w40 or 15w40.

 

Stop start traffic is harsher on the bike's engine than continuous long distance touring.

Edited April 22, 2013 by gamerzdude

[ramsnake]

UPZ for Ramsnake!

 

Shhhh... not so loud, bro. Some people cannot take it...

 

For the REVO, regardless of age of the vehicle (that's bullshit anyway), stick with fully synthetic ester grade oils and you are guaranteed safe. - personally I use 10w40 or 15w40.

 

Stop start traffic is harsher on the bike's engine than continuous long distance touring.

 

15W40 would be better than 10W40. This would be covered in my next write up.