Feedback abt YBR

[crazydj]

Ah, interesting insights guys. Anyway, i just bought a multimeter. Here are my findings.

 

Engine turned off --> 12.8V

Engine turned off idling --> 14+V

Engine turned on while revving --> 19+V

Starting engine on with starter button pressed --> 9+V

 

These symptoms were exactly the same last year in Jan 2011. I changed battery, rectifier, starter motor, carb and in the end, changed magneto coil, everything okay again. Perfect. I recall i changed rectifier also no difference. Still over charge when rev my bike. But when changed magneto coil, swee. 14V like that only.

 

My headlight bulb is 35/35W. Battery changed early this year because the battery gone. MF type. Put acid and mallet the cover down. Personally changed them myself. Fuse is alright and intact, just checked it the other day.

 

Is it a busted magneto coil or is there really something wrong with the electricals that make the coil spoil?

Edited November 13, 2012 by crazydj

[Limhg]

If thats the case hor.. I think its better to bring to a good mechanic for check up le. Rather than you change the coil and bike spoil a few months later. Than tell us what is the problem so we know how to solve another weird problem. haha

[ezzyoiler]

if you know the resistance of the coil ...check that to confirm that it is okay....

have you heard of layer shorts?? this may be the case.coil / motor common failure mode.

[crazydj]

Charging Coil Resistance/ Colour = 0.64 ~ 0.96Ω at 20°C/White-white

 

So how do i read this? When i measure the resistance range, it doesnt matter the order of the wire right? Must i turn on the engine?

 

Oh, and what is a layer short?

 

EDIT: Hmm, so i brought down my multimeter and measured the resistance between the two white-white wires coming out from the coil. The reading was between 01.0 and 170.0, with the engine off. It kept jumping up and down like mad and if i am not wrong, shouldn't the resistance be stable, within some range? Like, stated above, between 0.64 ~ 0.96Ω? I am not too sure whether the way i measure is correct. My electronics background is only O-Level Physics/D&T and build and repair PC only. The other wires all give me a nil reading.

Edited November 14, 2012 by crazydj

[ezzyoiler]

yeah...check all the wires..same colour..you shoild have a " balanced" reading..

resistance only changes with temperature..i have only pr 6 sciece only..so pardon me if there is any errors..

 

checking an alternator is not easy..need complicated equipment to do a proper test...

the resistance chck is a very basic check...if resistance is not balanced..i would believe that the stator is ng. or failing..

check this out..if you re keen to do a complete test..http://www.allpar.com/fix/codes/sensors/charging.html

Edited November 14, 2012 by ezzyoiler

[ezzyoiler]

layer short is a term used when the insulation fails/broken betwween two layers of magnet wires in a coil..this creates a short cut..not open circuit..thus the resistance of that coil is reduced..

and dependinding on the contact bewtween the wires..as when in operation the vibration and heat generated cause the coil to go haywire.

sometimes layer short cannot be measured when it is not energised.

[ezzyoiler]

Charging Coil Resistance/ Colour = 0.64 ~ 0.96Ω at 20°C/White-white

 

So how do i read this? When i measure the resistance range, it doesnt matter the order of the wire right? Must i turn on the engine?

 

Oh, and what is a layer short?

 

the specs call for

 

EDIT: Hmm, so i brought down my multimeter and measured the resistance between the two white-white wires coming out from the coil. The reading was between 01.0 and 170.0, with the engine off. It kept jumping up and down like mad and if i am not wrong, shouldn't the resistance be stable, within some range? Like, stated above, between 0.64 ~ 0.96Ω? I am not too sure whether the way i measure is correct. My electronics background is only O-Level Physics/D&T and build and repair PC only. The other wires all give me a nil reading.

 

 

the specs calls for .64 to .96 ohms...your reading up to 170 ohms..either the test is bad..or the wires may be showing failure and soon open circuit ..imho. hope i am wrong..

 

the othwr wires nil reading...i expect you to read this...as most coil resistance is so low..that a micro ohms tester is used.

Edited November 14, 2012 by ezzyoiler

[ezzyoiler]

may be you find this useful...a good quality coil ..should be/...

varnished after all the assembly is done..absolutely necessary for a high quality coils.

take note whether the coils are tied up..nicely and firmly..

this is just a visual check.low cost coils may skip these2 steps..

[crazydj]

1. Hmm... I changed the coil twice and they both failed after 1year and 10 months. YBR is known for its magneto coil always spoil one. The thing is that, is it the coil design always spoil or the electrical circuit design is already flawed to start with?

 

2. Is my reading correct? I tried the other wires with the other settings on the multi meter. Only the white-white wires gave me a reading, but like i described, it keep jumping up and down like hell.

 

3. My bike, the meter bulbs always blow out one. Until i cannot be bothered to change them anymore. Last year, i changed the rectifier, CDI, magneto coil, ignition coil and still blow out. Left nothing already to change. I suppose the bike wire harness/ electrical design problem?

 

4. In my multimeter, i put the resistance range at 200ohms and it reported a max of 170Ω. This is like, super high right compared to 0.96Ω which is not even 1Ω?

 

Thanks!

Edited November 14, 2012 by crazydj

[yinghai]

Now i know why your bulb keeps blowing.. Seriously, i need to see your bike.. Let me know what battery brand youre using. A battery one feature is to prevent the voltage from going high.. If you really cant take it, i can built for you lm7812 ic chip with some caps and resistor and diode.. Its a voltage regulator ic to prevent overvoltage.. Most common problem of ybr is not the charging coil for your info.. Its the pick up coil.. Once the pick up coil spoil.. Your bike wont start.. Nothing to do with charging coil.. If your coil can produce 19v.. Means you have more number of winding turns which is good in producing electricity which is very good..

[ezzyoiler]

the pick up coil...somtimes known as a pulsar coil..is for timing purpose only...sending a pulse to the cdi for firing spark plugs..i believe nothing to do with charging..

producing a voltage to 17 to 19 volts..the secondary/primary turns have change..or the rectifyier is not doing its job...

 

eureka. or..check your rotor...the rotor may be bad ...(that coils that rotate in the stator coil.).

resulting in higher voltage. maybe this guy is screwing up your output voltages.

Edited November 14, 2012 by ezzyoiler

[Limhg]

Eh crazy dj... I think your bike's illness is not easy to treat type. IMHO I'd rather bring it to an experienced mechanic to check rather than diagnose using information given to you online. OF course its better to hear from the bros here too. But time to bring your sick horse to the vet. Just sayin

 

You may end up spending more time and money if you DIY, which is good la. If you got the time and the money experiment lor.

 

I can intro you a good experienced mechanic that specialize in doing commuter class motorcycles. I think experience beats knowledge most of the time.

[crazydj]

Pickup Coil is in the CDI right?

 

Anyway, i think it could be the rotor which is at fault. Two magneto coils busted exactly 1year and 10 months apart? Hmm... The others all changed already...

[crazydj]

Eh crazy dj... I think your bike's illness is not easy to treat type. IMHO I'd rather bring it to an experienced mechanic to check rather than diagnose using information given to you online. OF course its better to hear from the bros here too. But time to bring your sick horse to the vet. Just sayin

 

You may end up spending more time and money if you DIY, which is good la. If you got the time and the money experiment lor.

 

I can intro you a good experienced mechanic that specialize in doing commuter class motorcycles. I think experience beats knowledge most of the time.

 

Who is he and where is his shop?

[crazydj]

Eh crazy dj... I think your bike's illness is not easy to treat type. IMHO I'd rather bring it to an experienced mechanic to check rather than diagnose using information given to you online. OF course its better to hear from the bros here too. But time to bring your sick horse to the vet. Just sayin

 

You may end up spending more time and money if you DIY, which is good la. If you got the time and the money experiment lor.

 

I can intro you a good experienced mechanic that specialize in doing commuter class motorcycles. I think experience beats knowledge most of the time.

 

Who is he and where is his shop?

[ezzyoiler]

Pickup Coil is in the CDI right?

 

Anyway, i think it could be the rotor which is at fault. Two magneto coils busted exactly 1year and 10 months apart? Hmm... The others all changed already...

the pick up or pulsar coila is normally mounted on the flywheel for timing to cdi to fire spark plugs..

Edited November 15, 2012 by ezzyoiler

[crazydj]

the pick up or pulsar coila is normally mounted on the drive shaft...crank shaft for timing to cdi to fire spark plugs..

 

Oh okay. My ybr service manual suggests that the pickup coil is in the CDI.

[yinghai]

Rectifier has 5 wires 6 diodes, its job is to convert alternating current to direct current.. The rotor youre saying has a large fixed permanent magnets. I was saying most common problem for ybr is the pick up coil.. Which i personally change more than 5times.. i dont think theres anything wrong with the coil..

 

something easier to read

 

http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/pdfs/Troubleshooting-3P-PMG-&-RR.pdf

Edited November 14, 2012 by yinghai

[Limhg]

eng sin motor. run by two old brothers. My regular mech is the older guy. Price is abit on the expensive side, however he is very patient, very thorough, and very experienced. He will even explain everything to you in detail if you bother to ask.

 

He showed me alot of parts can be in original packaging. But difference is noticeable if you look closely. Many times my bike seemed like got problem, bring there only wire loose la, swingarm pivot never grease la.. he also just fix for me free. Got another time, I saw a s4 push come. Cannot start. He fiddled with it and can start le. Wire loose. He didnt charge the stranger too.

 

However the parts are fairly expensive if it needs to be changed.

[crazydj]

Rectifier has 5 wires 6 diodes, its job is to convert alternating current to direct current.. The rotor youre saying has a large fixed permanent magnets. I was saying most common problem for ybr is the pick up coil.. Which i personally change more than 5times.. i dont think theres anything wrong with the coil..

 

something easier to read

 

http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/pdfs/Troubleshooting-3P-PMG-&-RR.pdf

 

Ah, interesting... Where is the pick up coil located?

[ezzyoiler]

quote...

ELECTRONIC IGNITION

 

 

 

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forums/sourcecoil_triggera.jpg Most Electronic Ignitions have four parts that can fail. trigger (pickup) coil, a source coil, a CDI unit (Black Box) and an ignition coil. The trigger coil tells the black box when to trigger the spark. It does this when a small magnet on the flywheel passes the trigger. The source coil produces the power. The black box coordinates everything and tells the ignition coil when to fire the spark plug. This is for a magneto and requires no battery, as the power comes from the source coil. Battery Ignition CDIs use the battery as a power source. The battery is then recharged by the charging system. Now, when I say CDI I mean Capacitor Discharge Ignition, but I am also lumping in all types of ignitions that don't use points. Each manufacturer has their own design and way of thinking. However, they all seem to have those four parts. Trigger coil, source coil, black box, and ign coil. Usually, they give you specs on the trigger unit, source coil, and ignition coil. Sometimes, they give specs on the CDI box too. These specs are given as resistance values in Ohms. That means we can test them to see if they are good... sort of... most times... maybe ! Some manufacturers also give values for the black boxes too, and some don't. All this means these things are very hard to test accurately. Fortunately, most of the electronic ignition units are quite reliable and require no service, but this plus turns to a minus when they do go bad. They are very hard to trouble shoot. To top it off, most motorcycle CDIs are expensive to replace, and when they go out, the bikes are too old to justify the expense of replacement. ...

 

hope this helps

[crazydj]

Alright, thanks!

[yinghai]

Ezzy, You may have the knowledge.. But the words and terms use are abit wrong and confusing.. Battery cdi?? You mean tci?.. They are cheap actually.. Cheaper than the coil itself..

[yinghai]

Anyway, 19v from coil sounds very good actually.. Ask your mechanic if they can help you wire a cbr150 rectifier.. This might permanently fix your problem.. Or you can try using xr400 rectifier.. One of the toughest..

[crazydj]

Hmm, i sent my bike to Ah Chong Planet and it got fixed already. He replaced the rectifier, battery and starter relay. Lol.

 

Battery = $38

Rectifier = $38

Starter relay = $28

4 meter bulbs = $8

 

Yeah, i know, i know. But i didn't know what was wrong in the first place haha. So extra $$$ for labour and troubleshooting.

 

It rides much better la. Can feel much more power really. But tomorrow i have to remove my head fairing to replace my aux light and fuel guage bulbs myself and source out for a faint rattling sound coming from the meter unit. Sian.

 

@yinghai, bro, you mean other bike's rectifier/regulator can interchange? Don't you have to mod the connectors or something?