Aprilia Riders

[DeusExMachina]

Originally posted by eyz@Mar 10 2005, 03:56 PM

hmmm frankly speaking.. i know nuts about the improvement in performance by the carb.. my guess is that.. a bigger carb allows more air to be sucked in for combustion.. as inside the combustion chamber, there's mixture of air, petrol and 2t for ignition, with more air, the combustion will be umm.. stronger?? giving more power?? haha i have no idea.. someone correct me if i'm wrong.. whether it improve the top, mid or low end.. it depends on how ya jet the carb..

and with a bigger carb, ya need to rejet ya carb.. change to a bigger main jet.. meaning.. increasing fuel consumption..

 

Too much of anything is bad. When you increase the air intake, increase the fuel flow too. Everything has a range of acceptable ratios. But a rule of thumb says that running rich (more fuel ratio to air) is better than running lean (more air to fuel). At most you foul your plug. At most you don't have the best power. But you will still have your engine intact.

 

 

 

Too much air and you will run lean. Running lean can be bad, because a lean mixture is very very prone to detonation. This can lead to pre-detonation. What's pre-det? OK layman's way....

 

 

Your piston moves up and down like the way you would drill a gal. This happens thousands of times per minute.

 

Imagine this.... your piston is moving up to squish the fuel-air mixture. When it's about fully squished at the top limit of piston travel (time to go down), then the plug will spark and fire off the mixture and push the piston back downwards with force... to drive your crankshaft -> chain -> rear wheels -> bike. That's normal operation.

 

When you pre-det, your fuel mixture goes BOOM by itself (no need plug) while the piston is still moving UPWARDS. Imagine that your piston is moving upwards, but the mixture blows and creates a downward force. How do you think your conrods, piston crown and piston rings will stand up to the abuse? Not healthy. A few rounds of this and you can kiss that engine good bye.

[DeusExMachina]

Originally posted by lacrimosae@Mar 10 2005, 12:46 PM

I'm trying to get my own Aprilia Forum up.... Rest assured I will have a section created for the little post whores in us to chat and talk smack about everyone they hate, including me.

 

 

 

There's still the original AOC forums

 

http://forums.delphiforums.com/revenge6

 

 

Brought to us by HUNTER in 2000. It's still there, but unused. U might wanna ask Servo abt using it. Haven't seen that place in some time.. but it still there and working.

 

[eyz]

Originally posted by Messiah@Aug 24 2004, 05:57 PM

bill my overhaul

 

labour charge : 180

towing : 25

crankshaft repair kit : 160

press co. rod : 20

crankshaft bearing (2pcs) : 72

crankshaft oil seal (2pcs) : 25

clutch gasket rossi : 9

engine gasket rossi : 12

silkolene light gear oil : 16

piston rotax d54 *53.99 rs125 : 160

b5*1 = top end set rs125 : 25

total + gst = 739.20

edwin, this might be wat wanna know..

kaka

[eyz]

Originally posted by DeusExMachina@Mar 10 2005, 04:56 PM

Too much of anything is bad. When you increase the air intake, increase the fuel flow too. Everything has a range of acceptable ratios. But a rule of thumb says that running rich (more fuel ratio to air) is better than running lean (more air to fuel). At most you foul your plug. At most you don't have the best power. But you will still have your engine intact.

 

 

 

Too much air and you will run lean. Running lean can be bad, because a lean mixture is very very prone to detonation. This can lead to pre-detonation. What's pre-det? OK layman's way....

 

 

Your piston moves up and down like the way you would drill a gal. This happens thousands of times per minute.

 

Imagine this.... your piston is moving up to squish the fuel-air mixture. When it's about fully squished at the top limit of piston travel (time to go down), then the plug will spark and fire off the mixture and push the piston back downwards with force... to drive your crankshaft -> chain -> rear wheels -> bike. That's normal operation.

 

When you pre-det, your fuel mixture goes BOOM by itself (no need plug) while the piston is still moving UPWARDS. Imagine that your piston is moving upwards, but the mixture blows and creates a downward force. How do you think your conrods, piston crown and piston rings will stand up to the abuse? Not healthy. A few rounds of this and you can kiss that engine good bye.

hmm interesting information..

yup.. i know bout the air/petrol ratio.. but that can be set up on the carb, rite?

it all boils down to individual preferences and whether are ya willing to pay for it.. some like it lean, some like it rich..

nonetheless is my explanation of a bigger carb correct?? bigger carb mean more power?? xcept that there's a limit to it... and that the top, mid and low end can be set on carb itself?? cos i was only writing from my understanding.. and hope to get the correct answer..

 

and regarding bout pre-det, what reason behind for the lean mixture to ignite without the plug igniting?

 

hey Deus, thanks for always popping by to answer and give explanation on these stuffs.. really appreciate it!! thanks on behalf for all the rest of the priller~

[eyz]

hmm did a seach on pre-det..

instead found these

 

Fuel and Octane misconceptions

Will high octane give you more power? This is one of the most common misconceptions that I've ever come across. Technically, the answer is no. High octane fuel alone will not give an engine more power. Octane is a measure of resistance to detonation, or how easily a fuel will burn. Higher octane fuels do not combust as easily as lower octane fuels. They are actually more difficult to burn. High octane fuels were formulated for use in engines with high compression. An engine with a high compression ratio produces significantly more heat during the compression stroke. This heat will tend to prematurely ignite lower octane fuels and cause a condition known as pre-detonation. The fuel actually ignites before the spark plug 'sparks'. The piston is not in the optimal location to produce power when the fuel ignites. Higher octane fuels actually resist combustion and can produce less power in an engine that is not designed for them. High compression motors derive their power from the fact that they compress the air/fuel mixture more than an normal engine and get a 'bigger blast' as a result. Since the compression is greater, there is a tendency for the fuel to detonate prematurely, so a higher octane fuel is required.

doesn't explain the reason why lean mixture will pre-det, but at least this is 1 precaution fellow rider who runs lean can take...

 

even saw some anti pre-det 2t around.. too bad it's for snowmobiles..

[muser]

Originally posted by kink+-->

QUOTE (kink)

Muser, we better start a bike discussion pronto before these crazies tear the place down...[/b] Let them tear it down then, let Rome burn, heheh... but let's have a discussion anyway amid the flames.   Originally posted by kink@ Back to bikes!!!! Okay quick question, Clutch control, Muser and ben both have their biting points set way far... you need to release almost to the end before it bites, mine is real close, it's right there. Heard having the clutch so far is a racer thing, any truth? how does it help? Pros and Cons? Discuss shall we?   I haven't read or heard anything definitive, but reasoning from how clutches work and from my own experience: Cons of far biting point - Not as easy to play with the clutch at low speeds and when moving off - More difficult to launch   Pros of far biting point - Less chance/temptation of slipping/slurring the clutch on gear changes, ie. staying at biting point and releasing the clutch slowly. - Easier to execute partial clutch disengagement, ie. pulling in the lever only slightly (eg. 1/3, 1/2 or 2/3 of the way) during up or down-shifting. This is a safer and easier alternative to clutchless up and downshifting, especially in cases where it's impossible to go clutchless, like on big cruisers with clunky gearboxes, etc.   Ah Boon (Ideal Motors) also said that a far biting point is the way to go with RS125s cuz of their "high rev" nature, though since he was typically cryptic about it, it wasn't clear exactly what he meant.

[servoprax]

Originally posted by aith^19@Mar 10 2005, 01:06 PM

really? RS125 can like hit more tan 160kmh? tat's scary. coz wif my arrow pipe, i can onli go up to like 140... wad did pple do to their bike man?

rs 125 can reach 180km/hr easily with arrows. ripleys believe it or not.

[muser]

Thanks Deus for the excellent explanation of pre-detonation/pre-ignition, which is also known as pinging or knocking.

 

To add on to that - the key here is the uncontrolled and random detonations before the firing of the spark plug, causing both pressure and temperature spikes. The heat can be as hot as an oxyacetelene (welding/cutting torch) flame, cutting into your engine block.

 

Originally posted by eyz+-->

QUOTE (eyz)

and regarding bout pre-det, what reason behind for the lean mixture to ignite without the plug igniting?[/b]   I believe the reason is that in a lean air/fuel mixture (more air than fuel), there is more oxygen than in a rich mixture. This makes it more volatile, especially when compressed, and liable to detonate unpredictably.

[lacrimosae]

Good news to all!

 

New shipment of Unil-Opal oils coming in tom, Friday!

A large part of my stock has been reserved, but I've ordered extra for Aprilians and Mito riders, so those interested please tell me how many bottles you want to reserve. First come, first serve. Payment on delivery, no need to pay upfront.

 

 

In stock:

- 2T Titanium grade

- 4T 5W50, 10W40

- 2-stroker gear oil

- 4-stroker gear oil

- coolant (same cooling effect as Motul coolant, but temp rises less quickly when stationary)

 

* Next shipment will try to get 4-litre bottles, and also the Racing grade 2T (which is 1 grade cheaper than Titanium grade).

* Also available in 25-litre barrels... (hahaha, actually this is for dispatch riders who use cheaper grades of 2T, much cheaper than Racing. But the hardcore racer-boys who burn lotsa 2T can order too)

* Will try out fork oil. Those redoing their forks can let me know what weight of oil you want, will try to bring in asap.

[darren327]

Originally posted by eyz@Mar 10 2005, 05:02 PM

edwin, this might be wat wanna know..

kaka

wat the hell... my bill made it to the hall of fame ah?

[Guest TachiTJRS]

Also please note that we also have stock of Unil Opal 4T for four-strokes.

 

Top Grade fully synthetic - 5W50

Best in its class regular semi synthetic -10W40

 

If any of your friends with four-stroke bikes are due for an oil change, please contact me to order.

 

I am using the 5W50 with very good results. The engine brake is lighter, thus making the wear on the engine internals lesser and I am experiencing more power at higher revs plus good fuel economy when I blast the bike fast compared to the old oil.

 

Lacri id in charge of the 2T while I am marketing the 4T.

[muser]

Apologies if this is old news to some of you, but did you know that Piaggio bought Aprilia last year for US$570 million in cash and debt? Apparently, Aprilia was unprofitable at the time. The combined company is now the world's 4th-largest motorcycle maker with 1.5 billion euros in sales, 6,000 employees and eight plants that build 600,000 scooters and motorcycles a year, covering the Piaggio, Vespa, Gilera, Derbi, Aprilia and Moto Guzzi brands.

 

Just came across this in a business story (can you tell I'm at work?). I vaguely recall seeing this info somewhere online, but thought I'd share it here anyway in case any of you find it interesting.

[fibre]

Originally posted by eyz@Mar 10 2005, 05:33 PM

hmm did a seach on pre-det..

instead found these

 

doesn't explain the reason why lean mixture will pre-det, but at least this is 1 precaution fellow rider who runs lean can take...

 

even saw some anti pre-det 2t around.. too bad it's for snowmobiles..

If u took chemistry in college or poly, u will know that fine size particles combust much much easier due to the much larger surface area of each particle

 

Hence tis is why coal power stations use finely grinded coal powder instead of large chunks of charcoal (bbq)

 

However, if these particles get too fine, they'll burn rapidly enough to explode when mixed with air and a spark / flame

 

Dats why flour mills n wood mills explode on such frequent basis....

 

The job of the carburetor is to vapourise the petrol with the air so that it forms fine droplets which burn easily. But when you have too much air it forms even finer droplets that explode upon gaining energy from the surrounding heat

 

I hope u all understand

[gals behaving badly]

have any of you guys taken a stock y2k to pasir gudang?

 

i had been adviced (by friends who used to race rs125 n rs250) not to use my bike there without modifications. like to hear the experience of anyone who's tried it.

 

what sort of timing do u think is possible on this bike? (excusing this rider's short-comings)

 

[Visor]

Originally posted by muser+Mar 10 2005, 06:07 PM-->

QUOTE (muser @ Mar 10 2005, 06:07 PM)

I haven't read or heard anything definitive, but reasoning from how clutches work and from my own experience: Cons of far biting point - Not as easy to play with the clutch at low speeds and when moving off - More difficult to launch   Pros of far biting point - Less chance/temptation of slipping/slurring the clutch on gear changes, ie. staying at biting point and releasing the clutch slowly. - Easier to execute partial clutch disengagement, ie. pulling in the lever only slightly (eg. 1/3, 1/2 or 2/3 of the way) during up or down-shifting. This is a safer and easier alternative to clutchless up and downshifting, especially in cases where it's impossible to go clutchless, like on big cruisers with clunky gearboxes, etc.   Ah Boon (Ideal Motors) also said that a far biting point is the way to go with RS125s cuz of their "high rev" nature, though since he was typically cryptic about it, it wasn't clear exactly what he meant.

[xxes123]

dun worry guys my fuel/air mixture still quite rich..intend to tune leaner next mth..

the knocking sound is due to either worn piston ring , loose clutch plate or worn conrod/ conrod bearing....

 

reasons why not too lean

1) my pipe mouth still spilling liquid carbon

2)the petrol smell in my exhaust gas still quite strong

3) my splug plug kena fouled today... still can see liquid petrol on the plug.. and the plug is black and covered with carbon .. if too lean the plug should be light brown ... just right mixtre will result in outer ring blackish and inter firing part(sorry dun know wat the name) dark brown...

4) my 90km/h at 6th gear from rpm 6.3k had risen to 6.7k(loss of compression)

5) most of the time i using Vpower(highest octane rating ) so cahnce of pre-ignition quite low..

 

my bike old bike leh.... old man liao 8yr 10mths old ... previous OWNERS already whack like siao before selling cos when i first bought it the setting is for ARROW tune high end.. i done 18000km on my bike since taking over so it abt time for full overhual... intend to do it in MAY along with some mods.... :smile:

 

my current FC is 21.5-22.5km/l intend to push till 25-27km/l..... got some fuel savin mods in mind ... :thumb:

[denis]

Originally posted by xxes123@Mar 11 2005, 03:02 AM

dun worry guys my fuel/air mixture still quite rich..intend to tune leaner next mth..

the knocking sound is due to either worn piston ring , loose clutch plate or worn conrod/ conrod bearing....

 

reasons why not too lean

1) my pipe mouth still spilling liquid carbon

2)the petrol smell in my exhaust gas still quite strong

3) my splug plug kena fouled today... still can see liquid petrol on the plug.. and the plug is black and covered with carbon .. if too lean the plug should be light brown ... just right mixtre will result in outer ring blackish and inter firing part(sorry dun know wat the name) dark brown...

4) my 90km/h at 6th gear from rpm 6.3k had risen to 6.7k(loss of compression)

5) most of the time i using Vpower(highest octane rating ) so cahnce of pre-ignition quite low..

 

my bike old bike leh.... old man liao 8yr 10mths old ... previous OWNERS already whack like siao before selling cos when i first bought it the setting is for ARROW tune high end.. i done 18000km on my bike since taking over so it abt time for full overhual... intend to do it in MAY along with some mods.... :smile:

 

my current FC is 21.5-22.5km/l intend to push till 25-27km/l..... got some fuel savin mods in mind ... :thumb:

let me get the facts rite, leaner = more low and mid range, faster & more powerful pick up & lower fuel consumption. while richer = more high end , slower & weaker pick-up, higher kph & higher fuel comsumption. pls correct me if i'm wrong...

[SafetyCar]

have any of you guys taken a stock y2k to pasir gudang?

 

i had been adviced (by friends who used to race rs125 n rs250) not to use my bike there without modifications. like to hear the experience of anyone who's tried it.

 

what sort of timing do u think is possible on this bike? (excusing this rider's short-comings)

==============================

 

 

I'm not a Technical Fellow. Been to PG with my Stock Extrema in 1997 with my Aprilia Pals..... All I can say for stock vs Modded : 'Smell Smoke.... Really' Modded Mid Range just whizzed pass me easily.....

 

As for timing.... If memory doesn't fail me...... Average for pretty good riders should be 1 min plus.... think is 1 min 20 - 30 seconds..... I may be wrong ah... just trying to squeeze the timing out from my Pea Brain.

 

Petronas Team of Malaysia should be the ones having the best timing in PG.

 

 

 

SafetyCar aka Guan

 

 

P/S : Just take your stock Y2K to PG and experience the fun and thrill. Don't need to bother about timing la...... Go and try it.... It's a good feeling to Flex your bike on the 4 lane wide Tarmac. :>

 

Enjoy!!!!!

[SafetyCar]

some lazy ones will like gear in just by squeezing their clutch halfway and the have their biting point somewhere 3/4 off the clutch lever..

===========================================

 

Ha ha ha.... That's me..... Lazy Pig hor??!!!!! Me lazy la......

 

Guan

[lacrimosae]

Good news to all!

 

New shipment of Unil-Opal oils is here!

A large part of my stock has been reserved, but I've ordered extra for Aprilians and Mito riders, so those interested please tell me how many bottles you want to reserve. First come, first serve. Payment on delivery, no need to pay upfront.

 

 

In stock:

- 2T Titanium grade

- 4T 5W50, 10W40

- 2-stroker gear oil

- 4-stroker gear oil

- coolant

 

* Next shipment will try to get 4-litre bottles, and also the Racing grade 2T (which is 1 grade cheaper than Titanium grade).

* Also available in 25-litre barrels... (hahaha, actually this is for dispatch riders who use cheaper grades of 2T, much cheaper than Racing. But the hardcore racer-boys who burn lotsa 2T can order too)

* Will try out fork oil. Those redoing their forks can let me know what weight of oil you want, will try to bring in asap.

 

TachiTJRS is marketing for 4-stroker oils, but at the moment those interested in 4-stroke can get stock from me first. Have plenty to go round...

[servoprax]

there's an interesting article in business times 2 days back. it discussed the possibility of promoting motorsports in singapore and the possibility of building a pasir gudang style track. however it will neva be able to replace sepang f1 gp circuit. does anyone have the link ?

[servoprax]

OK did some research and found it finally !!!!!

 

 

Motor racing makes comeback with Tuas track

 

By SAMUEL EE

 

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(SINGAPORE) Car racing will return to Singapore. Work on a permanent track costing at least US$15 million starts soon at Tuas, confirming an earlier BT report.

 

 

A site of more than 50 acres near Asia Pacific Breweries on Jalan Ahmad Ibrahim will house a race track and various leisure-related buildings. The 20-year lease for the JTC land is estimated at between $10 million and $15 million.

 

Funding for the project is said to come from Singapore Agro Agricultural (SAA), one of Turf City's main shareholders. When contacted, SAA said it has no comment for now. And JTC called the project 'confidential'.

 

But a source said infrastructure at the site will include buildings for cafes, restaurants and even a shopping centre to make the project commercially viable.

 

'It will be a destination for the whole family,' he said. 'While dad is watching the race, mum and the kids can entertain themselves or go shopping.'

 

A country club is also on the cards, where members will enjoy leisure facilities and other club privileges.

 

The track is said to be about 3km long - slightly shorter than the Pasir Gudang track in Johor. The circuit will be FIA-sanctioned but it won't be for Formula One races - partly because of the astronomical hosting fees required.

 

 

 

 

 

FIA is the world governing body for motor sports and organises other events such the World Touring Car and GT championships.

 

'We are not targeting F1 but we will still have races that will bring in spectator crowds,' said the source. 'The touring car championship will have entrants who drive cars like the Alfa Romeo 156, BMW 3 Series, and even the Chevrolet Optra - cars you and I can associate with.'

 

There will also be weekend races and track days - something that should excite local motor sports enthusiasts who have been lobbying the authorities for a circuit. Until now, these recreational racers have only had car park rallies, like those organised by the Singapore Motor Sports Association. But permits for these have not been issued since late 2003.

 

The source said construction of the Tuas track is expected to begin in a few months once regulatory approvals are given.

 

The land earmarked for the circuit is said to have been put on the market early last year. It is zoned for motor racing activities and SAA tendered for it late last year.

 

Singapore is considering motor sports as a way to boost tourism, and races here could also be marketed as part of a regional series involving other Asean countries. The last time there was any organised racing locally was in the 1970s. But the Singapore Grand Prix was dropped because of the Opec oil embargo.

[kink]

Servo, you said car racing, won't we lowly two wheelers be entitled to usage? and any word as to when we might see it's completion? Am feeling tingly all over just thinkin about it.

[gals behaving badly]

Originally posted by SafetyCar@Mar 11 2005, 07:47 AM

P/S : Just take your stock Y2K to PG and experience the fun and thrill. Don't need to bother about timing la...... Go and try it.... It's a good feeling to Flex your bike on the 4 lane wide Tarmac. :>

 

Enjoy!!!!!

Thanks SafetyCar... i guess as much that i'm not going to keep up with the rest of the mod bridgade. will definitely hav a go at the track main thing is to enjoy the ride, right? but really dun want to look bad, esp on an aprilia dun want to look like an attention seeking "female rider" that just cannot make it imagine losing to sp n kips...

[fibre]

Originally posted by xxes123@Mar 11 2005, 03:02 AM

4) my 90km/h at 6th gear from rpm 6.3k had risen to 6.7k(loss of compression)

dun waste money on fuel mods

spend it on your clutch plate