Bikers Theological Discussion

NinjaLite · April 20, 2010

Its a totally different issue. GOD can heal ... dat is a fact... its also a fact dat GOD can choose to heal or not to heal , isnt it...

Facts: GOD can heals... Paul thru GODs powers, can also do miracle healing...

but it also remains dat not necessary Paul can heal himself esp since tis illness is a work of Satan ..isnt it? Jus like Job...Satan gives illness to Job... but does GOD immediately heal Job ??? no rite?

Acts 19:11 And God did unusual {and} extraordinary miracles by the hands of Paul,

Paul is more than a doc ... he is a supernatural healer

those healings, unusual extraordinary miracles were done thru Paul by the power of God.

The Ultimate Healer cannot heal his apostle ??? i cannot visualize that

NinjaLite · April 20, 2010

Back to d topic... u wil c dat i m persistent til i get an aswer..

Is there or isnt ther a alternative explanation to Gal 4:13-15 ???

If there is no answer now... can help do more indepth research... or check wif someone else? if got solid answer, den post it out...

den d ball wil b back to Mord's court... hehe....

Mord,,, hurry hurry... anymore more verses dat specifically states Pauls is an physical illness dat d otherpartyn cant rebutt??

x_00_x · April 20, 2010

Its a totally different issue. GOD can heal ... dat is a fact... its also a fact dat GOD can choose to heal or not to heal , isnt it...

Facts: GOD can heals... Paul thru GODs powers, can also do miracle healing...

but it also remains dat not necessary Paul can heal himself esp since tis illness is a work of Satan ..isnt it? Jus like Job...Satan gives illness to Job... but does GOD immediately heal Job ??? no rite?

Do you ever realized that Jesus often refer to God as the Father. However in the Bible, and especially to alot of people, God is also the vengeful/sadistic Judge.

Question : Can God as the Judge be unjust.

If you choose to be under the Law, you will receive your wages.

having said that, it seems that this question about Job has been answered several time, and it is clear that you are still not convince. God can heal and has a choice. And you have not answer my previous question yet.

What ever the Father does, the Son do. Tell us now, did Jesus ever give anyone diseases or infirmities ?

Back to d topic... u wil c dat i m persistent til i get an aswer..

Is there or isnt ther a alternative explanation to Gal 4:13-15 ???

there is no other explanations so long as your heart is not open to Jesus and His finish work and His gifts for you.

Maybe you can read up on the following

http://www.biblegateway.com/resources/commentaries/IVP-NT/Gal/Personal-Appeal

Paul recalls that it was because of an illness that he first preached the gospel to the Galatians (4:13). We often wonder what kind of illness Paul had. The suggestion that he had some kind of eye problem is supported by his statement in verse 15 that the Galatians were so concerned for him that they would have given him their own eyes if they could have done so. And Paul's use of "large letters" when he wrote (see 6:11) is also taken as evidence that he had eye trouble. Since I had eye surgery as a child and still struggle with poor eyesight, I've been encouraged by the thought that the great apostle was able to do so much even though he may have had eye trouble. But I must admit that there is insufficient evidence to be dogmatic about this theory. Paul's statement that the Galatians would have been willing even to give him their eyes is probably an idiomatic way of complimenting them for their compassion and generosity. And his use of large letters when he wrote was his way of emphasizing his point.

Of course there have been many other attempts to determine what illness Paul had. Some say he had malaria; others suggest epilepsy. If Paul had all the illnesses that our commentaries say he had, he was a very sick man indeed. The truth is, we have insufficient evidence to make an accurate diagnosis. But we should not let all the speculation about the nature of his illness distract us from Paul's perspective that even his illness was an opportunity to preach the gospel. It is common to view illness as a hindrance to preaching the gospel or an excuse not to do our duty. But Paul realized, as he says in a letter to the Corinthian church, that God's grace is sufficient for us in our weakness--in fact, that God's power is best expressed through our weakness.

You should be focusing on Jesus and what He can do for you. Instead, you are all out to proof one single point, that is whether Paul is indeed sick. So what, even if he is, he still push on so that the Gospel can be preached to the others. And God also deliver him as well.

ChaoPuzzy1968 · April 20, 2010

Back to d topic... u wil c dat i m persistent til i get an aswer..

Is there or isnt ther a alternative explanation to Gal 4:13-15 ???

If there is no answer now... can help do more indepth research... or check wif someone else? if got solid answer, den post it out...

den d ball wil b back to Mord's court... hehe....

Mord,,, hurry hurry... anymore more verses dat specifically states Pauls is an physical illness dat d otherpartyn cant rebutt??

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_de3C3Pkb8Q[/yt]

NinjaLite · April 20, 2010

huh? how come show Lady Gaga??

discussion over liao ah for my topic? aniwae its been quite informational so far..

x_oo_x... oh yes .. i wil answer ur question ... oni after if u can quote mi..wat did i mention directly / indirectly/ or implied dat gives u d idea i said Jesus gives people sickness.... ..

NinjaLite · April 20, 2010

Ahh..u r referring to tis ?? i didnt say Jesus perform signs to make Saul blind...

if u read... dat was a question... ending wif question marks... not a statement...

Question means i m asking ..... not making a statement.... aniwae d context was.... Saul eyes wer hurt during dat encounter.... could d wounds den hav linger and subsequently causes failures during Pauls old age....

Tis is totally different from wat u wer asking whether GOD gave ailment....

And if u r referin to wat i mentioned about Job.. i did state clearly dat Satan gave sickness to Job,... not GOD.....

seriously ...u do hav serious problems of misinterpreting other peoples postings.... root of so many quarrels ....

aniwae ..tanx Mord...tanx Eddy... i got wat i wanted... if got ani more info.. esp d my last question.... let mi kw..

yes yes... tis is Solid man.... tis is wat i wan...both sides presenting solid backing on views for tis one discussion...

Mord score 1 point... EddyMeng, so how does one answer Gal 4:13-15 ??

when Saul 1st encounter Jesus..wasnt he made blind? thus dat affliction was reali physical and not spiritual rite?
ACTS 9:9 ...

ChaoPuzzy1968 · April 20, 2010

Tis is totally different from wat u wer asking whether GOD gave ailment....

And if u r referin to wat i mentioned about Job.. i did state clearly dat Satan gave sickness to Job,... not GOD.....

read again:sian:

KJV Job 2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he

holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

KJV Exodus 11:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Yet will I bring one plague more upon Pharaoh, and upon Egypt; afterwards he will let you go hence: when he shall let you go, he shall surely thrust you out

hence altogether.

KJV James 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

KJV 2 Timothy 4:20 Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.

KJV Philippians 2:26 For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick.

27 For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.

KJV Philippians 3:1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.

2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.

3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

ChaoPuzzy1968 · April 20, 2010

Chapter 2 - Of God, and of the Holy Trinity

1) There is but one only De 6:4 1Co 8:4,6, living and true God, 1Th 1:9 Jer 10:10, who is infinite in being and perfection, Job 11:7,8,9 26:14, a most pure spirit, Joh 4:24, invisible, 1Ti 1:17, without body, parts, De 4:15,16 Joh 4:24 Lu 24:39, or passions, Ac 14:11,15, immutable, Jas 1:17 Mal 3:6, immense, 1Ki 8:27 Jer 23:23,24, eternal, Ps 90:2 1Ti 1:17, incomprehensible, Ps 145:3, almighty, Ge 17:1 Re 4:8, most wise, Ro 16:27, most holy, Isa 6:3 Re 4:8, most free, Ps 115:3, most absolute, Ex 3:14, working all things according to the counsel of his own immutable and most righteous will, Eph 1:11, for his own glory; Pr 16:4 Ro 11:36, most loving, 1Jo 4:8,16, gracious, merciful, longsuffering, abundant in goodness and truth, forgiving iniquity, transgression and sin; Ex 34:6,7, the rewarder of them that diligently seek him; Heb 11:6, and with most just and terrible in his judgments; Ne 9:32,33, hating all sin, Ps 5:5,6, and who will by no means clear the guilty. Na 1:2,3 Ex 34:7

2) God has all life, Joh 5:26, glory, Ac 7:2, goodness, Ps 119:68, blessedness, 1Ti 6:15, in and of himself; and is alone in and to himself all-sufficient, not standing in need of any of his creatures which he has made, Ac 17:24,25, not deriving any glory from them, Job 22:2,3, but only manifesting his own glory, in by, to, and upon them: He is the alone fountain of all being, of whom, through whom, and to whom, are all things; Ro 11:36, and has most sovereign dominion over them, to do by them, for them, or upon them, whatever he pleases. Re 4:11 1Ti 6:15 Da 4:25,35. In his sight all things are open and manifest; Heb 4:13, his knowledge is infinite, infallible, and independent upon the creature, Ro 11:33,34 Ps 147:5, so as nothing is to him contingent or uncertain. Ac 15:8 Eze 9:5. He is most holy in all his counsels, in all his works, and in all his commands. Ps 145:17 Ro 7:12.

To him is due from angels and men, and every other creature, whatever worship, service, or obedience, he is pleased to require of them. Re 5:12,13,14

3) In the unity of the Godhead there are three persons, of one substance, power, and eternity; God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. 1Jo 5:7 Mt 3:16,17 28:19 2Co 13:14

The Father is of none neither begotten nor proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten of the Father; Joh 1:14,18, the Holy Spirit eternally proceeding from the Father and the Son. Joh 15:26 Ga 4:6

Chapter 3 - Of God's Eternal Decree

1) God from all eternity did, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably ordain whatever comes to pass: Eph 1:11 Ro 11:33 Heb 6:17 Ro 9:15,18, yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, Jas 1:13,17 1Jo 1:5, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures, nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established. Ac 2:23 Mt 17:12 Ac 4:27,28 Joh 19:11 Pr 16:33

2) Although God knows whatever may or can come to pass upon all supposed conditions; Ac 15:18 1Sa 23:11,12 Mt 11:21,23, yet he has not decreed any thing because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions. Ro 9:11,13,16,18

3) By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels; 1Ti 5:21 Mt 25:41, are predestinated to everlasting life, and others foreordained to everlasting death. Ro 9:22,23 Eph 1:5,6 Pr 16:4

4) These angels and men, thus predestinated and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed; and their number is so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished. 2Ti 2:19 Joh 13:18

5) Those of mankind that are predestinated to life, God before the foundation of the world was laid, according to his eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of his will, has chosen in Christ to everlasting glory, Eph 1:4,9,11 Ro 8:30 2Ti 1:9 1Th 5:9, out of his mere free grace and love, without any foresight of faith or good works, or perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature, as conditions, or causes moving him to it; Ro 9:11,13,16 Eph 1:4,9, and all to the praise of his glorious grace. Eph 1:6,12

6) As God has appointed the elect to glory, so he has, by the eternal and most free purpose of his will, foreordained all the means to it. 1Pe 1:2 Eph 1:4,5 Eph 2:10 2Th 2:13. Therefore they who are elected being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ; 1Th 5:9,10 Tit 2:14, are effectually called to faith in Christ by his Spirit working in due season; are justified, adopted, sanctified, Ro 8:30 Eph 1:5 2Th 2:13, and kept by his power through faith to salvation. 1Pe 1:5. Neither are any other redeemed by Christ, effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only. Joh 17:9 Ro 8:28 Joh 6:64,65 Joh 10:26 8:47 1Jo 2:19

7) The rest of mankind, God was pleased, according to the unsearchable counsel of his own will, whereby he extends or withholds mercy as he pleases, for the glory of his sovereign power over his creatures, to pass by, and to ordain them to dishonour and wrath for their sin, to the praise of his glorious justice. Mt 11:25,26 Ro 9:17,18,21,22 2Ti 2:19,20 Jude 1:4 1Pe 2:8

8) The doctrine of this high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care, Ro 9:20 11:33 De 29:29, that men attending the will of God revealed in his word, and yielding obedience to it, may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their eternal election. 2Pe 1:10. So shall this doctrine afford matter of praise, reverence, and admiration of God, Eph 1:6 Ro 11:33 and of humility, diligence, and abundant consolation, to all that sincerely obey the Gospel. # Ro 11:5,6,20 2Pe 1:10 Ro 8:33 Lu 10:20

ref http://mb-soft.com/believe/txh/purconf.htm

EddyMeng · April 20, 2010

Its a totally different issue. GOD can heal ... dat is a fact... its also a fact dat GOD can choose to heal or not to heal , isnt it...

Look at Jesus while he walked this earth and you can see Godâ€™s heart. His heart and will is to heal ... Jesus is God's will in action

Facts: GOD can heals... Paul thru GODs powers, can also do miracle healing...

but it also remains dat not necessary Paul can heal himself esp since tis illness is a work
of Satan ..isnt it?

God's cure or healing far surpasses any illness

God can even raise the dead

Jus like Job...Satan gives illness to Job... but does GOD immediately heal Job ??? no rite?

Of course Job was not healed immediately as Satan has already Godâ€™s approval to test Job.

side note : satan has the right to go to Godâ€™s presence at that time, because of what Adam has lost when he committed high treason.

NOW, satan has no authority to go to the 3rd heaven to seek Godâ€™s audience because that place has already been bought back by Jesusâ€™s blood

Edited April 21, 2010 by EddyMeng

EddyMeng · April 21, 2010

2 Corinthians 11:23-29 (New King James Version)

23 Are they ministers of Christ?â€”I speak as a foolâ€”I am more: in labors more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequently, in deaths often. 24 From the Jews five times I received forty stripes minus one. 25 Three times I was beaten with rods; once I was stoned; three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I have been in the deep; 26 in journeys often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils of my own countrymen, in perils of the Gentiles, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; 27 in weariness and toil, in sleeplessness often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakednessâ€” 28 besides the other things, what comes upon me daily: my deep concern for all the churches. 29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is made to stumble, and I do not burn with indignation?

NOT a word about having physical illness found here

EddyMeng · April 21, 2010

As the subject states: what do you think is the greatest sin in all the world?

anyone to start the ball rolling

boh lang huh

EddyMeng · April 21, 2010

Paul's Thorn in the Flesh - youtube

[yt]www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BprQ395Mw8&feature=related[/yt]

edwardlong · April 21, 2010

I think this discussion or debate will never end.

YK, its either you have a good opinion of the Lord or you don't have.

Both sides can present 1st class thesis....but in the end...it is knowing who Jesus is that let you reign in life.

Knowing theology is not the same as knowing the Lord. And my knowing is the same as "when adam know eve, eve conceive. It is the intimacy of knowing Jesus.

Use the peace within you to judge on whether the speaker is correct on what he says on paul's thorn in the flesh. You will not get any revelation when you use your intellect and engineering know how when you feed on the Word.

(engineer talking to another engineer)

EddyMeng · April 21, 2010

I think this discussion or debate will never end.

YK, its either you have a good opinion of the Lord or you don't have.

Both sides can present 1st class thesis....but in the end...it is knowing who Jesus is that let you reign in life.

Knowing theology is not the same as knowing the Lord. And my knowing is the same as "when adam know eve, eve conceive. It is the intimacy of knowing Jesus.

Use the peace within you to judge on whether the speaker is correct on what he says on paul's thorn in the flesh. You will not get any revelation when you use your intellect and engineering know how when you feed on the Word.

(engineer talking to another engineer)

Zac ... looks like you are becoming the thorn in someone's flesh now

the moral of the story is : dun "know" someone too well ... lest one get pregnant

ChaoPuzzy1968 · April 21, 2010

I think this discussion or debate will never end.

YK, its either you have a good opinion of the Lord or you don't have.

Both sides can present 1st class thesis....but in the end...it is knowing who Jesus is that let you reign in life.

Knowing theology is not the same as knowing the Lord. And my knowing is the same as "when adam know eve, eve conceive. It is the intimacy of knowing Jesus.

Use the peace within you to judge on whether the speaker is correct on what he says on paul's thorn in the flesh. You will not get any revelation when you use your intellect and engineering know how when you feed on the Word.

(engineer talking to another engineer)

:angel::thumb:

THIS IS VERY GOOD .....( are you going o withdraw your statement again?)

Edited April 21, 2010 by ChaoPuzzy1968

ChaoPuzzy1968 · April 21, 2010