Aprilia Riders

[IZECUBEZ]

well depending on what you wanna change. most prolly between 1k-1.5k

 

Thx bro!

[blast3dGaL]

Hi all, anyone knows how much FM charges for overhaul??

 

depends... most importantly, "lu mau original, aftermarket? lu mau 1st hand, 2nd hand?"

varies from $800 - $1000+++

[IZECUBEZ]

depends... most importantly, "lu mau original, aftermarket? lu mau 1st hand, 2nd hand?"

varies from $800 - $1000+++

 

ROFL. Can imagine Ah Seng saying that..

 

So anyone done overhaul there recently? Wanna find out their workmanship costs 1st. Might wanna buy parts from UK to ship in..

[blast3dGaL]

ROFL. Can imagine Ah Seng saying that..

 

So anyone done overhaul there recently? Wanna find out their workmanship costs 1st. Might wanna buy parts from UK to ship in..

 

Ah Khai overhauling his baby Aini... ask him.. hee...

[tknge]

If buy together with you, maybe can get a bulk discount?

 

Shld ask the rest..

 

Wat's your opinion of A;pha 10 as compared to GPR? Wet and Dry conditions?

 

Yes, I will do that. I have not try Alpha 10 yet but I think would be as good as GPR. GPR give me very confidence on dry but wet so so.

[tknge]

well depending on what you wanna change. most prolly between 1k-1.5k

 

Wah....thats is exp!! I did at ideal for top is about 150 and bottom another about 180 for labour. Parts depend on what u change....

[redx]

i kena 1.2k without even changing pistons.

[blast3dGaL]

me change block, change piston, plus headlight, plus a few minor things add up to abt $700.. FM got stages one... hee..

[xxes123]

FM charges dependent on ur membership status...

Basic card =100-500

Gold card = 500-1000

Platinum card =1000-3000

Super Diamond card = >5000

 

U need to spend alot to become a Super Diamond card holder

[vipergod2000]

On top of that issue regarding Piston Seizure, Cessation, Seize, Cease -

 

Honestly i think It should be Cease.

 

Since SEIZURE is usually used in the context of CONTROL like - to take something like TO SEIZE THE OPPORTUNITY or .. to.. SEIZE CONTRABAND CIGARETTES, or SEIZE the day

 

And CESSATION is well - the end of something. So i think when you say 'Piston Ceased' - like... the end of the piston.

 

BUT aaaah well moving on..

 

I was taught by someone if you want to 'Whack' your bike, you should take precaution in doing so.

If you were to 'WHACK' in an abrupt manner, you would probably suffer more than if you subtly, but firmly, 'PUSHed' your bike near its limits.

 

Think of it this way - these 125s prefer Rossi's way of riding rather than stoners hard braking, hard acceleration. Smooth is the key.

 

Like say you were in 5th at 6k rpm, and you wanted to shoot off - 2 options.

 

Option 1) Clutch in, drop to 3rd, whack the throttle until you're about 9-10k rpm, then gradually release the clutch

 

Option 2) Clutch in, drop to 3rd, IMMEDIATELY FULLY RELEASE THE CLUTCH AND WHACK THE THROTTLE

 

 

To me, Option 2 is where you are kinda asking for it. Unless you're trying to pop a wheelie, i dont think you should ever pop your clutch in the instance when dropping gears to pickup. Then again, this is a personal preference of riding/safety perspective i commend, and i thought i should share, because it could save you a few hundred bucks when you're wondering why you just had a ceased piston.

 

 

 

 

Anyway, Subtly describing the whole enigma of

 

'IF I GO FAST FAST SUDDENLY CLOSE THRRROTTLESZXZX PISTON CONSPERM 1000000000.981243762423% WUN JEM WAN SUUUUREE WON JAM!'

 

Due to our bikes utilizing the presence of a 2T pump that proportionately increases/decreases the flow of 2T into the engine as the speed of the engine increases/decreases (similar to a supercharger), technically there shouldn't be a reason for the piston to jam if you 'SUDDENLYY CLOSEE TRRHROTTLESZXZ '

 

 

 

Also as stated in this thread

 

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186392

 

 

'2T pump works on a mechanical aspect:

Driven by the rotations of the engine : RPM

When the engine accelerate or decelerate, this reduction gear feed 2T accordingly with the RPM, smaller flow at low revs and more flow at higher revs.

 

 

On Premix,

The mixed petrol and 2T lubricates and get fed into the engine together, accordingly to throttle position.

Which meant, if you are engine braking, min amount of such mixture is being fed into the eninge, thus at high revs, you might be under lubing the 2t to it.

Therefore, while under heavy engine braking, just clutch it and blip the engine some '2T' to prevent seizures.'

 

 

 

 

But somehow, I agree with what TKNg said - That these piston destruction events can still occur due to insufficient 2T settings for the bike and the LACK of presence of petrol through your idle jet when you shut off your throttle, and obviously piston seize/cease ?!?!? will most probably occur at the higher rev ranges due to the friction,speed,heat.

 

 

If the temperature is maintained (due to several things such as coolant, spark plug grade (8 - hot, 9 - alright, 10 - cool), ambient temperature, Octane level of fuel) - All factors preventing pre-ignition (also known as 'Knocking' for Forced Induction Car lovers, and THEIR biggest fear) , which can cause the piston seizeCEASE argh.

 

 

 

Think about it - 2T IS LUBRICATION for your engine that REQUIRES it. It's not a supplement to ADD POWER etc. You NEED it. If there isnt enough lubrication, think of how painful it is when you're doing a girl without any lube, and you try and INCREASE THE SPEED AT WHICH YOU DO IT!

 

SURELY YOUR PENIS SEIZE ONE!

 

Pardon me, ladies, but i couldn't think of a better example

[Luster]

 

'IF I GO FAST FAST SUDDENLY CLOSE THRRROTTLESZXZX PISTON CONSPERM 1000000000.981243762423% WUN JEM WAN SUUUUREE WON JAM!'

 

Due to our bikes utilizing the presence of a 2T pump that proportionately increases/decreases the flow of 2T into the engine as the speed of the engine increases/decreases (similar to a supercharger), technically there shouldn't be a reason for the piston to jam if you 'SUDDENLYY CLOSEE TRRHROTTLESZXZ '

 

 

 

forget which bugger Aprilia Outing, said that highspeed close throttle juz like that possiblity of piston go booommmm!!!

told ya it cant go seize or cease or watever u wanna call it..

unless ur dumb enough on highspeed - clutch in. lower down gear, clutch out and brake.. u c wat happen..

 

enough said. juz get the facts right. period.

Edited March 12, 2009 by Luster

[xxes123]

It will not jammed due to the 2T as the pump is still pumping

It jammed becos of lack of fuel , "sudden lean out" , petrol has a cooling effect on piston as petrol draw the heat away from the piston in order to evaporate into vapor , the lack of it sudenly will cause temperature rise due to friction and it will lead to expansion of piston will occur reducing the clearence between the cylinder walls and the piston causing piston jammed..

 

There are ard 20-50 reasons why it will piston jammed , read up on piston failures , the location of jammed , crack , failure will tell u different things

 

Pre-det is due to using too low octane petrol for higher compression engine.. it will only lead to piston crown cracking aka blowing a big hole on the piston top, not seizure nor jammed ... when piston top crack, bike jus die , it would not wheel lock like piston jammed

 

Pre-det is due to overly lean and too low octane level eg DRZ400sm compression is only 9.8:1 while RS is 12.1:1 for rotax122 and 13.1 :1 for rotax 123 . DRZ can drink 92 comfortablely while an RS need 98 minimumly

Edited March 12, 2009 by xxes123

[xxes123]

to add on , pre-det is due to the "heat front" arriving from the centre of the block toward the cylinder walls prior to the arrival of the "flame front" when the petrol/air mixture is being compressed

Ignition by "heat front" is explosive and turbulent sending destructive shock wave while ignition by "flame front" dont.

By right , As the piston move to compress the fuel/air mixture , hydrogen atoms are stripped from petrol molecule forming free carbon and hydrogen atoms and these will merge with the oxgen atoms in a non-explosive manner forming carbon dioxide and water.

 

Pre-det wise unless u overly advance ur bike firing ,or too cheapo using 92-95 , overly shim the cylinder head too much ,running overly too lean or use a grossly wrong heat rating spark plug ,or else its shouldnt happen at all.

 

most ppl jammed becos idle jet too small to maintain the high rev at full close throttle at high rpm. its characterised by piston wall scratched or whole piston adhere to the cylinder wall..

 

not enough 2t failures are characterised by piston ring scratches on the cylinder wall

Edited March 12, 2009 by xxes123

[Luster]

i read until cannot read.. LOL!

 

petrol.. this and that.. kaoz..

u guys talk like can open bike shop liao lah.. kakakakakakakkakaka!

 

ez to say la.. if scared piston jammed, buy the bike put at home.

dun go ard saying nonsense theory.. wakakakakakakakaka!

 

Answer:

HIGHSPEED, PISTON WONT JAMMED IF U CLOSE THROTTLE FAST. -end-

[vipergod2000]

So are you saying 100% that piston ceasing is NOT due to 2T at all, and totally due to pilot/idle jet size/setting not permitting enough fuel to enter the cylinder during high speed fully closed throttle which thus you're concluding that the lack of fuel does not inhibit the cooling of the piston and therefore leaves the piston expanded etc etc ----------->PISTON JAM

 

 

 

I still think it has to do with a combination of lubrication, pilot jet fuel supply

 

 

 

 

That's a very detailed explanation on pre-detonation, thanks! I was into cars way before I got into bikes recently, and that's where i learnt the principles i shared before.

 

I do have to say though that from articles that I have read for Forced Induction cars, a lot of their 'Knocking' / Pre-detonation cases resulted in Piston Jam cases - from the photos of the canals bored into the cylinder wall , as they sit in remorse as reboring/replating a car engine is obviously a lot more painful in the wallet.

[vipergod2000]

i read until cannot read.. LOL!

 

petrol.. this and that.. kaoz..

u guys talk like can open bike shop liao lah.. kakakakakakakkakaka!

 

ez to say la.. if scared piston jammed, buy the bike put at home.

dun go ard saying nonsense theory.. wakakakakakakakaka!

 

Answer:

HIGHSPEED, PISTON WONT JAMMED IF U CLOSE THROTTLE FAST. -end-

 

 

 

I feel I just wasted half an hour of my life. It's like watching a B-grade movie.

[xxes123]

to add on

 

Heat rating is the measure of the plug core to conduct away the heat ,keeping the tip cool . The spark plug must be hot enough to burn away carbon preventing a short circuit , causing the plug to "foul" when ther is a short circuit .

but using a overly hot will generate the heat front causing pre-det

[Luster]

I feel I just wasted half an hour of my life. It's like watching a B-grade movie.

 

LOL!!!...

wat u share is rite, so why worry..

[vipergod2000]

to add on

 

Heat rating is the measure of the plug core to conduct away the heat ,keeping the tip cool . The spark plug must be hot enough to burn away carbon preventing a short circuit , causing the plug to "foul" when ther is a short circuit .

but using a overly hot will generate the heat front causing pre-det

 

Because Carbon is the ONLY non metal that can conduct electricity because of free electrons..... hahahahah oh boy here comes the bashing

[xxes123]

So are you saying 100% that piston ceasing is NOT due to 2T at all, and totally due to pilot/idle jet size/setting not permitting enough fuel to enter the cylinder during high speed fully closed throttle which thus you're concluding that the lack of fuel does not inhibit the cooling of the piston and therefore leaves the piston expanded etc etc ----------->PISTON JAM

 

 

 

I still think it has to do with a combination of lubrication, pilot jet fuel supply

 

 

 

 

That's a very detailed explanation on pre-detonation, thanks! I was into cars way before I got into bikes recently, and that's where i learnt the principles i shared before.

 

I do have to say though that from articles that I have read for Forced Induction cars, a lot of their 'Knocking' / Pre-detonation cases resulted in Piston Jam cases - from the photos of the canals bored into the cylinder wall , as they sit in remorse as reboring/replating a car engine is obviously a lot more painful in the wallet.

 

 

cars are 4 stroke . RS125 is 2 stroke .Different lubricating system . the reasons for piston failure are differents.

 

For 2t , viscocity , flash pt etc are also important consideration factors to consider if u are talking abt a very high compression and highly tuned engine . So long as u can find white smoke coming out when riding , 2T intake level is more than sufficient already for most normal road going RS.

 

Whether piston failure is due to enough 2 T or not ,very much dependent on the type of failure as i explain earlier , whether its at the walls, rings ,ports, crown etc are all due to different factors

[Luster]

oie.. u guys not sleepy uh ?

[xxes123]

Because Carbon is the ONLY non metal that can conduct electricity because of free electrons..... hahahahah oh boy here comes the bashing

 

sorry i cant remenber the exact reason or exactly which material can conduct electricity is responsible for plug foul. more reading up for u

 

The term spark plug heat range refers to the speed with which the plug can transfer heat from the combustion chamber to the engine head. Whether the plug is to be installed in a boat, lawnmower or racecar, it has been found the optimum combustion chamber temperature for gasoline engines is between 500°C–850°C. When it is within that range it is cool enough to avoid pre-ignition and plug tip overheating (which can cause engine damage), while still hot enough to burn off combustion deposits which cause fouling.

 

The spark plug can help maintain the optimum combustion chamber temperature. The primary method used to do this is by altering the internal length of the core nose, in addition, the alloy compositions in the electrodes can be changed. This means you may not be able to visually tell a difference between heat ranges. When a spark plug is referred to as a “cold plug”, it is one that transfers heat rapidly from the firing tip into the engine head, which keeps the firing tip cooler. A “hot plug” has a much slower rate of heat transfer, which keeps the firing tip hotter.

 

An unaltered engine will run within the optimum operating range straight from the manufacturer, but if you make modifications such as a turbo, supercharger, increase compression, timing changes, use of alternate racing fuels, or sustained use of nitrous oxide, these can alter the plug tip temperature and may necessitate a colder plug. A rule of thumb is, one heat range colder per modification or one heat range colder for every 75–100hp you increase. In identical spark plug types, the difference from one full heat range to the next is the ability to remove 70°C to 100°C from the combustion chamber.

 

The heat range numbers used by spark plug manufacturers are not universal, by that we mean, a 10 heat range in Champion is not the same as a 10 heat range in NGK nor the same in Autolite. Some manufacturers numbering systems are opposite the other, for domestic manufacturers (Champion, Autolite, Splitfire), the higher the number, the hotter the plug. For Japanese manufacturers (NGK, Denso), the higher the number, the colder the plug.

 

Do not make spark plug changes at the same time as another engine modification such as injection, carburetion or timing changes as in the event of poor results, it can lead to misleading and inaccurate conclusions (an exception would be when the alternate plugs came as part of a single precalibrated upgrade kit). When making spark plug heat range changes, it is better to err on the side of too cold a plug. The worst thing that can happen from too cold a plug is a fouled spark plug, too hot a spark plug can cause severe engine damage

 

 

 

http://www.ngk.com/search_char.asp?seenWarning=1&manufacturerID=1

[xxes123]

oie.. u guys not sleepy uh ?

 

Times are hard , need to stay up thinks of ways to rob the bank

[Luster]

Times are hard , need to stay up thinks of ways to rob the bank

 

u want to rob.. make sure ask me to come along.. i also have the same idea.. LOL!

[IZECUBEZ]

Good Morning All! =D