parking offence

[yeokh]

There's no OK to park in pavement lol. Park in pavement of HDB area fine $20?(Rule 3: Parking Outside parking lot) Road is $70.

 

Thanks for that input. Will try to check on that Rule 3.

[yeokh]

Housing and Development Act, Section 27 states that the HDB, amongst other powers, is in charge of... "prohibiting or regulating the parking of vehicles on such common property or in such open spaces other than parking places". This essentially means that what the HDB says goes. So, I guess, if the HDB says it is illegal to park on pavements, then that has the force of the law.

 

Outside the jurisdiction of the HDB however, there seems to be no specific ruling against pavement parking.

 

Also, I am slightly puzzled about the role of the LTA in all this because I was warned by an LTA officer not to park on a pavement in a HDB heartland area. Is the officer acting on behalf of the HDB?

 

Anyway, I have submitted some written questions to the LTA, and am awaiting their reply.

[danielling1981]

Housing and Development Act, Section 27 states that the HDB, amongst other powers, is in charge of... "prohibiting or regulating the parking of vehicles on such common property or in such open spaces other than parking places". This essentially means that what the HDB says goes. So, I guess, if the HDB says it is illegal to park on pavements, then that has the force of the law.

 

Outside the jurisdiction of the HDB however, there seems to be no specific ruling against pavement parking.

 

Also, I am slightly puzzled about the role of the LTA in all this because I was warned by an LTA officer not to park on a pavement in a HDB heartland area. Is the officer acting on behalf of the HDB?

 

Anyway, I have submitted some written questions to the LTA, and am awaiting their reply.

 

Basically ur query can be answered by this.

 

2 guys fighting, u r not police, can u stop them? Yes u can.

 

Similarly, motorbike park in HDB heartlands, LTA officer will enforce the roads but seeing u doing something tat is wrong, can the LTA officer stop u? Yes he/she can. If u do not wan to move, yes he/she cannot summon u but can take picture or call the authorities to summon u. In fact, with the picture, the HDB authorities do not need to send any officers to summon u. =D

 

 

Ur statement of "Outside the jurisdiction of the HDB however, there seems to be no specific ruling against pavement parking.", i am assuming tat u mean places like shopping malls and maybe pavements tat r far from the HDB block.

 

Note that all public properties to a certain extent is under the jurisdiction of the authorities. So any officers, HDB, LTA, police, etc ve the right to stop u. They may not be able to issue u a summon as the scope may not be in their system but they can use the example i stated in the paragraph i wrote above.

 

As for shopping malls. The authorities of the shopping malls has the authorities to evict u from their premises. This includes motorbikes on pavements around the shopping mall. They can clamp ur vehicle and make u pay which is usually higher than the road fine. ^^

[yeokh]

Basically ur query can be answered by this.

 

2 guys fighting, u r not police, can u stop them? Yes u can.

 

Similarly, motorbike park in HDB heartlands, LTA officer will enforce the roads but seeing u doing something tat is wrong, can the LTA officer stop u? Yes he/she can. If u do not wan to move, yes he/she cannot summon u but can take picture or call the authorities to summon u. In fact, with the picture, the HDB authorities do not need to send any officers to summon u. =D

 

 

Ur statement of "Outside the jurisdiction of the HDB however, there seems to be no specific ruling against pavement parking.", i am assuming tat u mean places like shopping malls and maybe pavements tat r far from the HDB block.

 

Note that all public properties to a certain extent is under the jurisdiction of the authorities. So any officers, HDB, LTA, police, etc ve the right to stop u. They may not be able to issue u a summon as the scope may not be in their system but they can use the example i stated in the paragraph i wrote above.

 

As for shopping malls. The authorities of the shopping malls has the authorities to evict u from their premises. This includes motorbikes on pavements around the shopping mall. They can clamp ur vehicle and make u pay which is usually higher than the road fine. ^^

 

The LTA officer in question actually took down the particulars of the other motorbike that was parked along the pavement. I was lucky in that I attempted to park just as he came along. So he actually did more than just take pictures -- he was, presumably, issuing a parking ticket. I was just wondering whether he had the right to do so.

 

As for non-hdb/ura property, yes, the owners of the buildings have the right to decide on their parking regulations. In practice, pavement parking does not pose a problem here unless it causes obvious obstruction or elicit public complaints. Sometimes I see specific signs that says that parking along a particular pavement stretch is not permitted -- no problem, just park along another pavement stretch along the mall.

[danielling1981]

The LTA officer in question actually took down the particulars of the other motorbike that was parked along the pavement. I was lucky in that I attempted to park just as he came along. So he actually did more than just take pictures -- he was, presumably, issuing a parking ticket. I was just wondering whether he had the right to do so.

 

As for non-hdb/ura property, yes, the owners of the buildings have the right to decide on their parking regulations. In practice, pavement parking does not pose a problem here unless it causes obvious obstruction or elicit public complaints. Sometimes I see specific signs that says that parking along a particular pavement stretch is not permitted -- no problem, just park along another pavement stretch along the mall.

 

In response to ur 1st paragraph, firstly i assume the LTA officer took down the particulars of e other bike as in wrote the number plate on a piece of paper. Just to share with u, both LTA, HDB and the company assisting in issuing parking fines ve a hotline for public to call in and report offenders.

 

1) writing down number plate and report, (2) calling hotline to report, (3) LTA officer copy number plate to report, (4) "Insert any authority" officer copy number plate to report, (5) "insert any tom, **** and harry" copy/call number plate to report. (1) - (5) are all the same. If the LTA officer is directly using the system to summon, maybe the authorities ve finally improve their system to allow cross sharing of data and information, in this case summon illegal parking.

 

Even if the LTA officer is really issuing a summon. Wat's wrong? The bike/rider did something wrong (Read: Illegal). Assuming for a moment tat LTA is NOT the authorities to catch offenders parking on pavement, I doubt anyone can appeal base on the fact tat "I park on pavement but the issue summon is from LTA, i dun wan to pay". ^^

 

 

2nd paragraph. Whether u block, no block, waiting, pple wan walk u very nice shift bike, etc, etc, watever reason u may give. They can evict u or clamp u without notice without warning. In general sg system is quite nice in most cases whereby they will usually warn u first instead of immediate discipline action. And yes even if no specific signs warning against parking on pavement. Becoz there is a invisible line demarking the boundaries of where the shopping mall or any premises is in control of. Of coz the public again will not noe where is this line unless farther investigation.

 

 

I emphasize again. Even if u do not cause obstruction, the building management can still clam ur bike. End of story. Regardless of where u park ur bike, as long as it is not a parking lot, any authority, any tom, **** or harry can report u as long as evidence is provided. (Then the correct department will decide to issue summon or not)

 

PS: Since 4 years back, illegal parking report is very easy and hot already. Becoz i encounter a few cases my car kanna block and i research on how to report. The attendant usually will arrive within 15 min to summon.

 

PS2: U r right tat if no obstruction, usually still ok. I am just trying to get the facts right tat baseline is, parking anywhere not in a parking lot = illegal. (Pretty sure there r special cases but tat's not wat we r discussing. ^^)

[yeokh]

What's right or wrong, what's legal or illegal, is partly dependent on the culture and mentality of the people. In general, those who ride bikes are not very wealthy people and if free parking on pavements allows them to save some money, they should be allowed to do so. This is, of course, provided that they do not pose an appreciable obstruction to others. The law may want to be strict about this and insist that parking on pavements should always be disallowed. I don't think bikers should just accept this rather unreasonable stand. This is potentially one issue to raise with the relevant authorities.

 

In fact, in general, in non-HDB premises, the owners mostly turn a blind eye to pavement parking, especially if they do not provide bike lots in their car parks. Even if they do, sometimes making use of mutli-storey carparks could be rather hazardous, and it in fact makes more sense just to find a parking space on some pavement where one does not cause an appreciable obstruction to others.

[danielling1981]

What's right or wrong, what's legal or illegal, is partly dependent on the culture and mentality of the people. In general, those who ride bikes are not very wealthy people and if free parking on pavements allows them to save some money, they should be allowed to do so. This is, of course, provided that they do not pose an appreciable obstruction to others. The law may want to be strict about this and insist that parking on pavements should always be disallowed. I don't think bikers should just accept this rather unreasonable stand. This is potentially one issue to raise with the relevant authorities.

 

In fact, in general, in non-HDB premises, the owners mostly turn a blind eye to pavement parking, especially if they do not provide bike lots in their car parks. Even if they do, sometimes making use of mutli-storey carparks could be rather hazardous, and it in fact makes more sense just to find a parking space on some pavement where one does not cause an appreciable obstruction to others.

 

Agreed. I think ur post is a very fine point. Actually u ve miss 1 very impt point. In sg if u notice, there r a lot of laws and rules for everything. Even if some specific scenarios r not spelt out clearly, there will be a catch all phrase. But in case u ve not notice, e law is in fact very lenient towards minor offences.

 

Since u r concern about this pavement parking matter, i presume, u do it often? Then care to comment how many times u ve kanna summon? Ur post has also highlighted a impt point which is at most building authorities turn a blind eye especially areas which ve a high frequency of dispatch.

 

This blind eye includes areas of hdb, non hdb, private, public and almost anywhere for tat matter.

 

Fact remains tat sg is a country where land space is scarce, thus it is necessary for these rules. Usually when nothing happens, e "blind eye" syndrome will be apparent. It is when pple r inconsiderate then authorities will come.

 

I suspect ur case is not a daily or even common occurance. More likely it was a 1 off case. E point I'm trying to make is tat e laws and rules against pavement parking is in my opinion, here to stay. But in most areas, it is "allowed" becoz no comments ve been made. In fact some areas e building authorities in fact creates a space for official pavement parking. (shenton way area).

 

But in other areas, it is a strictly no. Eg: yishun 10, some foot complexes, etc. And e result is quite obvious. Just imagine if e pavement parking space at yishun 10 is made official? Just consider e amount of motorbikes tat would crowd there.

 

Assuming pavement parking is allowed, a issue tat will occur is overcrowding to e extent of motorcycles blocking each other and also blocking e walk ways to a certain extent. Then if there is emergency situation how? Maybe got injury or some major explosion, how to evacuate?

 

U may not ve seen situations where bike parking became uncontrollable and bikes block each other. If everyone can be considerate, this world will be a better place and i believe pavement parking will be legal. But sadly i do not believe in sg, e society can be considerate. Which is y there r these laws.

 

I personally c this bike parking problem almost every mon when i go for my rt. When i c tat e bikes lots r filled up i will make my way to somewhere farther. But for every 1 of me, there is 10 more tat will still insist on parking there and block others.

 

So if in sg pavement parking becomes legal, this problem will occur in some areas.

 

U may think tat this is unreasonable as there is more than enough space to park bikes. but imagine 1 fine day, an emergency occurs where a lot of ambulance, fire engine trucks, police cars r required. A lot of equipment needs to be pushed around. And there is bikes there blocking e way. How? This kind of situation though far fetch can happen anywhere.

[wait4me]

Ok... my questions may appear to be stupid, but I see bikes parked on pavements everyday and almost everywhere I go. I park on pavements often too but was recently warned by an LTA officer that it is illegal. So I read the Road Traffic Act, and there seems to be no mention that parking on pavements is illegal. But the Road Traffic Act is a very long document, so I may have missed some things there. Would appreciate if anyone can cite me the specific provision that states that pavement parking is illegal.

no , dun get me wrong , i wont use the word stupid , i just feel its a funny question coming out of a biker, if u are a non motorist i will understand

 

Mostly for convenience. Sadly some riders dun bother to be considerate and block other riders. Then problems will start lo. If only our society can grow to be more gracious.

 

 

 

Actually his question is valid. I do feel tat if there is space, y not allow parking. But sadly sg pple majority too busy/stress to spare a thought for others. If i ever need to park on pavement, i will make sure if got walker, they won't ve to put in too much effort to siam my bike. I will after parking, simulate walking myself to ensure. We riders can forgive riders but pure walkers or drivers less forgiving.

 

Sadly law is law. As to where is the section of the law, i'm unable to advise. Maybe can email tp? Btw, i think parking on pavement is a offence not under road traffic law. Depending on where, it may be under hdb, national parks or others.

 

PS: also depends on where the pavement is... really hard to determine for the public. But it is illegal no need say.

that is the reason even if have space they start charging, they cant stand it if we used the pavement , and prior to pavements, kids are runing around, and then parents complain and we complain why the parents dun look after the kids... as long as it causes a problem , the authories will come down hard..

jus like how the lta website gives u so much freedom for "feedback" this i heard at coffeeshop talk ,

bugger a told bugger b , if the noise of distubance continues , jus get the number plate and complain in LTA website and now, we all know why the enforcers are busy searching at our car parks for equipments and stuff that are deemed worse then road bullies and crazy drivers on the road

[wait4me]

btw what is considerate parking ?? i dun think that is any consideration at all ..

[danielling1981]

E below r some scenarios where i think we can be considerate.

 

1) if driving, after park take a look to ensure ur car is parked straight. This ensures ur car do not take up too much space to left or right. Becoz if u enroach into e next lot, then e next car will also likely enroach into e next lot, bla bla. Until later 1 lot will be too tight for fleasible parking. This happens alot in hdb carparks.

 

2) motorbike parking illegally. After parking try c if e bike at e inner most area can come out anot. If e bike on e inside cannot come just becoz of u choosing to park there, how would they feel? In fact how would u feel? And do not forget tat once u starting parking bikes in a blocking manner, high chance e next bike will ve e mentality, "e previous bike already block le, i block also nvm". So even if u r only parking for a short 5 minute, do consider tat e bikes tat follow ur pattern may not be short duration parking.

 

This also applies to cars parking illegally.

 

3) when in crowded carpark, it is common to see pple waiting at rows to pray for luck. Try to position ur car/bike in a way so as not to block other road users. Eg: try to keep to e side as much as possible.

 

4) especially for cars, if u found a lot an going to navigate into e lot, before u even slow down pls hazard lights first can? Driving fast or slow through e carpark and sudden e brake becoz u c lot is not funny. Everyone is also focus on looking for a lot thus e attention may not be tat much in front. Likewise if u r going to slowly "patrol" a area for lots, can also hazard light and keep to e side. Other road users may be leaving or heading to a different area of e carpark.

 

5) quite sure there r many other ways to be more considerate in parking or when in e carpark.

 

6) when u r walking to or from ur vehicle, pls keep ur focus on e road rather than on e phone or fren or partner. And also if group of frenz, dun walk like u own e carpark.

 

^^ pretty sure there r more ways to be considerate.

 

Ps: agree tat e carparks r as sickening as e roads now a days.

[wait4me]

E below r some scenarios where i think we can be considerate.

 

1) if driving, after park take a look to ensure ur car is parked straight. This ensures ur car do not take up too much space to left or right. Becoz if u enroach into e next lot, then e next car will also likely enroach into e next lot, bla bla. Until later 1 lot will be too tight for fleasible parking. This happens alot in hdb carparks.

 

2) motorbike parking illegally. After parking try c if e bike at e inner most area can come out anot. If e bike on e inside cannot come just becoz of u choosing to park there, how would they feel? In fact how would u feel? And do not forget tat once u starting parking bikes in a blocking manner, high chance e next bike will ve e mentality, "e previous bike already block le, i block also nvm". So even if u r only parking for a short 5 minute, do consider tat e bikes tat follow ur pattern may not be short duration parking.

 

This also applies to cars parking illegally.

 

3) when in crowded carpark, it is common to see pple waiting at rows to pray for luck. Try to position ur car/bike in a way so as not to block other road users. Eg: try to keep to e side as much as possible.

 

4) especially for cars, if u found a lot an going to navigate into e lot, before u even slow down pls hazard lights first can? Driving fast or slow through e carpark and sudden e brake becoz u c lot is not funny. Everyone is also focus on looking for a lot thus e attention may not be tat much in front. Likewise if u r going to slowly "patrol" a area for lots, can also hazard light and keep to e side. Other road users may be leaving or heading to a different area of e carpark.

 

5) quite sure there r many other ways to be more considerate in parking or when in e carpark.

 

6) when u r walking to or from ur vehicle, pls keep ur focus on e road rather than on e phone or fren or partner. And also if group of frenz, dun walk like u own e carpark.

 

^^ pretty sure there r more ways to be considerate.

 

Ps: agree tat e carparks r as sickening as e roads now a days.

u si beh on to type these.

 

i am jus saying for all the above you type , is showing consideration , but these things still happen , so there is still no consideration at all

[danielling1981]

u si beh on to type these.

 

i am jus saying for all the above you type , is showing consideration , but these things still happen , so there is still no consideration at all

 

Ya i didn't say our roads or carpark users are considerate. Majority r not but i hope u r not of the majority. I do my best to be considerate where possible becoz i believe in "Do not to others wat u dun wan done to u". Thankfully i do see 1 in 30~50 considerate cases both in carparks and on the roads.

 

Just wish to do my small tiny little part in an attempt to convert pple who bothers to read my post. ^^ then maybe can become a spreading effect no matter how tiny the effect will be. Convert 1 = 1 and tat's good enough for me.

[wait4me]

Ya i didn't say our roads or carpark users are considerate. Majority r not but i hope u r not of the majority. I do my best to be considerate where possible becoz i believe in "Do not to others wat u dun wan done to u". Thankfully i do see 1 in 30~50 considerate cases both in carparks and on the roads.

 

Just wish to do my small tiny little part in an attempt to convert pple who bothers to read my post. ^^ then maybe can become a spreading effect no matter how tiny the effect will be. Convert 1 = 1 and tat's good enough for me.

 

i also cant defend for myself if i am the majority even if i say i am not

[danielling1981]

i also cant defend for myself if i am the majority even if i say i am not

 

Dun think u r e majority ba. E fact tat u r here debating e issue shows at u r concern. Even if sometimes u r of e majority type, i believe most of e time u r e nice type.

[chili]

Parking at HDB service roads gets a fine of $100... Not $20... Even for motorcycles..