Tire Pressure On Track

[stuzztrev]

Hi guys..I used to play track using CL2 bike.But now i change to 2B bike.Kr150. still new to it..E amount of pressure for tire is still unsure..went once to PG and ask some guys down there they told me to put to 22(front) 25(rear) by BAR reading..and it is not bad when i play.. so could anyone give me more info for any other pressure..thanks

[Ong_Lai]

normally its same presure front and rear.. i go track i use either 30 30 or 35 35

its individual feeling..

[LimHammett]

the softer the tires the more grip rite??

[stuzztrev]

Originally posted by Ong_Lai@January 13, 2007 03:49 am

normally its same presure front and rear.. i go track i use either 30 30 or 35 35

its individual feeling..

It should be individual comfort ba..if u're using 30front n 31rear and u could play well oso like tat.But individual weight also an issue..so do anyone noe's e pressure for 2B bike is around how much..

[5thRider]

Grip= Character- Fixed Drag= Personality- can be altered

 

Grip remains the same at all pressure settings since the tyre is already manufactured, nothing can be done to change the construction or compound. Tyre pressures affect DRAG. Setting Tyre pressures is just a means of extracting optimum performance from the tyre in a given situation and not WASTE any of the inherent GRIP the manufacturer intended for it.

 

There is no correct pressure setting per se, it can be situation dependant sometimes. So-called "Correct" would depend on: tyre construction, compound, rider preference, asphalt surface, weather, type of machine(125 or Super?), type of air( Nitrogen or atmospheric?) etc...

 

Generally for closed circuit use & using atmospheric air

In Pounds Per Square Inch(PSI):

 

125s-150s : Fr 23-25 Rr 24-26

400s : Fr 27-29 Rr 27-29

600s/Supers : Fr 29-32 Rr 28-32

 

Normal for me may be useless for you. Good luck in finding what works for you.

[LimHammett]

Originally posted by 5thRider@January 13, 2007 06:33 pm

Grip= Character- Fixed Drag= Personality- can be altered

 

Grip remains the same at all pressure settings since the tyre is already manufactured, nothing can be done to change the construction or compound. Tyre pressures affect DRAG, which is just a means to extract optimum performance from the tyre and not WASTE any of the inherent GRIP the manufacturer intended for it.

 

There is no correct pressure setting per se, it can be situation dependant sometimes. So-called "Correct" would depend on: tyre construction, compound, rider preference, asphalt surface, weather, type of machine(125 or Super?), type of air( Nitrogen or atmospheric?) etc...

 

Generally for closed circuit use & using atmospheric air

In Pounds Per Square Inch(PSI):

 

125s-150s : Fr 23-25 Rr 24-26

400s : Fr 27-29 Rr 27-29

600s/Supers : Fr 29-32 Rr 28-32

 

Normal for me may be useless for you. Good luck in finding what works for you.

thanks 5thRider..

 

that really made me understand about tyre pressures..

 

all along i tot softer tires, more contact wif the road, therefore more grip..

 

dunno about the DRAG thingy till now..

 

thanks!

[5thRider]

Originally posted by LimHammett@January 13, 2007 04:17 am

the softer the tires the more grip rite??

The softer the compound, the more grip a tyre has, does not always mean more traction though...

[LimHammett]

Originally posted by 5thRider@January 13, 2007 06:40 pm

The softer the compound, the more grip a tyre has, does not always mean more traction though...

ooohhh.. i see..

 

thanks duder!

 

[stuzztrev]

Originally posted by 5thRider@January 13, 2007 06:33 pm

Grip= Character- Fixed Drag= Personality- can be altered

 

Grip remains the same at all pressure settings since the tyre is already manufactured, nothing can be done to change the construction or compound. Tyre pressures affect DRAG. Setting Tyre pressures is just a means of extracting optimum performance from the tyre in a given situation and not WASTE any of the inherent GRIP the manufacturer intended for it.

 

There is no correct pressure setting per se, it can be situation dependant sometimes. So-called "Correct" would depend on: tyre construction, compound, rider preference, asphalt surface, weather, type of machine(125 or Super?), type of air( Nitrogen or atmospheric?) etc...

 

Generally for closed circuit use & using atmospheric air

In Pounds Per Square Inch(PSI):

 

125s-150s : Fr 23-25 Rr 24-26

400s : Fr 27-29 Rr 27-29

600s/Supers : Fr 29-32 Rr 28-32

 

Normal for me may be useless for you. Good luck in finding what works for you.

ok this is wat i wan.. thanks bro.

[Tourer]

Michelin manufacturers recommend 31 Front, and 29 Rear for track conditions on their tyres. (Yes, front has higher pressure according to them)

 

Don't know if climate temperature/condition affects optimum pressures for tyres though...

[5thRider]

Originally posted by tourer84@January 13, 2007 09:16 pm

Michelin manufacturers recommend 31 Front, and 29 Rear for track conditions on their tyres. (Yes, front has higher pressure according to them)

 

Don't know if climate temperature/condition affects optimum pressures for tyres though...

Front tyre should not have too low pressure as a "fuller" tyre allows for easier steering.

 

Yes, tyre pressures will also depend on weather and climate, but at our level...wet or dry settings enough to concentrate on.

[spiderman]

Originally posted by 5thRider@January 13, 2007 06:40 pm

The softer the compound, the more grip a tyre has, does not always mean more traction though...

Don lower pressured tyres have bigger contact patch? Bigger patch = more grip

of cos to a certain extend that the tyres dun deflate when cornering of cos.

[5thRider]

Originally posted by spiderman@January 14, 2007 12:02 am

Don lower pressured tyres have bigger contact patch? Bigger patch = more grip

of cos to a certain extend that the tyres dun deflate when cornering of cos.

Lower Pressure = Bigger Contact Patch = more DRAG = possibly, not always, More Traction,

of course like you said, up to a certain(optimum) point.

 

TRACTION does not equal GRIP. Good Traction is the OVERALL GOAL. This can change and is decided by adjusting suspension settings, bike geometry, tyre pressure, rider skill, TYRE GRIP..etc... Grip is a component of TRACTION, not the other way round( although a most PRIMARY one at that).

 

I.E. Super Grippy Tyres with poor suspensions , settings or otherwise = Poor Traction... e.g. bouncing everywhere, slding unneccessarily, poor line tracking, greasy feel..etc..

 

Maybe regular "track tyres" like M3 with superior setup or Susp. equipment will get you better Traction.

 

One of the reasons a better rider goes faster on IDENTICAL tyres than a slower guy is because he/she is smooth(rider skill) and upsets the bike less which gives you more TRACTION also.

 

GRIP CAN ONLY BE ALTERED BY CHANGING TYRES.

[stuzztrev]

Originally posted by 5thRider@January 14, 2007 10:01 am

Lower Pressure = Bigger Contact Patch = more DRAG = possibly, not always, More Traction,

of course like you said, up to a certain(optimum) point.

 

TRACTION does not equal GRIP. Good Traction is the OVERALL GOAL. This can change and is decided by adjusting suspension settings, bike geometry, tyre pressure, rider skill, TYRE GRIP..etc... Grip is a component of TRACTION, not the other way round( although a most PRIMARY one at that).

 

I.E. Super Grippy Tyres with poor suspensions , settings or otherwise = Poor Traction... e.g. bouncing everywhere, slding unneccessarily, poor line tracking, greasy feel..etc..

 

Maybe regular "track tyres" like M3 with superior setup or Susp. equipment will get you better Traction.

 

One of the reasons a better rider goes faster on IDENTICAL tyres than a slower guy is because he/she is smooth(rider skill) and upsets the bike less which gives you more TRACTION also.

 

GRIP CAN ONLY BE ALTERED BY CHANGING TYRES.

Thanks guys...but now i've change to riding CL2b bike for track...erm those reading u all mention 30+psi i tink is for CL2 rite..but 5th rider,wat u gave earlier on 23-25Front 24-26Rear is for track use rite?

[5thRider]

Originally posted by stuzztrev@January 14, 2007 12:09 pm

Thanks guys...but now i've change to riding CL2b bike for track...erm those reading u all mention 30+psi i tink is for CL2 rite..but 5th rider,wat u gave earlier on 23-25Front 24-26Rear is for track use rite?

Yes sir, track use only. Tyre pressure so low very difficult to ride on the street. Rear depends on what size you run... 130 and 150 would be quite different.

[stuzztrev]

Originally posted by 5thRider@January 14, 2007 12:59 pm

Yes sir, track use only. Tyre pressure so low very difficult to ride on the street. Rear depends on what size you run... 130 and 150 would be quite different.

thanks. but wats e PSI for road? you got PM

[NoLogicOne]

Charn,

 

Hilary here (Mark's fren). Got a question that was asked by my fren.....

 

He told me he read somewhere, "premium" pressure while tyre is hot and running in the circuit should be 36PSI, so what he suggest is to pit in and measure the tyre pressure after, say, 5laps or so, and adjust it accordingly. After track, when the tyres are cold, he would measure them again at cold temperature and that, accordingly to him is the right way to set pressure for track next time when tyres are cold.

 

Cannot really say I believe him or what, as there's some doubts....the 36PSI "premium" pressure, is it true? Got such things meh?

 

And even if this method holds some truth in it, I believe it's not easy for me to adopt as 1stly, my riding is not consistant, so sometimes I just cruise around only. Secondly, track temp is not always the same temp, but we could easily get an average temp.....

 

What do you have to comment about this Charn? Maybe you heard about this before.

 

[NoLogicOne]

Originally posted by stuzztrev@January 14, 2007 01:34 pm

thanks. but wats e PSI for road? you got PM

Try using the manufacturer recommended settings for your street pressure. Could adopt tyre maunfacturer or bike manufacturer.

 

Might not be useful, but an article posted under here shows some example of track and street pressure. I only adopt the street pressure. Track I would just set 31F-30R for my 750cc. So far so good.....any thing happens, it's mostly the rider, not the bike or tyres, like MingQuan said. I agree

 

 

 

[5thRider]

Originally posted by NoLogicOne@January 14, 2007 01:41 pm

Charn,

 

Hilary here (Mark's fren). Got a question that was asked by my fren.....

 

He told me he read somewhere, "premium" pressure while tyre is hot and running in the circuit should be 36PSI, so what he suggest is to pit in and measure the tyre pressure after, say, 5laps or so, and adjust it accordingly. After track, when the tyres are cold, he would measure them again at cold temperature and that, accordingly to him is the right way to set pressure for track next time when tyres are cold.

 

Cannot really say I believe him or what, as there's some doubts....the 36PSI "premium" pressure, is it true? Got such things meh?

 

And even if this method holds some truth in it, I believe it's not easy for me to adopt as 1stly, my riding is not consistant, so sometimes I just cruise around only. Secondly, track temp is not always the same temp, but we could easily get an average temp.....

 

What do you have to comment about this Charn? Maybe you heard about this before.

 

I am uncertain about specific "premium" pressures, only a range. But Mark's method is a good way to find out suitable tyre pressures from each individual track and behavior at varying surface temperatures.

 

What I do know is for 600-1000 (sorry to the rest, I'm only a rider). Assuming you use atmospheric air, tyre pressures FRONT and BACK will rise as the air expands after being on the circuit up to a certain point. This optimum(premuim?) level is usually around 35.5-37psi.

 

In 2006, I tested tyres for 3 different tyre importers at PG and these are some things we found out.

 

1. Yes. Mark is right. Set pressures when tyres completely cold. That means before you leave for the circuit, if you ride there. Try to make sure you use an accurate gauge, and to keep using the same one for consistency. Do not set them after you reach the circuit.

E.G. Say your base setting is 34psi. Ride to track, become 36psi. Target is 30psi, so you go ahead and release from 36psi to 30psi or you think "4psi right?",

36-4=32...simple! Not really, unless you know the exact volume of air in there...

 

 

34-30 = 4psi

36-30 = 6psi

36-32 = 4psi also leh... So same as setting from cold?

 

So now which is correct? To be sure ,only the 1st, the other 2, don't know...

It's only simple maths when you set from cold, it becomes physics when you choose to bring other factors in, so let's not.

If you must set at the track. Make sure your tyres are completely cooled(I'm told 2 hours, but never tested as I always set at home) back to at least 34psi before you set your track pressures. That in itself presents another problem, every time you check the pressure, you lose air... So set it at HOME!!! Metzeler Chief Tester recommends the same, "Completely cold please".

 

While race tyres can cool down very quickly, it's to help with dispersing heat to prevent over-heating, it still takes awhile to cool completely. Exactly how long? Good question, tell me when you find out.

 

2. Believe it or not, typical track tyre pressures 29-32psi will ALL rise to around 35-37psi. If they all rise to that mark then why set them so specifically? Reason is the starting point will determine things like how the tyre wears and how consistent the tyre is over 15 fast laps. So this base setting affects how the tyre performs when it reaches OPTIMUM levels of air pressure.

 

3. However,for me, the only reason why I would be checking for "heated tyre pressures" is if you intend to use nitrogen. As opposed to atmospheric air, Nitrogen is inert and does not expand so drastically like air when heated up. Hence, we would set "heated" tyre pressures immediately as you do not need to leave too much room for expansion.

So, you ride hard for 5laps or so, get your Spannerman to immediately check your pressures when you pit in and those are your target/estimated settings for that particular tyre when using nitrogen.

 

4. Whether you are consistent or not, cruising or attacking, tyre pressures will rise to about 35.5-37. Riding at a closed circuit, how slow can you be going? How gently can you be braking? In other words, imagine how often you are accelerating and braking hard? That itself will get the tyre up to temperature, other than the sides not scrubbed-in, the tyre is ready to be used hard.

 

5. In the end, there is no 1-size-fits-all pressure. Rider preference has a great influence over what to set, a rider may sacrifice consistency for out-right traction or choose to ride the bumps out rather than depend on the tyre... May also differ from different manufacturers and different makes. Experience helps alot so try to get a good mechanic whom you can get along with and is as interested in this area as you are...especially if you want to go racing...

 

Sorry for the long post. Can't find any way to shorten...

[Luciferwayne]

[TooToo7]

Read if don't understand, still don't understand. Read again.

 

 

[stuzztrev]

Originally posted by 5thRider@January 14, 2007 03:52 pm

I am uncertain about specific "premium" pressures, only a range. But Mark's method is a good way to find out suitable tyre pressures from each individual track and behavior at varying surface temperatures.

 

What I do know is for 600-1000 (sorry to the rest, I'm only a rider). Assuming you use atmospheric air, tyre pressures FRONT and BACK will rise as the air expands after being on the circuit up to a certain point. This optimum(premuim?) level is usually around 35.5-37psi.

 

In 2006, I tested tyres for 3 different tyre importers at PG and these are some things we found out.

 

1. Yes. Mark is right. Set pressures when tyres completely cold. That means before you leave for the circuit, if you ride there. Try to make sure you use an accurate gauge, and to keep using the same one for consistency. Do not set them after you reach the circuit.

E.G. Say your base setting is 34psi. Ride to track, become 36psi. Target is 30psi, so you go ahead and release from 36psi to 30psi or you think "4psi right?",

36-4=32...simple! Not really, unless you know the exact volume of air in there...

 

 

34-30 = 4psi

36-30 = 6psi

36-32 = 4psi also leh... So same as setting from cold?

 

So now which is correct? To be sure ,only the 1st, the other 2, don't know...

It's only simple maths when you set from cold, it becomes physics when you choose to bring other factors in, so let's not.

If you must set at the track. Make sure your tyres are completely cooled(I'm told 2 hours, but never tested as I always set at home) back to at least 34psi before you set your track pressures. That in itself presents another problem, every time you check the pressure, you lose air... So set it at HOME!!! Metzeler Chief Tester recommends the same, "Completely cold please".

 

While race tyres can cool down very quickly, it's to help with dispersing heat to prevent over-heating, it still takes awhile to cool completely. Exactly how long? Good question, tell me when you find out.

 

2. Believe it or not, typical track tyre pressures 29-32psi will ALL rise to around 35-37psi. If they all rise to that mark then why set them so specifically? Reason is the starting point will determine things like how the tyre wears and how consistent the tyre is over 15 fast laps. So this base setting affects how the tyre performs when it reaches OPTIMUM levels of air pressure.

 

3. However,for me, the only reason why I would be checking for "heated tyre pressures" is if you intend to use nitrogen. As opposed to atmospheric air, Nitrogen is inert and does not expand so drastically like air when heated up. Hence, we would set "heated" tyre pressures immediately as you do not need to leave too much room for expansion.

So, you ride hard for 5laps or so, get your Spannerman to immediately check your pressures when you pit in and those are your target/estimated settings for that particular tyre when using nitrogen.

 

4. Whether you are consistent or not, cruising or attacking, tyre pressures will rise to about 35.5-37. Riding at a closed circuit, how slow can you be going? How gently can you be braking? In other words, imagine how often you are accelerating and braking hard? That itself will get the tyre up to temperature, other than the sides not scrubbed-in, the tyre is ready to be used hard.

 

5. In the end, there is no 1-size-fits-all pressure. Rider preference has a great influence over what to set, a rider may sacrifice consistency for out-right traction or choose to ride the bumps out rather than depend on the tyre... May also differ from different manufacturers and different makes. Experience helps alot so try to get a good mechanic whom you can get along with and is as interested in this area as you are...especially if you want to go racing...

 

Sorry for the long post. Can't find any way to shorten...

5th rider,

 

So you're saying before u u shoot off to PG u already adjust e pressure ready? and if e psi shoot up?then if u can't wait for e tire to cool down as 2hrs is e timing for a tire to cool down..(too long).. So which is e prefer way of doing? thanks to clear my doubts.

[NoLogicOne]

Charn,

 

Thanks for clearing the doubts. If that's the case, nothing much to screw the brains out setting 30 or 31 PSI. I feel comfortable with 31 on both wheels, so I'll just stay with it.

 

But was surprised to learn about N2 application, setting it to the required pressure right away.

 

Anyways, nowadays I set my pressure at home before heading out, just like you. Save me time setting up the bike in PG too.

 

Thanks!

 

[NoLogicOne]

Originally posted by stuzztrev@January 15, 2007 12:58 pm

5th rider,

 

So you're saying before u u shoot off to PG u already adjust e pressure ready? and if e psi shoot up?then if u can't wait for e tire to cool down as 2hrs is e timing for a tire to cool down..(too long).. So which is e prefer way of doing? thanks to clear my doubts.

I guess what he meant is that, if you are to set your pressure before you even leave for PG, you tyres are likely to be completely cold since you have not even start to ride the bike for the day. So this is the best time to set the track cold pressure and even when you reach PG, you dun need to adjust the pressure anymore. You are all set to go, because you know you already set your track pressure back home when it is really cold.

 

You next adjustment likely would be before the next ride after you come back from track, back to road pressure.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong....

[stuzztrev]

Originally posted by NoLogicOne@January 15, 2007 03:31 pm

I guess what he meant is that, if you are to set your pressure before you even leave for PG, you tyres are likely to be completely cold since you have not even start to ride the bike for the day. So this is the best time to set the track cold pressure and even when you reach PG, you dun need to adjust the pressure anymore. You are all set to go, because you know you already set your track pressure back home when it is really cold.

 

You next adjustment likely would be before the next ride after you come back from track, back to road pressure.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong....

thanks..got a better picture..