Bikers Theological Discussion

edwardlong · March 21, 2010

withdrawn :)

Edited March 23, 2010 by edwardlong

ChaoPuzzy1968 · March 21, 2010

i do agree with all three guys.

Dispensation is a method to understand the "plan" of our Father so that we know which era that we fall into.

Being a new creation, we should walk this life yoked together with our big brother Jesus....to be lead by the HS...knowing that when we are under the grace era, we have that unfair unadvantage the world doesn't have.

This is what eddy trying to say too....am i right eddy ?

whoa your church so good got internet

NinjaLite · March 21, 2010

haha..no lah... interestn to see science nd histroy documentaries .... like how explain d 10 plagues cld hv occured.. 1 explanation was dat d mouldy food happen during severe famine...jews hv tradition dat 1st born get double portion of food...thus get double poisoned n explained y 1st born all die....

but ur line abt "heaping on themselves teachers" does resonate ...in tis times isnt it.. dats y they r so many doctrines , preachers dat sounds more like motivational coach( > 1000 per hour, phew!!)...

so conclusion is? Dispensationalism is correct but must b known its just 1 of d methods ...and its not necessary for salvation.... infact all other methods r NOT necessary , but understanding d methods can help in putting into order "self" life, career, biz, relationship etc.. ..isit dat way to explain??

x_00_x · March 21, 2010

haha..no lah... interestn to see science nd histroy documentaries .... like how explain d 10 plagues cld hv occured.. 1 explanation was dat d mouldy food happen during severe famine...jews hv tradition dat 1st born get double portion of food...thus get double poisoned n explained y 1st born all die....

but ur line abt "heaping on themselves teachers" does resonate ...in tis times isnt it.. dats y they r so many doctrines , preachers dat sounds more like motivational coach( > 1000 per hour, phew!!)...

so conclusion is? Dispensationalism is correct but must b known its just 1 of d methods ...and its not necessary for salvation.... infact all other methods r NOT necessary , but understanding d methods can help in putting into order "self" life, career, biz, relationship etc.. ..isit dat way to explain??

In which case YK, this will makes you a "methodist", not a Believer. This is what Jesus told Thomas, which I believed is also meant for us --->

"Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

The plan of the Father is very simple, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to defrost it. And it surely doesn't requires the method of 'dispensation' to explain it either.

man sin, the law requires judgment. God the Father who is also the judge shew mercy and grace. man sin time and time again, and they even claimed they can obey God's law completely. man fell again and again. God came down in the form of human flesh to take this judgment once and for all so that sin will be dealt with once and for all and whoever that believes in Jesus will be saved.

God's plan ?? in short we screw up big time. God says let Him do it from now on. We don't even know how to follow the "law" nor "commandments". God says listen to my Holy Spirit.

God's plan ?? ---> For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

The Gospel is simple, we are making it complicated.

ChaoPuzzy1968 · March 21, 2010

The Gospel is simple, we are making it complicated.

:clap:

edwardlong · March 21, 2010

withdrawn :)

Edited March 23, 2010 by edwardlong

edwardlong · March 21, 2010

withdrawn :)

Edited March 23, 2010 by edwardlong

EddyMeng · March 21, 2010

dispensation is just a method but not THE method. good to know but not need for salvation

of course, it is not a matter for salvation

i like how Bro Edward phrase it:

Dispensation is a method to understand the "plan" of our Father so that we know which era that we fall into.

Dispensationalism takes Godâ€™s word literally. It solves many apparent contradictions. Dispensationalism answers many doctrinal heresies. If you understand dispensationalism you will not be caught up in many false doctrines. You will understand that much false doctrine comes from trying to obey scriptural commands that were given to people of another age but are not given to the New Testament believer.

When i post this hor ...

i was referring to my 15 years in a "law-man" church. That church is so performance orientated

i went "church hunting" for 3 years and most Sundays then ... i have 2 services ... one in the "law-man" church and one to visit other church.

Been to many churches, BIG, small, mega ... etc; and been praying for the HS to lead me to a good church and to help me find answers to my many wrong teachings that i have been taught. These "wrong teachings" are very performance orientated and on my obedience to obey the bible ... based on that denomination's "closed-door teaching"

At least, to me i was shown dispensation in a way that i found THE answer that corrected my initial wrong teaching - like the HID that lights the dark Malaysian highway.

Anyway, it took me many courage to change church - from a church that i almost knew everyone as i was there for 15 years ... to a church that i only know one person (which is my ex-colleague, who loan me CDs) which is my second church - my current church

And hope that by my sharing of how i was lead and when i say it is THE method ... it is THE method ... at least that is true for me - Dispensationalism answers my many doctrinal heresies

My ex "law-man" church loves quoting Jesus's word from the gospel as if those word are for our dispensation and demand from their members to do and obey them ... machiam like "do these things, because you are a Christian. if not hor your salvation is at stake"

they are not even sure of whether their member are going heaven or not, it is all base on their works ...

hope by my testimony will help some.

Shalom,

Eddy

Edited March 21, 2010 by EddyMeng

ChaoPuzzy1968 · March 21, 2010

of course, it is not a matter for salvation

... machiam like "do these things, because you are a Christian. if not hor your salvation is at stake"
they are not even sure of whether their member are going heaven or not, it is all base on their works ...

hope by my testimony will help some.

Shalom,
Eddy

that's why "by law" fail, it was "by Grace" The HID works .....do you know "by Law" The HID" is not LTA approve , it was by Grace before inspection...

that is why any method without the guidance of the HS is nothing...but by the guidance by the HS...everthing is possible.

luan luan lai also can....look at timothy ...he 'anyoldhow' quote scripture... he still happily doing G-D work ...haben got bang by cement truck yet what:sian:

ChaoPuzzy1968 · March 21, 2010

but the problem with churches these days is that they jumble up everything together...law...grace... and dunno what else.

it not the church lah bro ...how much money did you spend on books and cd

Jesus had put the Law to an end...not so much of a necessity for salvation as Jesus is our Salvation.

Jesus did not ended the law lah.....he fufil the law lah......

while the law may not be applicable to us as the jew

but it does not mean Jack Neo can keep screwing wendy..... and still call himself a christian hor

it is the love of Christ that compels the man to observed the law

I don't think eddy meant it to be a law or a method. If you come from a law church, then the Dispensation thingy would certainly be an eye opener.

IT not law church ...is blur church....explain thing aslo explain half way...but ppl are also to blame ....lazy to thing for themselve.

aiyah the dispensation that was explain was not clear lah....if you interested go read "buswell"

My sis in law once told me she studied the letters to the Hebrews...and she told me its in old testament.

you know bible and sister is like cars and woman \

it's not in the old testicles , it's in the apocrapha aka undies

Edited March 21, 2010 by ChaoPuzzy1968

edwardlong · March 21, 2010

withdrawn :)

Edited March 23, 2010 by edwardlong

EddyMeng · March 21, 2010

that's why "by law" fail, it was "by Grace" The HID works .....do you know "by Law" The HID" is not LTA approve , it was by Grace before inspection...

Yes a good summary ... "by law" fail, it was "by Grace"

The HID is not LTA approve, but when you are in the dark malaysian twisty roads ... you will experience the effects and "praise God" for such invention

btw, you have not change to "Holy Induction Daylight" yet hor ... u "Juz follow Law" type huh

ChaoPuzzy1968 · March 21, 2010

Yes a good summary ... "by law" fail, it was "by Grace"

The HID is not LTA approve, but when you are in the dark malaysian twisty roads ... you will experience the effects and "praise God" for such invention

btw, you have not change to "Holy Induction Daylight" yet hor ... u "Juz follow Law" type huh

i was given better ........night sight and v-strom:thumb:

EddyMeng · March 22, 2010

i was given better ........night sight and v-strom:thumb:

you got "cat eyes" is it

Law -- From Sinai until Christ

Grace -- From Pentecost until the Rapture

Have you any other notes to shed illumination other than "Dispensationalism"? if so pls post them here ... thanks

Edited April 8, 2010 by EddyMeng

EddyMeng · March 22, 2010

but it does not mean Jack Neo can keep screwing wendy..... and still call himself a christian hor

i notice u love to quote "Jack and the bean stalk" so much.

u deprived of bed time stories in your childhood time huh

NinjaLite · March 22, 2010

Question.....

Are we then Compelled to accept GRACE ?

Is life reali so straight-cut defined as Grace and Law? eg when one sin ...eg hehe smoking sin ....( i know i kw lah..jus quoting 1 non-controversial example haha)

During smoking, does one reali think in his mind,,,oh i hv broken d Law....

or reali hv to meditate until can automatically say .."now i m under Grace"....

Is ther reali such a difference ?? Or is d difference exagerated ??

eg scenario.. After d Evil cat smokes...d cat can either goes:

1. go repent... and pray for forgiveness..

2. meditate d " i m under grace, and righteouness as unto Jesus"

is ther reali a difference btw these 2 supposingly old Law method and new grace method??

Just a note to all... my definition of a Law base church does not mean a church that preaches all the time to follow the ten commandments. Even in our own group, if you are compelled to do evangelism just because the Word says that we are to preach the gospel , then you have just fallen under Law.

Woo hoo..... i learned a new word today...compelled...thanks to MC.

NinjaLite · March 22, 2010

Bed time stories?

Wendy oni appears in Peter Pan

X_00_x, so u disagree wif Dispensationalism theory?

ChaoPuzzy1968 · March 22, 2010

you got "cat eyes" is it

Law -- From Sinai until Christ
Grace -- From Pentecost until the Rapture

Have you any other notes to shed illumatation other than "Dispensationalism"? if so pls post them here ... thanks

have ...you will re-present "Dispensation" and how does it work in understanding the work of G-D this time properly (IMHO)

Start with the general intro to the Bible....on the old Classification old test , Major , Minor , Prophets ..etc ....new test... 4 gospel , act , epitles and revelation .... as one method

then corelate to the first despensation(management) of God ... the creation

2nd depensation (flood) repopulation of man

3rd dispen(abraham)

etc

it's easier to see as another method to help rather as THE method to help

cheers

mc

i notice u love to quote "Jack and the bean stalk" so much.
u deprived of bed time stories in your childhood time huh

Ha Nor, har Nor

ChaoPuzzy1968 · March 22, 2010

Question.....

Are we then Compelled to accept GRACE ?

Is life reali so straight-cut defined as Grace and Law? eg when one sin ...eg hehe smoking sin ....( i know i kw lah..jus quoting 1 non-controversial example haha)

During smoking, does one reali think in his mind,,,oh i hv broken d Law....
or reali hv to meditate until can automatically say .."now i m under Grace"....

Is ther reali such a difference ?? Or is d difference exagerated ??

eg scenario.. After d Evil cat smokes...d cat can either goes:

1. go repent... and pray for forgiveness..

2. meditate d " i m under grace, and righteouness as unto Jesus"

is ther reali a difference btw these 2 supposingly old Law method and new grace method??

Just a note to all... my definition of a Law base church does not mean a church that preaches all the time to follow the ten commandments. Even in our own group, if you are compelled to do evangelism just because the Word says that we are to preach the gospel , then you have just fallen under Law.

Woo hoo..... i learned a new word today...compelled...thanks to MC.

look at it this way Compell is not a matter of choice is all naturel

When your bladder is full do you have a choice not to pee ?

and if you have dieroear do you have a choice not to 5hit?...thus it's compell

old law ask you to look and other people and judge them and force and coherce by fear to obey

new love enable us to look within and renew ourselve ...by choice to obey in love..

it is now by love ...... not by fear ......that we obey....

x_00_x · March 22, 2010

you got "cat eyes" is it

Law -- From Sinai until Christ
Grace -- From Pentecost until the Rapture

Have you any other notes to shed illumatation other than "Dispensationalism"? if so pls post them here ... thanks

The Ten Commandments - was given at Mt Sinai. The Law existed long ago. The Law does not cease to exist in Christ, rather Christ is the end of the law because He fulfills it and satisfy the righteous requirements and any one who is IN CHRIST will not be unjustified.

Grace was already given since the days of Adam. The effect of it could not be seen nor felt so tangibly because the ten commandments was not given yet. Listen and take heed, "I desire mercy and not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the guiltless."

That quote above is taken from Hosea, God told Hosea to love Gomer, He did not tell Hosea about His methods of 'Dispensation of Grace". Therefore your own revelation should remain as yours. If you want to share it, share it. Don't enforce it to the point it becomes THE METHOD for you and others. Share with us the One that gave you this revelation, I am sure He will give it to us as we draw closer to Him.

x_00_x · March 22, 2010

Bed time stories?

Wendy oni appears in Peter Pan

X_00_x, so u disagree wif Dispensationalism theory?

I disagree with people calling it THE METHOD. There is only ONE METHOD, and His name is Jesus. He has His Holy Spirit to guide us and tutor us, not some theory. We can look at other's testimony, whether that work or not is dependent on how the Holy Spirit deems fit.

We negate Grace when we don't walk by faith when we ought to. We have receive the knowledge of the truth, and to quote 2 Timothy "when I call to remembrance the genuine faith that is in you, which dwelt first in your grandmother Lois and your mother Eunice, and I am persuaded is in you also.

Therefore I remind you to stir up the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands."

NinjaLite · March 22, 2010

hmm, ok then i always return to d basic question...

Is negating the Grace then forfeiting one salvation?

If not then its also not essential ... though beneficial

I disagree with people calling it THE METHOD. There is only ONE METHOD, and His name is Jesus. He has His Holy Spirit to guide us and tutor us, not some theory. We can look at other's testimony, whether that work or not is dependent on how the Holy Spirit deems fit.

We negate Grace when we don't walk by faith when we ought to. We have receive the knowledge of the truth, and to quote 2 Timothy "when I call to remembrance the genuine faith that is in you, which dwelt first in your grandmother Lois and your mother Eunice, and I am persuaded is in you also.
Therefore I remind you to stir up the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands."

ChaoPuzzy1968 · March 22, 2010

hmm, ok then i always return to d basic question...
Is negating the Grace then forfeiting one salvation?

If not then its also not essential ... though beneficial

u understand your question or not or do you need to defrost your chicken:angel:?

edwardlong · March 22, 2010

withdrawn :)

Edited March 23, 2010 by edwardlong

x_00_x · March 22, 2010

hmm, ok then i always return to d basic question...
Is negating the Grace then forfeiting one salvation?

If not then its also not essential ... though beneficial

Negating the Grace that was given to us does not forfeit our salvation. The Law is very much in existence now as it was from the beginning. The difference is, under Grace you are protected from the curse of the law.

Having said that, knowing that what you shouldn't do but you done it anyway and expect Grace to be in your life, then in that case you have just negated the protection of Grace in that area.

Take Jack Neo's case for illustration purpose. If he knew that by committing adultery and expect Grace to be of effect in his live. Then he has just void the power of Grace in his mistakes. However, on the assumption that he committed adultery but truly 'changes his mind' and submit to God his mistakes and draws nearer to God for help (as in looking and actively seeking out Jesus), the pardon or the forgiveness that he received from God is called Forgiveness. However, if God choose to prosper him and turn things around for him so much so that he prosper in any areas of his life (health, wealth, relationship with his wife), then that is called Grace.

Why Grace is essential ? It will prosper you both in Soul and Spirit and in your "life on earth". Without Grace, you are as good as dead because the curse of the law will be upon you.

So how do you ensure that this Grace is always upon you ? Keep on feeding on Jesus, learning about Him, everything about Him and trusting on the His complete powers upon your life. So then in case when you fall, you are under Grace.

You may think that in that case, then Jack Neo can still happily go and sleep with another girl and still be under Grace. The answer is NO. These are the points

- When you know its something that you shouldn't do, and still do it. And expect nothing but complete forgiveness. Then you are negating the power of Grace.

- His actions merely speaks of his emptiness within him that instead of filling himself with Jesus, he went to satisfy the lust of the flesh. But if indeed he received something much better then expected from God, then it is Grace bestowed upon him from God.

In any case, the promise is that when you behold the glory of Jesus as if it is in the mirror day after day, you will be transformed into His likeness from glory to glory. Which means to say, that the things which you do not want to do, will fall off. And you will continue to do things in accordance with the Father's will for you, and you will not break any law.

What happens then when you fall? --> keep on looking to Jesus.

What happens if you fall again --> keep on looking to Jesus

and one day, you will not fall anymore.

What about Grace then ? --> don't expect it, it is dispense according to the Father's will.

How can i ensure I will get it ? --> keep on looking to Jesus.

What if ?? --> stop asking from this point, because you are clearly not walking in faith. So just keep on looking at Jesus and no matter how many times you fall, keep on looking. The promise if that you will be transformed. The question is

ARE YOU LOOKING TO JESUS.

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