Bikers Theological Discussion

[ChaoPuzzy1968]

yap ... that is the problem of Lojak Christian who wants to keep "followed meticulously all Christian teachings..." without realisation which are the verse that are applicable to the Church Age.

 

"followed meticulously all Christian teachings..." ???

 

Paul would recommend removing the phallus for those clowns

Gal 5:12 I wish those who unsettle {and} confuse you would [go all the way and] cut themselves off!

 

:thumb::thumb:

[ChaoPuzzy1968]

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9sPTR-nMds[/yt]

[ChaoPuzzy1968]

*Emperor Karl (Charlemagne) in 782 had 4500 Saxons, unwilling to

convert to Christianity, beheaded. [DO30]

 

*Peasants of Steding (Germany) unwilling to pay suffocating church

taxes between 5,000 and 11,000 men, women and children slain

5/27/1234 near Altenesch/Germany. [WW223]

 

*Battle of Belgrad 1456 80,000 Turks slaughtered. [DO235]

 

*15th century Poland 1019 churches and 17987 villages plundered by

Knights of the Order. Victims unknown. [DO30]

 

*16th and 17th century Ireland. English troops "pacified and

civilized" Ireland, where only Gaelic "wild Irish", "unreasonable

beasts lived without any knowledge of God or good manners, in common

of their goods, cattle, women, children and every other thing." One of

the more successful soldiers, a certain Humphrey Gilbert, half-brother

of Sir Walter Raleigh, ordered that "the heddes of all those (of what

sort soever thei were) which were killed in the daie, should be cutte

off from their bodies... and should bee laied on the ground by eche

side of the waie", which effort to civilize the Irish indeed caused

"greate terrour to the people when thei sawe the heddes of their dedde

fathers, brothers, children, kinsfolke, and freinds on the grounde".

 

Tens of thousands of Gaelic Irish fell victim to the carnage. [sH99,

225]

 

Crusades (1095-1291)

 

*First Crusade 1095 on command of pope Urban II. [WW11-41]

 

*Semlin/Hungary 6/24/96 thousands slain. Wieselburg/Hungary 6/12/96

thousands. [WW23] *9/9/96-9/26/96 Nikaia, Xerigordon (then turkish),

thousands respectively. [WW25-27]

 

*Until Jan 1098 a total of 40 capital cities and 200 castles conquered

(number of slain unknown) [WW30]

 

*After 6/3/98 Antiochia (then turkish) conquered, between 10,000 and

60,000 slain. 6/28/98 100,000 Turks (incl. women & children) killed.

[WW32-35]

 

Here the Christians "did no other harm to the women found in [the

enemy's] tents - save that they ran their lances through their

bellies," according to Christian chronicler Fulcher of Chartres.

[EC60]

 

*Marra (Maraat an-numan) 12/11/98 thousands killed. Because of the

subsequent famine "the already stinking corpses of the enemies were

eaten by the Christians" said chronicler Albert Aquensis. [WW36]

 

*Jerusalem conquered 7/15/1099 more than 60,000 victims (jewish,

muslim, men, women, children). [WW37-40]

 

(In the words of one witness "there [in front of Solomon's temple]

was such a carnage that our people were wading ankle-deep in the blood

of our foes", and after that "happily and crying for joy our people

marched to our Saviour's tomb, to honour it and to pay off our debt of

gratitude")

 

*The Archbishop of Tyre, eye-witness, wrote "It was impossible to

look upon the vast numbers of the slain without horror; everywhere lay

fragments of human bodies, and the very ground was covered with the

blood of the slain. It was not alone the spectacle of headless bodies

and mutilated limbs strewn in all directions that roused the horror of

all who looked upon them. Still more dreadful was it to gaze upon the

victors themselves, dripping with blood from head to foot, an ominous

sight which brought terror to all who met them. It is reported that

within the Temple enclosure alone about ten thousand infidels

perished." [TG79]

 

*Christian chronicler Eckehard of Aura noted that "even the following

summer in all of palestine the air was polluted by the stench of

decomposition". One million victims of the first crusade alone. [WW41]

 

*Battle of Askalon, 8/12/1099. 200,000 heathens slaughtered "in the

name of Our Lord Jesus Christ". [WW45]

 

*Fourth crusade 4/12/1204 Constantinople sacked, number of victims

unknown, numerous thousands, many of them Christian. [WW141-148]

 

*Rest of Crusades in less detail until the fall of Akkon 1291

probably 20 million victims (in the Holy land and Arab/Turkish areas

alone). [WW224]

 

Note All figures according to contemporary (Christian) chroniclers.

 

ref http://notachristian.org/christianatrocities.html

[EddyMeng]

[yt]

[/yt]

 

R u good enuf to earn a place in heaven ?

[edwardlong]

[yt]

[/yt]

 

R u good enuf to earn a place in heaven ?

 

woah...this is the best video i have seen so far...

[ChaoPuzzy1968]

woah...this is the best video i have seen so far...

 

this should be shown yesternite:angel:

[ChaoPuzzy1968]

*Already in 385 C.E. the first Christians, the Spanish Priscillianus

and six followers, were beheaded for heresy in Trier/Germany [DO26]

 

*Manichaean heresy a crypto-Christian sect decent enough to practice

birth control (and thus not as irresponsible as faithful Catholics)

was exterminated in huge campaigns all over the Roman empire between

372 C.E. and 444 C.E. Numerous thousands of victims. [NC]

 

*Albigensians the first Crusade intended to slay other Christians.

[DO29]

 

The Albigensians (cathars = Christians allegedly that have all rarely

sucked) viewed themselves as good Christians, but would not accept

roman Catholic rule, and taxes, and prohibition of birth control. [NC]

 

Begin of violence on command of pope Innocent III (greatest single

pre-nazi mass murderer) in 1209. Beziérs (today France) 7/22/1209

destroyed, all the inhabitants were slaughtered. Victims (including

Catholics refusing to turn over their heretic neighbours and friends)

20,000-70,000. [WW179-181]

 

*Carcassonne 8/15/1209, thousands slain. Other cities followed.

[WW181]

 

*subsequent 20 years of war until nearly all Cathars (probably half

the population of the Languedoc, today southern France) were

exterminated. [WW183]

 

*After the war ended (1229) the Inquisition was founded 1232 to search

and destroy surviving/hiding heretics. Last Cathars burned at the

stake 1324. [WW183] *Estimated one million victims (cathar heresy

alone), [WW183]

 

*Other heresies Waldensians, Paulikians, Runcarians, Josephites, and

many others. Most of these sects exterminated, (I believe some

Waldensians live today, yet they had to endure 600 years of

persecution) I estimate at least hundred thousand victims (including

the Spanish inquisition but excluding victims in the New World).

 

*Spanish Inquisitor Torquemada alone allegedly responsible for 10,220

burnings. [DO28]

 

*John Huss, a critic of papal infallibility and indulgences, was

burned at the stake in 1415. [LI475-522]

 

*University professor B.Hubmaier burned at the stake 1538 in Vienna.

[DO59]

 

*Giordano Bruno, Dominican monk, after having been incarcerated for

seven years, was burned at the stake for heresy on the Campo dei Fiori

(Rome) on 2/17/1600.

 

ref http://notachristian.org/christianatrocities.html

[edwardlong]

this should be shown yesternite:angel:

 

ya lor.....so i blame it on eddy for not bringing it earlier...

 

[EddyMeng]

ya lor.....so i blame it on eddy for not bringing it earlier...

 

 

good things muz keep for the last mah

[ChaoPuzzy1968]

*from the beginning of Christianity to 1484 probably more than several

thousand.

 

*in the era of witch hunting (1484-1750) according to modern scholars

several hundred thousand (about 80% female) burned at the stake or

hanged. [WV]

 

*incomplete list of documented cases

 

The Burning of Witches - A Chronicle of the Burning Times

 

Religious Wars

 

*15th century Crusades against Hussites, thousands slain. [DO30]

 

*1538 pope Paul III declared Crusade against apostate England and all

English as slaves of Church (fortunately had not power to go into

action). [DO31]

 

*1568 Spanish Inquisition Tribunal ordered extermination of 3 million

rebels in (then Spanish) Netherlands. Thousands were actually slain.

[DO31]

 

*1572 In France about 20,000 Huguenots were killed on command of pope

Pius V. Until 17th century 200,000 flee. [DO31]

 

*17th century Catholics slay Gaspard de Coligny, a Protestant leader.

After murdering him, the Catholic mob mutilated his body, "cutting off

his head, his hands, and his genitals... and then dumped him into the

river [...but] then, deciding that it was not worthy of being food for

the fish, they hauled it out again [... and] dragged what was left ...

to the gallows of Montfaulcon, 'to be meat and carrion for maggots and

crows'." [sH191]

 

*17th century Catholics sack the city of Magdeburg/Germany roughly

30,000 Protestants were slain. "In a single church fifty women were

found beheaded," reported poet Friedrich Schiller, "and infants still

sucking the breasts of their lifeless mothers." [sH191]

 

*17th century 30 years' war (Catholic vs. Protestant) at least 40% of

population decimated, mostly in Germany. [DO31-32]

 

Jews

 

*Already in the 4th and 5th centuries synagogues were burned by

Christians. Number of Jews slain unknown.

 

*In the middle of the fourth century the first synagogue was destroyed

on command of bishop Innocentius of Dertona in Northern Italy. The

first synagogue known to have been burned down was near the river

Euphrat, on command of the bishop of Kallinikon in the year 388.

[DA450]

 

*17. Council of Toledo 694 Jews were enslaved, their property

confiscated, and their children forcibly baptized. [DA454]

 

*The Bishop of Limoges (France) in 1010 had the cities' Jews, who

would not convert to Christianity, expelled or killed. [DA453]

 

*First Crusade Thousands of Jews slaughtered 1096, maybe 12.000

total. Places Worms 5/18/1096, Mainz 5/27/1096 (1100 persons),

Cologne, Neuss, Altenahr, Wevelinghoven, Xanten, Moers, Dortmund,

Kerpen, Trier, Metz, Regensburg, Prag and others (All locations

Germany except Metz/France, Prag/Czech) [EJ]

 

*Second Crusade 1147. Several hundred Jews were slain in Ham, Sully,

Carentan, and Rameru (all locations in France). [WW57]

 

*Third Crusade English Jewish communities sacked 1189/90. [DO40]

*Fulda/Germany 1235 34 Jewish men and women slain. [DO41]

 

*1257, 1267 Jewish communities of London, Canterbury, Northampton,

Lincoln, Cambridge, and others exterminated. [DO41]

 

*1290 in Bohemian (Poland) allegedly 10,000 Jews killed. [DO41]

 

*1337 Starting in Deggendorf/Germany a Jew-killing craze reaches 51

towns in Bavaria, Austria, Poland. [DO41]

 

*1348 All Jews of Basel/Switzerland and Strasbourg/France (two

thousand) burned. [DO41]

 

*1349 In more than 350 towns in Germany all Jews murdered, mostly

burned alive (in this one year more Jews were killed than Christians

in 200 years of ancient Roman persecution of Christians). [DO42]

 

*1389 In Prag 3,000 Jews were slaughtered. [DO42]

 

*1391 Seville's Jews killed (Archbishop Martinez leading). 4,000 were

slain, 25,000 sold as slaves. [DA454] Their identification was made

easy by the brightly colored "badges of shame" that all jews above the

age of ten had been forced to wear.

 

*1492 In the year Columbus set sail to conquer a New World, more than

150,000 Jews were expelled from Spain, many died on their way

6/30/1492. [MM470-476]

 

*1648 Chmielnitzki massacres In Poland about 200,000 Jews were slain.

[DO43]

 

(I feel sick ...) this goes on and on, century after century, right

into the kilns of Auschwitz.

 

 

ref http://notachristian.org/christianatrocities.html

[EddyMeng]

The Burning of Witches - A Chronicle of the Burning Times

 

How i wish .... that we can see "The Burning of Witches" today

[ChaoPuzzy1968]

How i wish .... that we can see "The Burning of Witches" today

 

sanyo sanyo:faint:

 

anyway since you insist......

 

http://www.uruknet.info/uruknet-images/marw3.jpg

 

http://www.uruknet.info/uruknet-images/marw5.jpg

 

ref http://www.uruknet.info/?p=24922

Edited August 16, 2010 by ChaoPuzzy1968

[EddyMeng]

sanyo sanyo:faint:

 

anyway since you insist......

 

dun lah ... sanyo ... also a promoter of china wine

 

the witches i referring to are the bewitchers that promote Deadly Galatianism

 

Gal 3:1 O YOU poor {and} silly {and} thoughtless {and} unreflecting {and} senseless Galatians! Who has fascinated {or} bewitched {or} cast a spell over you, unto whom--right before your very eyes--Jesus Christ (the Messiah) was openly {and} graphically set forth {and} portrayed as crucified?

[EddyMeng]

The following is a link to download Rev Reuben's anointed sermons from Paya Lebar Methodist Church.

 

http://www.box.net/shared/uzrv6pnyo8

 

be blessed

[ChaoPuzzy1968]

*Beginning with Columbus (a former slave trader and would-be Holy

Crusader) the conquest of the New World began, as usual understood as

a means to propagate Christianity.

 

*Within hours of landfall on the first inhabited island he encountered

in the Caribbean, Columbus seized and carried off six native people

who, he said, "ought to be good servants ... [and] would easily be

made Christians, because it seemed to me that they belonged to no

religion." [sH200]

 

While Columbus described the Indians as "idolators" and "slaves, as

many as [the Crown] shall order," his pal Michele de Cuneo, Italian

nobleman, referred to the natives as "beasts" because "they eat when

they are hungry," and made love "openly whenever they feel like it."

[sH204-205]

 

*On every island he set foot on, Columbus planted a cross, "making the

declarations that are required" - the requerimiento - to claim the

ownership for his Catholic patrons in Spain. And "nobody objected." If

the Indians refused or delayed their acceptance (or understanding),

the requerimiento continued

 

"I certify to you that, with the help of God, we shall powerfully

enter in your country and shall make war against you ... and shall

subject you to the yoke and obedience of the Church ... and shall do

you all mischief that we can, as to vassals who do not obey and refuse

to receive their lord and resist and contradict him." [sH66]

 

*Likewise in the words of John Winthrop, first governor of

Massachusetts Bay Colony "justifieinge the undertakeres of the

intended Plantation in New England ... to carry the Gospell into those

parts of the world, ... and to raise a Bulworke against the kingdome

of the Ante-Christ." [sH235]

 

*In average two thirds of the native population were killed by

colonist-imported smallpox before violence began. This was a great

sign of "the marvelous goodness and providence of God" to the

Christians of course, e.g. the Governor of the Massachusetts Bay

Colony wrote in 1634, as "for the natives, they are near all dead of

the smallpox, so as the Lord hath cleared our title to what we

possess." [sH109,238]

 

*On Hispaniola alone, on Columbus visits, the native population

(Arawak), a rather harmless and happy people living on an island of

abundant natural resources, a literal paradise, soon mourned 50,000

dead. [sH204]

 

*The surviving Indians fell victim to rape, murder, enslavement and

spanish raids.

 

*As one of the culprits wrote "So many Indians died that they could

not be counted, all through the land the Indians lay dead everywhere.

The stench was very great and pestiferous." [sH69]

 

*The indian chief Hatuey fled with his people but was captured and

burned alive. As "they were tying him to the stake a Franciscan friar

urged him to take Jesus to his heart so that his soul might go to

heaven, rather than descend into hell. Hatuey replied that if heaven

was where the Christians went, he would rather go to hell." [sH70]

 

*What happened to his people was described by an eyewitness

 

"The Spaniards found pleasure in inventing all kinds of odd cruelties

... They built a long gibbet, long enough for the toes to touch the

ground to prevent strangling, and hanged thirteen [natives] at a time

in honor of Christ Our Saviour and the twelve Apostles... then, straw

was wrapped around their torn bodies and they were burned alive."

[sH72]

 

Or, on another occasion

 

"The Spaniards cut off the arm of one, the leg or hip of another, and

from some their heads at one stroke, like butchers cutting up beef and

mutton for market. Six hundred, including the cacique, were thus slain

like brute beasts...Vasco [de Balboa] ordered forty of them to be torn

to pieces by dogs." [sH83]

 

*The "island's population of about eight million people at the time of

Columbus's arrival in 1492 already had declined by a third to a half

before the year 1496 was out." Eventually all the island's natives

were exterminated, so the Spaniards were "forced" to import slaves

from other caribbean islands, who soon suffered the same fate. Thus

"the Caribbean's millions of native people [were] thereby effectively

liquidated in barely a quarter of a century". [sH72-73] "In less than

the normal lifetime of a single human being, an entire culture of

millions of people, thousands of years resident in their homeland, had

been exterminated." [sH75]

 

*"And then the Spanish turned their attention to the mainland of

Mexico and Central America. The slaughter had barely begun. The

exquisite city of Tenochtitlán [Mexico city] was next." [sH75]

 

*Cortez, Pizarro, De Soto and hundreds of other spanish conquistadors

likewise sacked southern and mesoamerican civilizations in the name of

Christ (De Soto also sacked Florida). *"When the 16th century ended,

some 200,000 Spaniards had moved to the Americas. By that time

probably more than 60,000,000 natives were dead." [sH95]

 

Of course no different were the founders of what today is the US of

America.

 

*Although none of the settlers would have survived winter without

native help, they soon set out to expel and exterminate the Indians.

Warfare among (north American) Indians was rather harmless, in

comparison to European standards, and was meant to avenge insults

rather than conquer land. In the words of some of the pilgrim fathers

"Their Warres are farre less bloudy...", so that there usually was "no

great slawter of nether side". Indeed, "they might fight seven yeares

and not kill seven men." What is more, the Indians usually spared

women and children. [sH111]

 

*In the spring of 1612 some English colonists found life among the

(generally friendly and generous) natives attractive enough to leave

Jamestown - "being idell ... did runne away unto the Indyans," - to

live among them (that probably solved a sex problem).

 

"Governor Thomas Dale had them hunted down and executed 'Some he

apointed (sic) to be hanged Some burned Some to be broken upon wheles,

others to be staked and some shott to deathe'." [sH105] Of course

these elegant measures were restricted for fellow englishmen "This

was the treatment for those who wished to act like Indians. For those

who had no choice in the matter, because they were the native people

of Virginia" methods were different "when an Indian was accused by an

Englishman of stealing a cup and failing to return it, the English

response was to attack the natives in force, burning the entire

community" down. [sH105]

 

*On the territory that is now Massachusetts the founding fathers of

the colonies were committing genocide, in what has become known as the

"Peqout War". The killers were New England Puritan Christians,

refugees from persecution in their own home country England.

 

*When however, a dead colonist was found, apparently killed by

Narragansett Indians, the Puritan colonists wanted revenge. Despite

the Indian chief's pledge they attacked.

 

Somehow they seem to have lost the idea of what they were after,

because when they were greeted by Pequot Indians (long-time foes of

the Narragansetts) the troops nevertheless made war on the Pequots and

burned their villages.

 

The puritan commander-in-charge John Mason after one massacre wrote

"And indeed such a dreadful Terror did the Almighty let fall upon

their Spirits, that they would fly from us and run into the very

Flames, where many of them perished ... God was above them, who

laughed his Enemies and the Enemies of his People to Scorn, making

them as a fiery Oven ... Thus did the Lord judge among the Heathen,

filling the Place with dead Bodies" men, women, children. [sH113-114]

*So "the Lord was pleased to smite our Enemies in the hinder Parts,

and to give us their land for an inheritance". [sH111].

 

*Because of his readers' assumed knowledge of Deuteronomy, there was

no need for Mason to quote the words that immediately follow

 

"Thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth. But thou shalt utterly

destroy them..." (Deut 20)

 

*Mason's comrade Underhill recalled how "great and doleful was the

bloody sight to the view of the young soldiers" yet reassured his

readers that "sometimes the Scripture declareth women and children

must perish with their parents". [sH114]

 

*Other Indians were killed in successful plots of poisoning. The

colonists even had dogs especially trained to kill Indians and to

devour children from their mothers breasts, in the colonists' own

words "blood Hounds to draw after them, and Mastives to seaze them."

(This was inspired by spanish methods of the time)

 

In this way they continued until the extermination of the Pequots was

near. [sH107-119]

 

*The surviving handful of Indians "were parceled out to live in

servitude. John Endicott and his pastor wrote to the governor asking

for 'a share' of the captives, specifically 'a young woman or girle

and a boy if you thinke good'." [sH115]

 

*Other tribes were to follow the same path.

 

*Comment the Christian exterminators "God's Will, which will at last

give us cause to say How Great is His Goodness! and How Great is his

Beauty!"

 

"Thus doth the Lord Jesus make them to bow before him, and to lick the

Dust!" [TA]

 

*Like today, lying was OK to Christians then. "Peace treaties were

signed with every intention to violate them when the Indians 'grow

secure uppon (sic) the treatie', advised the Council of State in

Virginia, 'we shall have the better Advantage both to surprise them, &

cutt downe theire Corne'." [sH106]

 

*In 1624 sixty heavily armed Englishmen cut down 800 defenseless

Indian men, women and children. [sH107]

 

*In a single massacre in "King Philip's War" of 1675 and 1676 some

"600 Indians were destroyed. A delighted Cotton Mather, revered pastor

of the Second Church in Boston, later referred to the slaughter as a

'barbeque'." [sH115]

 

*To summarize Before the arrival of the English, the western Abenaki

people in New Hampshire and Vermont had numbered 12,000. Less than

half a century later about 250 remained alive - a destruction rate of

98%. The Pocumtuck people had numbered more than 18,000, fifty years

later they were down to 920 - 95% destroyed. The Quiripi-Unquachog

people had numbered about 30,000, fifty years later they were down to

1500 - 95% destroyed. The Massachusetts people had numbered at least

44,000, fifty years later barely 6000 were alive - 81% destroyed.

[sH118] These are only a few examples of the multitude of tribes

living before Christian colonists set their foot on the New World. All

this was before the smallpox epidemics of 1677 and 1678 had occurred.

And the carnage was not over then.

 

*All the above was only the beginning of the European colonization, it

was before the frontier age actually had begun.

 

*A total of maybe more than 150 million Indians (of both Americas)

were destroyed in the period of 1500 to 1900, as an average two thirds

by smallpox and other epidemics, that leaves some 50 million killed

directly by violence, bad treatment and slavery.

 

*In many countries, such as Brazil, and Guatemala, this continues even

today.

 

 

More Notable Events in US history

 

*Reverend Solomon Stoddard, one of New England's most esteemed

religious leaders, in "1703 formally proposed to the Massachusetts

Governor that the colonists be given the financial wherewithal to

purchase and train large packs of dogs 'to hunt Indians as they do

bears'." [sH241]

 

*Massacre of Sand Creek, Colorado 11/29/1864. Colonel John Chivington,

a former Methodist minister and still elder in the church ("I long to

be wading in gore") had a Cheyenne village of about 600, mostly women

and children, gunned down despite the chiefs' waving with a white

flag 400-500 killed.

 

From an eye-witness account "There were some thirty or forty squaws

collected in a hole for protection; they sent out a little girl about

six years old with a white flag on a stick; she had not proceeded but

a few steps when she was shot and killed. All the squaws in that hole

were afterwards killed ..." [sH131]

 

*By the 1860s, "in Hawai'i the Reverend Rufus Anderson surveyed the

carnage that by then had reduced those islands' native population by

90 percent or more, and he declined to see it as tragedy; the expected

total die-off of the Hawaiian population was only natural, this

missionary said, somewhat equivalent to 'the amputation of diseased

members of the body'." [sH244]

 

http://notachristian.org/christianatrocities.html

[NinjaLite]

Ok, here is one more Rojak doctrine :

 

We wer given firstly the Law, follow by Grace. We can purely follow Law, nor can we purely follow Grace.

 

We shd follow mixture of Law and Grace..

 

Law for the Soul of man , and Grace for the Spirit of man.

 

Think abt it ..

 

Psa 19:7 onwards

[edwardlong]

Ok, here is one more Rojak doctrine :

 

We wer given firstly the Law, follow by Grace. We can purely follow Law, nor can we purely follow Grace.

 

We shd follow mixture of Law and Grace..

 

Law for the Soul of man , and Grace for the Spirit of man.

 

Think abt it ..

 

Psa 19:7 onwards

 

no wonder you are so confused

 

YK, if you really want to know more about Jesus, empty yourself of all your old thinking, that way you can see Jesus clearly.

 

[EddyMeng]

Ok, here is one more Rojak doctrine :

 

We wer given firstly the Law, follow by Grace. We can purely follow Law, nor can we purely follow Grace.

 

We shd follow mixture of Law and Grace..

 

Law for the Soul of man , and Grace for the Spirit of man.

 

Think abt it ..

 

Psa 19:7 onwards

 

The bible has this to say ...

 

Galatians 2:21 (The Message)

 

19-21What actually took place is this: I tried keeping rules and working my head off to please God, and it didn't work. So I quit being a "law man" so that I could be God's man. Christ's life showed me how, and enabled me to do it. I identified myself completely with him. Indeed, I have been crucified with Christ. My ego is no longer central. It is no longer important that I appear righteous before you or have your good opinion, and I am no longer driven to impress God. Christ lives in me. The life you see me living is not "mine," but it is lived by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I am not going to go back on that.

 

Is it not clear to you that to go back to that old rule-keeping, peer-pleasing religion would be an abandonment of everything personal and free in my relationship with God? I refuse to do that, to repudiate God's grace. If a living relationship with God could come by rule-keeping, then Christ died unnecessarily.

 

by the way ... the phrase "law man" was not invented by me 1st hor

[ChaoPuzzy1968]

*Catholic extermination camps

 

Surpisingly few know that Nazi extermination camps in World War II

were by no means the only ones in Europe at the time. In the years

1942-1943 also in Croatia existed numerous extermination camps, run by

Catholic Ustasha under their dictator Ante Paveliç, a practising

Catholic and regular visitor to the then pope. There were even

concentration camps exclusively for children!

 

In these camps - the most notorious was Jasenovac, headed by a

Franciscan friar - orthodox-Christian serbians (and a substantial

number of Jews) were murdered. Like the Nazis the Catholic Ustasha

burned their victims in kilns, alive (the Nazis were decent enough to

have their victims gassed first). But most of the victims were simply

stabbed, slain or shot to death, the number of them being estimated

between 300,000 and 600,000, in a rather tiny country. Many of the

killers were Franciscan friars. The atrocities were appalling enough

to induce bystanders of the Nazi "Sicherheitsdient der SS", watching,

to complain about them to Hitler (who did not listen). The pope knew

about these events and did nothing to prevent them. [MV]

 

*Catholic terror in Vietnam

 

In 1954 Vietnamese freedom fighters - the Viet Minh - had finally

defeated the French colonial government in North Vietnam, which by

then had been supported by U.S. funds amounting to more than $2

billion. Although the victorious assured religious freedom to all

(most non-buddhist Vietnamese were Catholics), due to huge

anticommunist propaganda campaigns many Catholics fled to the South.

With the help of Catholic lobbies in Washington and Cardinal Spellman,

the Vatican's spokesman in U.S. politics, who later on would call the

U.S. forces in Vietnam "Soldiers of Christ", a scheme was concocted to

prevent democratic elections which could have brought the communist

Viet Minh to power in the South as well, and the fanatic Catholic Ngo

Dinh Diem was made president of South Vietnam. [MW16ff]

 

Diem saw to it that U.S. aid, food, technical and general assistance

was given to Catholics alone, Buddhist individuals and villages were

ignored or had to pay for the food aids which were given to Catholics

for free. The only religious denomination to be supported was Roman

Catholicism.

 

The Vietnamese McCarthyism turned even more vicious than its American

counterpart. By 1956 Diem promulgated a presidential order which read

 

"Individuals considered dangerous to the national defense and common

security may be confined by executive order, to a concentration camp."

 

Supposedly to fight communism, thousands of buddhist protesters and

monks were imprisoned in "detention camps." Out of protest dozens of

buddhist teachers - male and female - and monks poured gasoline over

themselves and burned themselves. (Note that Buddhists burned

themselves in comparison Christians tend to burn others). Meanwhile

some of the prison camps, which in the meantime were filled with

Protestant and even Catholic protesters as well, had turned into

no-nonsense death camps. It is estimated that during this period of

terror (1955-1960) at least 24,000 were wounded - mostly in street

riots - 80,000 people were executed, 275,000 had been detained or

tortured, and about 500,000 were sent to concentration or detention

camps. [MW76-89].

 

To support this kind of government in the next decade thousands of

American GI's lost their life.

 

*Christianity kills the cat

 

On July 1, 1976, Anneliese Michel, a 23-year-old student of a teachers

college in Germany, died she starved herself to death. For months she

had been haunted by demonic visions and apparitions, and for months

two Catholic priests - with explicit approval of the Catholic bishop

of Würzburg - additionally pestered and tormented the wretched girl

with their exorcist rituals. After her death in Klingenberg hospital -

her body was littered with wounds - her parents, both of them

fanatical Catholics, were sentenced to six months for not having

called for medical help. None of the priests was punished on the

contrary, Miss Michel's grave today is a place of pilgrimage and

worship for a number of similarly faithful Catholics (in the

seventeenth century Würzburg was notorious for it's extensive witch

burnings).

 

This case is only the tip of an iceberg of such evil superstition and

has become known only because of its lethal outcome. [sP80]

 

*Rwanda Massacres

 

In 1994 in the small african country of Rwanda in just a few months

several hundred thousand civilians were butchered, apparently a

conflict of the Hutu and Tutsi ethnic groups.

 

For quite some time I heard only rumours about Catholic clergy

actively involved in the 1994 Rwanda massacres. Odd denials of

involvement were printed in Catholic church journals, before even

anybody had openly accused members of the church.

 

Then, 10/10/96, in the newscast of S2 Aktuell, Germany - a station not

at all critical to Christianity - the following was stated

 

"Anglican as well as Catholic priests and nuns are suspect of having

actively participated in murders. Especially the conduct of a certain

Catholic priest has been occupying the public mind in Rwanda's capital

Kigali for months. He was minister of the church of the Holy Family

and allegedly murdered Tutsis in the most brutal manner. He is

reported to have accompanied marauding Hutu militia with a gun in his

cowl. In fact there has been a bloody slaughter of Tutsis seeking

shelter in his parish. Even two years after the massacres many

Catholics refuse to set foot on the threshold of their church, because

to them the participation of a certain part of the clergy in the

slaughter is well established. There is almost no church in Rwanda

that has not seen refugees - women, children, old - being brutally

butchered facing the crucifix.

 

According to eyewitnesses clergymen gave away hiding Tutsis and turned

them over to the machetes of the Hutu militia.

 

In connection with these events again and again two Benedictine nuns

are mentioned, both of whom have fled into a Belgian monastery in the

meantime to avoid prosecution. According to survivors one of them

called the Hutu killers and led them to several thousand people who

had sought shelter in her monastery. By force the doomed were driven

out of the churchyard and were murdered in the presence of the nun

right in front of the gate. The other one is also reported to have

directly cooperated with the murderers of the Hutu militia. In her

case again witnesses report that she watched the slaughtering of

people in cold blood and without showing response. She is even accused

of having procured some petrol used by the killers to set on fire and

burn their victims alive..." [s2]

 

*As can be seen from these events, to Christianity the Dark Ages never

come to an end.

 

ref http://notachristian.org/christianatrocities.html

[dfthd]

I've been thinking of something lately:

 

First, imagine that a terrorist held you and a single loved one (wife, mother, brother, sister etc.) at gunpoint, and gave you the choice of who gets to live and who dies. Would you sacrifice yourself to save that person?

 

Then imagine that you and your family were held at gunpoint, and the hostage taker tells you that you either volunteer to die on behalf of your family, or your family dies (but not you). Would you sacrifice yourself?

 

Now, extend that to another scenario, where you are being taken hostage again, and now your family, as well as your friends are put in the same situation. Again, would you sacrifice yourself (bear in mind, your death would save more people than in the first scenario)?

 

Finally, imagine that you had the choice of either condemning all of humanity, past, present, and future, to damnation for eternity, or saving them with your life. Your sacrifice would span infinite time and space. Your single death would save an infinite number of people; among them people you love and care about. Compare it with the first example: what's so tough?

 

I'd go so far as to argue that anyone given the opportunity to do that, and NOT do it, would be reprehensible. Any Tom, ****, or Harry with any sense of morality would make the right choice. So, why is there a f*cking holiday over it?

[EddyMeng]

I've been thinking of something lately:

 

First, imagine that a terrorist held you and a single loved one (wife, mother, brother, sister etc.) at gunpoint, and gave you the choice of who gets to live and who dies. Would you sacrifice yourself to save that person?

 

Then imagine that you and your family were held at gunpoint, and the hostage taker tells you that you either volunteer to die on behalf of your family, or your family dies (but not you). Would you sacrifice yourself?

 

Now, extend that to another scenario, where you are being taken hostage again, and now your family, as well as your friends are put in the same situation. Again, would you sacrifice yourself (bear in mind, your death would save more people than in the first scenario)?

 

Finally, imagine that you had the choice of either condemning all of humanity, past, present, and future, to damnation for eternity, or saving them with your life. Your sacrifice would span infinite time and space. Your single death would save an infinite number of people; among them people you love and care about. Compare it with the first example: what's so tough?

 

I'd go so far as to argue that anyone given the opportunity to do that, and NOT do it, would be reprehensible. Any Tom, ****, or Harry with any sense of morality would make the right choice. So, why is there a f*cking holiday over it?

 

tank u 4 yr analogy ...

 

So let me put it this way ... GOD is the creator and we are his creation.

it will be like ... will you sacrifice yourselve for the salvation for all the ants in Singapore ???

 

will you ?

[dfthd]

tank u 4 yr analogy ...

 

So let me put it this way ... GOD is the creator and we are his creation.

it will be like ... will you sacrifice yourselve for the salvation for all the ants in Singapore ???

 

will you ?

 

Of course not. I think it'd be stupid. If I was god, I wouldn't even have a damn son and send him to earth to be sacrificed as part of my "plan".

 

And what's the big deal about dying and going back to heaven anyway? I'd like to see Jesus die and go to hell for eternity; that would be a REAL sacrifice.

[EddyMeng]

hope you will be laughing all the way then

[ChaoPuzzy1968]

I've been thinking of something lately:

 

First, imagine that a terrorist held you and a single loved one (wife, mother, brother, sister etc.) at gunpoint, and gave you the choice of who gets to live and who dies. Would you sacrifice yourself to save that person?

 

Then imagine that you and your family were held at gunpoint, and the hostage taker tells you that you either volunteer to die on behalf of your family, or your family dies (but not you). Would you sacrifice yourself?

 

Now, extend that to another scenario, where you are being taken hostage again, and now your family, as well as your friends are put in the same situation. Again, would you sacrifice yourself (bear in mind, your death would save more people than in the first scenario)?

 

Finally, imagine that you had the choice of either condemning all of humanity, past, present, and future, to damnation for eternity, or saving them with your life. Your sacrifice would span infinite time and space. Your single death would save an infinite number of people; among them people you love and care about. Compare it with the first example: what's so tough?

 

I'd go so far as to argue that anyone given the opportunity to do that, and NOT do it, would be reprehensible. Any Tom, ****, or Harry with any sense of morality would make the right choice. So, why is there a f*cking holiday over it?

 

I will show the terriost a platic spoon....

 

I will explain to them

 

1. first i will break the plastic spoon into 2

 

the sharp end will go up their ears and lodge into the temporal lope effectively criple his balance will leaving him alive.

 

2. next i will crush out the windpipe of 2 guy behind me with just a screw and a can.

 

3.return back to the 1st terroist i will use the left over part of the spoon and stab the 2lumdar from the skull effectively prevent him from squiming....

 

3. then with the first half spoon i will eat 1 eyeball using the scoop of the spoon...and showing piece of him as a meal so that the other eye could see me eating him....

 

4.of course i will eat only what's essential so that he wouldn't die.

 

Then i will be happy hunting.:hungry:

 

as for the friend who died they are going to heaven or hell , time up but ...it was the terriost who kill them....not me.

 

and for whatever**** rationale to negotiate with terrorist, vis-a-vis "sacrificing your life" that guys must be a moron(and do not even try to link it to christ sacrifice).you are depending on a terroist to keep their word.The only deterent is to let them know you are alive and and is a threat and capable of carrying out that threat.

 

as for giving up my life to be helpless, sori I am not that kind, i will come back to kill as many as possible.

 

but they had release a monster if they encounter me

 

BTW stop watching too many american film.......

[NinjaLite]

If a living relationship can be formed by rule-keeping then Christ wld have died in vain..

 

yes , yes , my point is d above verse applies to our Spirit connecting to GOD....

 

but then we hav Body, Spirit and Soul... Grace applies to the spirit..but the Law is needed for our soul (which is will, emotion) .... tis mayb why Jesus says He didnt come to replace the law,...meaning the law is still useful as per PSa 19:7 ..the law can revive the soul....

 

eg... its often said that wif Grace then there is no transgression... no Speed sign so to speak...and Law represents the speed sign..

 

but i think both Law and Grace is needed.... the speed sign marks the OB markers.... warnings that those r d limits which we under grace shdnt exceed....

 

 

As for Jesus death... we shd always b of grateful and thankful heart for the pain and suffering he willingly goes thru for our sake... why did He take 3 days to rise again from death...

 

i think no man can understand wat those 3 days ..how much suffering He goes thru.... eg my sins alone is more than a thousand death by stoning or cauldrons of fire...